1) What is the life span of an console FPS? One year, perhaps two, or until the next Call Of Duty comes out.
2) Who plays FPSes on a console? Kids and people who are new to gaming.
2b) Who plays FPSes with a console controller?
Given the above why would you then develop an FPS on a console that you want to link to your PC game?
Who are you target audience? You want Eve players to communicate with Dust players, no? Eve has big corps and alliances, they are experienced and seriuos gamers, who in the FPS world are similar? Definitely not console FPS players. Think FPS clans on the PC.
If I was at CCP and was tasked with making an FPS to link to Eve, I would immediately think of targeting all the dedicated FPS players on the PC, you know, the ones that buy hyper-sensitive mice and £30 mouse mats. The ones that will play a good FPS game for years and years. Already established FPS clans that play with purpose.
I would look at the success of PlanetSide and make Dust a similar but better experience, a squad based FPS with vehicles as well as rpg elements of classes and skills etc,etc..
You got to wonder how CCP got this so wrong, were they enticed by perhaps the promise of big payout for producing a console game? If they produced an awesome squad based FPS with RPG elements then they could actually charge a sub for it as does Planetside or allow the payment of one sub that allows access to both Eve and Dust, thus bringing in more people to Eve and still make a buck at the same time.
You guys will have to get your hands on the game as well but... yea... it needs a little more something.
That's what I'm afraid of. We all know CCP can do a hell of an mmoRPG, but a shooter? Are they really big shooter fans? Do they have any idea what they're doing in that area? I have no idea, but they're going to have some major competition, and the playerbase they're targetting doesn't care about EVE, they'll just play whichever shooter is the most fun.
Fingers are still crossed, but for me, the first red flag is that they're trying to sell cash shop content now, based on hype, before the game releases, before people have a chance to be disappointed. Doesn't prove anything, but it's just not a good sign..
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Besides Dust PS3 players wanting an mmofps feel have Mag (which I heard wasnt incredibly special) and maybe a few others. I dont think Dust 514 will just dominate the PS3 FPS fans, but PS3 owners will dabble and many will probably play it regularly. Only because the lack of other options.
I ended up selling my ps3, but the entire time I had it MAG was the only game I thought was worth a damn at the time.
I did play Uncharted, and Resistance, and all the other fanboy titles and I didn't think any of them were too good, but MAG was amazing and I am quite honestly surprised it didn't do better. I didn't play at launch though, so it is possible that like every MMO ever released it had a shitty launch.
1st of all. the game is F2P, there is no box price. 2nd of all there are already lots of poeple on PS3 who are excited about dust so there is plenty of interest in the game. The game has already gotten all of the MAG community as well as a large portion of the Killzone and BF community onboard. There ARE a lot of people who are drawn to the persistance aspect of the game so as long as the shooter gameplay is solid the game will do fine.
I think you hit the nail what the problem is with DUST.
When the next "big FPS" for PS3 is published, everyone will leave DUST for the next "big FPS".
Currently they have an offer where you can buy some in game items for $19.99 and get into the beta, this is similar to what other games are doing.
HOWEVER, DUST is still only doing BETA weekends, these other games are in persistant beta, DOTA/SMITE etc, I don't think it's good practice to be charging people for weekend beta access, I can already sense the rage on the PS forums when people buy this and realise the beta is only running every second weekend.
Lets completely ignore the fact that Eve players are on PC
Lets ignore all the suggestion posts of Eve evolving into Ground based Fps/Vehicle combat over planetary control.
Last I checked the 300-400k accounts that give CCP money are all on PC, The people that buy the books, the mechandise and goto your stupid fanfest are all on PC.
This game even if it was mediocre would have sold like hotcakes ON PC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I dont know who makes the decisions over there at CCP but not delivering this game to their PC customer base is pure stupidity!!!!!!!!!!
Unfortunately the NDA prevents me from defending this game...
Lets just say that EvE was trashed plenty before and on release. Problem was that they saw the game through the lens of what they knew, so most compared it partially to Elite and partially to Ultima Online, and through that lens, yeah, it sucked.
Of course they did not, (nor did most players tbh) see what they where really playing.
Time proved them wrong.
I think history is about to repeat itself. Thus prepare for major trashing of DUST 514 in the coming months.
I'm not sure why EvE players are so upset. I mean Dust is an FPS. If you're playing EvE, it's nothing like an FPS. Hell I don't even know what it is. I just know that I hated it. Game companies are allowed to make games for whatever platform they want and CCP decided to make theirs on the PS3. They also decided it was going to be based kind of on the EvE lore? <-- don't know don't care about that bit. Anyway, the game is obviously not for you, so what are you so upset about?
OmaliMMO Business CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,177
Originally posted by seniorfrito
I'm not sure why EvE players are so upset. I mean Dust is an FPS. If you're playing EvE, it's nothing like an FPS. Hell I don't even know what it is. I just know that I hated it. Game companies are allowed to make games for whatever platform they want and CCP decided to make theirs on the PS3. They also decided it was going to be based kind of on the EvE lore? <-- don't know don't care about that bit. Anyway, the game is obviously not for you, so what are you so upset about?
This website is always upset, without exception. No matter the game, there are plenty of people who just log on to MMORPG.com to let out an endless stream of hate.
Unfortunately the NDA prevents me from defending this game...
Lets just say that EvE was trashed plenty before and on release. Problem was that they saw the game through the lens of what they knew, so most compared it partially to Elite and partially to Ultima Online, and through that lens, yeah, it sucked.
Of course they did not, (nor did most players tbh) see what they where really playing.
Time proved them wrong.
I think history is about to repeat itself. Thus prepare for major trashing of DUST 514 in the coming months.
Eve trashed or not is not the issue. Eve is not the issue, What they could do with a SPACE game, which there was what? 2 at the time? and now about the same?
EVE has led a blessed life, being almost alone in an entire genre.
They are trying to get into an entirely new (very, very crowded) category of gaming and doing it by forgeting where their money is coming from. THAT is the issue:)
/facepalm1st of all. the game is F2P, there is no box price. 2nd of all there are already lots of poeple on PS3 who are excited about dust so there is plenty of interest in the game. The game has already gotten all of the MAG community as well as a large portion of the Killzone and BF community onboard. There ARE a lot of people who are drawn to the persistance aspect of the game so as long as the shooter gameplay is solid the game will do fine.As for the gameplay feeling slow I don't know if I agree with that. They are still making many tweaks to it and the game is far from feature complete. Plus once the game truly ties into EVE then it will feel more in the EVE universe.
Thank you.. someone who doesn't live a box and understands that Dust could very well have a solid following. I play EVE and I own a PS3 that's connected to the internet. ( How ever mind blowing that may be for some lol ). Also as a formerly dedicated MAG player I see what they are attempting. Their true limitation is making sure the gameplay and mechanics are good. Dust will have more than enough support from the PS3 community..
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
the game lacks a lot... it can not compete with the big titles especially in the ps3. Killzone 3 and MAG are way better and you can also play them with PS Move + sharpshooter.
Even though I'm under NDA the game is under closed testing, it has potential and still has work to be done , my thoughts are how many maps will be there eventually since this is taking place in the EVE Universe it would have to encompass all its systems and planets, tbh I was skepitcal at first being a former EVE player coming into this but after testing for a while it feels like EVE plays like EVE, and with the endless setups and options for customization and specilization I feel this could do well on the PS3, but if they do decide eventually to port it over to the PC they will optimize it, and they will bring it to PC eventually.
Ported games, or even those designed for more than one platform always have issues. Cryptic originally designed their Champions Online title to run on an X-Box as well. As a result, the controls are such a pain to use. Key mappings change depending on what you're doing or what window is open. Calling it awkward would be very kind to it.
but there is more to it then that money money makes the world go round and ppl use consoles more then pc's
honestly i think its stupid but they go where the money is look at rockstar they make games on the consoles then port to pc. But do the consoles have issues not as likely but the testing for pc ports are terrible at their jobs clearly as almost every gta game to date has had issues bad issues on pc. Its almost if they gave a room full of monkeys peanuts and bananas and said ok play away and then said ok its good where we know the consoles got extensive testing and tested again before release
its almost as if they said hey pc gamers dont matter so we shall spend as little as possible and rockstar isnt the only ones
It is quite entertaining to see how desperate some people are for DUST to fail. The OP has cherrypicked one negative article and ignored many more positive ones.
It is quite entertaining to see how desperate some people are for DUST to fail. The OP has cherrypicked one negative article and ignored many more positive ones.
From a game design perspective, DUST 514 is the first of its kind.
Merging another MMO within the game has never been done before.
Didn't CCP's financials state that SOE invested into DUST? Explains the exclusivity.
As a F2P, I think it'll do well and hopefully expose more people to EVE.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
It is quite entertaining to see how desperate some people are for DUST to fail. The OP has cherrypicked one negative article and ignored many more positive ones.
You'll have to play it in order to understand what he means.
The gameplay of Dust514 is the absolute pinnacle of FPS and all that one might expect from a world-class developer.......of MMORPG's......so naturally, it feels nothing like the buttery-smooth perfection that is Battlefield 3. I tried it at the convention, too.
Controls were sluggish, the soldier walks super slow when fully upright and only slightly slower when crouched...there was no prone posture. Frankly, the soldier speed while upright should be the crouch speed and they should walk fairly quick while upright. Aiming was sluggish and jerky-jerky at the same time...I know this makes nonsense, but I cranked controller sensitivity all the way up and I was still frustrated by rate of movement. After playing many months of BF3, I felt like I was playing a student project....I just walked away.
That said, I hope things have improved in Beta. As far as the environments, I hope they do get more varied with different planets, amounts of atmospheres, and please FOR ThE LOVE OF GOd, Make each planet's amounts of Gravity unique...heavy, light, micro, should really add to the insanity.
As to why it's PS3 only, I should have thought that was obvious...if it was PC...most of play players would be EVE players who were no longer playing EVE. They need people playing both EVE and Dust to have this concept work.....that, and there are a whole lot of FPS players on consoles Who never play PC games. I expect it will release on PC after a year or so, maybe sooner if it does not do well on the PS3.
Problem is, if it cannot compete with CoD and BF3 from a gameplay perspective...CCP will be hating life. Make no mistake, while its F2P, CCP invested a lot of money into this venture and they NEED to earn it back via shop sales, etc
One caveat here is that I d not pay FPS on consoles as I suck with a controller. I am pretty skilled with a Mouse and Keyboard, so my opinion counts less than someone who plays a lot of FPS on consoles with a controller.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone www.spankybus.com -3d Artist & Compositor -Writer -Professional Amature
It is quite entertaining to see how desperate some people are for DUST to fail. The OP has cherrypicked one negative article and ignored many more positive ones.
You'll have to play it in order to understand what he means.
At such time as it's released on the PC, then I probably will. (There's no way i'm buying a PS3 just to play a single game on it, especially one that hasn't even been released yet)
But there's nothing to indicate that the OP has played it either... he only posted a single review and said nothing about his own experience. Conversely, the posting by people who actually are playing it seems to be rather more positive.
It is evident that there are a large number of people who, for reasons that I'm sure seem good to them, desperately want DUST to fail. Whether they're astroturfers, EVE players who are hurtebutte that CCP dared to make a console game, or just the kind of people that like to shit-talk any game that isn't the game that they play.
Personally I'd quite like to see DUST succeed; I think it would have a positive effect on the game I do play, which is EVE. But I don't want it enough to lower myself to forumwar tactics like cherrypicking one negative review out of the scores of highly positive ones, quotemining, logical fallacies, etc.
Posting outright assertions like "DUST is crap!" when the game is still in closed Beta, months away from release, and the majority of people playing it seem to be very postive about it is just... well: "astroturfers, EVE players who are hurtebutte that CCP dared to make a console game, or just the kind of people that like to shit-talk any game that isn't the game that they play " talking IMO.
The gameplay of Dust514 is the absolute pinnacle of FPS and all that one might expect from a world-class developer.......of MMORPG's......so naturally, it feels nothing like the buttery-smooth perfection that is Battlefield 3. I tried it at the convention, too.
Controls were sluggish, the soldier walks super slow when fully upright and only slightly slower when crouched...there was no prone posture. Frankly, the soldier speed while upright should be the crouch speed and they should walk fairly quick while upright. Aiming was sluggish and jerky-jerky at the same time...I know this makes nonsense, but I cranked controller sensitivity all the way up and I was still frustrated by rate of movement. After playing many months of BF3, I felt like I was playing a student project....I just walked away.
That said, I hope things have improved in Beta. As far as the environments, I hope they do get more varied with different planets, amounts of atmospheres, and please FOR ThE LOVE OF GOd, Make each planet's amounts of Gravity unique...heavy, light, micro, should really add to the insanity.
As to why it's PS3 only, I should have thought that was obvious...if it was PC...most of play players would be EVE players who were no longer playing EVE. They need people playing both EVE and Dust to have this concept work.....that, and there are a whole lot of FPS players on consoles Who never play PC games. I expect it will release on PC after a year or so, maybe sooner if it does not do well on the PS3.
Problem is, if it cannot compete with CoD and BF3 from a gameplay perspective...CCP will be hating life. Make no mistake, while its F2P, CCP invested a lot of money into this venture and they NEED to earn it back via shop sales, etc
One caveat here is that I d not pay FPS on consoles as I suck with a controller. I am pretty skilled with a Mouse and Keyboard, so my opinion counts less than someone who plays a lot of FPS on consoles with a controller.
mostly agree, though, whether the game ever releases on the PC also is debateable, as i doubt they could do so and allow the players to 'intermingle' due to the imbalance in control interfaces, its incredibly well documented that in terms of FPS games at least, the controller method of keyboard and mouse combo, is easier to use and faster/more accurate than that of a console gamepad, so much so that a mediocre player could, most of the time, pwn the hell out of a 'skilled' gamepad player most of the time. Thats not to say that Eve players in general are probably the ones who are most interested in this game, but i seriously doubt that the interest level would extend to buying a PS3 just to play it, and those that do have a console, are just as likely, if not more likely to own an XBOX, as a PS3, kind of have to wonder though, what percentage of Eve players also own a console, imo its likely to be a fairly low percentage, if its over 30 percent i would be moderately shocked. As for the BF3 or CoD thing, i have no real opinion, never played either.
mostly agree, though, whether the game ever releases on the PC also is debateable, as i doubt they could do so and allow the players to 'intermingle' due to the imbalance in control interfaces, its incredibly well documented that in terms of FPS games at least, the controller method of keyboard and mouse combo, is easier to use and faster/more accurate than that of a console gamepad, so much so that a mediocre player could, most of the time, pwn the hell out of a 'skilled' gamepad player most of the time. Thats not to say that Eve players in general are probably the ones who are most interested in this game, but i seriously doubt that the interest level would extend to buying a PS3 just to play it, and those that do have a console, are just as likely, if not more likely to own an XBOX, as a PS3, kind of have to wonder though, what percentage of Eve players also own a console, imo its likely to be a fairly low percentage, if its over 30 percent i would be moderately shocked. As for the BF3 or CoD thing, i have no real opinion, never played either.
They already are allowing for that 'intermingling' in that you can use mouse + keyboard on your ps3 because :ccp:
Comments
BestSigEver :P
That's what I'm afraid of. We all know CCP can do a hell of an mmoRPG, but a shooter? Are they really big shooter fans? Do they have any idea what they're doing in that area? I have no idea, but they're going to have some major competition, and the playerbase they're targetting doesn't care about EVE, they'll just play whichever shooter is the most fun.
Fingers are still crossed, but for me, the first red flag is that they're trying to sell cash shop content now, based on hype, before the game releases, before people have a chance to be disappointed. Doesn't prove anything, but it's just not a good sign..
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I ended up selling my ps3, but the entire time I had it MAG was the only game I thought was worth a damn at the time.
I did play Uncharted, and Resistance, and all the other fanboy titles and I didn't think any of them were too good, but MAG was amazing and I am quite honestly surprised it didn't do better. I didn't play at launch though, so it is possible that like every MMO ever released it had a shitty launch.
I think you hit the nail what the problem is with DUST.
When the next "big FPS" for PS3 is published, everyone will leave DUST for the next "big FPS".
Simple as that.
Currently they have an offer where you can buy some in game items for $19.99 and get into the beta, this is similar to what other games are doing.
HOWEVER, DUST is still only doing BETA weekends, these other games are in persistant beta, DOTA/SMITE etc, I don't think it's good practice to be charging people for weekend beta access, I can already sense the rage on the PS forums when people buy this and realise the beta is only running every second weekend.
haha
QFT
BigCountry | Head Hunters | www.wefarmpeople.com
Unfortunately the NDA prevents me from defending this game...
Lets just say that EvE was trashed plenty before and on release. Problem was that they saw the game through the lens of what they knew, so most compared it partially to Elite and partially to Ultima Online, and through that lens, yeah, it sucked.
Of course they did not, (nor did most players tbh) see what they where really playing.
Time proved them wrong.
I think history is about to repeat itself. Thus prepare for major trashing of DUST 514 in the coming months.
If Dust was on PC and not PS3 it would still be bad.
The platform it is on has absolutely nothing to do with the problems of Dust.
Dust is bad down to its core.
CCP tried to make a First Person Shooter and failed.
The fault and blame lies with CCP and not the PS3.
I'm not sure why EvE players are so upset. I mean Dust is an FPS. If you're playing EvE, it's nothing like an FPS. Hell I don't even know what it is. I just know that I hated it. Game companies are allowed to make games for whatever platform they want and CCP decided to make theirs on the PS3. They also decided it was going to be based kind of on the EvE lore? <-- don't know don't care about that bit. Anyway, the game is obviously not for you, so what are you so upset about?
This website is always upset, without exception. No matter the game, there are plenty of people who just log on to MMORPG.com to let out an endless stream of hate.
The link in the OP is a bit old. Here's a newer one if anyone is wondering.
http://www.gamebreaker.tv/video-game-shows/this-week-in-mmo-show/this-week-in-mmo-e3-mmo-wrap-up/
(40:00min)
Eve trashed or not is not the issue. Eve is not the issue, What they could do with a SPACE game, which there was what? 2 at the time? and now about the same?
EVE has led a blessed life, being almost alone in an entire genre.
They are trying to get into an entirely new (very, very crowded) category of gaming and doing it by forgeting where their money is coming from. THAT is the issue:)
Thank you.. someone who doesn't live a box and understands that Dust could very well have a solid following. I play EVE and I own a PS3 that's connected to the internet. ( How ever mind blowing that may be for some lol ). Also as a formerly dedicated MAG player I see what they are attempting. Their true limitation is making sure the gameplay and mechanics are good. Dust will have more than enough support from the PS3 community..PM before you report at least or you could just block.
I could care less what those rambling fools think, if CCP creates a game where infantry battles tie directly into the EVE world it will be a success.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
the game lacks a lot... it can not compete with the big titles especially in the ps3. Killzone 3 and MAG are way better and you can also play them with PS Move + sharpshooter.
Even though I'm under NDA the game is under closed testing, it has potential and still has work to be done , my thoughts are how many maps will be there eventually since this is taking place in the EVE Universe it would have to encompass all its systems and planets, tbh I was skepitcal at first being a former EVE player coming into this but after testing for a while it feels like EVE plays like EVE, and with the endless setups and options for customization and specilization I feel this could do well on the PS3, but if they do decide eventually to port it over to the PC they will optimize it, and they will bring it to PC eventually.
but there is more to it then that money money makes the world go round and ppl use consoles more then pc's
honestly i think its stupid but they go where the money is look at rockstar they make games on the consoles then port to pc. But do the consoles have issues not as likely but the testing for pc ports are terrible at their jobs clearly as almost every gta game to date has had issues bad issues on pc. Its almost if they gave a room full of monkeys peanuts and bananas and said ok play away and then said ok its good where we know the consoles got extensive testing and tested again before release
its almost as if they said hey pc gamers dont matter so we shall spend as little as possible and rockstar isnt the only ones
It is quite entertaining to see how desperate some people are for DUST to fail. The OP has cherrypicked one negative article and ignored many more positive ones.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
From a game design perspective, DUST 514 is the first of its kind.
