Thanks for the example. I spent alot of my time in game just travelling and neglected to pay attention to the mobs! Not a good survival tactic. I have seen that in other games too though, but I cant remember which. Ill update post later if I remember.
Also, I gotta say, though the water isnt very interactive, its still really nice to look at. I like the details like fish swimming around. The weather is just awesome too.
To go back on topic, I truly feel that someone who enjoys SWG will enjoy SoR. Both Pre CU and Post CU. The skill based system is fantastic, altering your spells and abilities is awesome and adds an extra element to the game. The graphics are much nicer, they also look nicer on lower end systems then SWG would on a higher end system. Thats mostly because the style of graphics I think, ie; WoW.
Also, PvP is going be to be expanded on substantially. But it wont ruin the game for those who dont want to PvP, much like SWG. I also havent been added on to any mailing lists due to needing a credit card. Not one advertisement in my e-mail or mail. I recommend starting the 2 week trial, cancel it right after, if you dont like it you can uninstall and forget about it.
Its Sci Fi and Fantasy mixed. Might want to check what your commenting about next time bro. Kai
I did. Thank you for your most insightful comment.
One little request : which genre is Ryzom listed in here on mmorpg.com ? I am too immature and lazy to click over to that page and read - please help me here !
Have fun
Erillion
That is your proof? Because a site had to pick between sci fi or fantasy you automatically assume its one or the other? So I guess I am the moron and only imagined the rifles, pistols, alien invasion, etc in SoR right? Oh no wait I actually played the bloody game and know. You didnt. So you know squat.
You wouldnt enjoy SoR anyway. It actually has few bugs for you to lie about or justify and SoR has something called content. I doubt you could handle it. Your head would probably explode.
Have fun paying to play in a buggy commercial
Kai
Look, I don't care about SOR or what it is classified as. What I do care about is the fact that you have accused erillion of lying and attempting to justify the grocery list of bugs and missing content that SWG has. He's usually the first to point out the flaws and last to outright ignore anything. This ceased to be a debate when you got childish. Now it's the start of a lovely little thing we call a flame war.
On a brighter note, SoR sounds good from what I read. Interesting story. Interesting skill system. But the FREE trial still requires a fucking credit card and a one dollar transaction. EVE doesn't do this, why should SoR?
Originally posted by Erillion GREAT ! Its also fantasy - a genre I personally dont have an interest in. And in the fantasy genre there is a plethora of other great games, live or in development. So we Sci-Fi freaks stay with our buggy Sci-Fi games have fun Erillion
Erillion you're doing exactly what you accuse others of doing.
Don't judge Ryzom unless you've tried it. It's *not* fantasy... at least not purely. There's a lot of Sci-Fi in it too... it's actually an interesting mix of the two.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Erillion GREAT ! Its also fantasy - a genre I personally dont have an interest in. And in the fantasy genre there is a plethora of other great games, live or in development. So we Sci-Fi freaks stay with our buggy Sci-Fi games have fun Erillion
Erillion you're doing exactly what you accuse others of doing.
Don't judge Ryzom unless you've tried it. It's *not* fantasy... at least not purely. There's a lot of Sci-Fi in it too... it's actually an interesting mix of the two.
I dont think you will find any criticism of Ryzom in my posts. I looked at the screenshots, I watched someone play. IMHO its primarily fantasy (a purely personal opinion) and mmorpg.com seems to have the same opinion . So I dont "judge" Ryzom ... I even call it great that someone has fun playing it. It is just not something for me.
The fantasy genre is older than the Sci-Fi genre and has more mature, less buggy games IMHO. Sci-Fi games (like SWG and EVE) in general seem to have more bugs than fantasy games. So a Sci-Fi fan like me has learned to live with that.
Originally posted by Erillion Originally posted by ElnatorOriginally posted by ErillionGREAT ! Its also fantasy - a genre I personally dont have an interest in. And in the fantasy genre there is a plethora of other great games, live or in development. So we Sci-Fi freaks stay with our buggy Sci-Fi games have funErillionErillion you're doing exactly what you accuse others of doing. Don't judge Ryzom unless you've tried it. It's *not* fantasy... at least not purely. There's a lot of Sci-Fi in it too... it's actually an interesting mix of the two. I dont think you will find any criticism of Ryzom in my posts. I looked at the screenshots, I watched someone play. IMHO its primarily fantasy (a purely personal opinion) and mmorpg.com seems to have the same opinion . So I dont "judge" Ryzom ... I even call it great that someone has fun playing it. It is just not something for me. The fantasy genre is older than the Sci-Fi genre and has more mature, less buggy games IMHO. Sci-Fi games (like SWG and EVE) in general seem to have more bugs than fantasy games. So a Sci-Fi fan like me has learned to live with that. Have fun Erillion
Just letting you know that, as a "Sci fi freak" myself I've found Ryzom to be a solid experience that rivals the fun I had in SWG before I got fed up with the devs. It is a nice game and certainly isn't your typical "Fantasy" MMO. It's got a lot more Sci Fi to it than people realize.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
I was in beta for this game and have signed up for the trial period twice. Once being this week, since some good things are now being said about it. I'm going to be honest and say I found the contents of this thread hard to believe, given how bad it was in beta and not so long ago.
Overall I'm still not very impressed with it. I'm still going to give it a go until the end of the trail period, although so far I find it (the newbie area) compelty soleless and hate the ui (to cluttered). Its also not Sci-Fi enough, for my taste. Yes its a blend, but you can't avoid (at least early on) that its has one foot longer than the other, that being firmly placed in fantasy. Why can't we have a Sci-Fi mmorpg that doesn't having you kill critters?
Originally posted by grapevine Its also not Sci-Fi enough, for my taste. Yes its a blend, but you can't avoid (at least early on) that its has one foot longer than the other, that being firmly placed in fantasy.
That about sums up my first impression (from watching someone play and checking out pictures here and on other websites). Contrary to "EVE" and "SWG" it did not "click" into place as a game I would like to try for a longer period. The same happened when I checked out EQ and EQ2 and GW. CoH and WoW was fun, but only for a short period. Ultima .. well ... ... but I like the single player game more than the multiplayer.
"Tabula Rasa" sounds like an interesting Sci-Fi/Fantasy blend ... and truth be told, I am an old Lord British fan.
From the fantasy genre, "Age of Conan" looks promising (guess I will need a new computer for that one :-). "D&D" I will check out AFTER the initial release .. I think this one will need some time to get into gear. "Vanguard" and "Dark and Light" .. lots of hype and press, but again .. no "click" here. Maybe the have free trials. "Pirates" ... even if its not fantasy .. may actually be a ton of fun. We will see how they implement it and if they can capture the SidMeierish-feeling. "Warhammer" and "LOTR" would usually be favorites of mine, but I consider them wait and see (lot of potential, but not as well implemented as it could be , a bit like SWG) . Same for "Star Trek" (back to the few real Sci-Fi games in planning) - many interesting ideas, but it does not sound very Trekish so far.
A while back, one of my people loaded up Farcry for me to take a look at, as we are planning an FPS in the future. This game is considered the best of the FPS genre by many.
I was not impressed. I mean it looked OKAY, seemed to run smooth even on his laptop, but big deal. A shooter.
It wasn't until just recently that I loaded up the game and played it myself. It is still considered the best of the FPS genre. NOW I know why. I could improve on the game with many ideas, but they have a perfectly working and fun product on their hands that has stood the test of time.
The same goes for MMOs. People look, say, "I don't like it's look" and then never consider a game that they would likely enjoy a great deal anyway.
It goes with the idea that "Looks Sell" and in this industry, graphics is the big seller. That said, SWG should have a LOT more in the way of returning customers, but they don't. They get drawn in, and they see the great graphics, and isn't that neat. But after a little while, they are not nearly as impressed with the game as its GAMEPLAY comes home to haunt them. By that time, graphics means nothing. The look has worn off.
That's why I recommend people play the danged thing before commenting.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Originally posted by Wepps I'd like to comment on that Erillion.A while back, one of my people loaded up Farcry for me to take a look at, as we are planning an FPS in the future. This game is considered the best of the FPS genre by many. I was not impressed. I mean it looked OKAY, seemed to run smooth even on his laptop, but big deal. A shooter.It wasn't until just recently that I loaded up the game and played it myself. It is still considered the best of the FPS genre. NOW I know why. I could improve on the game with many ideas, but they have a perfectly working and fun product on their hands that has stood the test of time.The same goes for MMOs. People look, say, "I don't like it's look" and then never consider a game that they would likely enjoy a great deal anyway. It goes with the idea that "Looks Sell" and in this industry, graphics is the big seller. That said, SWG should have a LOT more in the way of returning customers, but they don't. They get drawn in, and they see the great graphics, and isn't that neat. But after a little while, they are not nearly as impressed with the game as its GAMEPLAY comes home to haunt them. By that time, graphics means nothing. The look has worn off.That's why I recommend people play the danged thing before commenting.
God knows I don't often agree with Wepps but he's got a point here. If I hadn't tried Ryzom I wouldn't have liked it either. I'd have dismissed it as "just another fantasy MMO". But it's not. It's got a lot to offer. It's not the greatest game since sliced bread but it does appear to be bug free, a nice blend of fantasy and sci-fi (once you get past the first blush) and a really nice skill / level system blend as well. (Like I said, reminds me very much of AO in many ways).
Whoever said this is like SWG pre CU really doesn't have it quite right but if you like SWG odds are you'll probably enjoy SOR as well. I also hafta say that killing critters to get xp/skill/levels in Ryzom makes a lot more sense to me than it ever did in SWG. One of my biggest irritants in SWG is the reliance on killing "monsters" to "level/skill" up in the game. I never watched the movies and thought to myself "ya know, I'd really love to be in that Galaxy Far Far away so I can shoot at taun taun's all day".
In any case, it's a free trial so for me it was worth trying. Especially since the Devs finally managed to chase me away from SWG a while back.
Don't get me wrong... I haven't played it nearly long enough to say it's "The game" or "a great game" but it is a solid game that's been fun while I've been trying it out. I haven't found a dungeon or cave yet though so that does have me a bit concerned. If all there is in Ryzom is 'above ground' adventures I'll probably grow tired of it fairly quickly. But for now it's interesting enough to warrant being installed on my system. And it's free so there's no reason not to try it
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
OK. I shouldn't post this to take this topic even further into the flames, but I can't resist.
What the heck did Erillion post that was worth the responses he got from you Kai? I have been scanning these boards for about 6 weeks now, and those were the most uncalled for responses I have seen yet - far and away.
The guy thinks the game is fantasy. To him - it's fantasy. Big freakin' deal. Is he really that far off the mark? There are maces, axes, swords, and shields for crying out loud. Sure, those of us who play Ryzom know there is more to it to than that, but you gotta be kidding me with your responses!
His point was the game was not for him. He did not bash it, he did not critique it, he did not flame it. He pointed out it wasn't for him "personally" because he likes Sci-Fi games. Heaven forbid he posts his thoughts and opinions!!!! You would think this is a message board or something!!!! Quick - a forum where people post their thoughts - run for cover!
I am (as of now anyway) a big SWG and Ryzom supporter. No hidden agenda in this post. But saying Erillion is too immature to belong to the Ryzom community is probably the most bizarre thing you wrote. I actually think he would enjoy Ryzom much more than he thinks for the very reason that he would fit in perfectly.
The fact of the matter is, this is the first time I have ever responded to a post such as this, mostly because I view them as petty and a waste of time. But I think you should really consider apologizing for your initial two responses. Perhaps read his post again and then read yours. Just my 2 cents - which I realize is worth about that.
And to cut everyone off at the pass- No, I don't think I'm the forum police. I am a member of this community that happens to seriously dislike unsolicited responses like that. And please, if I am missing something here, feel free to clue me in. I realize I am new.
- Rylaan
------------------------------------------- The very definition of newbie.
Originally posted by Rylaan OK. I shouldn't post this to take this topic even further into the flames, but I can't resist. What the heck did Erillion post that was worth the responses he got from you Kai? I have been scanning these boards for about 6 weeks now, and those were the most uncalled for responses I have seen yet - far and away. If you had been watching 6 weeks then you have read posts where he has literally contradicted the truth and even called me a liar when what I said was true. The guy thinks the game is fantasy. To him - it's fantasy. Big freakin' deal. Is he really that far off the mark? There are maces, axes, swords, and shields for crying out loud. Sure, those of us who play Ryzom know there is more to it to than that, but you gotta be kidding me with your responses! Swords and hammers and such in SWG also. But I am willing to bet if I called SWG fantasy he would be all over me. His point was the game was not for him. He did not bash it, he did not critique it, he did not flame it. He pointed out it wasn't for him "personally" because he likes Sci-Fi games. Heaven forbid he posts his thoughts and opinions!!!! You would think this is a message board or something!!!! Quick - a forum where people post their thoughts - run for cover! He is more then willing to jump on anyone with even the slightest negativity about SWG. I have seen him do it time and again. Especially when the negative comment is more then true he still tries to dissuade or outright lie to counter it. I am (as of now anyway) a big SWG and Ryzom supporter. No hidden agenda in this post. But saying Erillion is too immature to belong to the Ryzom community is probably the most bizarre thing you wrote. I actually think he would enjoy Ryzom much more than he thinks for the very reason that he would fit in perfectly. I would love if he tried it before he commented on it. At least I had the common decency to play SWG again before I made any posts on it. And eventhough he is a hardcore SWG fanboi I am willing to bet once he played SoR he might like it more and realize that what the heck is wrong with SWG. The fact of the matter is, this is the first time I have ever responded to a post such as this, mostly because I view them as petty and a waste of time. But I think you should really consider apologizing for your initial two responses. Perhaps read his post again and then read yours. Just my 2 cents - which I realize is worth about that. And to cut everyone off at the pass- No, I don't think I'm the forum police. I am a member of this community that happens to seriously dislike unsolicited responses like that. And please, if I am missing something here, feel free to clue me in. I realize I am new. - Rylaan
If he had tried the trial and then said he didnt like it then I would have no problem. But to say he doesnt like a game because he saw it was listed under "Fantasy" on a third party site? If you spend even 2 minutes on the main site you can see the game is as much sci fi, if not more.
Fact is I gave him less then the treatment he gives me. If I say even one thing 100% truthful but also negative about SWG he will be there to either contradict me or even call me an outright liar. He insults us with every fanboi post by insulting our intelligence.
I wish SWG was the game he makes it out to be. The game would have 10 million players if it was even half as good as he builds it up to be. I would almost recommend that SOE and LA hire Eri to sell the game. It would sell billions of copies. But I said almost. Because once they saw the game for what it really was they would probably hunt Eri down to burn him at the stake.
I am not apologizing. He has said far worse to me in the past. Turn about is fair play. I respect him for loving a buggy game so much and having the fortitude to stick with such a pile of trash as SWG. But I also know the truth about SWG and the fanbois. Because I used to be him. Identical in everyway.
@ Kai - Fine. There is obviously alot of history here that I am totally in the dark about. So I will bow out of whatever is going on there.
Now regarding Ryzom : I have played quite a bit more over the past few days, and continue to like the game alot. My biggest hangup is without question the combat. It seems "fast". Monsters hit pretty big. I have had lengthy discussions with guids and guildmasters online, and they assure me it gets better the further in you get. The problem is, these people work for a company that has been prohibited to speak about ANY specifics regarding gameplay. In a way, I like that. It leaves lots for the player to discover on their own. On the other hand, it means devoting more time "waiting and hoping" for certain things to get better, and not knowing for sure if they will. The missions are sort of different too, for anyone thinking of trying it. I guess they really aren't any different than other games, but they seem.... I don't know, maybe someone else can explain it better.
The community is starting to see an influx of players for sure, albeit very small numbers compared to the heavy hitters (WoW, EQ II, CoH). There is so much to look forward to in the game of Ryzom, it's hard to stop playing at times. I'm not sure a 14 day trial will be enough to end up giving it an accurate review when it ends though.
- Rylaan
------------------------------------------- The very definition of newbie.
Kai and Eri are kinda like fire and ice when they get into it on the boards I typically stay outta their arguements
Though I don't ever remember Erillion calling Kai a liar I have heard Kai do it several times so I tend to take Erillion's posts a tad more seriously and read them more carefully than I do Kai's... He's a bit too hot headed and Eri is a bit more level headed in his posts.
Both have valid points about the various games they post on, though so it's all good.
My point is very simple: If you have not played a game you should not comment on it. At all, end of story. Erillion has not tried Ryzom, refuses to in fact. For that reason alone he should not be commenting on Ryzom. It's the same thing he's advized dozens of people who have commented on SWG without having played it.
My point is simple: Erillion posted in a thread recommending Ryzom that 'he won't try it because it's fantasy' when in fact the game has heavy sci-fi content as well. He doesn't know that, however, becuase he hasn't even visited the official website, by his own admission. Therefore he can't have an honest opinion about the game. If he'd gone to the official site he'd know that the game isn't 100% fantasy and if he'd actually played the game he'd be surprised at how much sci-fi is involved in it.
Basic point, summed up: When one hasn't played a game one should not comment about the game. Period... end of story.
I have never made a post about a game I havent played. I intend to keep it that way. It's just a standard I feel is important if you wish to remain objective and correct in your recommendations.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by scaramoosh I don't find ryzom to be like pre CU at all :
Frankly I don't think it is either. I still say it's much more like AO Shadowlands than SWG. The only similarity is that you can choose your path and aren't level locked into a class/profession.
I do think, however, that anyone looking at moving on from SWG or just looking for something else to try should give Ryzom a serious look. I think that most people who enjoy the freedom of SWG would probably enjoy Ryzom as well. But it isn't the same at all.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Elnator Basic point, summed up: When one hasn't played a game one should not comment about the game. Period... end of story.
Elnator : The above statement is YOUR opinion based on YOUR standard. (Which is perfectly reasonable to me, not that it matters).
Erillion's opinion is that the game is more fantasy than sci-fi, and that it is not for him based on looking at screenshots and watching someone else play. (his words)
Regardless of anything anyone else may have said in the past, (which in this particular thread is competely immaterial), I would like you to explain to me why youropinion supercedes someone elses.
And again, just to make myself perfectly clear, I happen to agree with you and Kai on your opinion of the game. But again, that is immaterial to this particular subject. I am also not trying to be devisive. I am simply trying to understand how you justify some of your comments.
- Rylaan
PS - and completely and totally unrelated... I have some questions about EVE Online I would like to ask you sometime, if you are willing to educate me a bit. (Perhaps I could PM you with them?)
------------------------------------------- The very definition of newbie.
Opinion or not, it is generally not welcome to comment on something you are not educated about. Its ignorance. I grow tired off looking at current ratings on some of the MMO's as I frequently read "I havent played this game, but it looks stupid". Those were may not have been used, but if you have absolutely no experience, or you are not educated on the topic what-so-ever your opinion should not come in to play as it is not relevant. Its a game we are discussing. When dealing with games and the content with in that game, you cannot comment on something you have not seen. It renders your comment/opinion moot.
Originally posted by Elnator He doesn't know that, however, becuase he hasn't even visited the official website, by his own admission. Incorrect. Maybe you mean this quote : >>>>>which genre is Ryzom listed in here on mmorpg.com ? <<<< >>>> to click over to that page <<<<< the page I am refering to is the Game List page of mmorpg.com , not the official Ryzom webpage (which i DID check out of course). On the mmorpg page Ryzom is listed as fantasy .. and i PERSONALLY agree with that from what I have seen. Not a general assesment, but my personal opinion (if I keep stressing that, maybe some people will not overlook it again :-) Therefore he can't have an honest opinion about the game. Everyone can have an opinion :-) If that opinion has any connection with objective facts , that is debatable :-) If he'd gone to the official site I did. he'd know that the game isn't 100% fantasy I knew. and if he'd actually played the game he'd be surprised at how much sci-fi is involved in it. I did not play the game myself, just watched someone play (at around intermediate level). For me personally it did not "click" ... it did not draw me into the game like EVE or SWG does. The sci-fi elements were ... limited. Basic point, summed up: When one hasn't played a game one should not comment about the game. Period... end of story. I said its not the right game for me. I quoted a fact (thats its listed as fantasy here on this page). I have never made a post about a game I havent played. I intend to keep it that way. It's just a standard I feel is important if you wish to remain objective and correct in your recommendations. Err, even if you dont GIVE any recommendations and only express your opinion ? In the SWG forum (I would not post in the Ryzom forum, but HERE ?!) ?! As the topic is "Try Ryzom" .... and my opinion was "seen it, wont try it, maybe its a good game, but not for me". Have fun Erillion
Opinion or not, it is generally not welcome to comment on something you are not educated about. Its ignorance. I grow tired off looking at current ratings on some of the MMO's as I frequently read "I havent played this game, but it looks stupid".
I happen to (in general) agree with you. However, Erillion did not say anything even REMOTELY close to this, therefore this part of your post is not exactly in-line with the topic at hand.
Those were may not have been used, but if you have absolutely no experience, or you are not educated on the topic what-so-ever your opinion should not come in to play as it is not relevant.
One of the worst arguments I have ever heard in my life. Whether or not you agree with someone's opinion is up to you and the people who read through the threads. But to EVER call someone's opinion "not relevant" is not only demeaning, but borderline absurd.
Its a game we are discussing. When dealing with games and the content with in that game, you cannot comment on something you have not seen. It renders your comment/opinion moot.
Of course you can comment, if your comments are expressed in a personal way. Which Erillion absolutely did. Remember, whether or not he is right or wrong based on his knowledge, or lack thereof, it immaterial. His right to give his thoughts about WHAT HE THINKS are 100% acceptable... always. As are mine, as are yours, as is everybodies. And for the last time: He had seen the game.
edited by me for clarity. still getting used to the editor. Sorry. [rylaan]
------------------------------------------- The very definition of newbie.
Erillion has a history of lashing out at folks who post about SWG (here and in forums NOT for SWG) who haven't TRIED the game. Erillion I could go digging for your posts but I don't do that, as you well know. And you know damn well that multiple times you've told people to refrain from posting about various games when they haven't tried it.
In fact on this very forum, not too terribly long ago, someone said they didn't want to try SWG because it looked/sounded like they wouldn't enjoy it and you said something like "If you haven't tried it, how would you know?"
I'm not saying you don't have an opinion and I'm not trying to force you to play the game. I'm just saying that Kai had a point. You posted saying the game isn't for you when you've admittedly never even tried the free trial. Something you've criticized others for doing in the past. Kai has a point. He's a bit err.... heated... about it... but it IS a valid point.
You have not tried the game. Therefore you cannot *know* if it is for you or not. You don't "think" it is. Which is fine. But when Kai pointed out that you can't know and can't claim it's not sci-fi enough when you haven't even played it you went off on him. Unfair and uncalled for. He merely used your own arguement, which you've used on others in the past, against you.
I don't think you should try Ryzom if you dn't want to. If you don't WANT to try something that's fine. But to say it's not very 'sci fi' and it's more 'fantasy' without having ever played the game is just silly. Personally I find EVE to be very much more SCI-Fi than SWG is, in it's gameplay. But that doesn't mean I like SWG less than EVE (I actually liked SWG better... much much better). So who's to say that even though Ryzom is a bit less "sci fi" than SWG that someone who enjoys SWG wouldn't like it?
Your EXACT post, if you want to debate it, was this:
Originally posted by Erillion GREAT ! Its also fantasy - a genre I personally dont have an interest in. And in the fantasy genre there is a plethora of other great games, live or in development. So we Sci-Fi freaks stay with our buggy Sci-Fi games have fun Erillion
Your post is based 100%, according to this post, on the 'category' the game has been placed in. It's a hybrid game which combines aspects of fantasy and sci fi, much like AO does. And you then went on to say "we sci-fi freaks stay with our buggy sci-fi games" which is untrue and has you speaking for others. My initial reply was based upon this because *I* am a 'sci fi freak' myself. But I gave Ryzom a try and actually really enjoy it. Enough that I am going to purchase it and play. I also don't consider SWG a particularly "buggy" game. I've played plenty of MMO's that have as many, or more, or WORSE, bugs. I think SWG is a badly managed product. Which is a whole different story.
You guys can flame me all you want. I'm not the one making statements that aren't based on fact here. Erillion is generally agreat guy and is a very solid person and someone I respect on these boards. But this post was incorrect and violated his OWN standard of "not commenting on a game if you haven't tried it".
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Aahh, I would be interested in seeing this history of "lashing out at folks" !
>>>
Erillion I could go digging for your posts but I don't do that
>>>
too bad.
>>>
And you know damn well that multiple times you've told people to refrain from posting about various games when they haven't tried it.
>>>
>>>
Something you've criticized others for doing in the past
>>>
I have spoken out against "flamers" that have condemned SWG as a crappy game without - by their own admission - having played it.
This is a different situation than we have here with Ryzom, where I for sure have not claimed that Ryzom is a bad game.
Big difference.
>>>>
But when Kai pointed out that you can't know and can't claim it's not sci-fi enough when you haven't even played it you went off on him.
Unfair and uncalled for.
>>>>
I "went off on him" ? How so ? I answer his "The community in SoR is too mature for you." with my "Thank you for your most insightful comment".
and a request that he tell me please how Ryzom is listed here on this website ... genre fantasy or sci fi. Please show me where i was unfair.
>>>>
He merely used your own arguement, which you've used on others in the past, against you.
>>>>
Really ? He has spoken out for Ryzom because I colourfully have declared it a crappy unplayable game with maybe 50 k active subscribers ? Are we really talking about the "same arguments" here ? Those were some of the arguments used by the "flamers" mentioned above.
>>>>
But to say it's not very 'sci fi' and it's more 'fantasy' without having ever played the game is just silly.
>>>>
No. PERSONAL opinions are never "silly". Everyone sees the world differently, as an individual. Thankfully.
>>>>So we Sci-Fi freaks stay with our buggy Sci-Fi games <<<<
This was an overgeneralization , thats true. Or I have started to use "we" as the pluralis maiestetis (which would be a bad sign :-)
Should have written "So Sci-Fi freaks like me will stay ... " :-) to bring across what I was trying to say.
>>>
I think SWG is a badly managed product.
>>>
Who does not ? :-)
>>>>
But this post was incorrect
>>>>
In one sentence, yes. The rest reflects my personal opinion and this has not changed. The comparison with my posts vs "flamers" that have not played SWG is IMHO an incorrect comparison.
Rylann, I appreciate your maturity in responding to me. You handle yourself much better than I on forums. However, I do disagree with you on one quibble. For example, If I call you a chick-flick loving, pee drinking wussy, thats my opinion (which its not!). However, it is not relevant as I know nothing about you what-so-ever. If I had met you once, sure I could give a first impression, then that would be a valid opinion. However, seeing as I have no knowledge of you as a human being I fail to see how it applies.
You know, in my opinion, space has enough oxygen for a human to breathe, its also not as cold as people say. (that is an opinion that is rendered moot as Id have no clue as I have no experience with space)
When debating or having a discussion, or even when researching, a logical person would disregard all non-pertinent info that isnt based on fact. If seeking opinions, that same person would disregard someone's opinion that has never dealt with whatever topic. Otherwise, you end up with something based on fiction and never discover the reality of the topic at hand. For instance, every single person in japan is short, that is my opinion (i have no opinion here). But if you wanted to actually know, youd have to ask someone that went/knows. Opinions that are made up based on nothing lead to anger. Look what it does here, hell, it even leads to racism in real world topics.
Also, Erillion did say something close to "I havent played this but it sucks". His comments may not hinder the game, but regardless he has made an observation about the content of the game when he has not played. Therefore potentially misleading people into having the wrong general idea of what the game is about.
It would be different if an opinion was made on the graphics, or if it was worded "It looks like its a fantasy game". Backing it up with "proof" (without play) after you have already been corrected by actual people who play the game is ignorance.
Personally, I think this discussion has gone to far, and I didnt help by contributing to it, but I am going to none the less.
Originally posted by madazz Rylann, I appreciate your maturity in responding to me. You handle yourself much better than I on forums. I wouldn't be so sure about that. Perhaps I am having a good week. However, I do disagree with you on one quibble. For example, If I call you a chick-flick loving, pee drinking wussy, thats my opinion (which its not!). However, it is not relevant as I know nothing about you what-so-ever. If I had met you once, sure I could give a first impression, then that would be a valid opinion. However, seeing as I have no knowledge of you as a human being I fail to see how it applies. You know, in my opinion, space has enough oxygen for a human to breathe, its also not as cold as people say. (that is an opinion that is rendered moot as Id have no clue as I have no experience with space)
Ok. See, you are sort of going to a bad place here. You are using outside examples to attempt to illustrate your point. This is not in-line with this particular discussion. The reason is because I could site examples that would make you retract your statements, and round-and-round we would go. So let us skip to the next part of your post. (I hope you don't want to test me on this, but if you do, I will reluctantly ablige, and we will go even further off tangent, if that is even possible. I will give you a small example of this below as I reply to your next statement.) When debating or having a discussion, or even when researching, a logical person would disregard all non-pertinent info that isnt based on fact. Good Lord, I hope not! I don't know if I could possibly disagree more with this statement. In the 1400's it was a fact that the Earth was flat. In the 1500's Galileo and Copernicus had this crazy opinion that the Earth rotated on it's own axis and actually orbited the sun. Talk about an absurd thought!! This was directly opposed to what was considered fact and the teachings of Aristotle and Ptolemy. How did Galileo come to these wild and crazy opinions? He looked at a "screenshot" through a telescope. In the 1900's, it was a medical fact that the tonsils and appendix had absolutely no useful function to the human body whatsoever. [I belabor the point here obviously, but I so strongly disagree with your statement, I hope you forgive my extracted response. Trust me, I could go on and on and on.] If seeking opinions, that same person would disregard someone's opinion that has never dealt with whatever topic. Otherwise, you end up with something based on fiction and never discover the reality of the topic at hand. For instance, every single person in japan is short, that is my opinion (i have no opinion here). But if you wanted to actually know, youd have to ask someone that went/knows. Opinions that are made up based on nothing lead to anger. Look what it does here, hell, it even leads to racism in real world topics. But that is exactly the point. Of course that is not your opinion regarding people in Japan, because you know it isn't true. In Erillion's case, it WAS his opinion, because he did NOT know for sure. From his experience, which in this particular case was 1. Looking at screenshots and 2. watching someone play; the game was more fantasy than sci-fi. Perfectly and completely valid. I think you are confusing "an educated opinion" with "an opinion". They are different, and your example perfectly illustrates that. However inept the opinion may be, it is still valid and allowed (not invalid and moot). Please don't tell me you are going to argue THAT point? Also, Erillion did say something close to "I havent played this but it sucks". His comments may not hinder the game, but regardless he has made an observation about the content of the game when he has not played. Therefore potentially misleading people into having the wrong general idea of what the game is about. I respectfully suggest you go back and re-read his initial comments. You certainly have every right to interpret it the way you did. However, I have looked it over numerous times, and honestly think you guys are grasping at straws in order to keep your "side" of the argument going here. It would be different if an opinion was made on the graphics, or if it was worded "It looks like its a fantasy game". Backing it up with "proof" (without play) after you have already been corrected by actual people who play the game is ignorance. I honestly am not trying to become redundant here, but I need to ask again: How can someone's OPINION be "corrected"? To correct an opinion would mean that the opinion is wrong. Which by its very definition is not possible. "A belief or conclusion not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof" Personally, I think this discussion has gone to far, and I didnt help by contributing to it, but I am going to none the less. I disagree again. Of course you helped. You contributed your thoughts and expressed your ideas. I realize there are readers out there who feel what we are debating is silly. But how many other people do you think have been following this thread, taking either one side or the other, and are unwilling to step in and voice their thoughts (even though they would love to) for fear of being proved wrong? I happen to disagree with you strongly, but I respect and appreciate your willingness to contribute. Have a good one. Same to you.
------------------------------------------- The very definition of newbie.
Erillion has a history of lashing out at folks who post about SWG (here and in forums NOT for SWG) who haven't TRIED the game....
Elnator - I am assuming your post is directed at both Erillion and I, although I can't really tell. But I'm sure you don't feel like reading through response after response from me, so I will be brief.
You have not tried the game. Therefore you cannot *know* if it is for you or not. You don't "think" it is. Which is fine. But when Kai pointed out that you can't know and can't claim it's not sci-fi enough when you haven't even played it you went off on him. Unfair and uncalled for....
(1) Erillion can "claim" anything he wants to claim. Unless I missed something here, and personal opinions based on observations are no longer allowed on this forum. If that is the case, we are all in big trouble. (2) I am curious to know your definition of "going off" on someone. Honestly, please re-read Erillion's and Kai's posts again and tell me which you think would truly be considered "unfair and uncalled for".
You guys can flame me all you want. I'm not the one making statements that aren't based on fact here.
I am not sure if this was directed at me or not. But let me be the first to apologize to you publicly if I have in any way, shape, or form "flamed" you in the past or given you reason to think I would "flame" you in the future. I respect and appreciate your comments as a fellow community member.
I am simply looking for an answer to my other question. Why does your personal opinion(of who can and can not express comments on a game)supercede someone else's personal opinion(of what sub-genre a game is, and if it seems to be a good fit for them) ?
- Rylaan
------------------------------------------- The very definition of newbie.
Originally posted by Rylaan Originally posted by Elnator Sorry but I dissagree. Erillion has a history of lashing out at folks who post about SWG (here and in forums NOT for SWG) who haven't TRIED the game.... Elnator - I am assuming your post is directed at both Erillion and I, although I can't really tell. But I'm sure you don't feel like reading through response after response from me, so I will be brief. You have not tried the game. Therefore you cannot *know* if it is for you or not. You don't "think" it is. Which is fine. But when Kai pointed out that you can't know and can't claim it's not sci-fi enough when you haven't even played it you went off on him. Unfair and uncalled for.... (1) Erillion can "claim" anything he wants to claim. Unless I missed something here, and personal opinions based on observations are no longer allowed on this forum. If that is the case, we are all in big trouble. (2) I am curious to know your definition of "going off" on someone. Honestly, please re-read Erillion's and Kai's posts again and tell me which you think would truly be considered "unfair and uncalled for". You guys can flame me all you want. I'm not the one making statements that aren't based on fact here. I am not sure if this was directed at me or not. But let me be the first to apologize to you publicly if I have in any way, shape, or form "flamed" you in the past or given you reason to think I would "flame" you in the future. I respect and appreciate your comments as a fellow community member. I am simply looking for an answer to my other question. Why does your personal opinion (of who can and can not express comments on a game) supercede someone else's personal opinion (of what sub-genre a game is, and if it seems to be a good fit for them) ? - Rylaan
Not worth discussing anymore. I agree with Eri's previous post to this one for the most part. And frankly I'm tired of arguing on a damn message board
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Comments
Thanks for the example. I spent alot of my time in game just travelling and neglected to pay attention to the mobs! Not a good survival tactic. I have seen that in other games too though, but I cant remember which. Ill update post later if I remember.
Also, I gotta say, though the water isnt very interactive, its still really nice to look at. I like the details like fish swimming around. The weather is just awesome too.
To go back on topic, I truly feel that someone who enjoys SWG will enjoy SoR. Both Pre CU and Post CU. The skill based system is fantastic, altering your spells and abilities is awesome and adds an extra element to the game. The graphics are much nicer, they also look nicer on lower end systems then SWG would on a higher end system. Thats mostly because the style of graphics I think, ie; WoW.
Also, PvP is going be to be expanded on substantially. But it wont ruin the game for those who dont want to PvP, much like SWG. I also havent been added on to any mailing lists due to needing a credit card. Not one advertisement in my e-mail or mail. I recommend starting the 2 week trial, cancel it right after, if you dont like it you can uninstall and forget about it.
I did. Thank you for your most insightful comment.
One little request : which genre is Ryzom listed in here on mmorpg.com ? I am too immature and lazy to click over to that page and read - please help me here !
Have fun
Erillion
That is your proof? Because a site had to pick between sci fi or fantasy you automatically assume its one or the other? So I guess I am the moron and only imagined the rifles, pistols, alien invasion, etc in SoR right? Oh no wait I actually played the bloody game and know. You didnt. So you know squat.
You wouldnt enjoy SoR anyway. It actually has few bugs for you to lie about or justify and SoR has something called content. I doubt you could handle it. Your head would probably explode.
Have fun paying to play in a buggy commercial
Kai
Look, I don't care about SOR or what it is classified as. What I do care about is the fact that you have accused erillion of lying and attempting to justify the grocery list of bugs and missing content that SWG has. He's usually the first to point out the flaws and last to outright ignore anything. This ceased to be a debate when you got childish. Now it's the start of a lovely little thing we call a flame war.
On a brighter note, SoR sounds good from what I read. Interesting story. Interesting skill system. But the FREE trial still requires a fucking credit card and a one dollar transaction. EVE doesn't do this, why should SoR?
Erillion you're doing exactly what you accuse others of doing.
Don't judge Ryzom unless you've tried it. It's *not* fantasy... at least not purely. There's a lot of Sci-Fi in it too... it's actually an interesting mix of the two.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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Still in: A couple Betas
Erillion you're doing exactly what you accuse others of doing.
Don't judge Ryzom unless you've tried it. It's *not* fantasy... at least not purely. There's a lot of Sci-Fi in it too... it's actually an interesting mix of the two.
I dont think you will find any criticism of Ryzom in my posts. I looked at the screenshots, I watched someone play. IMHO its primarily fantasy (a purely personal opinion) and mmorpg.com seems to have the same opinion . So I dont "judge" Ryzom ... I even call it great that someone has fun playing it. It is just not something for me.
The fantasy genre is older than the Sci-Fi genre and has more mature, less buggy games IMHO. Sci-Fi games (like SWG and EVE) in general seem to have more bugs than fantasy games. So a Sci-Fi fan like me has learned to live with that.
Have fun
Erillion
Just letting you know that, as a "Sci fi freak" myself I've found Ryzom to be a solid experience that rivals the fun I had in SWG before I got fed up with the devs. It is a nice game and certainly isn't your typical "Fantasy" MMO. It's got a lot more Sci Fi to it than people realize.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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Still in: A couple Betas
I was in beta for this game and have signed up for the trial period twice. Once being this week, since some good things are now being said about it. I'm going to be honest and say I found the contents of this thread hard to believe, given how bad it was in beta and not so long ago.
Overall I'm still not very impressed with it. I'm still going to give it a go until the end of the trail period, although so far I find it (the newbie area) compelty soleless and hate the ui (to cluttered). Its also not Sci-Fi enough, for my taste. Yes its a blend, but you can't avoid (at least early on) that its has one foot longer than the other, that being firmly placed in fantasy. Why can't we have a Sci-Fi mmorpg that doesn't having you kill critters?
Will reassess once I get out of newbieville.
That about sums up my first impression (from watching someone play and checking out pictures here and on other websites). Contrary to "EVE" and "SWG" it did not "click" into place as a game I would like to try for a longer period. The same happened when I checked out EQ and EQ2 and GW. CoH and WoW was fun, but only for a short period. Ultima .. well ...
... but I like the single player game more than the multiplayer.
"Tabula Rasa" sounds like an interesting Sci-Fi/Fantasy blend ... and truth be told, I am an old Lord British fan.
From the fantasy genre, "Age of Conan" looks promising (guess I will need a new computer for that one :-). "D&D" I will check out AFTER the initial release .. I think this one will need some time to get into gear. "Vanguard" and "Dark and Light" .. lots of hype and press, but again .. no "click" here. Maybe the have free trials. "Pirates" ... even if its not fantasy .. may actually be a ton of fun. We will see how they implement it and if they can capture the SidMeierish-feeling. "Warhammer" and "LOTR" would usually be favorites of mine, but I consider them wait and see (lot of potential, but not as well implemented as it could be , a bit like SWG) . Same for "Star Trek" (back to the few real Sci-Fi games in planning) - many interesting ideas, but it does not sound very Trekish so far.
Have fun
Erillion
I'd like to comment on that Erillion.
A while back, one of my people loaded up Farcry for me to take a look at, as we are planning an FPS in the future. This game is considered the best of the FPS genre by many.
I was not impressed. I mean it looked OKAY, seemed to run smooth even on his laptop, but big deal. A shooter.
It wasn't until just recently that I loaded up the game and played it myself. It is still considered the best of the FPS genre. NOW I know why. I could improve on the game with many ideas, but they have a perfectly working and fun product on their hands that has stood the test of time.
The same goes for MMOs. People look, say, "I don't like it's look" and then never consider a game that they would likely enjoy a great deal anyway.
It goes with the idea that "Looks Sell" and in this industry, graphics is the big seller. That said, SWG should have a LOT more in the way of returning customers, but they don't. They get drawn in, and they see the great graphics, and isn't that neat. But after a little while, they are not nearly as impressed with the game as its GAMEPLAY comes home to haunt them. By that time, graphics means nothing. The look has worn off.
That's why I recommend people play the danged thing before commenting.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
God knows I don't often agree with Wepps but he's got a point here. If I hadn't tried Ryzom I wouldn't have liked it either. I'd have dismissed it as "just another fantasy MMO". But it's not. It's got a lot to offer. It's not the greatest game since sliced bread but it does appear to be bug free, a nice blend of fantasy and sci-fi (once you get past the first blush) and a really nice skill / level system blend as well. (Like I said, reminds me very much of AO in many ways).
Whoever said this is like SWG pre CU really doesn't have it quite right but if you like SWG odds are you'll probably enjoy SOR as well. I also hafta say that killing critters to get xp/skill/levels in Ryzom makes a lot more sense to me than it ever did in SWG. One of my biggest irritants in SWG is the reliance on killing "monsters" to "level/skill" up in the game. I never watched the movies and thought to myself "ya know, I'd really love to be in that Galaxy Far Far away so I can shoot at taun taun's all day".
