Have you even played past the level 20 area? Hearts are there to guide players to events and familiarize them with the areas, while providing xp. You have a problem with this? Fine, don't do them. But why should it be removed? There are many ways to level w/o touching hearts if you choose to do so.
I have only played the two zones that accompany each of the three starter cities in the BWE's, so that's to level 25. I have not touched Gendarren Fields, but perhaps events are more predominant there? I hope so.
I don't have as much of a problem with hearts, as I have a problem with events. It is my impression that events are not all they could have been and that perhaps Anet focused too much on hearts. A focus they could have put on events to make them better. They have limited resources after all.
Just think when you are doine dong 1000+ some dynamic events, you'll get 500+ more in an expansion. For the short term they'll be ok but for the long term no thanks. I would have preferred more of a sanbox type feaures with better immersion and exploration.
I can certainly understand that there might be many traditional mmo-players who enjoy the hearts. When I call out the hearts, it's because it was a system that was tacked unto the event-system, to compliment it, a bit later in the game development. But perhaps it has evolved into its own seperate system now of more traditional quests.
But I'm still left with the feeling that perhaps Arenanet are trying to do too many things in GW2. That in the end it will be a game of half-baked features, that are not quite what they could have been. Perhaps they should have narrowed their focus and done a few things really, really well. But I guess when you want to appeal to the masses you spread out and do it all.
This is where I have to disagree with you. Nothing from my playing time so far indicates any of the systems are 1/2 baked. The systems themselves even when new changes are brought in have been pretty polished. Also even if the number of features took away from quality (which I don't believe they have)... They certainly appear good enough to build on. As good as I think the game is right now... given the normal evolution of an MMO... It should be even better 6 months to a year down the road.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
I don't feel Anet wasted resources on heart quests because during the betas I realy enjoyed doing them as they gave a sense of progression in the game other than leveling.
This is where I have to disagree with you. Nothing from my playing time so far indicates any of the systems are 1/2 baked. The systems themselves even when new changes are brought in have been pretty polished. Also even if the number of features took away from quality (which I don't believe they have)... They certainly appear good enough to build on. As good as I think the game is right now... given the normal evolution of an MMO... It should be even better 6 months to a year down the road.
I feel the event system is half baked. It's not all it could have been imo. There are too many events that just reset every few minutes on a timer(something they are adjusting I know), too many linear event and too few events that have a meaningfull persistant effect on the world. And at least in BWE2 as they cut away many of the timed events, just too few events in many areas.
I kinda do wish hearts weren't there. Nevertheless, the way ANet added them doens't particulalry worry me, though. I only wish they didn't count for map completion...
I feel the event system is half baked. It's not all it could have been imo. There are too many events that just reset every few minutes on a timer(something they are adjusting I know), too many linear event and too few events that have a meaningfull persistant effect on the world. And at least in BWE2 as they cut away many of the timed events, just too few events in many areas.
I don't know what to tell you there. I had a completely different experience with the actual DE system (which should not be confused with the hearts events). Wandering around I jumped in on a number of DEs which is the beauty of the system. You can miss multiple stages and still be a part of it... You can go through an entire area and not see all the DEs which makes replaying in those areas interesting.
I ran through Norn, Charr, and Human zones up to 20 - 25 on three chars between the two BWE. Each character had new experiences in zones I overlapped and only a few of the true DEs did I repeat. Maybe that is the bad side to this system... It is quite possible for a player to miss a large chunk of content by either bad luck or not recognizing when they stumbled onto a DE event.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
I am torn on this one. I personally feel they did waste resources implamenting the heart system, but I can understand why they did it. There is a large population of players out there that have come to expect hand holding in MMOs. If you just dump them in a huge map and tell them to go explore it can overwhelm. My guess is that ANet did not want to put them in, but did it to appease a wider segment of player base. They are afterall in this to make money.
I think the hearts system is well done, just unnecessary for my personal playing style. If it stems some complaints from the masses I can live with it though.
You are aware that GW 1 was on of the first MMO's to bring in goal markers on maps and mini maps?
I have nothing against the heart system, like all systems in this game it adds to the whole package of what makes this a decent mmo, but please dont say silly things like "Didnt want to put them in" just because you would like to evangelicise them. They put them in, so clearly they wanted to....
I didn't notice it mentioned but hearts are a major source of gear also. I got all my level 20ish greens doing hearts on my eng. Thye have a place in the game and I can't imagine how boring this game would be without them.
I don't know what to tell you there. I had a completely different experience with the actual DE system (which should not be confused with the hearts events). Wandering around I jumped in on a number of DEs which is the beauty of the system. You can miss multiple stages and still be a part of it... You can go through an entire area and not see all the DEs which makes replaying in those areas interesting.
