Demonic possession

gargantroo · September 2005

Do you think it's real, could happen, or that it's a hoax? I've been reading alot on it lately after hearing about that new movie and it seems pretty deep and realistic. I don't want this to turn into a "God isn't real thread", because God isn't the topic here. If your going to give an atheistic view on anything, please focus on excorcism (I.e. list diseases or give an explanation describing the supernatural events). I'm agnostic right now, so I am 50/50 on whether this is real or not. They say it can be extreme cases of epilepsi with hallucinations involved and the use of extreme brain/ muscle power to contort their body in those ways and also be able to adapt to new languages so fast. The other side of me says that it is demonic posession. What do you guys think?

Enigma · September 2005

In my opinion it's real

Ive never done one but the people that I know that had done an exorcism usually dont do it again and they dont like to talk about it.

I would say about 90% is mental though. However, with the other 10% you just have that "feeling"

Hard to explain...

but Im gonna put this in off topic ok

Vald · September 2005

I believe its real but, in the sense that its somthing we have yet to explain. You have to understand that many of the mental illnesses we know of today, we diagnosed only within the passed century. People have genuinly suffered from it, without question. But, what it is, probably falls under a disease rather than somthing else.

billie · September 2005

The #1 Angel Lucifer and 1/3 of the heavenly host ( Thrones, Principalities and Dominions ) rule earth ( due to an unfortunate incident where Lucifer refused to bow to man, nevertheless 1/3 of Heaven choose to follow Him and be banned from Heaven down to earth, there to rule untill the actual comming of the Jewish awaited Messiah [ what Yeshua { ie. 'Jesus Christ' } did was not what the messiah is supposed to do and hence why the Jews did not recognize Him as such. ] )

Since Lucifer rules earth, untill over 80% of mankind is destroyed ( ie. armagedon-revelation ) and the Messiah begins the New World Order ruled from Jerusalem, Israel ( they are the 'choosen people, after all. ) Meanwhile weak minds and souls can easily be occupied by beings whose life is other than the water + dirt reality of humans ( ie. fire, air, void, there are many realities and orders of existance beyond what humans can comprehend or "see." )

Notice much of the current advancement of hominids was in the last 2400 years, since the Bronze (smelting alloys) Age of 3300BC. Homo Sapiens ( HS ) having existed over 200,000 years... ( Neanderthal [ displacing the earlier Homo Erectus ] adapted to the cyclic 17,000 ice ages for 400,000 years. Neanderthal were not a subspecies of HS. ) ... during those ice ages, the sea level was 100s feet lower than it is now. Alot different coastline then [ but that knowledge is intentionally covered up and Atlantis is considered a myth as is 'extra terrestrial' occupation. ] ) HS having existed for +200k years vs bang, in the last 2.4k years we are exploring other planets and manipulating genetic sequencing.

The modern scam priest have no actual abilities over those daemons, those have to be controled by specific magics (ie. Solomon's seal, Verdelect incantations... ) Modern scam priest are sort of moral interpreters to pass judgement on people's offences, since G has no actual part in their lives (the people nor the priest. )

Enigma · September 2005

You had me until the last paragraph. Then it was like whoah....

Here's a little something that counter acts your arguments

John 14:12 - "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father.

Mark 6:13 - And they cast out many demons, and anointed with oil many that were sick and healed them.

Mark 16:17 - And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues;

Those are just three

I never knew Solomon's seal can cast out demons. That's a plant you know. And Verdelect incantations is named after Verdelect the Master of Ceremonies in Hell.

So I find it hard to imagine that you think Priests can not do it (even though Christ grants them "power" to but you can summon the Grand Master of Ceremonies of Hell to cast them out for you).

Interesting.

Im just curious to know your background. Are you a satanist? Not many people talk to a Gabriel counterpart of Hell. But in today's world with modern cell phones and email I guess anyone could.

Rikimaru_X · September 2005

I don't know. We got ghostbusters . . . . what else do we need? That Emely whatever movie could have been finished in 30 min if the ghostbusters busted in and set the trap.

Rufius · September 2005

Originally posted by En1Gma
John 14:12 - "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father.
Mark 6:13 - And they cast out many demons, and anointed with oil many that were sick and healed them.
Mark 16:17 - And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues;

How I interpreted this...

This meant to me that he who believes in him will do as he does, works as in a task of fulling the wishes of God, Exorcism is like a power, not a work. From my perspective.

I believe these oils that they annointed them were remedies to the disease. In the Bible they circumsize a child on the 7th day if I remember correct, this day is ideal as the child has a high healing rate. I forget the science but, it was proven somewhere. Google it if you care to know.

This one was taken out of context, I think. What signs is Mark refering too? But the other part is basically speaking from the Holy Ghost. Every service in the name of Jesus Christ involves invoking the Holy Ghost, people pray that the speaker of the House is blessed by the ability to speak in Jesus's steed. To put it frankly, not to be a bad example.

I just think that the exorcism was a misinterpretation of The Holy Bible a false path. I think Jesus had unsurpassed knowledge and skills, which allowed him to create these miracules, far beyond man's comprehension. From my undertanding Jesus handled each situation with a correct solution. He didn't just conjure up a miracule out of thin air. That's what ties him to Mankind, and makes him human. It does say he was human in The Holy Bible.

I'm a Science Christian, at times.

sidebuster · September 2005

.....

WHEN theres something strange, in your neighborhood. Who you gonna call?

GHOSTBUSTERS! I ain't affriad of no ghost!

Finwe · September 2005

Originally posted by Betrayal-X

I just think that the exorcism was a misinterpretation of The Holy Bible a false path. I think Jesus had unsurpassed knowledge and skills, which allowed him to create these miracules, far beyond man's comprehension. From my undertanding Jesus handled each situation with a correct solution. He didn't just conjure up a miracule out of thin air. That's what ties him to Mankind, and makes him human. It does say he was human in The Holy Bible.

I'm a Science Christian, at times.

Are you saying Exorcisms aren't real? The throwing out of demons that posess somebody? And that in the Bible it was just a mis-intepretation?

Mark 1:21 And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught.

Mark 1:22 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.

Mark 1:23 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,

Mark 1:24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.

Mark 1:25 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him.

And,

Mark 9:25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.

Mark 9:26 And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.

Mark 9:27 But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.

Mark 9:28 And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out?

Mark 9:29 And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

That's only a couple instances. And I could give you many more. I'm a fervent Christian; and scriptures like that prove to me that they are real. But they also prove to me, that this belief of only Priest's, or people trained in "exorcisms", can only cast them out, is just Biblically untrue.

seabass2003 · September 2005

I would have to say its possible but not probable. 99% of all possessions are either scams or due to unknown circumstances. This is my opinion. Like the Salem witch trials later discoveries say the girls got caught doing something and didn't want to get in trouble. Back then you could blame the devil. Also they said it was possible that the girls ate contaminated bread. But, you can't just dismiss things. You need to proof to either prove its false or that it is real. The human mind is so advanced and uncharted that we have almost endless possibilites. But I can't imagine a human being able to speak a language they have never heard ever, or being able to truly levitate. I will tell you that each individual has some special powers, lack of a better definition. You need to learn what they are. If you don't believe me concentrate on one thing that benefits someone else. I don't mean just think good thoughts or something like that I mean picture it and concentrate on it for hours and see what happens. If it doesn't work it doesn't mean you don't have power it just means you haven't found yours.

This part is a personal story. I have 2 little boys who both got really sick. They were vomitting and had diarhea really bad. They were having terrible fevers and I felt desperate to do something because nothing was making them better. I had even taken them to the hospital and the doctor couldn't explain but said just keep them hydrated. This continued on and just broke my heart to see them in so much pain. They are 1 and 2 years old. So, I decided I would make them better myself. I gathered them to me and pictured a clean flowing river of crystal clear mountain water rushing into them. I sat there for 2 hours or more not knowing what I was saying other than keeping the river flowing through them and that I would accept the sickness in me. When I woke from what I was doing I looked at my boys and they looked at me and smiled. They got up and started playing with their toys like nothing had happened. I was sick for the next 5 days but I didn't care because I knew my little boys were fine.

I'll let you decide if you believe my story or not but for me its the honest truth. Some people dismiss it saying that it was a 48 or 72 hour bug and stuff like that. Oh well.

Well anyways, in conclusion I would say its possible but not likely that possesions happen. But you can't dismiss these things out of hand, they must be studied.

pyrofreak · September 2005

Bible..

*head explodes*

Rufius · September 2005

Originally posted by Finwe

Are you saying Exorcisms aren't real? The throwing out of demons that posess somebody? And that in the Bible it was just a mis-intepretation?

Mark 1:21 And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught.
Mark 1:22 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.
Mark 1:23 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,
Mark 1:24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
Mark 1:25 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him.
And,
Mark 9:25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
Mark 9:26 And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.
Mark 9:27 But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.
Mark 9:28 And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out?
Mark 9:29 And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

That's only a couple instances. And I could give you many more. I'm a fervent Christian; and scriptures like that prove to me that they are real. But they also prove to me, that this belief of only Priest's, or people trained in "exorcisms", can only cast them out, is just Biblically untrue.

If your father scolded you when you was a child for doing something wrong would that change your attitude? Basically in the first few quoted scriptures Jesus, demostrated his authority with this man. And it changed him.

Of course, praying and fasting, gives a man a whole new aspect on life. It seems to me men of the house he entered wished to cast out the man into the world. And Jesus gave the proper solution to this man's dilemma.

I still believe that's another misinterpretation.

Enigma · September 2005

lol was that Ray Charles in that PIC???

He looks just like Billy Dee Williams

sidebuster · September 2005

He looks like Lando calrizian (sp)

http://www.polbox.com/k/killerek/assets/images/Lando.gif

Finwe · September 2005

Originally posted by Betrayal-X
If your father scolded you when you was a child for doing something wrong would that change your attitude? Basically in the first few quoted scriptures Jesus, demostrated his authority with this man. And it changed him.

Of course, praying and fasting, gives a man a whole new aspect on life. It seems to me men of the house he entered wished to cast out the man into the world. And Jesus gave the proper solution to this man's dilemma.

I still believe that's another misinterpretation.

You're saying every verse and scripture you don't agree with is a mis-interpretation. Which the context and words of the verse are as such that the only mis-interpretation could be one of inserting something that was in fact not real. So either the verse is as such, or there is no verse.

I'm hoping with your brazen comments of saying something is just a mis-interpretation. That you actually have proof of this, and not just your opinion and belief on the matter. Educate yourself on the matter. Just don't go by what you think it means. Find out what it means, and go by that.

Sparks243 · September 2005

I can't remember who it was (I think it was Benny Hinn) but he would have all the people stand up and wave his hand across and everyone would be knocked down with "The Might of the Lord".

Well when I heard he was going to be in town I figured I would show up and de-bunk it by still standing.

But when he did that, something forced me backwards, and it was not anything Holy.

Needless to say, I got out of there, fast.

Razorback · September 2005

Yeah I think its real...

O Wait... Gandalf is knocking on my door... and I think hes got those wretched hobbits with him

Rufius · September 2005

Originally posted by Finwe

Originally posted by Betrayal-X

If your father scolded you when you was a child for doing something wrong would that change your attitude? Basically in the first few quoted scriptures Jesus, demonstrated his authority with this man. And it changed him.

Of course, praying and fasting, gives a man a whole new aspect on life. It seems to me men of the house he entered wished to cast out the man into the world. And Jesus gave the proper solution to this man's dilemma.

I still believe that's another misinterpretation.

You're saying every verse and scripture you don't agree with is a mis-interpretation. Which the context and words of the verse are as such that the only mis-interpretation could be one of inserting something that was in fact not real. So either the verse is as such, or there is no verse.

I'm hoping with your brazen comments of saying something is just a mis-interpretation. That you actually have proof of this, and not just your opinion and belief on the matter. Educate yourself on the matter. Just don't go by what you think it means. Find out what it means, and go by that.

You put words in my mouth there. I did not say I didn't agree with the verse. I agree with what Jesus said and did. I just don't see it the way other people view it. If you want to imagine Christ using some unseen force to cure this man of an affliction then you are welcome to view it as that. I simply don't look at Christ as a magical being, I see more human in him then the those that view him as a God.

It's very hard to be sure what his Disciples meant, when they asked "Why can't we cast him out?" Perhaps they asked Christ to remove the man from the church. Jesus denied the request and offered his solution. It's different interpretations, I call the ones I don't believe misinterpretations, it's how I study The Holy Bible.

The only way, I will truly know what it means is if I decipher the Hebrew code and find out what was written. But then you have too many options to take into consideration. Finding the direct teachings of Christ, validating the direct teachings, and so on. But, I think this is a near impossible task for one individual. One single educated mind will only go so far too finding the answer to this, it will take generations of unbiased research to unlock the mystery. A long shot too say the least.

It's just part of my faith, we all believe in different ways.

Rufius · September 2005

Originally posted by Sparks243
But when he did that, something forced me backwards, and it was not anything Holy.
Needless to say, I got out of there, fast.

I'm not going to believe it either way (I don't like Benny Hinn) but, I'm curious as to why you felt it wasn't Holy?

Sparks243 · September 2005

Becuase I felt fine when I went it, and after I got knocked down, I felt extermely drained and sick, and you could just feel a bad aura.

Razorback · September 2005

I think many people under rate the power of suggestion

If people at "demonic possesion excorcisms" had been told throughout history that it was caused by eating fish that wasnt cooked properly and the spirit of the fish had entered their body, thats what they would believe.

Just because someone tells you, you have a demon, it does not make it true!

Go and watch any half baked stage hypnotist at work and you will see the power of sugestion. Combine this with the mind sets of people living 2000-3000 years ago and it does not take a great leap of inteligence to realise what is happening here.

Gideon · September 2005

Originally posted by Sparks243
Becuase I felt fine when I went it, and after I got knocked down, I felt extermely drained and sick, and you could just feel a bad aura.

I would leave fast also... thats freaky. ::::05:: I wonder if somone with a bat comes and hits you on the head. Then when you wake up you feel horrible. ::::34::

Enigma · September 2005

I met Binny Henn once. My brother-in-law attended Oral Roberts University for his Masters in Business Administration (the same college Homer Simpson's neighbor graduated from....and Matt Greoning as well lol) and Ol Binny was there at the graduation ceremony...apparently he's on the Board there at the college.

Never did like him professionally. I dont know if it's his hair or what...I dont trust the man.

Sparks243 · September 2005

I was knocked down, not knocked out

I was conscious the whole time

Enigma · September 2005

Originally posted by Sparks243
I was knocked down, not knocked outI was conscious the whole time

Traditionally in christian circles that is called Over come in the Spirit.

The only thing is...it happens to people who wants to happen and it's usually a state of Euphora (sp?)...extreme bliss and happiness.

Yours sound like a hellish experience. Ive got issues with Hinn....well...I have doctrinal issues with him. But maybe you should see a counselor over it? Like, a regular counselor? Just a thought.

Sparks243 · September 2005

Originally posted by En1Gma
But maybe you should see a counselor over it? Like, a regular counselor? Just a thought.

I went because the Pastor of my church (Independent Baptist) said he had gone through a very similar experience.

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Demonic possession

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