In any case, it's a free trial so for me it was worth trying. Especially since the Devs finally managed to chase me away from SWG a while back.
Don't get me wrong... I haven't played it nearly long enough to say it's "The game" or "a great game" but it is a solid game that's been fun while I've been trying it out. I haven't found a dungeon or cave yet though so that does have me a bit concerned. If all there is in Ryzom is 'above ground' adventures I'll probably grow tired of it fairly quickly. But for now it's interesting enough to warrant being installed on my system. And it's free so there's no reason not to try it
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
OK. I shouldn't post this to take this topic even further into the flames, but I can't resist.
What the heck did Erillion post that was worth the responses he got from you Kai? I have been scanning these boards for about 6 weeks now, and those were the most uncalled for responses I have seen yet - far and away.
The guy thinks the game is fantasy. To him - it's fantasy. Big freakin' deal. Is he really that far off the mark? There are maces, axes, swords, and shields for crying out loud. Sure, those of us who play Ryzom know there is more to it to than that, but you gotta be kidding me with your responses!
His point was the game was not for him. He did not bash it, he did not critique it, he did not flame it. He pointed out it wasn't for him "personally" because he likes Sci-Fi games. Heaven forbid he posts his thoughts and opinions!!!! You would think this is a message board or something!!!! Quick - a forum where people post their thoughts - run for cover!
I am (as of now anyway) a big SWG and Ryzom supporter. No hidden agenda in this post. But saying Erillion is too immature to belong to the Ryzom community is probably the most bizarre thing you wrote. I actually think he would enjoy Ryzom much more than he thinks for the very reason that he would fit in perfectly.
The fact of the matter is, this is the first time I have ever responded to a post such as this, mostly because I view them as petty and a waste of time. But I think you should really consider apologizing for your initial two responses. Perhaps read his post again and then read yours. Just my 2 cents - which I realize is worth about that.
And to cut everyone off at the pass- No, I don't think I'm the forum police. I am a member of this community that happens to seriously dislike unsolicited responses like that. And please, if I am missing something here, feel free to clue me in. I realize I am new.
- Rylaan
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The very definition of newbie.
If he had tried the trial and then said he didnt like it then I would have no problem. But to say he doesnt like a game because he saw it was listed under "Fantasy" on a third party site? If you spend even 2 minutes on the main site you can see the game is as much sci fi, if not more.
Fact is I gave him less then the treatment he gives me. If I say even one thing 100% truthful but also negative about SWG he will be there to either contradict me or even call me an outright liar. He insults us with every fanboi post by insulting our intelligence.
I wish SWG was the game he makes it out to be. The game would have 10 million players if it was even half as good as he builds it up to be. I would almost recommend that SOE and LA hire Eri to sell the game. It would sell billions of copies. But I said almost. Because once they saw the game for what it really was they would probably hunt Eri down to burn him at the stake.
I am not apologizing. He has said far worse to me in the past. Turn about is fair play. I respect him for loving a buggy game so much and having the fortitude to stick with such a pile of trash as SWG. But I also know the truth about SWG and the fanbois. Because I used to be him. Identical in everyway.
Kai
@ Kai - Fine. There is obviously alot of history here that I am totally in the dark about. So I will bow out of whatever is going on there.
Now regarding Ryzom : I have played quite a bit more over the past few days, and continue to like the game alot. My biggest hangup is without question the combat. It seems "fast". Monsters hit pretty big. I have had lengthy discussions with guids and guildmasters online, and they assure me it gets better the further in you get. The problem is, these people work for a company that has been prohibited to speak about ANY specifics regarding gameplay. In a way, I like that. It leaves lots for the player to discover on their own. On the other hand, it means devoting more time "waiting and hoping" for certain things to get better, and not knowing for sure if they will. The missions are sort of different too, for anyone thinking of trying it. I guess they really aren't any different than other games, but they seem.... I don't know, maybe someone else can explain it better.
The community is starting to see an influx of players for sure, albeit very small numbers compared to the heavy hitters (WoW, EQ II, CoH). There is so much to look forward to in the game of Ryzom, it's hard to stop playing at times. I'm not sure a 14 day trial will be enough to end up giving it an accurate review when it ends though.
- Rylaan
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The very definition of newbie.
Kai and Eri are kinda like fire and ice when they get into it on the boards
I typically stay outta their arguements 
Though I don't ever remember Erillion calling Kai a liar I have heard Kai do it several times so I tend to take Erillion's posts a tad more seriously and read them more carefully than I do Kai's... He's a bit too hot headed and Eri is a bit more level headed in his posts.
Both have valid points about the various games they post on, though so it's all good.
My point is very simple:
If you have not played a game you should not comment on it. At all, end of story. Erillion has not tried Ryzom, refuses to in fact. For that reason alone he should not be commenting on Ryzom. It's the same thing he's advized dozens of people who have commented on SWG without having played it.
My point is simple:
Erillion posted in a thread recommending Ryzom that 'he won't try it because it's fantasy' when in fact the game has heavy sci-fi content as well. He doesn't know that, however, becuase he hasn't even visited the official website, by his own admission. Therefore he can't have an honest opinion about the game. If he'd gone to the official site he'd know that the game isn't 100% fantasy and if he'd actually played the game he'd be surprised at how much sci-fi is involved in it.
Basic point, summed up:
When one hasn't played a game one should not comment about the game. Period... end of story.
I have never made a post about a game I havent played. I intend to keep it that way. It's just a standard I feel is important if you wish to remain objective and correct in your recommendations.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
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Don't click here...no2
Frankly I don't think it is either. I still say it's much more like AO Shadowlands than SWG. The only similarity is that you can choose your path and aren't level locked into a class/profession.
I do think, however, that anyone looking at moving on from SWG or just looking for something else to try should give Ryzom a serious look. I think that most people who enjoy the freedom of SWG would probably enjoy Ryzom as well. But it isn't the same at all.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Elnator : The above statement is YOUR opinion based on YOUR standard. (Which is perfectly reasonable to me, not that it matters).
Erillion's opinion is that the game is more fantasy than sci-fi, and that it is not for him based on looking at screenshots and watching someone else play. (his words)
Regardless of anything anyone else may have said in the past, (which in this particular thread is competely immaterial), I would like you to explain to me why your opinion supercedes someone elses.
And again, just to make myself perfectly clear, I happen to agree with you and Kai on your opinion of the game. But again, that is immaterial to this particular subject. I am also not trying to be devisive. I am simply trying to understand how you justify some of your comments.
- Rylaan
PS - and completely and totally unrelated... I have some questions about EVE Online I would like to ask you sometime, if you are willing to educate me a bit. (Perhaps I could PM you with them?)
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The very definition of newbie.
Originally posted by madazz
Opinion or not, it is generally not welcome to comment on something you are not educated about. Its ignorance. I grow tired off looking at current ratings on some of the MMO's as I frequently read "I havent played this game, but it looks stupid".
I happen to (in general) agree with you. However, Erillion did not say anything even REMOTELY close to this, therefore this part of your post is not exactly in-line with the topic at hand.
