Another thing I find interesting, is when you get into the debate of PvP and PvE severs. Not saying Archeage will have different server rule sets, and I am talking about PVP games in genral, but overall which crowd is strongly opposed to different server rule sets? Its sure as heck isnt the PvE crowd. PVE crowd couldnt care less if there was a PVP server or not. But why is it that PVP crowd so strongly opposes a PVE server? Its because PVP servers end up dying because ultimately the players run other players off to the PVE servers. PVP crowd wants to force everybody to play by their rules. Without PVE servers the players just end up running players off to another game, which is what the OP is refering to I think.
Would I like to see PVP/PVE servers in AA? Maybe, but id rather see servers with the penalty for greiving and ganking higher on some severs vs other severs. Id have to see how the game plays before I know for sure on which id prefer.
I feel that if someone doesn't like to engage in conflict with the enemy on the battlefield, that this might not be the game for them. XLGames has only mention contemplation on sperate servers for hasher rules, but I don't believe a PVE server is in their scope of things. The mechanics of the game is designed around interaction. I feel that the full scope of the game would not be imbraced, if players could only duel or not interact at all....True, it may affect the population of the game, but it could also change the experience of how they have envisioned the game to be, so far as the overall experience.
A lot of the games raid bosses occur in the open world, and the Entire 3rd continent is designed around control for territory, housing, and siege warfare. When a title is built around developing a game life, and then making sure you protect it, exploring new lands, while embracing the threat of unfriendliness in some lands, I don't see how a PVE server could work....Even if they did implement it.
I am really intrerested in how they handle open world raid bosses. That could be the making for some truely epic fights, just think PvPvE. However I think that varity is the key, I dont think its smart to make every raid boss open world. I hate instances though but make something like a portal system where only guild/alliance can use it. I am a strong believer that viartity and diversity is the key to long term sucess of PvE content. This T1,T2,T3 garbage is pathetic, its why these themeparks die off so fast. Id love to see a PvE end-game like XI had in AA. I could only imagine what it would have been like fighting some of the open world bosses if XI had open world PvP. I dont know that anyone would have actually ever killed one of the king raid bosses. Due to the players killing each other first .
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Its always the players. In any game, "some" players will always try to fight the game, bypass mechanics and obstacles and chose the path of least resistance. They are like water. And this will always produce problems for a much larger number of players, if not the whole playerbase.
This is, in my opinion, one of the main reasons for why themepark mmos have even been invented.
right.. so rather than it being dodgy coding, its because players break stuff.. awesome.. personally i thought the bit where the players broke stuff was called, BETA TESTING. but, wouldnt be the first game to be released in a questionable state, certainly won't be the last.
had to laugh though at the OPs 'its the players fault'.. QQ'ing.. priceless
Until Trammal hit, UO subs were falling. The person you quoted is touching upon the subject.
Folks not wanting to PVP arent going to look kindly on being someone elses E-sport. Once EQ hit, and folks had the option to not be griefed, it was game on for themeparks.
Giving players the power to drive off other players is the stupidest game mechanic of them all IMO. There is always that one jackass that has to fuck with others. IN a themepark that person wont be noticed. In a sandbox, devs better hope the damage to the playerbase is minimal.
Sandboxes are their own worst enemy. I wont touch them in the MMO realm, but there are folks that would if they could craft/PVE in peace. If Jake Song is smart, he will make a game for all to enjoy since he seems to be aiming for all this sandbox content.
If the game is world wide FFA, I dont expect it will do very well in NA. In Asia though, I would imagine world wide FFA will go over pretty good.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I actually agree with the OP, to an extent. A handfull of players can ruin an entire server in an open PvP game. I think thats what the OP is meaning. FFA PVP is a niche crowd period, and the reason is ganking and greiving. Debate that all you like, throw out derogatory terms like "carebear" all you like but majority of gamers do not enjoy that type of play at all, again I think that is where the OP is going with this thread.
As for AA I hope the game mechanics thats suposed to curb the ganking and greiving work otherwise, the game will just be another niche game. Theres nothing wrong with that, everyone needs a game to play. But open world PvP will never be for the masses.
This^
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by MMOExposed This game seem very interesting! But I feel the main thing that will Ruin the game up in the West won't be bugs or software issues,,
But will be THE PLAYERS.
NA culture, along with Sandbox PvP, tend to ruin an awesome gameplay experience when it comes to any sandbox MMO. What will make Archeage any different here? The players to mess things up, and run players away, that may be interested in sandbox subgenre.
If anything ruins ArcheAge it will likely be a F2P model
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
Another thing I find interesting, is when you get into the debate of PvP and PvE severs. Not saying Archeage will have different server rule sets, and I am talking about PVP games in genral, but overall which crowd is strongly opposed to different server rule sets? Its sure as heck isnt the PvE crowd. PVE crowd couldnt care less if there was a PVP server or not. But why is it that PVP crowd so strongly opposes a PVE server? Its because PVP servers end up dying because ultimately the players run other players off to the PVE servers. PVP crowd wants to force everybody to play by their rules. Without PVE servers the players just end up running players off to another game, which is what the OP is refering to I think.
Would I like to see PVP/PVE servers in AA? Maybe, but id rather see servers with the penalty for greiving and ganking higher on some severs vs other severs. Id have to see how the game plays before I know for sure on which id prefer.
Actually the main argument I hear from PVE players regarding PvP even existing in a game is that in order to balance PvP you need to balance classes which affect the PVE'ers who never intend to step foot in a warzone.
As of now, none of this will affect ArcheAge anyway as it mainly has an RvR ruleset restricting PvP to certain zones
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
As of now, none of this will affect ArcheAge anyway as it mainly has an RvR ruleset restricting PvP to certain zones
From what i know, sieges are only in the 3rd continent, but can you still kill other players and destroy or steal their boats, houses, mounts, etc in the 2 other continents?
As of now, none of this will affect ArcheAge anyway as it mainly has an RvR ruleset restricting PvP to certain zones
From what i know, sieges are only in the 3rd continent, but can you still kill other players and destroy or steal their boats, houses, mounts, etc in the 2 other continents?
I have done a bit of research on house building and farming, because that's something that I tend to enjoy doing in games, where possible. How farming and house building would work is you can build a house and a farm, but it's entirely possible that another player or group of players could come along and destroy it. In order to play with the more sandboxy feature, you have to accept the possibility of the losing everything you've built up. If you're offline and not there when it happens, tough cookies. Your stuff will just be gone.
I'm not sure how much this holds true for other stuff though. This would be enough to turn me off of the game. I'm waiting to see how it actually plays out in game though. We don't even know if the Eastern and Western versions of the game will operate under the same rule sets or not.
** edit ** From what I read, the house building and farming were restricted to the third continent. No houses or farming on the other two continents.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
As of now, none of this will affect ArcheAge anyway as it mainly has an RvR ruleset restricting PvP to certain zones
From what i know, sieges are only in the 3rd continent, but can you still kill other players and destroy or steal their boats, houses, mounts, etc in the 2 other continents?
Details are sketchy but you're correct, its just the criminal system which will effectively (?) nerf PvP outside of the 3rd continent
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
As of now, none of this will affect ArcheAge anyway as it mainly has an RvR ruleset restricting PvP to certain zones
From what i know, sieges are only in the 3rd continent, but can you still kill other players and destroy or steal their boats, houses, mounts, etc in the 2 other continents?
I have done a bit of research on house building and farming, because that's something that I tend to enjoy doing in games, where possible. How farming and house building would work is you can build a house and a farm, but it's entirely possible that another player or group of players could come along and destroy it. In order to play with the more sandboxy feature, you have to accept the possibility of the losing everything you've built up. If you're offline and not there when it happens, tough cookies. Your stuff will just be gone.
I'm not sure how much this holds true for other stuff though. This would be enough to turn me off of the game. I'm waiting to see how it actually plays out in game though. We don't even know if the Eastern and Western versions of the game will operate under the same rule sets or not.
** edit ** From what I read, the house building and farming were restricted to the third continent. No houses or farming on the other two continents.
Thanks for the response. Not very happy to hear this. But i'll have to see the full system and game before jump the shark.
I actually agree with the OP, to an extent. A handfull of players can ruin an entire server in an open PvP game. I think thats what the OP is meaning. FFA PVP is a niche crowd period, and the reason is ganking and greiving. Debate that all you like, throw out derogatory terms like "carebear" all you like but majority of gamers do not enjoy that type of play at all, again I think that is where the OP is going with this thread.
As for AA I hope the game mechanics thats suposed to curb the ganking and greiving work otherwise, the game will just be another niche game. Theres nothing wrong with that, everyone needs a game to play. But open world PvP will never be for the masses.
Open world FFA PVP isn't a niche crowd. Hell, if you don't believe me check out DayZ, or hell even Call of Duty, seems pretty popular eh? A ton of people love killing other players, period. Problem is the vocal minority of PVEers always trying to convince devs that the majority of players are too scared of this style of game. Real hardcore pvpers are stuck playing FPS games due to simple lack of options.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now! I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
I actually agree with the OP, to an extent. A handfull of players can ruin an entire server in an open PvP game. I think thats what the OP is meaning. FFA PVP is a niche crowd period, and the reason is ganking and greiving. Debate that all you like, throw out derogatory terms like "carebear" all you like but majority of gamers do not enjoy that type of play at all, again I think that is where the OP is going with this thread.
As for AA I hope the game mechanics thats suposed to curb the ganking and greiving work otherwise, the game will just be another niche game. Theres nothing wrong with that, everyone needs a game to play. But open world PvP will never be for the masses.
Open world FFA PVP isn't a niche crowd. Hell, if you don't believe me check out DayZ, or hell even Call of Duty, seems pretty popular eh? A ton of people love killing other players, period. Problem is the vocal minority of PVEers always trying to convince devs that the majority of players are too scared of this style of game. Real hardcore pvpers are stuck playing FPS games due to simple lack of options.
FFA PVP is a niche mechanic, and doesnt appear it will change anytime soon. Of all game mechanics used in MMOs, FFA is one of the least utiliized among NA subs. Eastern subs dont mind so much, but then again their subs are worth what? 50 cents a month is probably pretty close when compared to the 15 bucks a NA sub brings.
Until FFA Devs figure out a way to keep folks from chasing the lambs off, it will always remain niche. Hard to grow a market when new gamers can be griefed to the point of leaving. It was no mistake that UO grew in numbers once Trammel was introduced.
There is no problem liking things others do not, just dont kid yourself when it comes to estimating its popularity. CoD offers players PVP on an equal footing. MMOs do not. You give noobs an equal chance to win against the lvled up griefers, and things will be different.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
FFA games in the East don't really have the kind of Players that spend 90% of their time trying to make other Players ragequit. I assume there is a lot of 1-on-1 requests for a fair fight, then a lot of bowing afterwards. It's a culture thing.
The west, on the other hand, is a bunch of drooling CoD4 cockmongers that - given the chance - would scream into their mic solely to make ears bleed. There is no sense of honor (in the greater community, that is), and they don't treat a game world as if there are reputations to uphold. As far as they are concerned, it's just a persistant version of Team Deathmatch.
~Now, what *I* assume will be the hardest factor for the west to deal with would be the Eastern art style/aesthetics. People get really mouthy about "things looking too Asian", like we still have some kind of staunch nationalism issues, like we did back in the days of the cold war. I wouldn't call it racism, but it's close. The west just tends to put up an emotional wall when it comes to any kind of product from the east, even cuisine (if they are *that* much of an asshole). It's likely just how western culture (read: Americans) is.
(this all coming from one of them)
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
If people are concerned about some of the CORE gameplay mechanics this MMO is employing maybe you should find a new game that fits your gaming needs. Sorry it is incredibly annoying that a developer is finally stepping outside of the WoW box and have people complain that it is not like every other AAA MMO that has hit the market the past couple of years. If you are a carebear and are concerned about being griefed or losing your items play a different game. I played Ultima Online for many years and what some people dont seem to understand is that yes griefers do run amok but players also rise up against the griefers and fight back. Each server was unique in that you had notorious player killers but groups of players also created anti-pk groups which kept things interesting . If this game launches in the west with FFA pvp and full loot history will repeat itself and have PK's and people who hunt down the PK's which will create a fun and unique server story, a lot better then some dev created quest that has you collect 10 cow testicles!
If people are concerned about some of the CORE gameplay mechanics this MMO is employing maybe you should find a new game that fits your gaming needs. Sorry it is incredibly annoying that a developer is finally stepping outside of the WoW box and have people complain that it is not like every other AAA MMO that has hit the market the past couple of years. If you are a carebear and are concerned about being griefed or losing your items play a different game. I played Ultima Online for many years and what some people dont seem to understand is that yes griefers do run amok but players also rise up against the griefers and fight back. Each server was unique in that you had notorious player killers but groups of players also created anti-pk groups which kept things interesting . If this game launches in the west with FFA pvp and full loot history will repeat itself and have PK's and people who hunt down the PK's which will create a fun and unique server story, a lot better then some dev created quest that has you collect 10 cow testicles!
Oh where to start with this nonsensical fecies. Developers have stepped outside the box before. You have Mortal online and Darkfall online. How about they step further outside the box and have controlled meaning PvP. (more on this later)
Oh now the post is complete with the typical deragatory term "carebear" being thrown around. btw they do play different games, and then your beloved game becomes a ghost town. No one wants to be constantly grieved, and I am gad you brough up UO. Then amount of greivers in a game then compared to now is not even in the same ball park. The MMO demographic has exploded since then like we are all aware of. For every 1 greiver in the UO days, you have now have 50 in todays era. The PK "hunters" hasnt scaled equally, or even close. Its severly lopsided now.
AA does not have full loot, it has controlled FFA PVP. I say controlled because there is an anti-greiving system in place. How well it works? I have no clue, it sounds good on paper, but if the penalty for becoming an "outlaw" is nothing more than a slap on the wrist, then you will get your wish the "carebears will leave and then the PK'ers will get bored and leave, and the game will be down to a couple dead servers in no time. Just like all other ffa pvp games.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Mortal Online and Darkfall are not AAA titles, they tried to cash in by fulfilling a niche that mainstream developers will not go after because they are all busy chasing the big WoW rainbow, how is that working out for those companies the past couple of years? No one has really made a AAA MMO since WoW has been released that is doing what ArcheAge is doing, using FFA PvP. So you using Mortal Online and Darkfall as part of your reasoning why FFA games cannot do well in this market is not exactly fair because they have had much less financial backing than some of its competition which is using themepark mechanics.
As for being constantly griefed if youve never played a game like Ultima Online you would not know how things worked and went down and I am not denying people griefed in UO but the truth is in almost any online game you will have people that enjoy making others rage thats just the way it is and it will never change. But by using FFA pvp mechanics you open up the gameplay and make it much more exciting and personal to the players on the server in my opinion.
My point remains if people do not want FFA PvP which potentially opens up people to be griefed I can recommend a couple dozen MMO's that you would never have to worry about that, leave AA the way it is for the people who want to enjoy that style of gameplay!
Mortal Online and Darkfall are not AAA titles, they tried to cash in by fulfilling a niche that mainstream developers will not go after because they are all busy chasing the big WoW rainbow, how is that working out for those companies the past couple of years? No one has really made a AAA MMO since WoW has been released that is doing what ArcheAge is doing, using FFA PvP. So you using Mortal Online and Darkfall as part of your reasoning why FFA games cannot do well in this market is not exactly fair because they have had much less financial backing than some of its competition which is using themepark mechanics.
As for being constantly griefed if youve never played a game like Ultima Online you would not know how things worked and went down and I am not denying people griefed in UO but the truth is in almost any online game you will have people that enjoy making others rage thats just the way it is and it will never change. But by using FFA pvp mechanics you open up the gameplay and make it much more exciting and personal to the players on the server in my opinion.
My point remains if people do not want FFA PvP which potentially opens up people to be griefed I can recommend a couple dozen MMO's that you would never have to worry about that, leave AA the way it is for the people who want to enjoy that style of gameplay!
As for AA I am not disagreeing with you, I dont want it changed, I just want the anti-greiving mechanics that AA has to do what they want it to do.
I also agree with you about the wow clones, I wont buy anything even remotly like it again. My ship sank with FFXIV with hopes of getting a good quality PvE game.
AA PvE's does excite me though because open world bosses with FFA PvP, can be epic. I just hope they have a diversity of content, Open world bosses, open world dungeons, instanced dungeons and instanced bosses. large raids small raids etc etc. Diversity is a lost art.
But I can tell you right now without a doubt that if AA anti greiving mechanic dont work, AA servers will look like MO or DF servers population wise. That crowd is a cancer these days, this isnt the days of UO where communities were tight nit, and people actually took pride in their reputation and characters. This is the WoW era where community is non existant. I have been apart of both era's. The FFA pvp is the smallest niche market out there.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
If community will be the biggest of AA's problems I'll be a happy pony.
Right on.
Some of the games I've enjoyed most had some of the worst communities, but in-game that impacted me exactly not at all, because one of the first things I do in any MMO is disable the non-say, non-party, non-private channels—because no matter how great the community is, a sufficiently populated channel has a collective IQ under 85.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
Open world FFA PVP isn't a niche crowd. Hell, if you don't believe me check out DayZ, or hell even Call of Duty, seems pretty popular eh? A ton of people love killing other players, period. Problem is the vocal minority of PVEers always trying to convince devs that the majority of players are too scared of this style of game. Real hardcore pvpers are stuck playing FPS games due to simple lack of options.
PVP players don't choose FPS games because they don't have options, they don't support options because they don't want to build their character. I can't comment on DayZ but CoD isn't an MMO. You don't invest time in a game to have it ruined by someone else. If you die you respawn with new armor and a new gun and full ammo. If you lose your match, you start a new one. CoD players wouldn't be very happy if everytime they respawned they were naked, not even a knife and 1 person or a small group of people controlled all the weapon spawn points. Most of them also wouldn't like being unfairly matched vs opponents as can happen from younger less equipped players in MMOs. Some players like the challenge and take up the gauntlet. Other players ride to the rescue of the underpriveleged. These players are a minority compared to the griefer base.
I'm not asking ArcheAge to change, just hoping they are willing to accomodate both sides. I really don't see any chance the justice system will work. Griefers will wear the criminal tag as a badge of honor. Maybe if you can build fortresses with NPC guards (of sufficient strength) then a group of individuals can band together to defend their territory but having 1 or 2 people come by when your off line and destroy everything you've build just isn't worth playing.
Open world FFA PVP isn't a niche crowd. Hell, if you don't believe me check out DayZ, or hell even Call of Duty, seems pretty popular eh? A ton of people love killing other players, period. Problem is the vocal minority of PVEers always trying to convince devs that the majority of players are too scared of this style of game. Real hardcore pvpers are stuck playing FPS games due to simple lack of options.
PVP players don't choose FPS games because they don't have options, they don't support options because they don't want to build their character. I can't comment on DayZ but CoD isn't an MMO. You don't invest time in a game to have it ruined by someone else. If you die you respawn with new armor and a new gun and full ammo. If you lose your match, you start a new one. CoD players wouldn't be very happy if everytime they respawned they were naked, not even a knife and 1 person or a small group of people controlled all the weapon spawn points. Most of them also wouldn't like being unfairly matched vs opponents as can happen from younger less equipped players in MMOs. Some players like the challenge and take up the gauntlet. Other players ride to the rescue of the underpriveleged. These players are a minority compared to the griefer base.
I'm not asking ArcheAge to change, just hoping they are willing to accomodate both sides. I really don't see any chance the justice system will work. Griefers will wear the criminal tag as a badge of honor. Maybe if you can build fortresses with NPC guards (of sufficient strength) then a group of individuals can band together to defend their territory but having 1 or 2 people come by when your off line and destroy everything you've build just isn't worth playing.
This is probably the perfect example of why some PVP-based MMOs don't work. If you can't advance and develop your character because theres a bunch of people who have way more time, organization, and resources on their hands to level up, create a gang, and go around griefing you, you're out of luck.
I often wonder if those people who claim that they are "hard-core PVPers" would find it exciting to spend their time in the highlighted state above. If they can serious call that a big better challenge then yeah I'd call them true hard-core PVPers because they accept the risks and don't mind being at a disadvantage to quench their killer thirst. I know there are some FPS players who go around killing people with knives or major handicaps, so I assume there are some like that out there.
Tera had this issue at launch on PVP servers because a bunch of early entry people ganged up and closed off Lumbertown by occupying the bridges to grief camp. Loads of fun when you are stuck in town with no way of actually playing. You don't pay to watch someone prevent you from playing.
Like many said its about balance or equal oppurtunity. The problem with MMOs in oppose to FPS games is that progress is required to be viable in play. Its not like everyone is always equal. If someone gets more time to level, grind out gear, or have progression, and they turn griefer, they run a bigger chance of ruining the game for a lot of other players. Contrary to what PVPers say in MMOs its not skill, its time invested. You could liken it to a player who uses illegal mods or cheats in an FPS game to gain an advantage over others (although I'm referring to the advantage not the cheating...mostly). Most Hard-Core people presented with this scenario chime in with the "so go level up and kill him"...how are you suppose to do that when he's preventing you from progressing?
In older PVP games thats just how it use to be. I remember in Asheron's Call rolling a character and being dropped into the world...and spawning right in front of a griefer who was camping the starting spot. His greeting: "Welcome to AC, time to die!". I did just that. Yeah wonderful introduction to a game. Anyone who plays AC knows you drop everything when you die. Not fun.
Newer games have restrictions on FFA PVP specifically to prevent such starter trauma.
BTW, this was a lot longer than I intended. Sorry for making your eyes bleed if you actually read this.
It really depends on what gamer-base the publisher advertises to.
I suspect if they advertise to a bunch of casual only- type players (and ArcheAge was made by a guy who liked Warcraft so more than likely) then I can assure you the quality of the game-play will go down quicker than a drive-through at Mcdonalds.
How the game is promoted does really count and it'll be the main basis of what sticks through the game's shelf-life.
But since the game is not action RPG it'll probably chase all the players from TERA away who are right now on a facade high having to play a game that operates like an action game but is online mmo.
Comments
I am really intrerested in how they handle open world raid bosses. That could be the making for some truely epic fights, just think PvPvE
. However I think that varity is the key, I dont think its smart to make every raid boss open world. I hate instances though but make something like a portal system where only guild/alliance can use it. I am a strong believer that viartity and diversity is the key to long term sucess of PvE content. This T1,T2,T3 garbage is pathetic, its why these themeparks die off so fast. Id love to see a PvE end-game like XI had in AA. I could only imagine what it would have been like fighting some of the open world bosses if XI had open world PvP. I dont know that anyone would have actually ever killed one of the king raid bosses. Due to the players killing each other first 
.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Until Trammal hit, UO subs were falling. The person you quoted is touching upon the subject.
Folks not wanting to PVP arent going to look kindly on being someone elses E-sport. Once EQ hit, and folks had the option to not be griefed, it was game on for themeparks.
Giving players the power to drive off other players is the stupidest game mechanic of them all IMO. There is always that one jackass that has to fuck with others. IN a themepark that person wont be noticed. In a sandbox, devs better hope the damage to the playerbase is minimal.
Sandboxes are their own worst enemy. I wont touch them in the MMO realm, but there are folks that would if they could craft/PVE in peace. If Jake Song is smart, he will make a game for all to enjoy since he seems to be aiming for all this sandbox content.
If the game is world wide FFA, I dont expect it will do very well in NA. In Asia though, I would imagine world wide FFA will go over pretty good.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
This^
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If anything ruins ArcheAge it will likely be a F2P model
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
-The MMO Forum Community
Actually the main argument I hear from PVE players regarding PvP even existing in a game is that in order to balance PvP you need to balance classes which affect the PVE'ers who never intend to step foot in a warzone.
As of now, none of this will affect ArcheAge anyway as it mainly has an RvR ruleset restricting PvP to certain zones
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
-The MMO Forum Community
From what i know, sieges are only in the 3rd continent, but can you still kill other players and destroy or steal their boats, houses, mounts, etc in the 2 other continents?
I have done a bit of research on house building and farming, because that's something that I tend to enjoy doing in games, where possible. How farming and house building would work is you can build a house and a farm, but it's entirely possible that another player or group of players could come along and destroy it. In order to play with the more sandboxy feature, you have to accept the possibility of the losing everything you've built up. If you're offline and not there when it happens, tough cookies. Your stuff will just be gone.
I'm not sure how much this holds true for other stuff though. This would be enough to turn me off of the game. I'm waiting to see how it actually plays out in game though. We don't even know if the Eastern and Western versions of the game will operate under the same rule sets or not.
** edit **
From what I read, the house building and farming were restricted to the third continent. No houses or farming on the other two continents.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Details are sketchy but you're correct, its just the criminal system which will effectively (?) nerf PvP outside of the 3rd continent
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
-The MMO Forum Community
Thanks for the response. Not very happy to hear this. But i'll have to see the full system and game before jump the shark.
Open world FFA PVP isn't a niche crowd. Hell, if you don't believe me check out DayZ, or hell even Call of Duty, seems pretty popular eh? A ton of people love killing other players, period. Problem is the vocal minority of PVEers always trying to convince devs that the majority of players are too scared of this style of game. Real hardcore pvpers are stuck playing FPS games due to simple lack of options.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
FFA PVP is a niche mechanic, and doesnt appear it will change anytime soon. Of all game mechanics used in MMOs, FFA is one of the least utiliized among NA subs. Eastern subs dont mind so much, but then again their subs are worth what? 50 cents a month is probably pretty close when compared to the 15 bucks a NA sub brings.
Until FFA Devs figure out a way to keep folks from chasing the lambs off, it will always remain niche. Hard to grow a market when new gamers can be griefed to the point of leaving. It was no mistake that UO grew in numbers once Trammel was introduced.
There is no problem liking things others do not, just dont kid yourself when it comes to estimating its popularity. CoD offers players PVP on an equal footing. MMOs do not. You give noobs an equal chance to win against the lvled up griefers, and things will be different.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
For once I kinda agree with MMOexposed.
*checks the sky to see if it's falling*
FFA games in the East don't really have the kind of Players that spend 90% of their time trying to make other Players ragequit. I assume there is a lot of 1-on-1 requests for a fair fight, then a lot of bowing afterwards. It's a culture thing.
The west, on the other hand, is a bunch of drooling CoD4 cockmongers that - given the chance - would scream into their mic solely to make ears bleed. There is no sense of honor (in the greater community, that is), and they don't treat a game world as if there are reputations to uphold. As far as they are concerned, it's just a persistant version of Team Deathmatch.
~Now, what *I* assume will be the hardest factor for the west to deal with would be the Eastern art style/aesthetics. People get really mouthy about "things looking too Asian", like we still have some kind of staunch nationalism issues, like we did back in the days of the cold war. I wouldn't call it racism, but it's close. The west just tends to put up an emotional wall when it comes to any kind of product from the east, even cuisine (if they are *that* much of an asshole). It's likely just how western culture (read: Americans) is.
(this all coming from one of them)
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
If people are concerned about some of the CORE gameplay mechanics this MMO is employing maybe you should find a new game that fits your gaming needs. Sorry it is incredibly annoying that a developer is finally stepping outside of the WoW box and have people complain that it is not like every other AAA MMO that has hit the market the past couple of years. If you are a carebear and are concerned about being griefed or losing your items play a different game. I played Ultima Online for many years and what some people dont seem to understand is that yes griefers do run amok but players also rise up against the griefers and fight back. Each server was unique in that you had notorious player killers but groups of players also created anti-pk groups which kept things interesting . If this game launches in the west with FFA pvp and full loot history will repeat itself and have PK's and people who hunt down the PK's which will create a fun and unique server story, a lot better then some dev created quest that has you collect 10 cow testicles!
Oh where to start with this nonsensical fecies. Developers have stepped outside the box before. You have Mortal online and Darkfall online. How about they step further outside the box and have controlled meaning PvP. (more on this later)
Oh now the post is complete with the typical deragatory term "carebear" being thrown around. btw they do play different games, and then your beloved game becomes a ghost town. No one wants to be constantly grieved, and I am gad you brough up UO. Then amount of greivers in a game then compared to now is not even in the same ball park. The MMO demographic has exploded since then like we are all aware of. For every 1 greiver in the UO days, you have now have 50 in todays era. The PK "hunters" hasnt scaled equally, or even close. Its severly lopsided now.
AA does not have full loot, it has controlled FFA PVP. I say controlled because there is an anti-greiving system in place. How well it works? I have no clue, it sounds good on paper, but if the penalty for becoming an "outlaw" is nothing more than a slap on the wrist, then you will get your wish the "carebears will leave and then the PK'ers will get bored and leave, and the game will be down to a couple dead servers in no time. Just like all other ffa pvp games.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Mortal Online and Darkfall are not AAA titles, they tried to cash in by fulfilling a niche that mainstream developers will not go after because they are all busy chasing the big WoW rainbow, how is that working out for those companies the past couple of years? No one has really made a AAA MMO since WoW has been released that is doing what ArcheAge is doing, using FFA PvP. So you using Mortal Online and Darkfall as part of your reasoning why FFA games cannot do well in this market is not exactly fair because they have had much less financial backing than some of its competition which is using themepark mechanics.
As for being constantly griefed if youve never played a game like Ultima Online you would not know how things worked and went down and I am not denying people griefed in UO but the truth is in almost any online game you will have people that enjoy making others rage thats just the way it is and it will never change. But by using FFA pvp mechanics you open up the gameplay and make it much more exciting and personal to the players on the server in my opinion.
My point remains if people do not want FFA PvP which potentially opens up people to be griefed I can recommend a couple dozen MMO's that you would never have to worry about that, leave AA the way it is for the people who want to enjoy that style of gameplay!
As for AA I am not disagreeing with you, I dont want it changed, I just want the anti-greiving mechanics that AA has to do what they want it to do.
I also agree with you about the wow clones, I wont buy anything even remotly like it again. My ship sank with FFXIV with hopes of getting a good quality PvE game.
AA PvE's does excite me though because open world bosses with FFA PvP, can be epic. I just hope they have a diversity of content, Open world bosses, open world dungeons, instanced dungeons and instanced bosses. large raids small raids etc etc. Diversity is a lost art.
But I can tell you right now without a doubt that if AA anti greiving mechanic dont work, AA servers will look like MO or DF servers population wise. That crowd is a cancer these days, this isnt the days of UO where communities were tight nit, and people actually took pride in their reputation and characters. This is the WoW era where community is non existant. I have been apart of both era's. The FFA pvp is the smallest niche market out there.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Right on.
Some of the games I've enjoyed most had some of the worst communities, but in-game that impacted me exactly not at all, because one of the first things I do in any MMO is disable the non-say, non-party, non-private channels—because no matter how great the community is, a sufficiently populated channel has a collective IQ under 85.
PVP players don't choose FPS games because they don't have options, they don't support options because they don't want to build their character. I can't comment on DayZ but CoD isn't an MMO. You don't invest time in a game to have it ruined by someone else. If you die you respawn with new armor and a new gun and full ammo. If you lose your match, you start a new one. CoD players wouldn't be very happy if everytime they respawned they were naked, not even a knife and 1 person or a small group of people controlled all the weapon spawn points. Most of them also wouldn't like being unfairly matched vs opponents as can happen from younger less equipped players in MMOs. Some players like the challenge and take up the gauntlet. Other players ride to the rescue of the underpriveleged. These players are a minority compared to the griefer base.
I'm not asking ArcheAge to change, just hoping they are willing to accomodate both sides. I really don't see any chance the justice system will work. Griefers will wear the criminal tag as a badge of honor. Maybe if you can build fortresses with NPC guards (of sufficient strength) then a group of individuals can band together to defend their territory but having 1 or 2 people come by when your off line and destroy everything you've build just isn't worth playing.
This is probably the perfect example of why some PVP-based MMOs don't work. If you can't advance and develop your character because theres a bunch of people who have way more time, organization, and resources on their hands to level up, create a gang, and go around griefing you, you're out of luck.
I often wonder if those people who claim that they are "hard-core PVPers" would find it exciting to spend their time in the highlighted state above. If they can serious call that a big better challenge then yeah I'd call them true hard-core PVPers because they accept the risks and don't mind being at a disadvantage to quench their killer thirst. I know there are some FPS players who go around killing people with knives or major handicaps, so I assume there are some like that out there.
Tera had this issue at launch on PVP servers because a bunch of early entry people ganged up and closed off Lumbertown by occupying the bridges to grief camp. Loads of fun when you are stuck in town with no way of actually playing. You don't pay to watch someone prevent you from playing.
Like many said its about balance or equal oppurtunity. The problem with MMOs in oppose to FPS games is that progress is required to be viable in play. Its not like everyone is always equal. If someone gets more time to level, grind out gear, or have progression, and they turn griefer, they run a bigger chance of ruining the game for a lot of other players. Contrary to what PVPers say in MMOs its not skill, its time invested. You could liken it to a player who uses illegal mods or cheats in an FPS game to gain an advantage over others (although I'm referring to the advantage not the cheating...mostly). Most Hard-Core people presented with this scenario chime in with the "so go level up and kill him"...how are you suppose to do that when he's preventing you from progressing?
In older PVP games thats just how it use to be. I remember in Asheron's Call rolling a character and being dropped into the world...and spawning right in front of a griefer who was camping the starting spot. His greeting: "Welcome to AC, time to die!". I did just that. Yeah wonderful introduction to a game. Anyone who plays AC knows you drop everything when you die. Not fun.
Newer games have restrictions on FFA PVP specifically to prevent such starter trauma.
BTW, this was a lot longer than I intended. Sorry for making your eyes bleed if you actually read this.
It really depends on what gamer-base the publisher advertises to.
I suspect if they advertise to a bunch of casual only- type players (and ArcheAge was made by a guy who liked Warcraft so more than likely) then I can assure you the quality of the game-play will go down quicker than a drive-through at Mcdonalds.
How the game is promoted does really count and it'll be the main basis of what sticks through the game's shelf-life.
But since the game is not action RPG it'll probably chase all the players from TERA away who are right now on a facade high having to play a game that operates like an action game but is online mmo.