I ran through Norn, Charr, and Human zones up to 20 - 25 on three chars between the two BWE. Each character had new experiences in zones I overlapped and only a few of the true DEs did I repeat. Maybe that is the bad side to this system... It is quite possible for a player to miss a large chunk of content by either bad luck or not recognizing when they stumbled onto a DE event.
During BWE2 I was running around for a long time looking for events without much turning up, so perhaps I just missed them. I know on the official beta-forum, there were a number of threads complaining about the lack of events in BWE2, so I wasn't the only one who felt that way.
You are aware that GW 1 was on of the first MMO's to bring in goal markers on maps and mini maps?
I have nothing against the heart system, like all systems in this game it adds to the whole package of what makes this a decent mmo, but please dont say silly things like "Didnt want to put them in" just because you would like to evangelicise them. They put them in, so clearly they wanted to....
Please point out where I was "evangelizing" ANet.
As to GW1 how is that in any relevance to GW2? BTW both WoW and EQ2 were released before GW1... Those are two prime examples of MMOs with quest markers before GW1 was release so lets not pretend GW1 coined the idea.
Devs have been on record as saying the heart system was put in in response to feedback. So no, I don't think they originally intended them. They feel out of place compared to everything else in the game which has a focus on exploration.
It was my opinion, but please feel free to keep going at me without reason. What this forum needs is more unwarranted drama.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
I see where the OP is coming from, but... Hearts are a great feature for the "non-MMO" crowd.
Acrtually I think it is more intended for the majority of current MMO players as they simply forgot or never learned how to find content if it is not marked/highlighted.
I can only respect a guy who sees straight through all the mud... In retrospect: You are right! (Simple as that).
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!! (repeat ad infinitum)
I like the heart quests. Many of those are actually fun and lead the way to events, or just lets you pass the time inbetween events. Also always curious to see what the heart npc is going to sell me
You are aware that GW 1 was on of the first MMO's to bring in goal markers on maps and mini maps?
I have nothing against the heart system, like all systems in this game it adds to the whole package of what makes this a decent mmo, but please dont say silly things like "Didnt want to put them in" just because you would like to evangelicise them. They put them in, so clearly they wanted to....
Please point out where I was "evangelizing" ANet.
As to GW1 how is that in any relevance to GW2? BTW both WoW and EQ2 were released before GW1... Those are two prime examples of MMOs with quest markers before GW1 was release so lets not pretend GW1 coined the idea.
Devs have been on record as saying the heart system was put in in response to feedback. So no, I don't think they originally intended them. They feel out of place compared to everything else in the game which has a focus on exploration.
It was my opinion, but please feel free to keep going at me without reason. What this forum needs is more unwarranted drama.
Wow did not add in map based goal markers untill very late in the game and certainly after they saw them in GW 1 and EQ (And in the quest helper mod). Prior to that it was just read the quest text and find your way.
Now they might have not originally thought of putting them in, they might not have been something that occured to them, but saying they dint want to in the fashion you did implies they only did it to please the lowest common denominator, you made it sound like it some how dilluted the purity of the game and that Anet only did it as some kind of concession. Now sure, if you think handholding is a dirty word (as was your implication) then go for it, I am simply pointing out that Anet was one of the first to bring in full on hand holding breadcrumb trails in MMOS thats all.
Fact is once they had the idea, they upsold it as a a feature. Its hardly drama, its simply the case that when discussing Anet here or on massively or PC gamer people change their language. Any feature that is deemed too "hipster" is instantly the fault of the vocal minority or something the developers didnt want.
If you dont like a spade say so, but dont try and tell me it sucks at digging up earth because its a fork
Originally posted by Meowhead I feel the need to mention I love feeding cows.That's not sarcasm. I genuinely did. :xI like doing things like that. I know. I'm such a freak. :c
I think I enjoyed cheering them up and making the smelly ones less smelly more
I would rather they weren't there but it's obvious how problematic that would be, I fear chat would have been endless questions or statements of 'OMG nothing to do, empty game FTL!'.
"In reality there are a lot of hearts in any given area and the same few repeating events."
This line of the OPs just...staggered me.
In the average zone there's maybe what...a dozen hearts? If? In that same zone, there will be 2-3 DEs that "respawn" at varying times around each heart, maybe 6-10 or more DEs that require some exploring to find, and 2-5 "patrol" DEs, where the target is a caravan or other moving unit that travels back and forth btween certain points and can be accepted at multiple points across the way. I never felt that there were more DEs tghan hearts in any zone I've been to.
To answer the titlular question....probably not. I wouldn't have minded a system with more DEs and less (or no) hearts, but I can accept them as something needed to prevent from completely alienating people used to traditional MMOs.
Considering their plans to continue updating and adding more DEs, I'd say there wasn't any waste of resources on hearts.
Once I got used to the DE system I stopped looking for or trying to complete hearts, and I found that I still completed a good number of them just by doing whatever DEs were going on around. I didn't really feel that I had to do them just to level, but I also harvest/craft/explore and do some WvW, so maybe without those things it would be more necessary to do all hearts and repeat a lot of DEs.
I also like the fact they become karma merchants. Having more options to sell junk and pick up interesting gear is a good thing.
No. The hearts serve a triple purpose. Somethinf to do, A way to lead you through or around the map and a place to purchase certain somewhat exclusive items.
People ALWAYS seem to forget that the development of multiple portions of a game are not mutually exclusive. Content developers, and the people who program/designed the hearts system are probably not the same team or department in any way whatsoever. I don't know why, but everyone seems to forget that.
I believe they put the hearts in because people were complaining that they didn't know where to go or what to do. It wasn't in the initial plan. I am sure they could have done more with the events without putting time into the hearts, but it is a little late for that now.
And I agree that the hearts feel very much like boring run of the mill MMO quests. I would have much prefered more events and cranking up the frequency of them. Though, in a zone with high population, there are so many events going on, I don't even know what to do with myself.
We'll see how it plays out on release, but I am pretty happy with what we have currently. I think the hearts are a nice "guide" for those that need/want it. It does really suck when you run around doing the hearts and you hardly see any events though /cry
Only problem I have with hearts is people complaining they are not high enough level to leave a zone after filling all the hearts.... ignoring the fact that hearts are guidelines and the main xp source is DEs
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
I enjoyed these quests and like the variety. There is nothing wrong with including game mechanics that appeal to as abroad an audience as possible. Not everyone is hardcore.
Comments
I have only played the two zones that accompany each of the three starter cities in the BWE's, so that's to level 25. I have not touched Gendarren Fields, but perhaps events are more predominant there? I hope so.
I don't have as much of a problem with hearts, as I have a problem with events. It is my impression that events are not all they could have been and that perhaps Anet focused too much on hearts. A focus they could have put on events to make them better. They have limited resources after all.
Just think when you are doine dong 1000+ some dynamic events, you'll get 500+ more in an expansion. For the short term they'll be ok but for the long term no thanks. I would have preferred more of a sanbox type feaures with better immersion and exploration.
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
This is where I have to disagree with you. Nothing from my playing time so far indicates any of the systems are 1/2 baked. The systems themselves even when new changes are brought in have been pretty polished. Also even if the number of features took away from quality (which I don't believe they have)... They certainly appear good enough to build on. As good as I think the game is right now... given the normal evolution of an MMO... It should be even better 6 months to a year down the road.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
I don't feel Anet wasted resources on heart quests because during the betas I realy enjoyed doing them as they gave a sense of progression in the game other than leveling.
I feel the event system is half baked. It's not all it could have been imo. There are too many events that just reset every few minutes on a timer(something they are adjusting I know), too many linear event and too few events that have a meaningfull persistant effect on the world. And at least in BWE2 as they cut away many of the timed events, just too few events in many areas.
I kinda do wish hearts weren't there. Nevertheless, the way ANet added them doens't particulalry worry me, though. I only wish they didn't count for map completion...
I don't know what to tell you there. I had a completely different experience with the actual DE system (which should not be confused with the hearts events). Wandering around I jumped in on a number of DEs which is the beauty of the system. You can miss multiple stages and still be a part of it... You can go through an entire area and not see all the DEs which makes replaying in those areas interesting.
I ran through Norn, Charr, and Human zones up to 20 - 25 on three chars between the two BWE. Each character had new experiences in zones I overlapped and only a few of the true DEs did I repeat. Maybe that is the bad side to this system... It is quite possible for a player to miss a large chunk of content by either bad luck or not recognizing when they stumbled onto a DE event.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
You are aware that GW 1 was on of the first MMO's to bring in goal markers on maps and mini maps?
I have nothing against the heart system, like all systems in this game it adds to the whole package of what makes this a decent mmo, but please dont say silly things like "Didnt want to put them in" just because you would like to evangelicise them. They put them in, so clearly they wanted to....
I didn't notice it mentioned but hearts are a major source of gear also. I got all my level 20ish greens doing hearts on my eng. Thye have a place in the game and I can't imagine how boring this game would be without them.
During BWE2 I was running around for a long time looking for events without much turning up, so perhaps I just missed them. I know on the official beta-forum, there were a number of threads complaining about the lack of events in BWE2, so I wasn't the only one who felt that way.
Please point out where I was "evangelizing" ANet.
As to GW1 how is that in any relevance to GW2? BTW both WoW and EQ2 were released before GW1... Those are two prime examples of MMOs with quest markers before GW1 was release so lets not pretend GW1 coined the idea.
Devs have been on record as saying the heart system was put in in response to feedback. So no, I don't think they originally intended them. They feel out of place compared to everything else in the game which has a focus on exploration.
It was my opinion, but please feel free to keep going at me without reason. What this forum needs is more unwarranted drama.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
I can only respect a guy who sees straight through all the mud... In retrospect: You are right! (Simple as that).
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!!
(repeat ad infinitum)
I like the heart quests. Many of those are actually fun and lead the way to events, or just lets you pass the time inbetween events. Also always curious to see what the heart npc is going to sell me
Wow did not add in map based goal markers untill very late in the game and certainly after they saw them in GW 1 and EQ (And in the quest helper mod). Prior to that it was just read the quest text and find your way.
Now they might have not originally thought of putting them in, they might not have been something that occured to them, but saying they dint want to in the fashion you did implies they only did it to please the lowest common denominator, you made it sound like it some how dilluted the purity of the game and that Anet only did it as some kind of concession. Now sure, if you think handholding is a dirty word (as was your implication) then go for it, I am simply pointing out that Anet was one of the first to bring in full on hand holding breadcrumb trails in MMOS thats all.
Fact is once they had the idea, they upsold it as a a feature. Its hardly drama, its simply the case that when discussing Anet here or on massively or PC gamer people change their language. Any feature that is deemed too "hipster" is instantly the fault of the vocal minority or something the developers didnt want.
If you dont like a spade say so, but dont try and tell me it sucks at digging up earth because its a fork
No, they did not waste resources on hearts.
I think I enjoyed cheering them up and making the smelly ones less smelly more
I would rather they weren't there but it's obvious how problematic that would be, I fear chat would have been endless questions or statements of 'OMG nothing to do, empty game FTL!'.
"In reality there are a lot of hearts in any given area and the same few repeating events."
This line of the OPs just...staggered me.
In the average zone there's maybe what...a dozen hearts? If? In that same zone, there will be 2-3 DEs that "respawn" at varying times around each heart, maybe 6-10 or more DEs that require some exploring to find, and 2-5 "patrol" DEs, where the target is a caravan or other moving unit that travels back and forth btween certain points and can be accepted at multiple points across the way. I never felt that there were more DEs tghan hearts in any zone I've been to.
To answer the titlular question....probably not. I wouldn't have minded a system with more DEs and less (or no) hearts, but I can accept them as something needed to prevent from completely alienating people used to traditional MMOs.
No, they didn't waste resources on Hearts. I think it's been a good compliment to the dynamic event system actually.
Storymode though...
Considering their plans to continue updating and adding more DEs, I'd say there wasn't any waste of resources on hearts.
Once I got used to the DE system I stopped looking for or trying to complete hearts, and I found that I still completed a good number of them just by doing whatever DEs were going on around. I didn't really feel that I had to do them just to level, but I also harvest/craft/explore and do some WvW, so maybe without those things it would be more necessary to do all hearts and repeat a lot of DEs.
I also like the fact they become karma merchants. Having more options to sell junk and pick up interesting gear is a good thing.
No.
No. The hearts serve a triple purpose. Somethinf to do, A way to lead you through or around the map and a place to purchase certain somewhat exclusive items.
People ALWAYS seem to forget that the development of multiple portions of a game are not mutually exclusive. Content developers, and the people who program/designed the hearts system are probably not the same team or department in any way whatsoever. I don't know why, but everyone seems to forget that.
I believe they put the hearts in because people were complaining that they didn't know where to go or what to do. It wasn't in the initial plan. I am sure they could have done more with the events without putting time into the hearts, but it is a little late for that now.
And I agree that the hearts feel very much like boring run of the mill MMO quests. I would have much prefered more events and cranking up the frequency of them. Though, in a zone with high population, there are so many events going on, I don't even know what to do with myself.
We'll see how it plays out on release, but I am pretty happy with what we have currently. I think the hearts are a nice "guide" for those that need/want it. It does really suck when you run around doing the hearts and you hardly see any events though /cry
Only problem I have with hearts is people complaining they are not high enough level to leave a zone after filling all the hearts.... ignoring the fact that hearts are guidelines and the main xp source is DEs
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums