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My Character Didn't Feel Like It Was Mine
Maverick827
Member Posts: 71
I've only played two of the betas (after pre-purchasing the game), but during that time there was one major problem that completely turned me off to the game: too much control was taken away from how I defined my character, and if I wanted to play the game optimally he would become unrecognizable. If you don't care about role playing (I don't even really actively role play), then you'll likely not care. I'm posting this in hopes I greatly missed the mark on some of these issues, because I would rather have not wasted $60.
The character: A cynical sellsword. Uses a sword and shield because he finds other weapons slow, ineffective, or otherwise unwieldy. Chaotic Good: mostly out for himself, but generally tends to (begrudgingly) help others in dire matters (matters of freedom, life and death, etc.). Does not use magic. He is a human.
The combination of sword and shield leaves me with Guardian and Warrior, and the restriction of no magic reduces that to just Warrior, which is fine. The title of the class is unimportant, and "Warrior" is about as generic as you can get anyway.
The first issue I ran into is that of multiple weapon sets and various weapons being good at various things. It is my understanding that if I just stick to one weapon set then I will be at a great disadvantage. While only two weapons can be equipped at a time, I am under the impression that you can swap any weapons in and out of combat. Meaning, again, that not focusing on all weapon types will leave you at a disadvantage.
I do not know exactly which weapons are good at what, but for example let's say that a two-handed sword is good at AoE damage and a one-handed sword is good at single target damage. Warrior A might run with a one-handed sword + bow setup and Warrior B might run with a two-handed sword + bow setup. If Warrior A is unwilling to switch to a two-handed sword + bow setup when beneficial and Warrior B [i]is[/i] willing to switch to a one-handed sword + bow setup, then clearly Warrior A is at a disadvantage, no?
Next, the game forces on your character (at least it did for my Human) a very Lawful Good persona, often times Stupid Good and never multidimensional. The voice acting aside (which was quite poor, at least in my opinion), the character was saying things that my character would never say. While BioWare games only really give you three choices these days, that's at least [i]something[/i]. I decided to just skip all of the cut scenes and make up my own story as I went, but it still feels like a negative.
Finally, and this isn't so much of a role playing issue but still something that bothered me visually, was that a lot of the animations felt really sluggish. Strafing in one direction and then changing to another was visually distracting to me; there was a distinct "glide" as the running animations changed, and it was very jarring for me. I'm a huge fan of "shield bash" abilities, but the shield bash ability here was lagged from me pressing the button by a noticeable amount of time. This, combined with the lack of customization and variety in physical weapon skills, made the combat very awkward and boring for me.
Does anyone have any corrections, clarifications, or agreements? Is this game just not for me?
Comments
It doesnt sound like it's for you. I'm happy to hear your perspective because a while back, on a different website, I was arguing that GW2 wasnt much of a RPers game and was more of an arcade MMO. It's good to kow I wasnt talking out of my bottom..
I actually think I agree with you on some of these things.
I don't really roleplay either, though making up a character background is kind of interesting, I'll admit.
Unfortunately, you do get stuck in a bit of a lawful good role, especially in your personal story. According to some stuff I've read, you are suppose to be able to act against some DEs, but I didn't see that in game, maybe someone will correct me. Your best bet would be to try and play as a sort of rogue good guy who avoids most major story stuff, and goes around helping people out for the rewards.
As for using sword + shield only.. yeah, you would be at a slight disadvantage, though I played one weapon set mostly all the time. There's some truth to that though - a sword+shield character would have a more defensive stance, and fewer damage abilities, so in terms of what your character 'thinks' - it may be quite in-character of him to switch to say, sword + axe from time to time. This is sort of personal preference though.
I've never had trouble with any of the animations, but maybe I've gotten used to that, so I can't comment.
The skills.. yeah, the skills are sort of limiting if you want to stick to one weapon. Well, at least the weapon skills.
I'd suggest you get to a higher level so you get more of your support skills, where you can put quite a bit of variation. There's room to customize your fighting style there without changing weapon sets.
If you're looking for immersion, more of a role playing experience, then I suggest just spending some time walking around the city. There's a few things you can do there to make you feel like you're actually your character. I spend a lot of time going through the districts of Divinity's reach, or hanging out at taverns listening to random conversations. It's really too bad that you can't do certain things, like start fist fights with some of the people.
Anyway, there's some stuff for people more into roleplaying, and the world certainly will feel more alive. But it's far from the perfect game for that, and a lot of things are still more meta-game focused than in-world focused. Still plenty of fun to play as a casual player, just may not be the holy grail you're looking for.
It sounds like what you are describing is Skyrim.
What MMO now or in the past has allowed you to do the things that you're looking for?
There's nothing wrong with wanting to play a game the way that you want to play it, but themepark MMOs, even the very good ones, are not set up for that. Developers have to make choices that may feel limiting to fit into the setting that they have created. This has even happened to ESO, like it or not.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
I'll give my perspective--huge roleplayer here, and had mixed feelings about how roleplaying would work out in GW2. After the last two beta weekends, I am absolutely psyched, as is my RP group.
I imagine that it largely comes down to perspective. When I read the title I was honestly expecting this to be a rant about the personal story, to which my response is just to ignore it or weave it into your story, it's not like any other MMO isn't going to step over RP-toes during the story. Moving on:
I really don't see what you're talking about as anything more than a minor challenge for RPers--and the right sort of challenge. In reality, different weapons are suited for different situations, and refusing to use the right weapon for the right situation is an act of either poor funding or poor thinking. With that said, it makes sense that a character who refuses to wield anything but one type of weapon would perform a bit worse. I dislike having to roleplay out the idea that someone who fights poorly is somehow still better.
That said, if it really bothers you, you can just equip...say you only want to ever wield a sword and shield. Just equip two sets of swords and shields, voila. Alternatively, just ignore it ICly.
Regarding the personality that is forced on you, I don't feel that to be entirely the case. While the personal story is rather locked in, the game in general gives you more freedom than most MMOs to give your character something of a unique personality that the game recognizes. Dignity and ferocity are the ones you're looking for, I think.
There are only so many things an MMO developer can develop content for, just don't let it bother you. Because it is quite frankly impossible for even single player games to not step on RP-toes.
Sorry to make you more upset at this game, but if you're wanting a "personal signature" style story which you handwrite your character's path through the world based on Right and Wrong decisions, then this game is not for you. This game's PvE homages back to D&D times were players are Heros that fight Dragons, save damsels, and are good guys for their cause....whatever that cause may be. Mind you that Charr are less good than say Humans, but they're still good for their Clan.
I know you're a fan of Star Wars: The Old Republic, your post screams it about decisions, Bioware, and the like. Good on you, glad to hear it. But this game is not like that game and vise versa. Where that game is good in story, it lacks exploration, it lacks world depth, lacks PvP depth, lacks crafting/economy depth, and is far too linear with only 2 starting zones and 2 major cities. Oh, and the combat is way too generic.
Guild Wars 2 may lack a bit in the create-my-story-book style of character development, but it more than makes up for it with the rest of the game. The PvP, which comes in flavors of sPvP and WvWvW, is the most deeply designed in these games in years (outside that of Darkfall, which is major hardcore).
The crafting and economy in the game is very well designed and makes so much use of player drive towards buy/sell of items. Players can make items, discover recipes, get random items made, destroy items for ingredients, and so on. Selling can be as normal as putting a posting or even filling pre-set buy orders that are for those wanting to purchase the item that you're ready to sell.
There are 5 different races, each with their own fleshed out starting zones and colossal captial cities. That right there is a step up from SW:TOR as characters have origin points, have home cities and areas that their people belong to. The cities of GW2 are so fleshed out that it's amazing that any of these could have even been conceived from the imagination of someone's head.
Combat in GW2 is also a huge step up from other games. Attacks aren't target specific and can be executed without a target: enemies within range or in the general direciton will be hit either way. This plays for both melee and ranged abilities, which is very cool. Also, with weapons playing a key role in what ability loadout the player has, and the world being filled with random map-place weapons, it's very interesting. Picking up a boulder and throwing at an enemy to knock them on their butt never gets old...
Firstly; about your Weapon choice. It's YOUR weapon choice. It's not the game's fault that you don't like two handed swords, the game isn't saying that you can't use dual swords or two handed swords, it's you saying that. You want to use a Sword, that's up to you but don't blame the game for that.
Secondly you can only use two weapon sets in combat and you can only swap to other weapon sets when out of combat.
Thirdly, you want more customization? Walk into the structure pvp area and just take a gander at your traits and just make a build. In fact, let me give you a link http://www.gw2tools.com/skills. Just pick a class, pick a weapon, set your traits around it, but that's only the beginning, there's Runes, there's amulets, there's sigils, all contributing to modifying the way you play. If you want customization, there it is.
TL;DR
I really don't think saying that the game limits you by not allowing you to do AoE damage with a single Sword is a worthy complaint. It's like complaining that your sniper rifle isn't a turret. Things are built for differen't functions in this game and it's something you'll have to deal with.
This is not a game.
Equipping two sets of the same weapon only currently works for the Thief class, because the cooldowns transfer between sets.
I do get where you are coming from. I found the characters etc. seemed less personal and like I was playing a character someone else designed. I suppose the personal story didn't help with this. . . then I was sort of sadish since I knew that likely other mesmers or necros had the same story. . we were like triplets depending on the finer points of the backstory etc.
I still like the game but something like Vanguard or Darkfall, Mortal Online, UO etc. (sandboxy) gives you more of a feeling of you being an alter ego in the world. I still like GW2 and will play it since I don't have enough time to sink into a sandbox. I guess I only have time to play someone elses story at this point (similar to SWTOR).
It is an interesting post. I had not thought much about it until I saw this.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
What I meant was equipping two different swords and shields, so you can still use skills while waiting for cooldowns.
Not the greatest solution, but I feel that if you are going to only want to play very specific ways, you should work around the game rather than the game work around you. As a roleplayer I see a lot of people demand that games cater to them, when in reality we're the minority and we should act like it (oh god that sounded a bit terrible).
I agree regarding personal story, its the only big disappointment I've had with GW2.
As to your other points however; I've tried to clarify above.
You obviously missed the point of D&D. A person could roll whatever they imagined as the system supported the whole spectrum of alignments.
I agree with the OP. This game doesn't really have the mechanics for great RP. It really is the ultimate arcade themepark complete with actiony combat. Whether that is a good thing or not depends on one's tastes.
I agree with pretty much every thing you said.
The absolute worst thing I dislike about GW2 is its rigid class/weapon structures. If I want to play a Hybrid Melee/Magic character with specific weapon setup then I should be able too. GW2 gives you so much freedom in picking your utility spells I do not understand for the life of me why they would revert from the GW1 model of letting you also pick your skills and weapons too. Dislike it greatly and its one of the main things I love about TSW. I get to pick my weapon and my skills to go with it. Anyway I dislike class based games which is dubious because GW2 is doing away with trinity specific roles but yet still sticking to idealogical classes.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
From what it sounds like it's working as intended. not many themeparks have much variety in them or the tools for roleplayers to form a connection with that character.
It's good to see someone speak intelligently about this. but you are talking about a game that has been self hyped so hard fans will come here to tear you one for the observation.
I give you a +1 and flame suit :P
Good Luck
Ever heard of the saying "Never bring a knife to a gun fight"? Well this kind of came to mind when I was reading some of your OP. Because in Guild Wars 2 battles are situational and the game is built so that your weapon choices are too.
Though putting myself in your shoes I completely understand what your talking about. For many years most games I've enjoyed playing a Kingarthur roll, where I used A sword mainly and followed a Galant path of Knights Code. I was planning to play that same path within this game if you can imagine when you see my name :P
First I have to say I plan on rolling a Warrior at launch so I barely touched warrior at all to keep it fresh for me. I did roll my main in BWE's as Guardian, totally against my previous character plays. I mainly focused on learning the game and "testing" every aspect that Anet set as their vision.
Why am I pointing this out? Because I realized if I limited myself to my previous desire of playing every game I would miss out on an amazing experience. I also found that if I stick with only one weapon I was okay within PvE. I mainly used 2h sword in one set and 1h sword + off hand of chosing on another set. I did not stray from this hardly ever but I did notice I was not optimizing my time if I stayed with only my 2h sword or in only my 1h sword set and not switch between weapons during any battles. So I figued heck I'll pick a second set that I didn't mind and had fun using on top of my 2h sword set.
I tried out all other weapons for the Guardian and leveled them all until I had every skill available but none felt like "Me" So within the way Guild Wars 2 is I was forced to chose, so I stayed with swords.
Yes I limited myself but it didn't matter, I could clearly have played all the content to level 38 and only used 2h sword. Would it have caused me some issues, a little because it isn't optimal. What am I trying to get at with this optimal thing? Well It would take me a lot longer to kill something if I chose never to switch between weapon sets, making encounters a lot harder but still doable.
I can see how by the fact that you wanted to limit your weapon usage to one weapon you found yourself bored because this game wasn't intended to be played that way, though it allows you to do this.
I played the Personal story line knowing it was a ride, not much I could chose from my own desired story but rather one writen within the world of Tyria. Because I chose to not fit my own demands into a system I know wasn't made for it, I was actually able to enjoy it quite a lot, so much infact that when I finished it I was really wanting more.
I feel for you and though it pains me to say this to anyone, this might not be the game for you. Though I do not know of any game on the market that would allow you to honestly do what you are wanting to do.
In theory, yes, but in reality it's pretty much impossible to play whatever kind of personality you want because it conflicts with the ability of the campaign to progress too much.
Honestly, I don't see where people are getting off saying this game doesn't work for RP. So you can't build the exact build your character would be--big whoop. Most MMOs don't support that either.
In our experience, we found it perfect for RP. The dynamic events led to RP happening naturally, and the ability to customize our appearance, personality, and personal story paid off. An evil character is going to have difficulty working out in any MMO, I'm not sure why Guild Wars 2 is supposed to magically be able to support every single alignment and personality when it's flat out impossible even in single player games. That, is, unless you want your "evil" actions to be completely shallow and dialog-based, which any reasonable RPer wouldn't pay attention to anyway.
A game well suited to RP gives players opportunity and freedom for RP. Expecting game designers to design a million little differences for the minority when they have shit like balance and mechanical fun to worry about is downright unreasonable.
yes just one question... do you feel that you wasted $60 because you are limited in character development? Does nothing else at all matter to you... because wow that is some real nitpicking right there. To each their own i suppose
No, not really. An evil person or a neutral character can often do what one might consider a good deed. It isn't the deed, it is the motive behind the deed. It would be a bore to RP with people who played the set personalitly types and the DM who couldn't adjust probably had no business running a campaign.
In my opinion, this in red is the only valid whinge you have, from a RPers perspective. That's personal story though for you... if you don't like it the game might not suit you, but then it only goes to L30 or so I believe?
Is this a RP focused game? No. Can you RP in it? Sure.
Saying that the game encouraging you to use a variety of weapons is a non RP factor seems, to me, pretty silly.
My characters in any RP game have never had to rely on a static weapon set to define their personality. It's pretty weak RP if you have to do that even I think... Having to rely on such obvious physical cues to communicate a personality for him or her. Just my view.
We've seen pretty much the exact same post a month or two ago. I don't know if it was written by the same person, but it could have been.
First, if you can't find inspiration for roleplaying in GW2, then maybe your idea of roleplaying is different than mine. The environment and the lore provide very ripe ground for roleplaying and Dynamic Events give you a lot more flexibility than any other MMO I can think of to pick and chose your content. A hero may help anyone in need for the sake of aiding others, but there are many other motivations for stepping into a fight, or occassionally chosing not to. The various hostiles in the world could care less about your character's personal ethos, if you come to close or get in the way, they are going to kill you. A lot of DE content puts hostilities right in your face and of course your character will fight, for survival or reward, if not due to some heroic ideal. It will be very easy for anyone with a little imagination to make the environment here work for many different characters.
Second, weapons. Weapons are a tool. If you really cared about your character as a roleplayer, you would never make a weapon choice a defining part of a character unless there was some purpose for that affinity. Purpose stems from use and the tool dictates what it's useful for. GW2 is much more realistic in it's approach to weapons, because each weapon displays it's function clearly through the skills associated with it. Your character would never have chosen to specialize in a weapon that doesn't provide a desired function, unless being paired with a weapon for a reason other than personal choice comes into play. In such a case, being forced by honor, duty or circumstance to wield a weapon not well suited to the character is just reinforced by the GW2 system.
It sounds like you want your weapon choices to be purely cosmetic, with function somehow being forced to fit form, no matter how little sense it may make. I don't consider that good roleplaying.
Your weapon is a tool and a tool provides specific function. You can chose based on form and adjust to function, or chose based on function and accept the form. That's realistic and very supportive of roleplaying.
GW2 is deeply rich with lore. Why don't you create a character inspired by the environment and your profession/playstyle/weapon preferences, rather than trying to force some generic fantasy world character into the environment? If you really care about roleplaying, do the research and build the character from the ground up to match the setting and game. I guarantee you'll end up with a character much more your own than any recylcled fantasy cliche could ever be!
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Hmm... as far as if this game not for you, then thats only a question you have to ask yourself and not listen to the opinions of those who have formed their own opinions. Take what you know about the game and what you want your experience to be, decide how much of the game you would see yourself enjoying then minus the flaws of the game that would make you not want to play it. If you decide that you don't want to, then you have your answer. If you can over look what it lacks in terms of what you want and enjoy the game for what it is, then you also have your answer. Of course this course of logic can be applied to any game you might choose to play be it mmo, srpg, etc.
As a more direct answer to your question however, if what you described above is most definitely what you desire to play, then i would say GW2 is not right for you. And there is nothing at all wrong with that either. Players should always make up their own opinions about what they play because if you are not having fun, then what is the point of gaming? Good luck and have fun whatever way you decide!
I'm sorry but the only one saying anything about the second coming is you. Fans of a game accept its flaws and strengths.
I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.
Well, yeah, Skyrim is pretty much the ultimate example of freedom available, but I'm not asking for full sandbox. To answer your question, none of them have ever given me full freedom, but none of them have restricted me to this degree, either. Typically the only barrier you'll come across, outside of simply not being able to use a weapon type, is that the best weapon you can get isn't the type you want (e.g. you don't raid and the best one-handed weapon in dungeons is a mace, and you prefer axes). This isn't as bad insofar as it's difficult to realize until you're there and already invested in the game: only after however many hours of playing Rift did I realize that I was stuck with a dagger instead of a sword, at least until new items were released. Obviously, however, I know about the restrictions in GW2 already, making it a more difficult pill to swallow.
I don't feel like the weapon restrictions are necessary, personally. They could have gotten away with "stances" or anything of that nature that doesn't visually reflect on your character. Well, I guess if you consider being able to see what weapon your opponents are using and knowing a bit of what they are capable of being a core part of the game then it's important, but I feel that the freedom to use what you want with no penalty is more important, personally.
It doesn't make sense to me that someone is using a sword and a shield and then can (magically) produce a greatsword instantly. Every other modern game that I can think of always used this sparingly: my rogue in WoW had a bow, and when I used it it would appear out of thin air, but those instances are few and far between, and it certainly wasn't a large part of the class. The same goes for Rift. This game, however, it's going to be happening all the time. It's visually silly and I've always tried to stay away from it.
I guess it makes sense that someone who masters every weapon and can use them all in a fight (somehow handwaving the "appearing out of thin air" part for the sake of this hypothetical), but I feel like that's bordering on Mary Sue territory, where every character has to be a master of all arms to be effective, and those who (more realistically) are skilled with only subset of all available weapons are just weaker and it's their fault for not being great at everything.
Let's not turn this into a "GW2 is better than SWTOR" thread. I strongly disagree with you on a lot of what you said, but I don't want to derail my own thread. I do currently play SWTOR and I never intended to replace it with GW2. I never asked for GW2 to be like SWTOR story wise (though I do question why bother even voice acting at all if you're not going to go BioWare-esque with player dialog choices) and I don't even think SWTOR itself allows me to "hand write" my story. There is a difference between not wanting a very specific story forced on you and you expecting the game to allow for complete customization. As I have said, I'll just skip the story and make up my own reasons for doing quests and the like.
No, but it is the game's fault for making different weapons do different things, forcing each player to use every weapon type at one point or another to be competitive.
I would feel like I wasted $60 if I don't play the game because I can't enjoy my own character due to various gameplay elements, yes. If I want to play a game for PvP and only PvP, not caring about my avatar, I'll play a FPS. If I want to play an RPG for the challenge of building a character correctly and defeating hard content, I'll play Diablo 3. MMORPGs, for me at least, need to have every piece working together: if I don't enjoy my character, it doesn't matter how much fun the PvP is.
I disagree entirely. A good, recent example of "equipment" augmenting characterization would be...well, I don't want to spoil anything, so I wont even say the character or series name. Regardless, the character must fight an enemy who has full armor and a large shield. This character, however, is wearing leather and refuses a shield when offered. As he bides his time in the duel, the heavily armored enemy becomes tired and the character is able to easily win. The fact that he "only equipped light armor and a sword" tells you a lot about his history/experience in combat, his confidence in himself, and his ability to read opponents in battle. This is perfectly viable RP, in my opinion. In WoW, my friend was a Dwarf who preferred to use bows instead of guns (Dwarves being one of the industrious races of the game). It's small, but it's characterization.
Traditionally, trying to get the optimum stat advantage in combat does not job with building a specific roleplay character and sticking with it no matter what.
However, it's entirely possible to focus on one weapon loadout, rarely or never swap, and be alright. I rarely swap on my Mesmer, and never swap on my thief unless I am forced into a ranged only situation and have nothing else to do (very rare, I always find something else to do)
You should try Baldur's Gate. That would be right up your alley.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
how about Neverwinter Nights Online? ;P its coming...its coming...
Tormented echoes of a fallen Eden
I longed for her beauty
Yet from dust, she returned
The dream, an enigma.... silent