Screw that. I want him to start making single player RPGs again. The genre is rapidly decaying, and a new series with the depth and complexity of Ultimas IV-VII would be fantastic.
If only he could... EA owns all the rights to the series and the IP.
RG has nothing to show for many years, and his last work was a horrible flop.
Knowing how to make good SP RPGs in the 1990s, and making one early MMO .. again back in the 1990s .. does not translate into know-how of making a good modern 2012 game, MMO or not.
Making a game is not just having a few design ideas. There are lots of integration of ideas and technology, and management of large teams.
Knowing how to make good SP RPGs in the 1990s, and making one early MMO .. again back in the 1990s .. does not translate into know-how of making a good modern 2012 game, MMO or not.
More like 80s, his first RPG was Akalabeth released in 1980. Garriot's massive success spans over two decenies. How do you think he can afford space flight?
Making a game is not just having a few design ideas. There are lots of integration of ideas and technology, and management of large teams.
Tell that to the guy who made Minecraft... =P
Comments in the quote.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Richard Garriott has said that he doesn't like PVP, and we saw that with Tabula Rasa. He should stick to single player games since those Ultima RPGs were probably the only really difficult non-action rpgs.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now! I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
Actually, TR is the only game I still wish would come back, It was indeed a VERY GOOD game. The only reason it was shut down was legal actions between RG and NCSoft.
Richard Garriott has said that he doesn't like PVP, and we saw that with Tabula Rasa. He should stick to single player games since those Ultima RPGs were probably the only really difficult non-action rpgs.
If you watch the interview back in his UO days he has one of the "oh shit" moments where he realize what people could do with the tools he gave them.
I believe there are important unique qualities, which were a major part of Lord British Role Playing Games in the past, which must be continued into Lord British’s Ultimate Role Playing Game. What follows is the first couple shall and shall not’s, I shared with the team as we began our quest to make the Ultimate Role Playing Game.
Lord British’s Ultimate Role Playing Game WILL have: • Fully Developed Reality o Cultural History, Writing & Language o Logically constructed internally consistent fiction • Detailed World Interactions o Diverse objects respond to use, it is not a static world o Synchronous and asynchronous play mechanics o Persistent player housing directly on maps • Stories about current social issues and virtues o Reflect the players behavior to themselves – cause and effect in complex circumstances o You play as yourself, not an “alter ego”, akin to the gypsy test • Close relationship between developers and players o “Report thy feat to Lord British!” on major events, and LB will respond in person o “Idea Storm” Player Feedback and Design Participation, starting early and often • Free to play with kind asks for virality from non-payers • Available cloth maps, booklets & trinkets!
Lord British’s Ultimate Role Playing Game WILL NOT have: • It is NOT classic medieval fantasy Ultima / LotR / D&D o Not repeating the past Ultima / WoW, etc o No elves, dwarves and other overused aspects • It is NOT classic sci-fi ala Tabula Rasa o No space marines in generic flak suits with guns o Far too many sci-fi FPS games • It is NOT anime or Asian magic themes o Proven difficult to do right, and a niche • Thus, we hope to deliver a “fresher” yet familiar aesthetic (announced later)
I hope we can prove that we can make the spiritual successor to my/our previous work, remain true to what was important about those games, while delivering the game on diverse platforms and without high upfront cost or demand a subscription fees.
- Lord British
Above is a post from the thread on Stratics discussing his new game.
I should probably don a flame-retardant suit for this, but I can't wait to see what he is going to do with "Ultimate RPG". It seems like he doesn't want to make just another "-ville" clone. I guess the question is if he can pull of the ultima experience on this new media.
I believe there are important unique qualities, which were a major part of Lord British Role Playing Games in the past, which must be continued into Lord British’s Ultimate Role Playing Game. What follows is the first couple shall and shall not’s, I shared with the team as we began our quest to make the Ultimate Role Playing Game.
Lord British’s Ultimate Role Playing Game WILL have: • Fully Developed Reality o Cultural History, Writing & Language o Logically constructed internally consistent fiction • Detailed World Interactions o Diverse objects respond to use, it is not a static world o Synchronous and asynchronous play mechanics o Persistent player housing directly on maps • Stories about current social issues and virtues o Reflect the players behavior to themselves – cause and effect in complex circumstances o You play as yourself, not an “alter ego”, akin to the gypsy test • Close relationship between developers and players o “Report thy feat to Lord British!” on major events, and LB will respond in person o “Idea Storm” Player Feedback and Design Participation, starting early and often • Free to play with kind asks for virality from non-payers • Available cloth maps, booklets & trinkets!
