When there is no need or requirement to socialize, no one will socialize.
My experience that required me to socialize is FFXI, and that was trying to socialize through Language Barriers. Was it tedious, yes, but it added to my experience when we pull off attacks and figured out how to talk to each other. For those who doesn't know, FFXI requires you to be groups to advance.
Its human nature to take the easy way out, when the tools are there but without a need to use them, Personally I tend to do what is easiest for me at my convenience.
Until some Developers takes the chance and decided to make an game where you have to talk and form Guilds, and groups to advance or face Solo Challenges where everything is extra hard but doable. This will never change.
When you can advance to the top ranks Solo, I can say almost 100% will do so, because it will be the most convenient.
I would say that FFXI community is more tight nit than most, probably because they have to rely on eachother to get the job done. But it is also the most harsh, mainly because everyone would know if you are skillful or not and if you are a NOOB or not.
I truly believe games are being too friendly, they are no longer taking chances like they used to.
Humans are social creatures, we just need a reason to do it.
None of that has to do with socializing. Your problem there is you, not the game. You have not once expressed in this thread a genuine interest in making new friends or meeting new people, only in having tools to force others to play with you to reach a certain goal. Your entire argument has consistently been a solo/group issue, with little, if anything, to do with wanting to actually talk to another human being, only to need them to progress in the game.
What I was trying to say was that when there is a need for people to socialize and to communicate to achieve a certain goal, people will socialize and communicate. But you are correct that it is a forced socialization, not an voluntary one.
You made a very correct statement, in the old days, those that plays does have the same interests but they aren't necessary nerds, they just have similiar tastes, so it was easier for them to play together and hang online.
When the whole world is populated with todays generation of Facebook and Twitter where socialization is the norm, it shoulnd't be that hard to get people to socialize again. It just seems that MMO is where people can go to not socialize. And its just interesting how it turned out to be like that.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
When there is no need or requirement to socialize, no one will socialize.
You're talking about forced socializing, that's not a voluntary thing. The only thing you'll do is drive players away from the game. People who want to socialize will socialize no matter how the game is set up. People who do not want to socialize will not socialize no matter how the game is set up.
Way back in the day, when most people who played these games were nerds, socializing was easy, everyone had something in common. You could always find someone to talk about the latest movies or TV shows or comics. I don't know if I was ever in a group where every single person in the group couldn't quote Monty Python and the Holy Grail from memory.
That's just not the kind of world we live in now and it's never coming back.
I used to sit in the square on Anarchy Online and craft for people for free, for hours and hours at a time. You want something made? Bring me the materials and I'll do it. You want a buff? Swing by and I'll give it to you. No cost. It started out great, I'd get to chat with people all day long. Then the population started to change, people started acting like I *OWED* them free stuff. They stopped asking and started demanding. I stopped doing.
Same with groups. Instead of being a fun experience, people stopped caring about anyone else. Grouping was all about using others to get your own loot. You need something? You need help? Get a group together, use them so long as they're useful, then bail. Making grouping mandatory isn't going to change the group experience.
Like it or not, you cannot force people to be the kind of people you want them to be. The kind of socializing that we had back in UO and EQ is gone forever and there is nothing you, or anyone else, can do to bring it back.
A very sad state of affairs indeed. Hence why they call it the "me generation".
I have not given up hope that we can have that older mentality back though.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
It's funny, I log into Fallen Earth about once a month these days. The first Saturday of the month, to be precise, for the Crafter's Fair in New Flagstaff. A player created and run multi-hour monthly event that is great fun to observe.
Before FE's long and sad decline into its current state, there were a great many such events, many of them weekly -- somewhat ironic, given that the game is otherwise the least social I've ever played. I suspect had Icarus or, later, G1st, done anything other than basically telling RPers to bugger off, the game would be in much better shape than it is today.
In any event, it's hardly the only example. While it's been a couple of years since I played the game, in WoW I used to keep alliance characters on Kirin Tor -- an RP server, granted -- mostly because during any in-game holiday -- especially Easter or Halloween -- Goldshire turned into a 24/7 party town. I suppose it doesn't count because it's WoW, but it was quite amusing to watch.
Champions Online is another I've played where player interaction and socializing, at least if you bother to look for it, is non-stop. LoTRO, yet another.
Nothing happened to the social aspect, it's quite alive and well, it's just not forced on anyone -- which, bizarrely, seems to be the real complaint. If you wish to socialize I dare say you can find plenty of like-minded folk, and an active community of same, in most, if not all, games. You just won't have it shoved down your throat, probably because most devs learned long ago that the vast majority are just there to have fun, not live a second life.
The days of having "the social aspect" forced upon you if you want to play the game, are long gone. If it comes down to it, a choice between those who want others to be forced to play their 'social' -- it's nothing of the sort, really, not if it has to be forced -- way and those who just want to log in and run a dungeon, it's not even a question as to which would win. Deal with it, bury yourself in nostalgia and the false superiority of those who walked uphill both ways in ten feet of snow, and, if you really want a social aspect to your gaming, look around, find it, or start a group yourself.
In games where people are encouraged to play/interact/react to others (the point of MMOs more or less), it will attract more social people. The more social people together in one place creates a lasting community that attracts more and more social people. The end result is a social game where finding groups and friendly players is easy.
Making a game that actively discourages socializing and grouping... will result in people that like those two things, not playing. Thus, while there is nothing stopping you from going out of your way to find friends, the game doesnt' encourage it, and so the playerbase that exists in that game will be largely anti social.
I don't know... Sure games have become more "solo-centric", but those who want to be social can, as far as I know. It may be tougher to find like minded people. It may mean being ignored by a large population of goal oriented players. So what?
I have found that if *I* want to be social in a game, I just do it. I make a random off-hand comment when others are nearby in local chat. Maybe I'll roleplay with an NPC. Maybe when I'm in a group, I start chatting with the others in my group. Sometimes, they chat back. Sometimes they don't. Oh well Maybe someone else makes a funny statement in local chat. I respond in kind Soon, we strike up a conversation, maybe find we are on the same questline (ooo nooo! That durned questline thing again!) and agree to pursue it together.
I often wonder when people make posts about "social" aspects in games if they truly try to be social themselves. I will give them that MMOs have attracted a player base more interested in "beating the game" and getting to the end game aspect, but I have found plenty of other players who don't mind being social and taking time out of their "grind" to be social
Remember, games don't make people be social, people do. So get out there! Be social!
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I play games to co-op with others in dungeon adventures, designed and implemented by professional devs. 99.9% of user generated content is crap.
There's an entire genre of games for that. Diablo, Torchlight, all that stuff.
MMOs are about massive numbers of people, simulated social worlds.
Yeh, and i played DIablo 3, TL, and all those games. *But* if MMO is going in this direction, and i like it, why shouldn't i play MMOs too. The beauty is i have total control over how i play a game. If i want to play WOW like Diablo 3, i can and i will.
MMOs are becoming lobby co-op games. Are you disputing that? It is certainly more and more about small group, MP content and also soloable content. It may not what you want, but clearly it is what very many MMOs are about.
Becoming? I'd have to say they pretty much are already there, more so now than ever in the genre's history. So much so it's probably fair to say they aren't MMORPG's anymore, but rather some new genre, say the MMOARPG (A for Action)
But to bastardize what Tony Stark recently said, "If we can't save the MMORPG genre, at least we can Avenge it!"
Well, you can call it what you like, although i highly doubt the common usage "MMORPG" will change.
Avenge it? How?
Avenger is a great movie ... but you are not tony stark.
Hey now, I'm just as good looking (just ask my wife) just not nearly as rich. (ask the IRS)
As for avenging it, expect me and others like me to relentlessly hammer away at these and other forums until one day we elicit some change.
They told Gandhi™ there was no use in asking the British to go home, and look how that turned out.
edit: I'll stop now, there's moderators walking the earth, don't want to anger them.
LOL .. that would have a very bad ROI. You really think hammering at forums will elicit change? You know how an internet forum works, right?
And even if there is some change, how is that "avenging" anything?
As far as Gandhi goes .. the British is in the very minority in India. You think you have a majority on your side? If you do, the market would have already responded.
Were you aware that marketers who work for the developers data mine forums? Majority is not necessary, only growing trend to get noticed and reported.
Yes, and that British minority RULED the Indian sub-contenent for a few hundred years. Until that peace-nick Gandhi forced them out.
Yes. And Blizzard actively listen and respond to forums.
And yes, the growing trend is already noted, and actively supported by devs .... turning MMOs into more like lobby co-op action RPGs. Where do you think the LFD/LFR innovation comes from?
A very sad state of affairs indeed. Hence why they call it the "me generation".
I have not given up hope that we can have that older mentality back though.
More like the "fun" generation. Sad only because you do not accept progress and human nature.
Loot drama is not new. It exists in EQ as much as today. The only difference is that blizz actively using technology to get rid of it (i.e. your loot is no longer affected by others in LFR).
A very sad state of affairs indeed. Hence why they call it the "me generation".
I have not given up hope that we can have that older mentality back though.
More like the "fun" generation. Sad only because you do not accept progress and human nature.
Loot drama is not new. It exists in EQ as much as today. The only difference is that blizz actively using technology to get rid of it (i.e. your loot is no longer affected by others in LFR).
I guess you missed where he quoted and then highlighted the part of the post where people were being demanding to someone doing them a favor at literally no cost. Unless of course you actually think being rude to people is "progress"...?
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
The difference is in the goals, which directly affects the type of interaction. If the goal of the players is to play with others, they will interact. If the goal is to get a specific rank, xp, item, etc then the others are just a tool to reach that end. Forcing random people together to reach a desirable end has never really proven to foster interaction or community beyond the group or guild unit. However, when players choose to band together, interaction and community expands beyond the group and guild unit.
From what I have read and experienced personally is that humans perfer to work together on a collective goal where their indivdual efforts get recongized. This gives people a deeper statisfcation then working solo or hanging out together socially but with no goal in mind.
I don't think anyone has questioned that.
what I am getting at is that social for the sake of social will not work in any context. It just leads to a drunked stuper eventually.
People need a common goal for the socialization to really work, otherwise one is better off just hanging out in the bar.
Furcadia, Sociolotron, Muxlim, Kaneva... any graphical chat channel... If you need some kind of arbitrary common goal in order to interact with others, you're doing it wrong. Personal progression in a persistent world, be it play or character, seems a necessity, but other than that, socialiation and interaction is dependent on common interest, not common task.
I'm wondering if you ever pledged a fraternity or spent some time in a military style school or boot camp.
The process in each is pretty much the same, you take a group of random pledges/cadets/soldiers who have nothing in common and you basically force them to band together and learn to rely on each other in order to face the common challenge, or evil if you will.
In the fraternity it's the brothers vs the pledges, in the military its the grunts vs their drill sargent.
I assure you, bonds are formed between former strangers that would never have previously existed unless they were forced into it by the situation they were faced with.
So yes, common social interest is certainly one reason for people to bond, but in the face of common adversity (tasks) they'll also pull together, which is sort of the gameplay mechanics that early MMORPG's employed. (along with providing proper timesinks to allow for socialization, but that's a different issue altogether)
Neither is right, or better than another, just two different approaches in my view.
I'm thinking perhaps there's some alternate methods that could be employed to encourage better social interaction in MMO's that might be more fitting in this new age of MMO's. Dungeon Finders are one way to do it, though its more about making people interact with each other than actually socialize, but hey, it's better than nothing.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Furcadia, Sociolotron, Muxlim, Kaneva... any graphical chat channel... If you need some kind of arbitrary common goal in order to interact with others, you're doing it wrong. Personal progression in a persistent world, be it play or character, seems a necessity, but other than that, socialization and interaction is dependent on common interest, not common task.
I'm wondering if you ever pledged a fraternity or spent some time in a military style school or boot camp.
The process in each is pretty much the same, you take a group of random pledges/cadets/soldiers who have nothing in common and you basically force them to band together and learn to rely on each other in order to face the common challenge, or evil if you will.