Those were may not have been used, but if you have absolutely no experience, or you are not educated on the topic what-so-ever your opinion should not come in to play as it is not relevant.
One of the worst arguments I have ever heard in my life. Whether or not you agree with someone's opinion is up to you and the people who read through the threads. But to EVER call someone's opinion "not relevant" is not only demeaning, but borderline absurd.
Its a game we are discussing. When dealing with games and the content with in that game, you cannot comment on something you have not seen. It renders your comment/opinion moot.
Of course you can comment, if your comments are expressed in a personal way. Which Erillion absolutely did. Remember, whether or not he is right or wrong based on his knowledge, or lack thereof, it immaterial. His right to give his thoughts about WHAT HE THINKS are 100% acceptable... always. As are mine, as are yours, as is everybodies. And for the last time: He had seen the game.
edited by me for clarity. still getting used to the editor. Sorry. [rylaan]
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The very definition of newbie.
Sorry but I dissagree.
Erillion has a history of lashing out at folks who post about SWG (here and in forums NOT for SWG) who haven't TRIED the game. Erillion I could go digging for your posts but I don't do that, as you well know. And you know damn well that multiple times you've told people to refrain from posting about various games when they haven't tried it.
In fact on this very forum, not too terribly long ago, someone said they didn't want to try SWG because it looked/sounded like they wouldn't enjoy it and you said something like "If you haven't tried it, how would you know?"
I'm not saying you don't have an opinion and I'm not trying to force you to play the game. I'm just saying that Kai had a point. You posted saying the game isn't for you when you've admittedly never even tried the free trial. Something you've criticized others for doing in the past. Kai has a point. He's a bit err.... heated... about it... but it IS a valid point.
You have not tried the game. Therefore you cannot *know* if it is for you or not. You don't "think" it is. Which is fine. But when Kai pointed out that you can't know and can't claim it's not sci-fi enough when you haven't even played it you went off on him. Unfair and uncalled for. He merely used your own arguement, which you've used on others in the past, against you.
I don't think you should try Ryzom if you dn't want to. If you don't WANT to try something that's fine. But to say it's not very 'sci fi' and it's more 'fantasy' without having ever played the game is just silly. Personally I find EVE to be very much more SCI-Fi than SWG is, in it's gameplay. But that doesn't mean I like SWG less than EVE (I actually liked SWG better... much much better). So who's to say that even though Ryzom is a bit less "sci fi" than SWG that someone who enjoys SWG wouldn't like it?
Your EXACT post, if you want to debate it, was this:
Your post is based 100%, according to this post, on the 'category' the game has been placed in. It's a hybrid game which combines aspects of fantasy and sci fi, much like AO does. And you then went on to say "we sci-fi freaks stay with our buggy sci-fi games" which is untrue and has you speaking for others. My initial reply was based upon this because *I* am a 'sci fi freak' myself. But I gave Ryzom a try and actually really enjoy it. Enough that I am going to purchase it and play. I also don't consider SWG a particularly "buggy" game. I've played plenty of MMO's that have as many, or more, or WORSE, bugs. I think SWG is a badly managed product. Which is a whole different story.
You guys can flame me all you want. I'm not the one making statements that aren't based on fact here. Erillion is generally agreat guy and is a very solid person and someone I respect on these boards. But this post was incorrect and violated his OWN standard of "not commenting on a game if you haven't tried it".
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
>>>
Erillion has a history of lashing out at folks
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Aahh, I would be interested in seeing this history of "lashing out at folks" !
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Erillion I could go digging for your posts but I don't do that
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too bad.
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And you know damn well that multiple times you've told people to refrain from posting about various games when they haven't tried it.
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Something you've criticized others for doing in the past
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I have spoken out against "flamers" that have condemned SWG as a crappy game without - by their own admission - having played it.
This is a different situation than we have here with Ryzom, where I for sure have not claimed that Ryzom is a bad game.
Big difference.
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But when Kai pointed out that you can't know and can't claim it's not sci-fi enough when you haven't even played it you went off on him.
Unfair and uncalled for.
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I "went off on him" ? How so ? I answer his "The community in SoR is too mature for you." with my "Thank you for your most insightful comment".
and a request that he tell me please how Ryzom is listed here on this website ... genre fantasy or sci fi. Please show me where i was unfair.
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He merely used your own arguement, which you've used on others in the past, against you.
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Really ? He has spoken out for Ryzom because I colourfully have declared it a crappy unplayable game with maybe 50 k active subscribers ? Are we really talking about the "same arguments" here ? Those were some of the arguments used by the "flamers" mentioned above.
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But to say it's not very 'sci fi' and it's more 'fantasy' without having ever played the game is just silly.
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No. PERSONAL opinions are never "silly". Everyone sees the world differently, as an individual. Thankfully.
>>>>So we Sci-Fi freaks stay with our buggy Sci-Fi games <<<<
This was an overgeneralization , thats true. Or I have started to use "we" as the pluralis maiestetis (which would be a bad sign :-)
Should have written "So Sci-Fi freaks like me will stay ... " :-) to bring across what I was trying to say.
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I think SWG is a badly managed product.
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Who does not ? :-)
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But this post was incorrect
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In one sentence, yes. The rest reflects my personal opinion and this has not changed. The comparison with my posts vs "flamers" that have not played SWG is IMHO an incorrect comparison.
Have fun
Erillion
Rylann, I appreciate your maturity in responding to me. You handle yourself much better than I on forums. However, I do disagree with you on one quibble. For example, If I call you a chick-flick loving, pee drinking wussy, thats my opinion (which its not!). However, it is not relevant as I know nothing about you what-so-ever. If I had met you once, sure I could give a first impression, then that would be a valid opinion. However, seeing as I have no knowledge of you as a human being I fail to see how it applies.
You know, in my opinion, space has enough oxygen for a human to breathe, its also not as cold as people say. (that is an opinion that is rendered moot as Id have no clue as I have no experience with space)
When debating or having a discussion, or even when researching, a logical person would disregard all non-pertinent info that isnt based on fact. If seeking opinions, that same person would disregard someone's opinion that has never dealt with whatever topic. Otherwise, you end up with something based on fiction and never discover the reality of the topic at hand. For instance, every single person in japan is short, that is my opinion (i have no opinion here). But if you wanted to actually know, youd have to ask someone that went/knows. Opinions that are made up based on nothing lead to anger. Look what it does here, hell, it even leads to racism in real world topics.
Also, Erillion did say something close to "I havent played this but it sucks". His comments may not hinder the game, but regardless he has made an observation about the content of the game when he has not played. Therefore potentially misleading people into having the wrong general idea of what the game is about.
It would be different if an opinion was made on the graphics, or if it was worded "It looks like its a fantasy game". Backing it up with "proof" (without play) after you have already been corrected by actual people who play the game is ignorance.
Personally, I think this discussion has gone to far, and I didnt help by contributing to it, but I am going to none the less.
Have a good one.
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The very definition of newbie.
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The very definition of newbie.
Not worth discussing anymore. I agree with Eri's previous post to this one for the most part. And frankly I'm tired of arguing on a damn message board
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas