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Nerf incoming?
xalvi
Member Posts: 329
in Guild Wars 2
2. What are some of the main things you'll be working on for BWE 3?
Chris: Interesting question. As you know we have not announced a BWE3 [ed. note: Developers actually confirmed that there will be a third Beta Weekend Event in a Reddit Q&A just prior to BWE 2] so I will answer in the context of our continued work-to-launch readiness.
Aside from the areas listed above, we are doing some work on melee vs. ranged balancing (across the game) as well as finishing off a handful of core systems and features, based on the feedback we received from the previous event. We also have a few new things to show off!
Anyone else see a nerf coming for melees? Warriors perhaps? I saw lots of complaints on the beta forums about warriors being too strong, too much survivability wa wa. So is it just me or the warriors and not the ranged classes will get a nerf. Dont get me started if they are nerfing the guardians (once again) that will make me nerdrage.
p.s- is the stress test on june 27 considered to be a beta event?
Comments
I wouldn't call it a nerf since the game isn't even released yet. Sounds more to me like they are attempting to balance everything before release according to test data to avoid having to buff/nerf too much once they do release.
How does one even die to Warrior during the BWE, unless of course people actually went into pvp with power builds, because for some dumb reason they thought power was important in GW2.
so you thought that warriors having high armor, one of the highest HPs and some of the highest Burst was balanced? let me guess you play a warrior?
I expect that for some it will be a buff, for others a nerf, and still others won't notice.
Stress test is not considered a BWE - usually just involves server side and performance changes - plus this one is only scheduled for 4 hours.
Ummm, no. I would imagine melee will get a buff, not ranged. Are you serious? Ranged >>> Melee in PvP in pretty much every situation except 1 on 1. WvWvW, melee is basically 100% worthless.
They need to worry less about nerfing and more about AoE stacking and spam in PvP. Ranged combat should be doing considerably less damage than melee, which already seems to be the case for the most part. We will see what happens, but things seem relatively balanced. There might be a few things here and there, but it is getting closer.
And based on past BWE's and stress test to follow, no, the stress test doesn't count as a BWE ... it isn't even on a weekend and is during "work hours". Not sure how much stress they will be getting on the servers at that time, but whatever.
This doesn't really count as a beta event, it really is a stress test. 4 hour window for them to keep an eye on their servers and go through their logs to prepare for launch.
On their twitter page, they stated that it will be the same build as the last beta weekend. So there shouldn't be any nerfs/changes on the 27th.
On a side note: They're going to end this test with the same event that they used for BWE2. I missed that, but I guess it was transforming players into large monsters, who then had to convert more players? Should be interesting.
Seems like you are mad, or was killed by a warrior. Your post shows me how you dont know anything about GW2, its more about dodging/weapon swaping/skills/weapon sets that determine your play style not highest hp and your silly comment "highest burst" that is wrong on so many levels.
No i do not play a warrior, i play a guardian but nice try.
You do realize warriors can crit for like 16k+ with Eviscerate right? They do have probably some of the highest burst I have seen in game, besides maybe Theif. Then again, many glass cannon builds can probably achieve this, I just haven't seen many videos on it.
Personally, I don't think anyone should be able to be hitting that hard ever :P
Considering how much complaining there is about how weak all melee builds are, I don't think warriors are getting substantial nerfs. I won't be TOO surprised if a couple of the f1 skills get some tweaks, , but overall I think the point is to make melee more attractive to players, not less.
Ya i agree, but didnt they fix warriors burst with BWE2? The problem with that is its a glass cannon spec, you wont survive for so long lol (from my expierence i felt like a thief on terms of squishyness), trust me i have tried that i did have high crits but i didnt crit for 16k
I didn't really like building glass cannon when I played sPvP. It didn't serve me any good to do so, and I could get pretty good damage from a more balanced build that could stay in the fight for longer.
In fact, theoretically speaking, glass cannons aren't too hard to counter with blocks blinds, dazes, stuns, immobolizes, fears, KDs, KBs, dodges and kiting, or whatever it is you choose to use to survive longer. It is far harder to fight the hard hitting moderately tough DPS, than the soft and squishy burster, at least in 1v1. When multiple people work together, it really depends more on how well they work together and how they choose to fight than any specific method of buildcrafting.
Also, while there will most undoubtably be more incoming changes in terms of balancing, i do not sense that melee is going to get nerfed in general.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
Not sure, I didn't try my warrior this BWE, but was doing some crazy crits last time in the PvP area. Sure, you will die easily, but if you can almost 1 shot people, who cares about HP?
I will try to check the patch notes on changes, I don't remember seeing anything though.
EDIT: And all of the YouTube videos I have tried to found seem to be from the past BWE, so maybe it was fixed recently?
Warriors can still crit super high with eviscerate within a VERY short amount of time, so getting 2 off in the span of 10-15 seconds of eachother is still achievable. My problem isn't with the ability, it's with the fact that it's on a ONE-HANDER. Makes absolutely no sense to me seeing as how they can run around with a shield and get another form of hard cc just from that. Put eviscerate on a 2-hander and I'll be happy.
That said, Thieves got a HUGE nerf due to the trait tiering in BWE2, as did other classes, but it hurt them a lot. We used to be able to achieve insane burst in the first BWE with our steal>stealth>backstab combo with weapon swaps triggering our sigils, can't do that anymore sadly. This trait tiering actually took viable builds out and made only 2 "cookie-cutter" builds viable, kinda back-fired on ANet. Good news is that they realize this and are looking into adding more traits per line so hopefully we'll see some more builds come up for every class.
So back to the main topic, no, I don't think melee will get nerfed because it's the last thing that needs it.
Comparing the trait specs from BWE1 and BWE2 i can say that in BWE2 they nerfed that damage by an incredible amount i dont think warriors crit like that anymore, if anything thiefs could. I have seen youtube vids of people still owning, but imo id rather have melee be buffed more than ranged because there were losts of ele/nerco during BWE2 imagine on launch how many will be elementilists
FYI to those ranged flaming posts before: like the person said, it easy to dodge/LoS melees in GW2 with high damage so dont complain if you cant do it
Range vs Melee is fine. I played a ranged mesmer (no broken Unload), a ranged theif (p/p) and a Rifle warrior and I pooped all over melee. If anything I thought range was overpowered.
No warrior that focused on damage had high hp that I saw, and the ones that crit for 10k+ were incredibly squishy.
However, I think a lot of what we're seeing is: BWE1, no one really adapted, most melees played like crap, complained that the game was too hard. Some learned how to play and did fine - yes there was a drawback to playing melee, for that big melee damage you had to be on your toes to survive melee.
By BWE 2, melee had been tweaked + more people apparently bothered learning how to play or just got the hang of melee so (to me anyway) it seemed way too easy. This is on my melee ranger, as although I prefer range it's hard to justify sacrificing the damage you lose for going ranged when melee is so insanely safe now.
As for glass cannon warriors, I just assume every warrior is spec'd that way and fight them accordingly. People complain about warriors yet I've been able to replicate that burst on my rogue and ranger (my rangers rapid fires starting at 4k and finishing at 10k+ is a lot of damage in just a few seconds, here's the last tick http://i.imgur.com/tyHFD.jpg ), and there are video examples of other classes pulling similar numbers.
I personally don't care one way or another as I've been able to put together powerful builds on everything I've tried and have never once felt any one class had an advantage over another. I'm more concerned about how stupidly safe PvE melee has become.
Like many have said they are in Beta and do class balancing hardly qualifies as a nerf. The only point of having BWE's is to find bugs and inblances and fix them. Kind of upsets me people are getting pissed at that.
I dont think anyone is getting mad, execpt the 2 flammers that stated warriors have high hp/burst damage and the other one which i cant remember. We are just wondering which style will get the "nerf" (nerf is a nerf, beta or not) we are all talking about in beta which class will get balanced or not.
Brace yourselves!!! nerfs are coming!!!
Ok, seriously now, classes and skills will be nerfed, and other classes and skill will be buffed, both from now and until release, and past release. It's just the nature of on-going class balance on MMOs. One good thing, though, from what I've read skills and attributes will work differently whether they're used in PvE or PvP, so we hopefully will see them adjusted separatedly and we won't see what happens on other games where some classes that aren't too strong in PvE get nerfed because they're too strong in PvP.
And BTW... the main complains I remember seeing on forums seemed to be towards ranged being too strong, as in, too easy to kite a melee char and no real reason to use melee in open world boss encounters.
What can men do against such reckless hate?
GS with very low CD hundred blades + quickness + lot of CC is what make warrior OP.
no you dont need have a canon glass build warrior to do insane damage with warrior, in BW2 you still could hit like crazy with that combo. reason why every 90% that i saw on sPvP have a GS.
dodge bla bla bla, you cant dodge all CC warriors have.
warrior trow bolas you dodge, he apply next bull charge, you are down use frenzy and hundred blades, you are almost dead even with 1,5k toughness.
if for some reason he miss bolas, charge bull he still have sword and is Flurry to make 4s immobilize with very low CD. ya, dodge all of that.
the problem isnt all CC warrior have, they need to have that, the problem is combined that with a very powerfull skill (HB) with very low CD and frenzy
So is dagger/dagger Elementalist considered ranged or melee? I'm not sure which group I should be rooting for as far as nerfs or buffs. But either way, I hope dagger/dagger gets a buff so I can run around and not feel like a second class Elementalist compared to the ubiquitous staff variant.
Depends on the build. Power works best in some cases and Precision works better in others.
With regards to nerfing, they'll probably be nerfing certain abilities across the board on both melee and ranged classes. Warriors are probably going to see the damage reduced on their adrenaline based skills, eviscerate is probably going to be hit hardest.
This is not a game.
Let's just agree that we're all horribly biased and that the devs have far more data to base their opinions on than we do with our limited, entitled experiences.
When you get knocked down by bull's charge you should use a stun breaker (you will have to scroll down to see the skills that break stun) this will make you stand up from the knockdown and you can dodge away.
Immobilize is a condition so using condition removal skills will also take care of that.
This is not a game.
I find it depends on your build and who you are fighting. I played a Condition damage melee Ranger for a time in BWE2 and I ran through a lot of people even other melee and then I played a condition damage ranged mesmer and I also ran through a lot of people. But then I played a melee power based warrior (Hammer and Mace + Warhorn) that spent all his time spamming weakness and I could not kill ANYTHING. It was like I was hitting bricks when earlier I could rip through people with a sword and shield build.
So yea, it depends on the build and the people you encounter.
This is not a game.