Why would I play chess in UO with a crappy interface when I can play chess with the same person in a real chess application with a better interface?
Just because a feature exists doesn't mean its a good thing. Implementing chess in UO was a waste of resources.
It wasn't a waste for the players who played chess in UO. They also had chess tournaments, a social activity. That made the game better for it overall, as it was more like a world. There were a lot of things that not everyone used. But it made it a better game anyways, for everyone.
Of course, felling the way you do, you could make a game that's narrowed down to just a few things like gear, levels, and quests....wait, it's been done. Done to death.
You have not answered the question. We already have a world (the real one) that has chess torunaments, and all things related to chess done 100x better than that in UO. Why would anyone go for a WORSE chess experience?
Putting lots of mini-games into a MMO makes it a better game? Will it be fun if you can play tetris inside a MMO? I don't think so.
Why play chess in an MMO?
I dunno, why shoot guns in an FPS? It's so much better in real life.
Why have character customisation in an MMO? Go into your closet and change your clothes, it's much more realistic.
If anyone has never played UO and wants to see what all the fuss was about (and doesnt mind the old school graphics) then you can still play it, its live and has never stopped. Just go here and sign up for the trial (link on the right) http://www.uoherald.com/
There has been alot of patches and expansions of course over the years, but the main feel of the game is still there.
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
vanguard comes close imo, if the concepts of vanilla wow had actually been perpetuated from release instead of being comopletely watered down to oblivion, I think wow would also be close ..
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
If UO launched today as a fully 3-D MMO with the unrestricted pre-Trammel ruleset, it would probably be instantly invaded by 10,000 members of some PK community that would kill everything that moves 24/7 until the game closed down after 3 months, lol
Well, you can't tell me Catskills was the only server to have anti-pk guilds, and plenty of them.
Anti-PK guilds did nothing to stop us...LoD and its allies owned our server. And yes, I am a proud member of that guild, we grew so large we have lasted for 15 years with around 300 people that never left and have crossed games keeping our name alive, rarely does our vent channel have less than 50 people logged in.
No amount of anti-pkers can stop it if there is a strong minded PK guild around.
BTW as for freedom in a game with a ton of things to do...Asherons Call.
If UO launched today as a fully 3-D MMO with the unrestricted pre-Trammel ruleset, it would probably be instantly invaded by 10,000 members of some PK community that would kill everything that moves 24/7 until the game closed down after 3 months, lol
Well, you can't tell me Catskills was the only server to have anti-pk guilds, and plenty of them.
Anti-PK guilds did nothing to stop us...LoD and its allies owned our server. And yes, I am a proud member of that guild, we grew so large we have lasted for 15 years with around 300 people that never left and have crossed games keeping our name alive, rarely does our vent channel have less than 50 people logged in.
No amount of anti-pkers can stop it if there is a strong minded PK guild around.
BTW as for freedom in a game with a ton of things to do...Asherons Call.
I remember some good battles around the Crossroads, which I think was a hot spot for all servers. PKs main advantage was their suprise. Stomping into Deceit or where have you with the sound of 20 unsynced horse tramplings.
That shit used to rock my subwoofer lol "DUDGUGUDDUGGUDGUGUDUDGUDUDUDGUDGUDGUUD"
I even found "Factions" to be fun for a while. It kind of gave UO a bit of a kick in the ass once I believe Tram was introduced. It's been so long, but things were/started going down hill before/shortly after anyway.
Why would I play chess in UO with a crappy interface when I can play chess with the same person in a real chess application with a better interface?
Just because a feature exists doesn't mean its a good thing. Implementing chess in UO was a waste of resources.
It wasn't a waste for the players who played chess in UO. They also had chess tournaments, a social activity. That made the game better for it overall, as it was more like a world. There were a lot of things that not everyone used. But it made it a better game anyways, for everyone.
Of course, felling the way you do, you could make a game that's narrowed down to just a few things like gear, levels, and quests....wait, it's been done. Done to death.
Come on man. Its online chess. Does it really matter what computer program its running in? I mean really? Is this what "immersion" has come to? Completely silly triviality?
There are tons, literally tons, of computer chess games and almost everyone of them does it better than UO did it. There have been tons of chess games since computer started getting made. Chess was one of the first online games people made.
Are you seriously trying to say that somehow reinventing the wheel is a good idea because of the 1% of players who actually even care to play chess 1% of them are so obsessive compulsive anal retentive that they must torture themselves with a crappy interface because alt tabbing would blow up their completely inflexible brain?
You could easily play UO and chess simultanteously in two windows. Its not like the isometric graphics are super absrobing or something. I mean seriously you actually hurt the case of making games immersive by insisting on things like this. Immersion should mean something not just taken to some utterly silly extreme.
Why would I play chess in UO with a crappy interface when I can play chess with the same person in a real chess application with a better interface?
Just because a feature exists doesn't mean its a good thing. Implementing chess in UO was a waste of resources.
It wasn't a waste for the players who played chess in UO. They also had chess tournaments, a social activity. That made the game better for it overall, as it was more like a world. There were a lot of things that not everyone used. But it made it a better game anyways, for everyone.
Of course, felling the way you do, you could make a game that's narrowed down to just a few things like gear, levels, and quests....wait, it's been done. Done to death.
Come on man. Its online chess. Does it really matter what computer program its running in? I mean really? Is this what "immersion" has come to? Completely silly triviality?
There are tons, literally tons, of computer chess games and almost everyone of them does it better than UO did it. There have been tons of chess games since computer started getting made. Chess was one of the first online games people made.
Are you seriously trying to say that somehow reinventing the wheel is a good idea because of the 1% of players who actually even care to play chess 1% of them are so obsessive compulsive anal retentive that they must torture themselves with a crappy interface because alt tabbing would blow up their completely inflexible brain?
You could easily play UO and chess simultanteously in two windows. Its not like the isometric graphics are super absrobing or something. I mean seriously you actually hurt the case of making games immersive by insisting on things like this. Immersion should mean something not just taken to some utterly silly extreme.
I don't think you get it. You didn't log onto UO to play chess. It was a social thing, you know, that thing lacking in todays MMOs.
Guess it was stupid to have your own housing and boats too. Cause you know, I'm playing from my house and could always buy a boat to play real chess on. They also should've taken vendors out and made an auction house and no loot while they were at it.
Eve is close. In Eve you can be an explorer and find hidden things, you can be a ship builder or component builder, market trader or even start your own hailing business. Eve is the only game that is close.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
I dunno, why shoot guns in an FPS? It's so much better in real life.
Why have character customisation in an MMO? Go into your closet and change your clothes, it's much more realistic.
/sarcasm
I'm sure you grew up on themeparks.
Nah i started before UO, played UO beta .. and found it a horrible game.
In fact, you tried to be funny but hit the right point unintentionally.
"Why shoot guns in a FPS?" .... precisely because i cannot blow someone's head off in real life. Precisely because i don't have access to machine guns in real life.
Playing chess in a MMO is sad. Playing a FPS .. is fulfulling a fantasy you cannot in real life.
Do you want to go to the movies in MMOs too? Do you want to make your bed in MMOs too?
I dunno, why shoot guns in an FPS? It's so much better in real life.
Why have character customisation in an MMO? Go into your closet and change your clothes, it's much more realistic.
/sarcasm
I'm sure you grew up on themeparks.
Nah i started before UO, played UO beta .. and found it a horrible game.
In fact, you tried to be funny but hit the right point unintentionally.
"Why shoot guns in a FPS?" .... precisely because i cannot blow someone's head off in real life. Precisely because i don't have access to machine guns in real life.
Playing chess in a MMO is sad. Playing a FPS .. is fulfulling a fantasy you cannot in real life.
Do you want to go to the movies in MMOs too? Do you want to make your bed in MMOs too?
I don't, but only because that isn't fun to me. I still wouldn't scream at people for wanting it in game though like a lot of people seem to do when people ask for sandbox elements in game today.
They had housing which you could decorate and manipulate how you wanted. I definetely found that more fun than cleaining my house in reality. Btw, you can blow someones head off, you choose not to. I simply enjoy things that contribute to the game and the social aspect. Plus, I don't think they had beds in UO..atleast not that I remember..otherwise I'm sure they would've let you .
It's just funny watching people today gush over Guild Wars 2 like it somehow is giving you any kind of freedom. How dissapointed they will be once they figure it out. Just give me a freakin' MMO with depth is all I ask.
Because the combat mechanics is specific to the specific MMO. If i want to play WOW mage mechanics in a MMO, there is no where to do it but in WOW.
Chess, OTOH, has the SAME mechanics anywhere.
There is still no reason to play chess in a MMO, but there is still some reason to play instanced pvp in MMOs .. and in fact, some will say instanced pvp are BETTER in some MMOs than other genre of games. I have yet to see a FPS instanced combat with CC abilities as in many MMOs.
Plus, whether people play instanced pvp is completely irrelevant to whether they play chess .. which is a very different game.
If chess has the same mechanics everywhere (which it does), why not play it in an online world if you happen to fancy it at the time? The "reason" is clearly because some people from time to time find it fun. The players meet up in game and you think it is a better idea to force them both to log out, to log onto another game, as opposed to just having a game right there and then in UO? That makes no sense at all.
Justifying instanced pvp in an mmorpg when you can find far superior pvp in other genres by saying "someone might want something game specific". Well there you go, you answered the question on your own. Yes you can play chess in other games, but some people might happen to want to have a game in their online world game with their online persona. Not for me, but for others it sure is the case.
I wasn't linking instanced pvp directly with chess, I was demonstrating that people use mechanics in mmorpgs all the time, when they could find superior versions in other genres. FPS games piss all over mmorpgs for e-sport/instanced pvp btw. Looking past the fact that CC's are mainly a pita and are mainly included to work around tab targetting crap, you have heavy itemization and a game which is not 100% focused on pvp combat.
This is not a case of adding in a "chess lobby" and trying to attract a chess playerbase. This is a case of a game simply allowing players who fancy it, to organise a game of chess if they want to. People may run ingame events, tournaments, who knows. It's a quirky addition that added something for some and took nothing from others, it is not meant to appeal to Garry fking Kasparov.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Not sure why the list still hasnt been provided. Then again if it had, a lot of people who say "Eve, Perpetuum, this, that" would probably realized they're wrong. I had an active account from 98 to 2008, didnt play much after AoS but still did, so I have no idea what they put in since 2008. More stuff no doubt:
I'm putting this UO list so that people can compare against it and soon find out how short they come on options offered by those other games since UO.
In UO, besides killing stuff you could:
- Stealth around picking locked chests in dungeons.
- Herd, Tame, train and sell pets and MOUNTS!
- Go fishing, fish up rares and lost treasure (the bigger stuff involved fighting)
- Grow plants
- Build, decorate and sell houses. That includes creating new decoration elements through optical illusion, which was a UO art in itself.
- Snoop people's backpacks and steal their stuff if you felt so inclined
- Hunt for rares, trade them
- Harvest all kinds of resources (obviously)
- Cook, tinker, make potions, furniture, clothes you name it, whether it was for use, trade or vanity. Crafting is unrivaled at this point.
- Get on your boat, sail around and explore
- Do a lot of social stuff that was in some way or other supported by game mechanics and not just total "let's pretend"
- Move heavy objects around so to create improvised structures
- Craft and enchant and otherwise modify (color, name) magical items with various properties to your liking
- Salvage and scavenge stuff from anywhere. Pick magical reagents from the wild, smelt or otherwise unmake items, etc.
- Build libraries and rune libraries (allows players to travel around the world from a central location)
- Run a shop
- Scam people in a hundred ways
- Trap and lock boxes and untrap and unlock them, which gave a lot of opportunities for stunts and antics
- Make monsters fight for you so you wouldnt have to do it yourself (I know, technically it's fighting)
I'm forgetting a lot of stuff, not to mention the creative things people would always end up doing with the game mechanics that were clearly not intended in the first place and gave the game that sense of freedom.
Good luck matching that to any game released since.
I made my UO fortune taming, herding, and selling various mounts in town at affordable prices. I LOVED that I could do that, I was like the KIA of UO.
If chess has the same mechanics everywhere (which it does), why not play it in an online world if you happen to fancy it at the time? The "reason" is clearly because some people from time to time find it fun. The players meet up in game and you think it is a better idea to force them both to log out, to log onto another game, as opposed to just having a game right there and then in UO? That makes no sense at all.
Because it has worse interface? Why do they have to log out? Just alt-tab to yahoo.
Justifying instanced pvp in an mmorpg when you can find far superior pvp in other genres by saying "someone might want something game specific". Well there you go, you answered the question on your own. Yes you can play chess in other games, but some people might happen to want to have a game in their online world game with their online persona. Not for me, but for others it sure is the case.
Chess is the same game every where. PvP is not. Are you saying WOW mage/rogue/healer group pvp is the same as COD shooting PvP? Even you have better sense than that.
If chess has the same mechanics everywhere (which it does), why not play it in an online world if you happen to fancy it at the time? The "reason" is clearly because some people from time to time find it fun. The players meet up in game and you think it is a better idea to force them both to log out, to log onto another game, as opposed to just having a game right there and then in UO? That makes no sense at all.
Because it has worse interface? Why do they have to log out? Just alt-tab to yahoo.
Justifying instanced pvp in an mmorpg when you can find far superior pvp in other genres by saying "someone might want something game specific". Well there you go, you answered the question on your own. Yes you can play chess in other games, but some people might happen to want to have a game in their online world game with their online persona. Not for me, but for others it sure is the case.
Chess is the same game every where. PvP is not. Are you saying WOW mage/rogue/healer group pvp is the same as COD shooting PvP? Even you have better sense than that.
The interface in not that important if you happen to want to play chess within that set game. You don't seem to get the fact that some players actually wanted to play the game within the UO game world. Moreover they may have wanted to spin things off from that game of chess within the game world. Run a tourney for a house, for gold, whatever.
Am I saying it's the same? Er no, I'm saying from the point of view of e-sports it is worse then can be found in FPS games.
People are for the main playing e-sports in mmorpgs because they want to play specifically within that environment,. Lo and behold some people want/ed to have a bit of a laugh from time to time and play chess specifically within the UO environment. Some people wanted to decorate from time to time. That's their choice and the game gave them that freedom.
They were aware that they could find another version with a better interface (much as people in WoW know they can find purer/better e-sports in other games), but they wanted at that moment to play within that particular online space. Given the game was a world simulator looking to allow people to do what they wanted, it is amazing that some people can actually see an issue with that.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
As much as I do NOT want to say it, I must say False.
Wurm online
Eve online
Perpetuum online
All come to mind as games with at least as much, if not more, content, skills and sand-boxyness.
I play EVE off and on and you simply cannot do as much as you could in UO. Eve has a TON of options, but UO offerend so many different play styles that you cannot even compare.
But the real question is was any of those activities actually FUN? having loads of things to do that are actually fun is the trick. My time on a UO second age private server was a click fest of mind numbingly boringness (hey I make words up) with the most god awful UI ever created. I always get the feeling with UO as a scientific experiment to see what crushingly boring tasks you could make a player perform just to rasie their skill by 0.008% and make them feel like it was real, they had to have FFA PvP to relieve the bordem factor, though I loved the clippity clop of your horse as you rode around.
When I was around 85 in most of my primary skills (magic on one, swordsmanship on another), I tried to just skill up to get those percentages. Then I quit doing that and just played and when I hit 100.... WOOT WOOT! Though I have to admit, my god was blacksmithing boring to level up. When I did reach GM though it paid so well that my other chars dungeon crawls were always cheap! Always had awesome poisoned weps, great armour, and enough extra cash from both the dungeon and smithing to do whatever I wanted (except I never did get enough to even afford a keep until trammel came a long)
Well i have not set foot in UO for a very long time and it wasn't that long either,so i really don't know what it has to offer.
I do know however that FFXI has more content than i have seen in all othergames,nothing comes even close.So i would venture a bet that UO probably cannot match it either.
One thing that was pretty much the defining moment to quit SOE games was when they introduced the FFXI equivalent of MMM.They turned the entire piece of content into a cash shop idea.So there you have content that you cannot do at all unless you pay money,VERY sad.In cases like that i cannot acknowledge it as being content becuase if i cannot do it without spending money,then might as well say it does not exist.
I trhink more importantly is a games structure.Example if a game is designed to be nothign more than pvp,then it removes all contant as all players care abot uis fighting each other.Pvp alone could turn a rpg into nothing more than a fps.
Content of course can become dated as newer and better comes along,but i can tell you that in FFXI players played ALL the content as it was released,they were not side tracked into pvp fighting.
Back to FFXI ,there is actually so much to do it can be overwhelming at times.
I have not played in over a year,so manmy terms and ideas can pass me by .However i will list a few .Outposts/Campaign...Within Campaign there is a whole mulittude of stuff to do including rank/medlas/items,quests ect ect./Beseiged/questing-mission system involving gate guards for rank,not your traidtional xp and loot reward system./language translator/airships/ferries/fishing/gardening/crafting of course/Renkai system/fully featured elemental system [EVERYTHING is based on elements]/moon phases/level sync/npc fellow companion/book dailies to escape traditional grouping that the game made famous/Dynamis/pvp battle ground that actually takes place in the open game world
Assault/Salvage/Einherjar/Arena,also known as Pankration/Moblin maze mongers aka MMM/very limited housing[console design would never handle anything more]however you can store all your trinkets and put them on display.Chocobos with added game play example chobo digging for treasure or racing or breeding your very own,most games a mount is nothing more than a mount.
Tons of little things like a fully featured summoners class,Aion tried summons but no where near as in depth as FFXI.SUB -CLASS probably the most defining part of FFXI,i doubt any game will ever match it's sub class feature.You can actually mark maps and put your own little footnote onto it.How about a combat system that uses three concepts invisible/sound and scent,i have NEVER seen any other game do it.Also the sight is realsitic unlike many games that just use an auto range detect.A fully featured beastmen class,You can go around and gain a pet from most of the mobs in the game.Other games just call you a Hunter and give you choice of predefined pets.There are Embassies and Conquest points.
Their newest content is done way different than any other game as well.You have to earn time to stay in zones,you have to build up concepts to earn rewards,time is a factor in all combat within FFXI.Unless soemone teaches you ,you woudl be totally lost walking into any of the newest content,it is very complex.
Ok i am tired lol,FFXI just does so much more and different than any other game,you will not enter FFXI and play like you have in other games.To some that is too much to ask and for others the 8+ years says it did something right.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The closest to get there is Eve Online, Sadly Sandbox games are hard to make work. its not the game itself its the comunity. Would UO have been the same game if everyone simply wanted to kill eachother. i dont think so, if you want to blame anyone for this difficulty blame WoW and its call to the Casual Gamer. most Casual gamers (i say not all because it is not all) Play games to screw around for afew hours and piss off as many people as possible. so at this point if you want a successful sandbox you need to hide it from them.
Think of it in literal terms, You and your friend are in a real sandbox building and digging. the casual gamer is the kid that walks in and boots everything you made because its fun. (not every casual gamer but you know what i mean) you normally can get rid of that one person, the sad part about it is that he comes back the next day with 7 times as meny people as you have. suddenly the game is no longer building its just kicking Sand in peoples faces.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
The closest to get there is Eve Online, Sadly Sandbox games are hard to make work. its not the game itself its the comunity. Would UO have been the same game if everyone simply wanted to kill eachother. i dont think so, if you want to blame anyone for this difficulty blame WoW and its call to the Casual Gamer. most Casual gamers (i say not all because it is not all) Play games to screw around for afew hours and piss off as many people as possible. so at this point if you want a successful sandbox you need to hide it from them.
Think of it in literal terms, You and your friend are in a real sandbox building and digging. the casual gamer is the kid that walks in and boots everything you made because its fun. (not every casual gamer but you know what i mean) you normally can get rid of that one person, the sad part about it is that he comes back the next day with 7 times as meny people as you have. suddenly the game is no longer building its just kicking Sand in peoples faces.
Those evil, evil "casuals"
It may have taken the genre 15+ years, but there will finally be actual consequences to your actions in the upcoming crop of sandboxes
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
Comments
Why play chess in an MMO?
I dunno, why shoot guns in an FPS? It's so much better in real life.
Why have character customisation in an MMO? Go into your closet and change your clothes, it's much more realistic.
/sarcasm
I'm sure you grew up on themeparks.
If anyone has never played UO and wants to see what all the fuss was about (and doesnt mind the old school graphics) then you can still play it, its live and has never stopped. Just go here and sign up for the trial (link on the right) http://www.uoherald.com/
There has been alot of patches and expansions of course over the years, but the main feel of the game is still there.
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
vanguard comes close imo, if the concepts of vanilla wow had actually been perpetuated from release instead of being comopletely watered down to oblivion, I think wow would also be close ..
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Anti-PK guilds did nothing to stop us...LoD and its allies owned our server. And yes, I am a proud member of that guild, we grew so large we have lasted for 15 years with around 300 people that never left and have crossed games keeping our name alive, rarely does our vent channel have less than 50 people logged in.
No amount of anti-pkers can stop it if there is a strong minded PK guild around.
BTW as for freedom in a game with a ton of things to do...Asherons Call.
I remember some good battles around the Crossroads, which I think was a hot spot for all servers. PKs main advantage was their suprise. Stomping into Deceit or where have you with the sound of 20 unsynced horse tramplings.
That shit used to rock my subwoofer lol "DUDGUGUDDUGGUDGUGUDUDGUDUDUDGUDGUDGUUD"
I even found "Factions" to be fun for a while. It kind of gave UO a bit of a kick in the ass once I believe Tram was introduced. It's been so long, but things were/started going down hill before/shortly after anyway.
Come on man. Its online chess. Does it really matter what computer program its running in? I mean really? Is this what "immersion" has come to? Completely silly triviality?
There are tons, literally tons, of computer chess games and almost everyone of them does it better than UO did it. There have been tons of chess games since computer started getting made. Chess was one of the first online games people made.
Are you seriously trying to say that somehow reinventing the wheel is a good idea because of the 1% of players who actually even care to play chess 1% of them are so obsessive compulsive anal retentive that they must torture themselves with a crappy interface because alt tabbing would blow up their completely inflexible brain?
You could easily play UO and chess simultanteously in two windows. Its not like the isometric graphics are super absrobing or something. I mean seriously you actually hurt the case of making games immersive by insisting on things like this. Immersion should mean something not just taken to some utterly silly extreme.
I don't think you get it. You didn't log onto UO to play chess. It was a social thing, you know, that thing lacking in todays MMOs.
Guess it was stupid to have your own housing and boats too. Cause you know, I'm playing from my house and could always buy a boat to play real chess on. They also should've taken vendors out and made an auction house and no loot while they were at it.
Thing was, that is what made UO great.
Eve is close. In Eve you can be an explorer and find hidden things, you can be a ship builder or component builder, market trader or even start your own hailing business. Eve is the only game that is close.
Nah i started before UO, played UO beta .. and found it a horrible game.
In fact, you tried to be funny but hit the right point unintentionally.
"Why shoot guns in a FPS?" .... precisely because i cannot blow someone's head off in real life. Precisely because i don't have access to machine guns in real life.
Playing chess in a MMO is sad. Playing a FPS .. is fulfulling a fantasy you cannot in real life.
Do you want to go to the movies in MMOs too? Do you want to make your bed in MMOs too?
Roblox
I don't, but only because that isn't fun to me. I still wouldn't scream at people for wanting it in game though like a lot of people seem to do when people ask for sandbox elements in game today.
They had housing which you could decorate and manipulate how you wanted. I definetely found that more fun than cleaining my house in reality. Btw, you can blow someones head off, you choose not to. I simply enjoy things that contribute to the game and the social aspect. Plus, I don't think they had beds in UO..atleast not that I remember..otherwise I'm sure they would've let you
.
It's just funny watching people today gush over Guild Wars 2 like it somehow is giving you any kind of freedom. How dissapointed they will be once they figure it out. Just give me a freakin' MMO with depth is all I ask.
If chess has the same mechanics everywhere (which it does), why not play it in an online world if you happen to fancy it at the time? The "reason" is clearly because some people from time to time find it fun. The players meet up in game and you think it is a better idea to force them both to log out, to log onto another game, as opposed to just having a game right there and then in UO? That makes no sense at all.
Justifying instanced pvp in an mmorpg when you can find far superior pvp in other genres by saying "someone might want something game specific". Well there you go, you answered the question on your own. Yes you can play chess in other games, but some people might happen to want to have a game in their online world game with their online persona. Not for me, but for others it sure is the case.
I wasn't linking instanced pvp directly with chess, I was demonstrating that people use mechanics in mmorpgs all the time, when they could find superior versions in other genres. FPS games piss all over mmorpgs for e-sport/instanced pvp btw. Looking past the fact that CC's are mainly a pita and are mainly included to work around tab targetting crap, you have heavy itemization and a game which is not 100% focused on pvp combat.
This is not a case of adding in a "chess lobby" and trying to attract a chess playerbase. This is a case of a game simply allowing players who fancy it, to organise a game of chess if they want to. People may run ingame events, tournaments, who knows. It's a quirky addition that added something for some and took nothing from others, it is not meant to appeal to Garry fking Kasparov.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I made my UO fortune taming, herding, and selling various mounts in town at affordable prices. I LOVED that I could do that, I was like the KIA of UO.
The interface in not that important if you happen to want to play chess within that set game. You don't seem to get the fact that some players actually wanted to play the game within the UO game world. Moreover they may have wanted to spin things off from that game of chess within the game world. Run a tourney for a house, for gold, whatever.
Am I saying it's the same? Er no, I'm saying from the point of view of e-sports it is worse then can be found in FPS games.
People are for the main playing e-sports in mmorpgs because they want to play specifically within that environment,. Lo and behold some people want/ed to have a bit of a laugh from time to time and play chess specifically within the UO environment. Some people wanted to decorate from time to time. That's their choice and the game gave them that freedom.
They were aware that they could find another version with a better interface (much as people in WoW know they can find purer/better e-sports in other games), but they wanted at that moment to play within that particular online space. Given the game was a world simulator looking to allow people to do what they wanted, it is amazing that some people can actually see an issue with that.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I play EVE off and on and you simply cannot do as much as you could in UO. Eve has a TON of options, but UO offerend so many different play styles that you cannot even compare.
When I was around 85 in most of my primary skills (magic on one, swordsmanship on another), I tried to just skill up to get those percentages. Then I quit doing that and just played and when I hit 100.... WOOT WOOT! Though I have to admit, my god was blacksmithing boring to level up. When I did reach GM though it paid so well that my other chars dungeon crawls were always cheap! Always had awesome poisoned weps, great armour, and enough extra cash from both the dungeon and smithing to do whatever I wanted (except I never did get enough to even afford a keep until trammel came a long)
Well i have not set foot in UO for a very long time and it wasn't that long either,so i really don't know what it has to offer.
I do know however that FFXI has more content than i have seen in all othergames,nothing comes even close.So i would venture a bet that UO probably cannot match it either.
One thing that was pretty much the defining moment to quit SOE games was when they introduced the FFXI equivalent of MMM.They turned the entire piece of content into a cash shop idea.So there you have content that you cannot do at all unless you pay money,VERY sad.In cases like that i cannot acknowledge it as being content becuase if i cannot do it without spending money,then might as well say it does not exist.
I trhink more importantly is a games structure.Example if a game is designed to be nothign more than pvp,then it removes all contant as all players care abot uis fighting each other.Pvp alone could turn a rpg into nothing more than a fps.
Content of course can become dated as newer and better comes along,but i can tell you that in FFXI players played ALL the content as it was released,they were not side tracked into pvp fighting.
Back to FFXI ,there is actually so much to do it can be overwhelming at times.
I have not played in over a year,so manmy terms and ideas can pass me by .However i will list a few .Outposts/Campaign...Within Campaign there is a whole mulittude of stuff to do including rank/medlas/items,quests ect ect./Beseiged/questing-mission system involving gate guards for rank,not your traidtional xp and loot reward system./language translator/airships/ferries/fishing/gardening/crafting of course/Renkai system/fully featured elemental system [EVERYTHING is based on elements]/moon phases/level sync/npc fellow companion/book dailies to escape traditional grouping that the game made famous/Dynamis/pvp battle ground that actually takes place in the open game world
Assault/Salvage/Einherjar/Arena,also known as Pankration/Moblin maze mongers aka MMM/very limited housing[console design would never handle anything more]however you can store all your trinkets and put them on display.Chocobos with added game play example chobo digging for treasure or racing or breeding your very own,most games a mount is nothing more than a mount.
Tons of little things like a fully featured summoners class,Aion tried summons but no where near as in depth as FFXI.SUB -CLASS probably the most defining part of FFXI,i doubt any game will ever match it's sub class feature.You can actually mark maps and put your own little footnote onto it.How about a combat system that uses three concepts invisible/sound and scent,i have NEVER seen any other game do it.Also the sight is realsitic unlike many games that just use an auto range detect.A fully featured beastmen class,You can go around and gain a pet from most of the mobs in the game.Other games just call you a Hunter and give you choice of predefined pets.There are Embassies and Conquest points.
Their newest content is done way different than any other game as well.You have to earn time to stay in zones,you have to build up concepts to earn rewards,time is a factor in all combat within FFXI.Unless soemone teaches you ,you woudl be totally lost walking into any of the newest content,it is very complex.
Ok i am tired lol,FFXI just does so much more and different than any other game,you will not enter FFXI and play like you have in other games.To some that is too much to ask and for others the 8+ years says it did something right.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The closest to get there is Eve Online, Sadly Sandbox games are hard to make work. its not the game itself its the comunity. Would UO have been the same game if everyone simply wanted to kill eachother. i dont think so, if you want to blame anyone for this difficulty blame WoW and its call to the Casual Gamer. most Casual gamers (i say not all because it is not all) Play games to screw around for afew hours and piss off as many people as possible. so at this point if you want a successful sandbox you need to hide it from them.
Think of it in literal terms, You and your friend are in a real sandbox building and digging. the casual gamer is the kid that walks in and boots everything you made because its fun. (not every casual gamer but you know what i mean) you normally can get rid of that one person, the sad part about it is that he comes back the next day with 7 times as meny people as you have. suddenly the game is no longer building its just kicking Sand in peoples faces.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Those evil, evil "casuals"
It may have taken the genre 15+ years, but there will finally be actual consequences to your actions in the upcoming crop of sandboxes
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
-The MMO Forum Community