Lord British’s Ultimate Role Playing Game WILL NOT have: • It is NOT classic medieval fantasy Ultima / LotR / D&D o Not repeating the past Ultima / WoW, etc o No elves, dwarves and other overused aspects • It is NOT classic sci-fi ala Tabula Rasa o No space marines in generic flak suits with guns o Far too many sci-fi FPS games • It is NOT anime or Asian magic themes o Proven difficult to do right, and a niche • Thus, we hope to deliver a “fresher” yet familiar aesthetic (announced later)
I hope we can prove that we can make the spiritual successor to my/our previous work, remain true to what was important about those games, while delivering the game on diverse platforms and without high upfront cost or demand a subscription fees.
- Lord British
Above is a post from the thread on Stratics discussing his new game.
I should probably don a flame-retardant suit for this, but I can't wait to see what he is going to do with "Ultimate RPG". It seems like he doesn't want to make just another "-ville" clone. I guess the question is if he can pull of the ultima experience on this new media.
I'm curious to see what he puts out. Maybe he will hit that sweet spot that takes the genre to a new level, but he might also fall on his face.
More like 80s, his first RPG was Akalabeth released in 1980. Garriot's massive success spans over two decenies. How do you think he can afford space flight?
Sure, Cujo, but what's Richard Garriot's track record since UO? UO was 1998-ish time frame. Almost 15 years ago. Tabula Rasa was his last prolific involvement with MMORPGs & RPGs. I will never fault Garriott for his past, overall accomplishments up to UO, and what he did for RPGs and MMORPGs in general. But let me be blunt though:
Lord British has been gone for more than 10 years now. He died with the 1990s.
If UO was the only thing he had made that might be somewhat persuasive. But Garriot made Akalabeth, Ultima 7, Ultima Underworld, Ultima Online.
He made an visionary RPG in every major era of RPG gaming.
The last 8-ish years RG was mostly being a manager and not hand on dev/designer. Even on TR. TR had a long history of various problems. The orginal development was completely different on the game.
I have no idea if he will ever make a good game again. But anyone who thinks he has no good input on RPGs is just shooting themselves in the foot. He is probably the most influential figure in CRPGs still alive (Gygax and Arnusen are dead).
You a Dev house like Blizzard has a major IP in Diablo (of which they don't even have the people who actually made the original working for them anymore) and that game basically ripped 70% of its gameply from rogue-like games.
The games Blizzard took their ideas from where heavily influenced by RG's games. Even the rogue-likes. Ultima 4-7 changed cRPGs forever.
Even if UO never existed EQ will still owe its existence to RG.
That people can just throw that kind of accomplishment out the window amazes me. He made his first few games at home as a hobby and packaged them in ziploc bags. You can't get more indie than how Akallabeth started.
Actually, Tabula Rasa did a lot of things better then even today most MMOs do.
It was not generic fantasy, it was not even generic sci-fi. It had shooter influences, so you have to give them credit to try to expand the genre. The combat system also took cover, stances etc. into account. It was a mix of dice rolling, auto-hit when using skills and real targetting, so clearly an innovation to simply pressing skills 1-10.
You could capture and lose outposts to "random" attacks (they weren't random, they repeated quite often, but still, it was not triggere by accepting a quest). While this had no long term impact, it was there. In every other game, if you do not actually defend something..nothing happens.
In fact, if you are not currently in your quest instance, nothing ever happens. And you can't really lose, if you die, you either start within the quest, so you can continue until all enemies are dead, or you have to restart the quest. But the town never falls, you can not take to long to bring some medicine etc.
Also, there was a quite good auction house (in terms of usabilty), and there was actually a player market. Classes were done slightly different, too, especially with the cloning system. Not terrible new, especially as many Asian MMOs feature tired classes.
If you compare it to the standard formula MMOs followed since EQ and even more so since WoW, it really was a clean slate. It was clearly not a carbon copy of those two, and it failing surely added to developers sticking to the formula.
It wasn't absolutely fantastic, it had enough problems on it own, like, a horrible perfomance in beta (imho, and from what i heard back then from others, especially ingame..), not having the auction house or another central hub to trade at start, the fall out of Garriot with NCSoft etc, but it wasn't bad either.
It would certainly been better seeing the influx of generic MMOs we get today, if it stayed around, even if you did not like it.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
More like 80s, his first RPG was Akalabeth released in 1980. Garriot's massive success spans over two decenies. How do you think he can afford space flight?
By selling out to EA?
It's definitely part of it, but to have something to sell, you first have to create it, and it has to be good or nobody will want it.
The money he earned during the 20 years before from the Ultima RPG series is definitely also part of it.
Originally posted by gestalt11
Originally posted by darwa
No, stay 'lost' as it were.
One trick pony as proven by Tabula Rasa and Facebook endeavours.
Next thread will be calling for the lovechild of Raph Koster and Garriot, probably with a bit of Vanilla Ice thrown in.....
Wow. Just wow. One trick pony. He made the most prolific and influential CRPG franchise of all time.
Some people may just be too young to remember that
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
One trick pony as proven by Tabula Rasa and Facebook endeavours.
Next thread will be calling for the lovechild of Raph Koster and Garriot, probably with a bit of Vanilla Ice thrown in.....
Wow. Just wow. One trick pony. He made the most prolific and influential CRPG franchise of all time.
Some people may just be too young to remember that
The sentence that seems to be giving you both difficulty explains that he did one thing well, THEN did Tabula Rasa and Facebook.
Incidentally, I'm plenty old enough to remember that. In fact, I'd already worked on four MUDs by the time UO was released; I was at Essex at the same time as Bartle. I'll spare you a lecture on why it's foolish to make assumptions, but please try not to do so in future.
One trick pony as proven by Tabula Rasa and Facebook endeavours.
Next thread will be calling for the lovechild of Raph Koster and Garriot, probably with a bit of Vanilla Ice thrown in.....
Wow. Just wow. One trick pony. He made the most prolific and influential CRPG franchise of all time.
Some people may just be too young to remember that
The sentence that seems to be giving you both difficulty explains that he did one thing well, THEN did Tabula Rasa and Facebook.
Incidentally, I'm plenty old enough to remember that. In fact, I'd already worked on four MUDs by the time UO was released; I was at Essex at the same time as Bartle. I'll spare you a lecture on why it's foolish to make assumptions, but please try not to do so in future.
Then it's even worse, because you complely ignore the 20 years during which Garriot revolutionned the CRPGs, notably with Ultima IV-VII... but I guess bashing successful people or things is fun, bashing Garriot, bashing WoW, etc...
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
One trick pony as proven by Tabula Rasa and Facebook endeavours.
Next thread will be calling for the lovechild of Raph Koster and Garriot, probably with a bit of Vanilla Ice thrown in.....
Wow. Just wow. One trick pony. He made the most prolific and influential CRPG franchise of all time.
Some people may just be too young to remember that
The sentence that seems to be giving you both difficulty explains that he did one thing well, THEN did Tabula Rasa and Facebook.
Incidentally, I'm plenty old enough to remember that. In fact, I'd already worked on four MUDs by the time UO was released; I was at Essex at the same time as Bartle. I'll spare you a lecture on why it's foolish to make assumptions, but please try not to do so in future.
Then it's even worse, because you complely ignore the 20 years during which Garriot revolutionned the CRPGs, notably with Ultima IV-VII... but I guess bashing successful people or things is fun, bashing Garriot, bashing WoW, etc...
More assumptions. Heh. Now I understand. You were trolling. I didn't realise.
I just played UO again recently, and prefer the 2d client...I would be thrilled if they put out an official classic server and kept with the original design/content feel and developed new content...Not exactly UO2, but I would play it.
The last 6+ years of mmos have been missing depth imo.
More assumptions. Heh. Now I understand. You were trolling. I didn't realise.
Carry on, but I won't play your game.
Assumptions? I've read your posts (and just reread them all to be sure I didn't miss something), and you focus on UO and Tabula Rasa, ignoring the 20 years of work he did before UO. Your "one trick pony" comment is just... well, it's just wrong.
Who is trolling? I wonder...
Oh, and tell me, is Mozart no longer a genius just because his last work dates from centuries ago? (not really comparing Garriot to Mozard, but you get the point).
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Oh, and tell me, is Mozart no longer a genius just because his last work dates from centuries ago? (not really comparing Garriot to Mozard, but you get the point).
Genius is as much of an exaggeration as one-trick pony is. They're just opposite sides of the same Hyperbolic coin.
If Garriot had done all of his early work entirely alone; maybe you could give him sole credit for everything with his name appeared on. But that still wouldn't get him a job after his (much more recent) failures to produce commercial success.
The comparison to Koster's unpaid PR team isn't out of line.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
The genius part was related to Mozart, and not Garriot - as I explicitely said in my post in the part saying "I'm not really comparing..."... I just mean that past achievements don't disapear magically with time. Also, the gaming history of Garriot, him creating the detailled world of the Ultima series, lead to the oldest successful mainstream MMORPG of history, UO. ,17+ years, and counting.
Arguing on the Internet...
I'm no Garriot "fanboi" at all btw... but I'm also a developer, and I also started in the 80s. I see what he achieved, and I doubt anyone posting here of similar age achieved more than him. That's called "respect", something that gets lost lately.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I just mean that past achievements don't disapear magically with time.
So put yourself in the human resources spot--would you roll the dice and hire him?
I certainly wouldn't.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Comments
If only he could... EA owns all the rights to the series and the IP.
And they're not on good terms...
RG has nothing to show for many years, and his last work was a horrible flop.
Knowing how to make good SP RPGs in the 1990s, and making one early MMO .. again back in the 1990s .. does not translate into know-how of making a good modern 2012 game, MMO or not.
Making a game is not just having a few design ideas. There are lots of integration of ideas and technology, and management of large teams.
Comments in the quote.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Ultima Online 2
What the future of MMOs should have been.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Richard Garriott has said that he doesn't like PVP, and we saw that with Tabula Rasa. He should stick to single player games since those Ultima RPGs were probably the only really difficult non-action rpgs.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
Actually, TR is the only game I still wish would come back, It was indeed a VERY GOOD game. The only reason it was shut down was legal actions between RG and NCSoft.
www.90and9.net
www.prophecymma.com
If you watch the interview back in his UO days he has one of the "oh shit" moments where he realize what people could do with the tools he gave them.
rofl
I just... hahahahahhah... lol
Above is a post from the thread on Stratics discussing his new game.
I should probably don a flame-retardant suit for this, but I can't wait to see what he is going to do with "Ultimate RPG". It seems like he doesn't want to make just another "-ville" clone. I guess the question is if he can pull of the ultima experience on this new media.
I'm curious to see what he puts out. Maybe he will hit that sweet spot that takes the genre to a new level, but he might also fall on his face.
By selling out to EA?
No, stay 'lost' as it were.
One trick pony as proven by Tabula Rasa and Facebook endeavours.
Next thread will be calling for the lovechild of Raph Koster and Garriot, probably with a bit of Vanilla Ice thrown in.....
If UO was the only thing he had made that might be somewhat persuasive. But Garriot made Akalabeth, Ultima 7, Ultima Underworld, Ultima Online.
He made an visionary RPG in every major era of RPG gaming.
The last 8-ish years RG was mostly being a manager and not hand on dev/designer. Even on TR. TR had a long history of various problems. The orginal development was completely different on the game.
I have no idea if he will ever make a good game again. But anyone who thinks he has no good input on RPGs is just shooting themselves in the foot. He is probably the most influential figure in CRPGs still alive (Gygax and Arnusen are dead).
You a Dev house like Blizzard has a major IP in Diablo (of which they don't even have the people who actually made the original working for them anymore) and that game basically ripped 70% of its gameply from rogue-like games.
The games Blizzard took their ideas from where heavily influenced by RG's games. Even the rogue-likes. Ultima 4-7 changed cRPGs forever.
Even if UO never existed EQ will still owe its existence to RG.
That people can just throw that kind of accomplishment out the window amazes me. He made his first few games at home as a hobby and packaged them in ziploc bags. You can't get more indie than how Akallabeth started.
Richard who? Did he work on WoW?
http://www.youtube.com/flymolo
Wow. Just wow. One trick pony. He made the most prolific and influential CRPG franchise of all time.
Actually, Tabula Rasa did a lot of things better then even today most MMOs do.
It was not generic fantasy, it was not even generic sci-fi. It had shooter influences, so you have to give them credit to try to expand the genre. The combat system also took cover, stances etc. into account. It was a mix of dice rolling, auto-hit when using skills and real targetting, so clearly an innovation to simply pressing skills 1-10.
You could capture and lose outposts to "random" attacks (they weren't random, they repeated quite often, but still, it was not triggere by accepting a quest). While this had no long term impact, it was there. In every other game, if you do not actually defend something..nothing happens.
In fact, if you are not currently in your quest instance, nothing ever happens. And you can't really lose, if you die, you either start within the quest, so you can continue until all enemies are dead, or you have to restart the quest. But the town never falls, you can not take to long to bring some medicine etc.
Also, there was a quite good auction house (in terms of usabilty), and there was actually a player market. Classes were done slightly different, too, especially with the cloning system. Not terrible new, especially as many Asian MMOs feature tired classes.
If you compare it to the standard formula MMOs followed since EQ and even more so since WoW, it really was a clean slate. It was clearly not a carbon copy of those two, and it failing surely added to developers sticking to the formula.
It wasn't absolutely fantastic, it had enough problems on it own, like, a horrible perfomance in beta (imho, and from what i heard back then from others, especially ingame..), not having the auction house or another central hub to trade at start, the fall out of Garriot with NCSoft etc, but it wasn't bad either.
It would certainly been better seeing the influx of generic MMOs we get today, if it stayed around, even if you did not like it.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
It's definitely part of it, but to have something to sell, you first have to create it, and it has to be good or nobody will want it.
The money he earned during the 20 years before from the Ultima RPG series is definitely also part of it.
Some people may just be too young to remember that
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
The sentence that seems to be giving you both difficulty explains that he did one thing well, THEN did Tabula Rasa and Facebook.
Incidentally, I'm plenty old enough to remember that. In fact, I'd already worked on four MUDs by the time UO was released; I was at Essex at the same time as Bartle. I'll spare you a lecture on why it's foolish to make assumptions, but please try not to do so in future.
Then it's even worse, because you complely ignore the 20 years during which Garriot revolutionned the CRPGs, notably with Ultima IV-VII... but I guess bashing successful people or things is fun, bashing Garriot, bashing WoW, etc...
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
More assumptions. Heh. Now I understand. You were trolling. I didn't realise.
Carry on, but I won't play your game.
I just played UO again recently, and prefer the 2d client...I would be thrilled if they put out an official classic server and kept with the original design/content feel and developed new content...Not exactly UO2, but I would play it.
The last 6+ years of mmos have been missing depth imo.
Assumptions? I've read your posts (and just reread them all to be sure I didn't miss something), and you focus on UO and Tabula Rasa, ignoring the 20 years of work he did before UO. Your "one trick pony" comment is just... well, it's just wrong.
Who is trolling? I wonder...
Oh, and tell me, is Mozart no longer a genius just because his last work dates from centuries ago? (not really comparing Garriot to Mozard, but you get the point).
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Genius is as much of an exaggeration as one-trick pony is. They're just opposite sides of the same Hyperbolic coin.
If Garriot had done all of his early work entirely alone; maybe you could give him sole credit for everything with his name appeared on. But that still wouldn't get him a job after his (much more recent) failures to produce commercial success.
The comparison to Koster's unpaid PR team isn't out of line.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
The genius part was related to Mozart, and not Garriot - as I explicitely said in my post in the part saying "I'm not really comparing..."... I just mean that past achievements don't disapear magically with time. Also, the gaming history of Garriot, him creating the detailled world of the Ultima series, lead to the oldest successful mainstream MMORPG of history, UO. ,17+ years, and counting.
Arguing on the Internet...
I'm no Garriot "fanboi" at all btw... but I'm also a developer, and I also started in the 80s. I see what he achieved, and I doubt anyone posting here of similar age achieved more than him. That's called "respect", something that gets lost lately.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
So put yourself in the human resources spot--would you roll the dice and hire him?
I certainly wouldn't.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.