In the fraternity it's the brothers vs the pledges, in the military its the grunts vs their drill sargent.
I assure you, bonds are formed between former strangers that would never have previously existed unless they were forced into it by the situation they were faced with.
I don't doubt that at all, however we are talking about voluntary leisure activities, not ROTC or boot camp. If that needed to be qualified in the above statement then I apologies for the lack of clarity.
And your pledges aren't random, Kyleran. They are people with a very high desire to become part of that particular sub-group, often willing to engage in activities or endure trials they would otherwise avoid just to be accepted by the sub-group. When you look at the student body as a whole, doesn't that just reinforce that socialization is dependent on common interest? After all, aren't they pledging to random frat, but one they feel has similar interests.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
What killed the social aspect of MMORPGS is not solo content nor is it group content. What killed the social aspect is lack of downtime.
In the "olden" days people talked while they waited. They chatted while recovering from the last battle. The chatted while waiting for the camp to respawn. They traded stories on the long boat trips between continents.
Modern games don't have this, the respawn times are so quick yiu barely have time to blink. Downtime is none existant as you recover from the last fight almost before you have finished. There just isnt time to socialize.
Grouping is in my opinion almost worse for socilizing than solo play people get together do the task and split up often without a word being spoken. Why because while you started to talk the party has already moved to the next objective killed it and heading for the third. Groups dont want to talk they want do the task and go on their way.
Currently in modern games if you want to socialise you have to stop playing or use some sort of voip service. Which for some of us isnt practical.
A very sad state of affairs indeed. Hence why they call it the "me generation".
I have not given up hope that we can have that older mentality back though.
More like the "fun" generation. Sad only because you do not accept progress and human nature.
Loot drama is not new. It exists in EQ as much as today. The only difference is that blizz actively using technology to get rid of it (i.e. your loot is no longer affected by others in LFR).
I guess you missed where he quoted and then highlighted the part of the post where people were being demanding to someone doing them a favor at literally no cost. Unless of course you actually think being rude to people is "progress"...?
well ... there is never "no cost". Time is cost.
It is progress when i can play my game whenever i want, instead of making an appointment to raid. It is progress when i can hit the "quit" button whenever i do not like the group. It is progress when there is no more loot drama.
I'm thinking perhaps there's some alternate methods that could be employed to encourage better social interaction in MMO's that might be more fitting in this new age of MMO's. Dungeon Finders are one way to do it, though its more about making people interact with each other than actually socialize, but hey, it's better than nothing.
Why do we need "better" social interactions? What we need is better games. Is more social interaction more fun? Co-op fighting mobs is fun enough .. do we really need people to chat during a dungeon session?
So I found as a newbie, I have absolutely no choice to be more solo-oriented, just based on the fact nobody wants to stop and help someone who has no idea what their doing. I started playing MMOs just because I have too much time on my hands and it looked like fun to belong to a group of people, who go on and play games together. But because I've never really played any of these games before I have no idea what I am doing, and most people don't give a damn. Just pass me by thinking I'm lame. I just want to find a group that i can meld with and give me an extra hand as im learning. too many people are too advanced and dont care.
The balance between gameplay and downtime is tricky. We have lost a lot of downtime, but the gameplay has not always been better, often it is worse. If we had a more seemless way of interacting socially between/as we play that would help. In game chat is a step forward, but there have not been any other steps in that direction I can think of to date.
If you are having those sort of problems vm9008 you need to find a guild:
Scot's Good Guild Guide
Make sure they have a website.
Make sure they are on your server.
Check their forums and what they say about themselves.
Do you have to apply on the website? Always a good sign.
Make sure they are not a tiny guild or a really large one.
Do not put all your alts in the guild at once, put one in and wait a couple of weeks to see what the guild like.
Don't join too guilds at once, it will just cause you heartache down the line. One good guild is enough.
Children got access to the internet enmasse, they found a place where they could exercise their lack of social skills and release their pent up aggression onto others whilst remaining anonymous.
MMORPGs promptly evolved around the me, me ,me culture of the playground and we are left with a wasteland of expensive MMORPG's built upon the philosophy of me being the centre of attention and the "hero". Other players, other human beings, are merely are footnote upon my path to become max level and all powerful.
VOIP cleans up the potty mouthed children for the most part as they're intimidated by the sound of adults, the ones that continue in their quest to become life morons are easily blocked and ignored.
There are of course adults that fall into this category, they are also social outcasts probably the children that flooded the internet and MMORPGs nearly 10 years ago only they're in their 20's now yet they still act in the same mannner today.
I pray for Planteside 2!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Why do we need "better" social interactions? What we need is better games. Is more social interaction more fun? Co-op fighting mobs is fun enough .. do we really need people to chat during a dungeon session?
Because all the really good times I had in MMOs is together with other players?
Chatting while having a slow moment in a dungeon is rather nice, that is how you meet new friends in the game.
Children (many in their 40s) got access to the internet enmasse, they found a place where they could exercise their lack of social skills and release their pent up aggression onto others whilst remaining anonymous.
Economics of scale vs. nostalgic idealism. Hmmm, this is a rough one.
Yep, reality is hard to face sometimes. Good thing we have these generalizations to help us cope.
The "massive" in "MMO" is what's tripping people who really wanted "RPG", by the way. Always has been.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
What killed the social aspect of MMORPGS is not solo content nor is it group content. What killed the social aspect is lack of downtime.
In the "olden" days people talked while they waited. They chatted while recovering from the last battle. The chatted while waiting for the camp to respawn. They traded stories on the long boat trips between continents.
Modern games don't have this, the respawn times are so quick yiu barely have time to blink. Downtime is none existant as you recover from the last fight almost before you have finished. There just isnt time to socialize.
Grouping is in my opinion almost worse for socilizing than solo play people get together do the task and split up often without a word being spoken. Why because while you started to talk the party has already moved to the next objective killed it and heading for the third. Groups dont want to talk they want do the task and go on their way.
Currently in modern games if you want to socialise you have to stop playing or use some sort of voip service. Which for some of us isnt practical.
I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
RE: Loke's post above mine, I've also had some of my most fun chatting while inside a dungeon. The fact that there are players who can't fathom socialization taking place on a dungeon run demonstrates how far MMOs have really come from the social games they used to be.
You do still get a good social aspect in guilds but thats it.
These days you come on here for the old gaming world social aspect.
Even with guilds it's iffy. Guilds only become useful at max level if you want to raid. At low level people come and go so fast that if you're gone for a week you barely reconize your own guild.
For the most part they're just another chat channel.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
You do still get a good social aspect in guilds but thats it.
These days you come on here for the old gaming world social aspect.
Even with guilds it's iffy. Guilds only become useful at max level if you want to raid. At low level people come and go so fast that if you're gone for a week you barely reconize your own guild.
For the most part they're just another chat channel.
Of coures they are just chat channels. What else can they be?
Comments
What I was trying to say was that when there is a need for people to socialize and to communicate to achieve a certain goal, people will socialize and communicate. But you are correct that it is a forced socialization, not an voluntary one.
You made a very correct statement, in the old days, those that plays does have the same interests but they aren't necessary nerds, they just have similiar tastes, so it was easier for them to play together and hang online.
When the whole world is populated with todays generation of Facebook and Twitter where socialization is the norm, it shoulnd't be that hard to get people to socialize again. It just seems that MMO is where people can go to not socialize. And its just interesting how it turned out to be like that.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
A very sad state of affairs indeed. Hence why they call it the "me generation".
I have not given up hope that we can have that older mentality back though.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
It's funny, I log into Fallen Earth about once a month these days. The first Saturday of the month, to be precise, for the Crafter's Fair in New Flagstaff. A player created and run multi-hour monthly event that is great fun to observe.
Before FE's long and sad decline into its current state, there were a great many such events, many of them weekly -- somewhat ironic, given that the game is otherwise the least social I've ever played. I suspect had Icarus or, later, G1st, done anything other than basically telling RPers to bugger off, the game would be in much better shape than it is today.
In any event, it's hardly the only example. While it's been a couple of years since I played the game, in WoW I used to keep alliance characters on Kirin Tor -- an RP server, granted -- mostly because during any in-game holiday -- especially Easter or Halloween -- Goldshire turned into a 24/7 party town. I suppose it doesn't count because it's WoW, but it was quite amusing to watch.
Champions Online is another I've played where player interaction and socializing, at least if you bother to look for it, is non-stop. LoTRO, yet another.
Nothing happened to the social aspect, it's quite alive and well, it's just not forced on anyone -- which, bizarrely, seems to be the real complaint. If you wish to socialize I dare say you can find plenty of like-minded folk, and an active community of same, in most, if not all, games. You just won't have it shoved down your throat, probably because most devs learned long ago that the vast majority are just there to have fun, not live a second life.
The days of having "the social aspect" forced upon you if you want to play the game, are long gone. If it comes down to it, a choice between those who want others to be forced to play their 'social' -- it's nothing of the sort, really, not if it has to be forced -- way and those who just want to log in and run a dungeon, it's not even a question as to which would win. Deal with it, bury yourself in nostalgia and the false superiority of those who walked uphill both ways in ten feet of snow, and, if you really want a social aspect to your gaming, look around, find it, or start a group yourself.
Bumping the correct answer :P
I don't know... Sure games have become more "solo-centric", but those who want to be social can, as far as I know. It may be tougher to find like minded people. It may mean being ignored by a large population of goal oriented players. So what?
I have found that if *I* want to be social in a game, I just do it. I make a random off-hand comment when others are nearby in local chat. Maybe I'll roleplay with an NPC. Maybe when I'm in a group, I start chatting with the others in my group. Sometimes, they chat back. Sometimes they don't. Oh well
Maybe someone else makes a funny statement in local chat. I respond in kind 
Soon, we strike up a conversation, maybe find we are on the same questline (ooo nooo! That durned questline thing again!) and agree to pursue it together.
I often wonder when people make posts about "social" aspects in games if they truly try to be social themselves. I will give them that MMOs have attracted a player base more interested in "beating the game" and getting to the end game aspect, but I have found plenty of other players who don't mind being social and taking time out of their "grind" to be social
Remember, games don't make people be social, people do. So get out there! Be social!
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Yes. And Blizzard actively listen and respond to forums.
And yes, the growing trend is already noted, and actively supported by devs .... turning MMOs into more like lobby co-op action RPGs. Where do you think the LFD/LFR innovation comes from?
More like the "fun" generation. Sad only because you do not accept progress and human nature.
Loot drama is not new. It exists in EQ as much as today. The only difference is that blizz actively using technology to get rid of it (i.e. your loot is no longer affected by others in LFR).
I guess you missed where he quoted and then highlighted the part of the post where people were being demanding to someone doing them a favor at literally no cost. Unless of course you actually think being rude to people is "progress"...?
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
I'm wondering if you ever pledged a fraternity or spent some time in a military style school or boot camp.
The process in each is pretty much the same, you take a group of random pledges/cadets/soldiers who have nothing in common and you basically force them to band together and learn to rely on each other in order to face the common challenge, or evil if you will.
In the fraternity it's the brothers vs the pledges, in the military its the grunts vs their drill sargent.
I assure you, bonds are formed between former strangers that would never have previously existed unless they were forced into it by the situation they were faced with.
So yes, common social interest is certainly one reason for people to bond, but in the face of common adversity (tasks) they'll also pull together, which is sort of the gameplay mechanics that early MMORPG's employed. (along with providing proper timesinks to allow for socialization, but that's a different issue altogether)
Neither is right, or better than another, just two different approaches in my view.
I'm thinking perhaps there's some alternate methods that could be employed to encourage better social interaction in MMO's that might be more fitting in this new age of MMO's. Dungeon Finders are one way to do it, though its more about making people interact with each other than actually socialize, but hey, it's better than nothing.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You do still get a good social aspect in guilds but thats it.
These days you come on here for the old gaming world social aspect.
I don't doubt that at all, however we are talking about voluntary leisure activities, not ROTC or boot camp. If that needed to be qualified in the above statement then I apologies for the lack of clarity.
And your pledges aren't random, Kyleran. They are people with a very high desire to become part of that particular sub-group, often willing to engage in activities or endure trials they would otherwise avoid just to be accepted by the sub-group. When you look at the student body as a whole, doesn't that just reinforce that socialization is dependent on common interest? After all, aren't they pledging to random frat, but one they feel has similar interests.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I am quoting this for truth.
well ... there is never "no cost". Time is cost.
It is progress when i can play my game whenever i want, instead of making an appointment to raid. It is progress when i can hit the "quit" button whenever i do not like the group. It is progress when there is no more loot drama.
Why do we need "better" social interactions? What we need is better games. Is more social interaction more fun? Co-op fighting mobs is fun enough .. do we really need people to chat during a dungeon session?
So I found as a newbie, I have absolutely no choice to be more solo-oriented, just based on the fact nobody wants to stop and help someone who has no idea what their doing. I started playing MMOs just because I have too much time on my hands and it looked like fun to belong to a group of people, who go on and play games together. But because I've never really played any of these games before I have no idea what I am doing, and most people don't give a damn. Just pass me by thinking I'm lame. I just want to find a group that i can meld with and give me an extra hand as im learning. too many people are too advanced and dont care.
The balance between gameplay and downtime is tricky. We have lost a lot of downtime, but the gameplay has not always been better, often it is worse. If we had a more seemless way of interacting socially between/as we play that would help. In game chat is a step forward, but there have not been any other steps in that direction I can think of to date.
If you are having those sort of problems vm9008 you need to find a guild:
Scot's Good Guild Guide
Make sure they have a website.
Make sure they are on your server.
Check their forums and what they say about themselves.
Do you have to apply on the website? Always a good sign.
Make sure they are not a tiny guild or a really large one.
Do not put all your alts in the guild at once, put one in and wait a couple of weeks to see what the guild like.
Don't join too guilds at once, it will just cause you heartache down the line. One good guild is enough.
Children got access to the internet enmasse, they found a place where they could exercise their lack of social skills and release their pent up aggression onto others whilst remaining anonymous.
MMORPGs promptly evolved around the me, me ,me culture of the playground and we are left with a wasteland of expensive MMORPG's built upon the philosophy of me being the centre of attention and the "hero". Other players, other human beings, are merely are footnote upon my path to become max level and all powerful.
VOIP cleans up the potty mouthed children for the most part as they're intimidated by the sound of adults, the ones that continue in their quest to become life morons are easily blocked and ignored.
There are of course adults that fall into this category, they are also social outcasts probably the children that flooded the internet and MMORPGs nearly 10 years ago only they're in their 20's now yet they still act in the same mannner today.
I pray for Planteside 2!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Because all the really good times I had in MMOs is together with other players?
Chatting while having a slow moment in a dungeon is rather nice, that is how you meet new friends in the game.
Economics of scale vs. nostalgic idealism. Hmmm, this is a rough one.
Yep, reality is hard to face sometimes. Good thing we have these generalizations to help us cope.
The "massive" in "MMO" is what's tripping people who really wanted "RPG", by the way. Always has been.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
RE: Loke's post above mine, I've also had some of my most fun chatting while inside a dungeon. The fact that there are players who can't fathom socialization taking place on a dungeon run demonstrates how far MMOs have really come from the social games they used to be.
It's there for me in PS1 and will be in PS2. Stop playing themepark MMO's.
There is no social aspect. Dont you get it. The whole point has been REMOVING THE SOCIAL ASPECT. Its an unwritten rule in modern MMORPG design.
Even with guilds it's iffy. Guilds only become useful at max level if you want to raid. At low level people come and go so fast that if you're gone for a week you barely reconize your own guild.
For the most part they're just another chat channel.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Because "social aspect" is not a game. People don't play these games to chat.
Of coures they are just chat channels. What else can they be?