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Where is the Social Aspect?
Razeekster
Member UncommonPosts: 2,591
I cannot for the life of me find an MMO that is social at all. Sure you have guilds, but EVERY freaking MMO has content that is all soloable besides rading and dungeons. It's a joke. If I wanted to play a solo game I would just go out and buy an RPG and not be playing MMORPGs. Yes there are some social aspects to MMORPGs but what happened to player creativity? Am I the only who misses creating user content?
Does no one remember creating entertainment in older MMOs? No one remebers creating events with other people like creating huge armies to attack the other faction or have mount races and duel events? No one remembers the politics in older MMOs? I guess what I'm complaining about is well... The players in MMOs these days. The creativity and want to interact is gone. What the hell happened?
Smile
Comments
Oh they replaced social aspects and normal community banter with...
whatever they call the socialization that occurs on 4chan.
Also they need to make the game soloable, not everyone wants to find a group or get stuck. So they make the best soloable experience they can and the add group stuff as optional content.
Most people then ignore the group stuff, since the community is right off of 4chan and busy pretending that they are a naieve alienware owner so that other people can pretend hes serious and argue with him in whatever they call the fake meme conversations that dominate chat these days.
And also these games that are solo based with optional grouping sell better...and it does make sense, you do have to appeal to casuals, appealing to hardcore games brought the term "grind" meaning anything that isnt handed to you via passing the login test.
So yeah i agree i miss the days when people were in a mindless race to endgame, where the community could discuss normal topics without everyone being a self proclained troll as an excuse to have a shit personality and people were able to organize group community stuff on a whim for no rewards other than perhaps player donated loot ect.
The games didnt have a built in race to endgame for hampsterwheel instances, gamers were normal people, and people played just to have fun not dominate everyone around them. Social aspects worked.
I remember social event occuring in darkfall, and it would always end up being outnumberd by several troll guilds who just wanted to wreck anything they could.
MMORPGs have become Single Player Social Game. What I want is a social game that is massive, player driven but with smart programming to allow it to feel like you live in a real world. Why can one man pull creative stuff out (xsyon with zombie monsters from player abandoned camps... still havent played it though... too small) and 100 manned teams be so crusty and simple minded to copy stuff or make it completely a ride with different design for so long?
I don't mean a second world game. I want high fantasy, co-operation in all features of the game, and only achievements to be the core of the game instead of gear. Achievements that can make you build a unique house or something.
Try starting events in MMOs these days and most everyone trolls you to death. It's strange to me because I always thought user generated content and events were much more fun than the content the actual MMO came out with.
Smile
who wants to interact with a bunch of guys that only talk about their "epic lootz" all night long. Do you call that social interaction??? lol. i've been in clans/guild in online gaming since 1998 and the only thing that WoW era spawned were a bunch of jerks that no one would want to talk to IRL let alone in-game.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
I've always played solo and stopped playing when it stopped being soloable.
However, as much as am a hermit, I still want to be social - I just don't want to be grouped or guilded or broadcasting in a general chat. So I tend to do all my socializing on message boards.
WoW happened. WoW appealed to people who didn't like MMOs. They didn't play to socialize, they played to get some experience and items.
For a game to encourage socializing, it needs to give rewards to people who work together. But that would "exclude" the legions of casual non MMO fans who don't like to socialize, they just want to be in their instances with NPC companions ignoring the fact that its an MMO.
It's what we have now. Singleplayer games with optional coop. Now and again you get a nice indie title that tries, but it never has the budget to follow through.
Oh well, Vanguard relaunches soon, and Darkfall gets its overhaul this year. Maybe that'll be enough.
The weird thing is, people like to pretend that old MMOs weren't possible to solo in. The only one I can think of where this was true was EverQuest. There's a difference between rewarding players for doing something more challenging (grouping) and making it impossible to solo.
Wow, there you have it, the exact reason why there is no interaction today, boiled down to 3 mangled lines with bad english. Might as well lock this one down, the beacon of reason has reared it's head....... Really do not know if I should feel sorry for you or laugh at you. Either way, yes MMO's have caught up with the instant gratification generation, I find my solace in gog.com and any shooters that appear on the radar.
it all depends on the people you play with. it is not impossible to find a social group in any game.
I thought the socalization *was* the reward?
I've got no problem being social in a game, but I've found that the majority of good, friendly, mature, intelligent people I find in games are soloers. They tend to be just decent people worth hanging around with and talking to, as opposed to the majority of groupers I find who are just too hardcore for me. They want to achieve things. They want to kill things. They want to loot things, all as fast as they possibly can. That's not how I play, that's why I don't group and frankly, why I don't hang around with people who do as a primary means of gameplay.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Player created events still do exist in some mmorpg's. Eve Online still has them. CoH still has them. Sadly, I think that's about it.
The attitude of the players has changed. Most players don't want to take a break from level grinding or gear grinding long enough to participate in a player event. Especially if there are no rewards. Gotta keep up the Jones.
The group finder utility has destroyed whatever little need for social skill was left. It has reduced the other players to a class and a number. They are completely disposable. Get rid of one then click a button and get a replacement. It's almost like hiring an NPC.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Yeah, I'm in the same boat really. The people you find to group with today take this far too seriously, I'm used to playing more for fun, (think camp grinding in DAOC) and today's more modern player is too focused on accomplishing the task and hand and moving on.
I just don't fit in with that sort of play style, so tend to stay more to myself, not out of any great desire, but just because I don't want to slow others down and spoil their enjoyment of the game either.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The truth is players that wanted a second world with its own rules and aspects met PC gamers, that just want to beat the game.
PC gamers vastly outnumber those "society" builder players - they want to log in for 30 minutes, kill a few mobs ,have fun and call it a day. if they can meet other people and have a good laugh while playing, that is a bonus.
But since the gamers vastly outnumber the society builder player type, most games, especially those with big budgets target the gamer. So the society builder, has two choices, stay in the handful of games designed for them that generally have low populations or go to the gamer games, which are attractive since it has more people to "rule" over.
And that is where we are at - a stage where the games don't have enough aspects society builders want, but still have too many aspects of that era that gamers could care less about.
It seems likely that the genre will diverge - there will be more games where grouping is optional, playing with other will just happen without formalities, the amount of time invested in the game loses importance over other factors; and we will have a handful of games targeted at the society builders, with very time consuming mechanics and grouping is key.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Voice chat?
It also makes people a lot more tame most of the time.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I say this usually but things will change.
I see it this way -
They current corporate ownerships and investors hardly know anything about what the community wants and just think about $$ and thats it (whats their job really).
But after the current "employers/employees" vanish - the new generation of staff and ownership from this generation and last generation will filter through and start creating the mmos that we as youngsters always dreamed of when WoW was dominating the mainstream of MMOs.
Think of it this way.
Billy was 15 when he played everquest/ultima - he enjoyed the complexity of the games that were there.
Billy now is 22 and studying game development and management - this being 7 years later WoW has come through and has dumbed down the MMO industry to moreso a casual environment.
Billy continuing to do his studies - now 28 (2010) he is finishing his studies and is a employee in a gaming company making MMOs - but as its 2010, games are still being dumbed down and him being a employee (lower ranked) he dosnt have a big say in the development process.
5-10 years later Billy is in his mid to late 30s and starting to have a say over the development process of MMOs and the games that the company is creating as the other higher employees either retired and or got higher/moved on.
What im saying is that we - as gamers who have had our dreams shattered by the casual input will change the outcome into another new generation of MMOs that we when we were younger wanted and knew what others wanted aswell can actually have a overall say on what will come through.
You do not build a community by allowing everyone to get everything by themselves. It's the easier road. And gamers will always take the easier rode. All they need is a little encouraging to get them out there, then they can choose to remain solo or take part in the community.
Almost all modern "MMOs" are designed to be completed either alone, or with 1-2 real life friends. That encoruages cliques, not socializing or community. The last MMO I socialized in (other than Darkfall) was Vanguard during beta, when people just gathered together to hunt random mobs and talk.
I said this elsewhere but a LOT of the fault lies with devs and the pacing of games.
As games have become faster and faster paced the time for socialization has vanished. I'm not real keen on chatting via voice either on 3d party servers or with an in game tool, but that is all most games allow time for now. There is no 'down time' between anything and nothing that isn't such a click-fest frenzy of action that you can take time to chat with anyone. Combine that with advancement pacing that allows rapid achievement and ridiculously solo friendly/auto grouping features and you are left with no reason to actually talk to anyone.
Which is why you end up with max level characters who have no idea how to play in a group and 'communitites' of players who know practically no one else in the game and have no clue on game ettiquette or behavior...
I agree with the OP. I have been asking that for quite some time. You know, a couple years back, the mighty WoW fans would have bashed the hell out of you. Your concerns do not compute in their minds. Now that sandbox or thembox MMO's are beginning to sprout, i hope the Developers don't miss out on the one single element that creates a players storyline. The ability to socialize in open chat. I'm talking popup windows galore! A pop up window over ones character has DNA were the mini chat box is hardly taken serious. This will allow layers to conduct an array of trade-offs, build character, a reputation that will proceed him. It was effective then, I can be effective tomorrow.
Trade-off includes guilds of apposing faction. They too should be allowed to communicate. Scheduling of Epic battles (not a lame colander) are created this way and the battles themselves have a personality
I would recommend researching the Incursion-runner subculture in Eve and how that community has evolved/decayed since the minigame was introduced.
As everything in life games also change and so do the gamers, its called evolution and it will happen regardless of what some people want which is stay still. My 2 cents on this is get used to it, adapt and fit in cause it is what it is plain and simple like it or not
I feel comfortable now days with solo play with some grouping if you have time.
The question is why does the game change at max level?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Don't care about social aspects.
I play games to co-op with others in dungeon adventures, designed and implemented by professional devs. 99.9% of user generated content is crap. Social in a game should consist of cooperating and fighting together. I don't want to share my life stories with strangers on the net.
Being social in a MMORPG doesn't mean being forced to group with random more or less skilled and stupid players to bash mobs together. That's actually the lowest and most simple way to interact with others in such games.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
There's an entire genre of games for that. Diablo, Torchlight, all that stuff.
MMOs are about massive numbers of people, simulated social worlds.
There's a difference between encouraging people to group, and rewarding them for it, and FORCING people to. And no, that's how communities have to begin. If everyone plays alone, there is no community. You can be social in an MMO, sure. But whether or not anyone is social back to you largely depends on the culture the MMO has cultivated, and the features will dictate what that culture is. Make your game instanced and solo? No one that likes grouping will play, no one will group, no community.
So basically, you want to play a "game". MMORPG's were much more than that at one time, not so much any more.
So you're also the poster child of anti-socialization as well, very good sir. A poster of many talents it would seem.
edit: Remember what Will Rogers said, ""A stranger is just a friend I haven't met yet."
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon