sorry for me risk vs. reward is how hard the game is because if its easy there is no reward. The never ending gear grind that most mmo's put you through to me is like treating you hamster on a wheel in other words as a adorable moron. But hey at least wow kisses you first before well yunno.......
Originally posted by Gorilla Originally posted by GosuRusha510 How is that fun? with no rewards?....what ever happen to risk and reward?
A +427 sword of toss is not a reward when you already have a +425 sword of the hamster. Where is the 'risk' in running the same instance time and time again to get 'geared up' to run the next instance time and time again. Leave the wheel running to the hamsters. That is not content and is a flawed model too.
I wouldnt call it a flawed model. Lots of people like that model. Just like lots of people like GW2's model. I used to love the gear grind. Its just not for me anymore.
I should have added IMHO to the flawed model bit, though clearly Bliz keep those wheels turning.
Another activity that I think will prove very popular is WvWvW in the mists...if they get it right of course. Lots to risk and the spoils of war to the victors!
How is that fun? with no rewards?....what ever happen to risk and reward?
A +427 sword of toss is not a reward when you already have a +425 sword of the hamster. Where is the 'risk' in running the same instance time and time again to get 'geared up' to run the next instance time and time again. Leave the wheel running to the hamsters. That is not content and is a flawed model too.
I wouldnt call it a flawed model. Lots of people like that model. Just like lots of people like GW2's model. I used to love the gear grind. Its just not for me anymore.
If those people would've been offered both options (models) from the start would they still prefer it and love it as much or are they sorta brainwashed because every big game had it and that was the only thing to work to reward wise and content wise?
There is not point. GW2 is a casual MMO, even when is hard to believe for the gw2 fans, it will be pretty much a 2nd MMO or game for most of their playerbase. People trying to play it like a real MMO will get bored pretty fast.
There is not point. GW2 is a casual MMO, even when is hard to believe for the gw2 fans, it will be pretty much a 2nd MMO or game for most of their playerbase. People trying to play it like a real MMO will get bored pretty fast.
Yup it's so casual that I saw tons of dead people wherever I went as opposed to all more traditional mmo' s where you have to go afk or do really stupid pulls to be able to get any challenge and die.
To me it means I can log in and not feel like it's a second job like I felt in WoW, with dailies/raiding. I can finally sit down at the end of an evening and just have fun playing, knowing I don't have to do the gear grind ever in GW2. I can actually have fun again like I use to with DAOC, AC1 and UO.
The most appropriate answer is "because it's fun". That's what ArenaNet is always asking about anything in Guild Wars 2, at least if you believe them.
You could think of it as the overall fun factor. If it's fun for 10 people, and doesn't impact the others, it's okay. If it's fun for 1000000 people, but 1000 dislike it - while it's unfortunately that someone dislikes it, you can't please everyone, and overally it's fun.
The question is where they put the threshold, and if they really know whats fun for who. So far it seems there are no real problems regarding this.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
There is not point. GW2 is a casual MMO, even when is hard to believe for the gw2 fans, it will be pretty much a 2nd MMO or game for most of their playerbase. People trying to play it like a real MMO will get bored pretty fast.
Yup it's so casual that I saw tons of dead people wherever I went as opposed to all more traditional mmo' s where you have to go afk or do really stupid pulls to be able to get any challenge and die.
casual and easy are too different things. gw2 is a cuasual game in that you can play at your leisure.
The point is to uncover the answer for questions that humanity asked since it's begining. Where do we come from, where are we heading and what makes our existance meaningful....
Could as well ask "what's the point of getting better gear from dungeons if all it gives you is ability to run different dungeons. Those are games for f-sake. You are suppoed to have fun playing them. If you find it fun to grind gear to overcome the artificial gating mechanism of tiers - play a game that has just that. Plenty of those around.
There is not point. GW2 is a casual MMO, even when is hard to believe for the gw2 fans, it will be pretty much a 2nd MMO or game for most of their playerbase. People trying to play it like a real MMO will get bored pretty fast.
Yup it's so casual that I saw tons of dead people wherever I went as opposed to all more traditional mmo' s where you have to go afk or do really stupid pulls to be able to get any challenge and die.
casual and easy are too different things. gw2 is a cuasual game in that you can play at your leisure.
I agree to that but too many folks I met seem to still classify casual games as too easy just because there's no raids which are the toughest content in those gear grind raid progression / dungeon crawling games and require organisation and commitment (or being carried). They're just not worthy playing to them because anything less than a raid can't possibly offer any challenge.
So I just made a stupid reply with that in mind to a stupid post of somebody not offering any reasoning behind his judgement.
The point is to uncover the answer for questions that humanity asked since it's begining. Where do we come from, where are we heading and what makes our existance meaningful....
Could as well ask "what's the point of getting better gear from dungeons if all it gives you is ability to run different dungeons. Those are games for f-sake. You are suppoed to have fun playing them. If you find it fun to grind gear to overcome the artificial gating mechanism of tiers - play a game that has just that. Plenty of those around.
And thats why GW2 will be a 2nd game, and a B2P MMO.
The main point is for PvP. I probably won't be heavy on PvE, and I'll do a lot of PvP and stuff. Tha'll be fun. But yeah, if there's not much of a point, people are going to quit. And hopefully with boxed sales they'll have more funding to do content updates and stuff, but probably not. We'll find out.
The same group of players that hate questing and running the same content over and over and over again in every other mmo are the same players who hail GW2 as the second coming...
The same group of players that hate questing and running the same content over and over and over again in every other mmo are the same players who hail GW2 as the second coming...
That defines strange to me.
can you elaborate on why that is strange? i have given up questing in MMOs for quite some time now and am loving GW2 so far. I am one of those people you speak of and do not understand what is strange about it.
What's the point of doing instances at low level and at 80 over and over, if gear doesn't matter?
No one ever said "gear doesn't matter", and anyone who did tell you that either doesn't know anything about the game, or else is trolling...
Here is the deal. Any gear at any given level is equivalently powerful to any other gear at the same level. That does not mean the stat distribution or the look is the same. So it is almost always possible to find a piece of gear that better suits your build/playstyle than another piece of gear, or a piece of gear that you prefer the look of... That being said, a lvl 80 using a piece of lvl 80 gear will be more powerful than a lvl 80 using a piece of lvl 60 gear...
If you want to see a perfect example of what I am talking about go to the wiki and look up amulets.
I can grab a carrion amulet that gives 798 condition damage, 569 power, and 569 vitality, and someone else might grab a soldier's amulet which gives them 798 power, 569 toughness, and 569 vitality... Both amulets are equivalent, but one suits a condition build better and the other suits a tanky build better... Most of the gear is like that.
So now we know that there are 3 incentives:
1)Get gear that is better suited to your build(though not more powerful)
2)Get gear that looks better
3)Help someone else get gear better suited to their build or gear that looks better
Beyond that, dungeons are and instances are fun, and are supposed to be fun. Each dungeon has at least 5 modes, I believe... 1 story and 4 explorable... all different from each other. So if you run each of them just twice, that is 10 runs per dungeon. What are the odds you are only going to run a dungeon twice, if it is enjoyable? I remember running UBRS often in vanilla wow, even though I didn't need anything there... Why? because I enjoyed it. Same thing with wailing caverns. I used to take groups through there starting at lvl 13 when I had a new char, and used to run groups through with my higher lvl chars when I was higher level... because I liked it.
The same group of players that hate questing and running the same content over and over and over again in every other mmo are the same players who hail GW2 as the second coming...
That defines strange to me.
can you elaborate on why that is strange? i have given up questing in MMOs for quite some time now and am loving GW2 so far. I am one of those people you speak of and do not understand what is strange about it.
It's simple.
GW2 will have players run the same content over and over again like every other MMO only this time you won't get any viable reward for your efforts. If GW2 had a sub it willl fail due to this fact.
The main point is for PvP. I probably won't be heavy on PvE, and I'll do a lot of PvP and stuff. Tha'll be fun. But yeah, if there's not much of a point, people are going to quit. And hopefully with boxed sales they'll have more funding to do content updates and stuff, but probably not. We'll find out.
It helps PvE too. If gear doesn't matter as much in PvE then it becomes much easier to keep content at certain difficulty levels. Gear grind games normally get issues where the PvE community likes to isolate themselves from players without enough gear, because the ease of doing content improves. I think the people screaming for harder content might be able to get it if ArenaNet can play their cards right.
The same group of players that hate questing and running the same content over and over and over again in every other mmo are the same players who hail GW2 as the second coming...
That defines strange to me.
can you elaborate on why that is strange? i have given up questing in MMOs for quite some time now and am loving GW2 so far. I am one of those people you speak of and do not understand what is strange about it.
It's simple.
GW2 will have players run the same content over and over again like every other MMO only this time you won't get any viable reward for your efforts. If GW2 had a sub it willl fail due to this fact.
thanks, understand your point now.
doesn't really apply to me as i feel the reward is viable as far as i am personally concerned. and i disagree that "players run the same content over and over again like every other MMO."
the reason i have given up questing in other MMOs in the past is because a game like, Tera for instance.. puts you in a starter area and has you do all of the quests there in order before you move on to the next area and do all of the quests there in order and so on until the end when i usually quit the game.
the whole thing is absurdly linear and feels more like i'm playing super mario brothers 1 than an RPG. this is just my personal perspective! nothing against mario i just don't like games that linear. i'm more of an ultima 7 type of player.
GW2 may not be an open ended sandbox like ultima online but at least i can choose to not do some quests i'm not interested in, do the quests in completely different orders, do higher level quests and then go back to lower level ones later, or skip doing quests all together and still level to max. this is where the "like every other MMO" part is i disagree with you on.
few games give you those options. i certainly wouldn't say "ever other MMO" gives me those options.
The same group of players that hate questing and running the same content over and over and over again in every other mmo are the same players who hail GW2 as the second coming...
That defines strange to me.
can you elaborate on why that is strange? i have given up questing in MMOs for quite some time now and am loving GW2 so far. I am one of those people you speak of and do not understand what is strange about it.
It's simple.
GW2 will have players run the same content over and over again like every other MMO only this time you won't get any viable reward for your efforts. If GW2 had a sub it willl fail due to this fact.
Not only that but only if you want it.
And by doing whatever you want in game and not just raids or PvP.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
You can get vanity gear. You get skill points after leveling past 80, apparnetly. And who knows what else ANet has in store for "endgame".
One thing I'll note is that you do not need to do instances at level 80 to level for skill points. Any activity will earn you decent XP, gold, karma. The instances probably provide some more unique armor or other things, and perhaps superior experience, but that's not certain. You can also just do WvW or sPvP.
With the skill points, you apparently can get vanity gear, and some other things.
Furthermore, the meta events - instances are supposed to be fun. They do provide rewards like money, experience, dungeon tokens, gear and crafting components... maybe there's some other more hidden stuff in the game, who knows. Maybe some titles and achievements.
There is not point. GW2 is a casual MMO, even when is hard to believe for the gw2 fans, it will be pretty much a 2nd MMO or game for most of their playerbase. People trying to play it like a real MMO will get bored pretty fast.
I'll have to play it with another game like Star Wars. But yeah, I'm going to be rushing the content when it first comes out. From there, I'll reach endgame and do PvP a few nights a week and stuff.
Comments
sorry for me risk vs. reward is how hard the game is because if its easy there is no reward. The never ending gear grind that most mmo's put you through to me is like treating you hamster on a wheel in other words as a adorable moron. But hey at least wow kisses you first before well yunno.......
A +427 sword of toss is not a reward when you already have a +425 sword of the hamster. Where is the 'risk' in running the same instance time and time again to get 'geared up' to run the next instance time and time again. Leave the wheel running to the hamsters. That is not content and is a flawed model too.I wouldnt call it a flawed model. Lots of people like that model. Just like lots of people like GW2's model. I used to love the gear grind. Its just not for me anymore.
I should have added IMHO to the flawed model bit, though clearly Bliz keep those wheels turning.Another activity that I think will prove very popular is WvWvW in the mists...if they get it right of course. Lots to risk and the spoils of war to the victors!
People in real life will like you better, it's much easer to get a good job. Tell them you play GW2 !!
If those people would've been offered both options (models) from the start would they still prefer it and love it as much or are they sorta brainwashed because every big game had it and that was the only thing to work to reward wise and content wise?
There is not point. GW2 is a casual MMO, even when is hard to believe for the gw2 fans, it will be pretty much a 2nd MMO or game for most of their playerbase. People trying to play it like a real MMO will get bored pretty fast.
Yup it's so casual that I saw tons of dead people wherever I went as opposed to all more traditional mmo' s where you have to go afk or do really stupid pulls to be able to get any challenge and die.
To me it means I can log in and not feel like it's a second job like I felt in WoW, with dailies/raiding. I can finally sit down at the end of an evening and just have fun playing, knowing I don't have to do the gear grind ever in GW2. I can actually have fun again like I use to with DAOC, AC1 and UO.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
The most appropriate answer is "because it's fun". That's what ArenaNet is always asking about anything in Guild Wars 2, at least if you believe them.
You could think of it as the overall fun factor. If it's fun for 10 people, and doesn't impact the others, it's okay. If it's fun for 1000000 people, but 1000 dislike it - while it's unfortunately that someone dislikes it, you can't please everyone, and overally it's fun.
The question is where they put the threshold, and if they really know whats fun for who. So far it seems there are no real problems regarding this.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
casual and easy are too different things. gw2 is a cuasual game in that you can play at your leisure.
The point is to uncover the answer for questions that humanity asked since it's begining. Where do we come from, where are we heading and what makes our existance meaningful....
Could as well ask "what's the point of getting better gear from dungeons if all it gives you is ability to run different dungeons. Those are games for f-sake. You are suppoed to have fun playing them. If you find it fun to grind gear to overcome the artificial gating mechanism of tiers - play a game that has just that. Plenty of those around.
I agree to that but too many folks I met seem to still classify casual games as too easy just because there's no raids which are the toughest content in those gear grind raid progression / dungeon crawling games and require organisation and commitment (or being carried). They're just not worthy playing to them because anything less than a raid can't possibly offer any challenge.
So I just made a stupid reply with that in mind to a stupid post of somebody not offering any reasoning behind his judgement.
And thats why GW2 will be a 2nd game, and a B2P MMO.
The main point is for PvP. I probably won't be heavy on PvE, and I'll do a lot of PvP and stuff. Tha'll be fun. But yeah, if there's not much of a point, people are going to quit. And hopefully with boxed sales they'll have more funding to do content updates and stuff, but probably not. We'll find out.
The same group of players that hate questing and running the same content over and over and over again in every other mmo are the same players who hail GW2 as the second coming...
That defines strange to me.
can you elaborate on why that is strange? i have given up questing in MMOs for quite some time now and am loving GW2 so far. I am one of those people you speak of and do not understand what is strange about it.
No one ever said "gear doesn't matter", and anyone who did tell you that either doesn't know anything about the game, or else is trolling...
Here is the deal. Any gear at any given level is equivalently powerful to any other gear at the same level. That does not mean the stat distribution or the look is the same. So it is almost always possible to find a piece of gear that better suits your build/playstyle than another piece of gear, or a piece of gear that you prefer the look of... That being said, a lvl 80 using a piece of lvl 80 gear will be more powerful than a lvl 80 using a piece of lvl 60 gear...
If you want to see a perfect example of what I am talking about go to the wiki and look up amulets.
I can grab a carrion amulet that gives 798 condition damage, 569 power, and 569 vitality, and someone else might grab a soldier's amulet which gives them 798 power, 569 toughness, and 569 vitality... Both amulets are equivalent, but one suits a condition build better and the other suits a tanky build better... Most of the gear is like that.
So now we know that there are 3 incentives:
1)Get gear that is better suited to your build(though not more powerful)
2)Get gear that looks better
3)Help someone else get gear better suited to their build or gear that looks better
Beyond that, dungeons are and instances are fun, and are supposed to be fun. Each dungeon has at least 5 modes, I believe... 1 story and 4 explorable... all different from each other. So if you run each of them just twice, that is 10 runs per dungeon. What are the odds you are only going to run a dungeon twice, if it is enjoyable? I remember running UBRS often in vanilla wow, even though I didn't need anything there... Why? because I enjoyed it. Same thing with wailing caverns. I used to take groups through there starting at lvl 13 when I had a new char, and used to run groups through with my higher lvl chars when I was higher level... because I liked it.
I think you are looking at this the wrong way...
It's simple.
GW2 will have players run the same content over and over again like every other MMO only this time you won't get any viable reward for your efforts. If GW2 had a sub it willl fail due to this fact.
It helps PvE too. If gear doesn't matter as much in PvE then it becomes much easier to keep content at certain difficulty levels. Gear grind games normally get issues where the PvE community likes to isolate themselves from players without enough gear, because the ease of doing content improves. I think the people screaming for harder content might be able to get it if ArenaNet can play their cards right.
Who knows, we'll find out on August 25th.
thanks, understand your point now.
doesn't really apply to me as i feel the reward is viable as far as i am personally concerned. and i disagree that "players run the same content over and over again like every other MMO."
the reason i have given up questing in other MMOs in the past is because a game like, Tera for instance.. puts you in a starter area and has you do all of the quests there in order before you move on to the next area and do all of the quests there in order and so on until the end when i usually quit the game.
the whole thing is absurdly linear and feels more like i'm playing super mario brothers 1 than an RPG. this is just my personal perspective! nothing against mario i just don't like games that linear. i'm more of an ultima 7 type of player.
GW2 may not be an open ended sandbox like ultima online but at least i can choose to not do some quests i'm not interested in, do the quests in completely different orders, do higher level quests and then go back to lower level ones later, or skip doing quests all together and still level to max. this is where the "like every other MMO" part is i disagree with you on.
few games give you those options. i certainly wouldn't say "ever other MMO" gives me those options.
I will do it for FUN!
Not only that but only if you want it.
And by doing whatever you want in game and not just raids or PvP.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Gear never mattered. Neither did video games, for the most part. This is relevant: http://www.darklegacycomics.com/346.html
You can get vanity gear. You get skill points after leveling past 80, apparnetly. And who knows what else ANet has in store for "endgame".
One thing I'll note is that you do not need to do instances at level 80 to level for skill points. Any activity will earn you decent XP, gold, karma. The instances probably provide some more unique armor or other things, and perhaps superior experience, but that's not certain. You can also just do WvW or sPvP.
With the skill points, you apparently can get vanity gear, and some other things.
Furthermore, the meta events - instances are supposed to be fun. They do provide rewards like money, experience, dungeon tokens, gear and crafting components... maybe there's some other more hidden stuff in the game, who knows. Maybe some titles and achievements.
I'll have to play it with another game like Star Wars. But yeah, I'm going to be rushing the content when it first comes out. From there, I'll reach endgame and do PvP a few nights a week and stuff.
As with ANY game, the point is to have fun.
If you don't turn the game into a job and you are enjoying your time while logged in then mission accomplished.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!