Merging another MMO within the game has never been done before.
Didn't CCP's financials state that SOE invested into DUST? Explains the exclusivity.
As a F2P, I think it'll do well and hopefully expose more people to EVE.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
You'll have to play it in order to understand what he means.
This is not a game.
The gameplay of Dust514 is the absolute pinnacle of FPS and all that one might expect from a world-class developer.......of MMORPG's......so naturally, it feels nothing like the buttery-smooth perfection that is Battlefield 3. I tried it at the convention, too.
Controls were sluggish, the soldier walks super slow when fully upright and only slightly slower when crouched...there was no prone posture. Frankly, the soldier speed while upright should be the crouch speed and they should walk fairly quick while upright. Aiming was sluggish and jerky-jerky at the same time...I know this makes nonsense, but I cranked controller sensitivity all the way up and I was still frustrated by rate of movement. After playing many months of BF3, I felt like I was playing a student project....I just walked away.
That said, I hope things have improved in Beta. As far as the environments, I hope they do get more varied with different planets, amounts of atmospheres, and please FOR ThE LOVE OF GOd, Make each planet's amounts of Gravity unique...heavy, light, micro, should really add to the insanity.
As to why it's PS3 only, I should have thought that was obvious...if it was PC...most of play players would be EVE players who were no longer playing EVE. They need people playing both EVE and Dust to have this concept work.....that, and there are a whole lot of FPS players on consoles Who never play PC games. I expect it will release on PC after a year or so, maybe sooner if it does not do well on the PS3.
Problem is, if it cannot compete with CoD and BF3 from a gameplay perspective...CCP will be hating life. Make no mistake, while its F2P, CCP invested a lot of money into this venture and they NEED to earn it back via shop sales, etc
One caveat here is that I d not pay FPS on consoles as I suck with a controller. I am pretty skilled with a Mouse and Keyboard, so my opinion counts less than someone who plays a lot of FPS on consoles with a controller.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature
At such time as it's released on the PC, then I probably will. (There's no way i'm buying a PS3 just to play a single game on it, especially one that hasn't even been released yet)
But there's nothing to indicate that the OP has played it either... he only posted a single review and said nothing about his own experience. Conversely, the posting by people who actually are playing it seems to be rather more positive.
It is evident that there are a large number of people who, for reasons that I'm sure seem good to them, desperately want DUST to fail. Whether they're astroturfers, EVE players who are hurtebutte that CCP dared to make a console game, or just the kind of people that like to shit-talk any game that isn't the game that they play.
Personally I'd quite like to see DUST succeed; I think it would have a positive effect on the game I do play, which is EVE. But I don't want it enough to lower myself to forumwar tactics like cherrypicking one negative review out of the scores of highly positive ones, quotemining, logical fallacies, etc.
Posting outright assertions like "DUST is crap!" when the game is still in closed Beta, months away from release, and the majority of people playing it seem to be very postive about it is just... well: "astroturfers, EVE players who are hurtebutte that CCP dared to make a console game, or just the kind of people that like to shit-talk any game that isn't the game that they play " talking IMO.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
mostly agree, though, whether the game ever releases on the PC also is debateable, as i doubt they could do so and allow the players to 'intermingle' due to the imbalance in control interfaces, its incredibly well documented that in terms of FPS games at least, the controller method of keyboard and mouse combo, is easier to use and faster/more accurate than that of a console gamepad, so much so that a mediocre player could, most of the time, pwn the hell out of a 'skilled' gamepad player most of the time. Thats not to say that Eve players in general are probably the ones who are most interested in this game, but i seriously doubt that the interest level would extend to buying a PS3 just to play it, and those that do have a console, are just as likely, if not more likely to own an XBOX, as a PS3, kind of have to wonder though, what percentage of Eve players also own a console, imo its likely to be a fairly low percentage, if its over 30 percent i would be moderately shocked. As for the BF3 or CoD thing, i have no real opinion, never played either.
They already are allowing for that 'intermingling' in that you can use mouse + keyboard on your ps3 because :ccp: