Following the weekend we drilled into our Event metrics, and discovered that the difficulty had indeed changed between BWE3 vs. BWE2. We moved ahead with a check on our core systems to find out if any global change/bug had incurred a generic adjustment to the balance of the game. Quickly we found this to be the case, and the issue has now been corrected.
We also wanted to take the time to mention, that we feel the overall pacing of the game is exactly where we want it. Specifically that we do not want the player to be in a constant state of overly challenging gameplay, and therefore the difficulty is now reflective of the balance found in BWE2, without a change in overall pacing.
Not sure where people are getting that they are going to make the game more difficult, just not getting that here. Sounds to me like they are refering to particular instances were the combat in certain areas was not balanced, either too easy or too hard.
as long as they dont cave to the whiners who complain about the game being to hard that dont want to actually take the time to try to work harder and end up making it easier its ok by me
i can see it happening though.considering arenanet was made up of people from blizzard,and thats where im getting my logic from
Since many of GW2's features were included due to negative reactions to the gameplay in WoW and its predecessors, I don't think you have to worry too much. Also, when GW1 introduced Hard Mode, there was some whining about it being too hard. They did not cave then. In fact, some of the lead-in content thrown in to pave the way for GW2 was actually harder still.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
I did find it wierd that I was fighting enemies 7-8 lvls higher than myself without much effort. In the previous betas they would've damned near 1-shot me.
as long as they dont cave to the whiners who complain about the game being to hard that dont want to actually take the time to try to work harder and end up making it easier its ok by me
i can see it happening though.considering arenanet was made up of people from blizzard,and thats where im getting my logic from
Since many of GW2's features were included due to negative reactions to the gameplay in WoW and its predecessors, I don't think you have to worry too much. Also, when GW1 introduced Hard Mode, there was some whining about it being too hard. They did not cave then. In fact, some of the lead-in content thrown in to pave the way for GW2 was actually harder still.
negative reactions.....lol
count on the wow community to be so harsh on blizzard and the game though.i mean,alot of people generally overreacted and just wanted to bash blizzard as much as they could.im sorry,but i dont want my next mmo drastically changed because of a few crybabys who didnt like how there previous mmo was
but whatever,one of the biggest issues i have with guild wars 2 is.like ive put before,why fix what isnt broken.i dont consider some of the things that arenanet is calling bad that they are trying to "fix" as being bad in the first place
If that's true, I hope they will also tweak the difficulty for soloers. Doing the personal story alone, or being the only participant in an event was really difficult, almost impossible in many occasions. It felt like I was tackling group content alone, especially against mini bosses.
Being forced to group for "solo content" (story mode) is no fun. Well, it's no fun outside of story quests too. Wasn't it supposed to be a solo-friendly game?
Also, I hope they'll take into consideration the PVE balance between classes more, because at least during the first 20 levels, some classes felt really easy to play (almost no need to think at all, just mash and smash through), and some felt like nightmare mode, where you had to carefully measure everything and it still wasn't enough.
Personally, I prefer the method where if you want bigger challenge, you can go to higher areas, instead of the method where you're being locked into a small zones because, for example, on the other side of the field mobs are 2-3 lvls higher than you and are surprisingly tough for such a small increase in lvl, so you can't play there yet.
Having to outlevel micro portions of the map in order to explore is not my idea of fun.
I liked it much better in BWE1 where I could solo enemies that were 5lvls higher (mostly 1 on 1, sometimes against 2) if I was careful, than BWE2 where I struggled with the same profession through content where I was actually downleveled. In both BWE1 and BWE2 I've encountered story quests and dynamic events that were way too easy for a certain combo of number of players/type of proffesions, and some content that made me want to tear my hair out because of the difficulty.
A more even level of difficulty (scaling of difficulty through levels as the players becomes more experienced, instead of random jumping of difficulty up and down) would be really welcome.
I'm not in favor of making the entire normal content too difficult or too easy for the sake of minority, but I find "lack of challenge" to be easier to fix from the player side than adapting to content that is "too difficult."
The problem is that the developers have to make the content harder for the optimal build of the easiest class and at the same time make it easier for the average build of the most challenging professions. So more than on general mob DPS, I hope they'll focus on scaling, and on viable builds for every profession.
Until they'll do that, they'll keep geeting substantially long "too difficult/too easy" threads, because they're not addressing the actual problem.
Well, as long as the difficulty is were it was at in BWE2, I'm good with that. In BWE3, low level content was way too easy, but the difficulty seemed to be close to on par with previous tests the higher level I went. Let's just hope that the "bug" was something that when fixed makes the lower levels a little more challenging, with out making higher levels frustrating.
If the stress test tomorrow has out BWE3 characters intact, it will be easier to test. If not, we will just have to have faith.
Oh, yeah, Stress test August 2nd, Noon to 4PM Pacific Time!
Following the weekend we drilled into our Event metrics, and discovered that the difficulty had indeed changed between BWE3 vs. BWE2. We moved ahead with a check on our core systems to find out if any global change/bug had incurred a generic adjustment to the balance of the game. Quickly we found this to be the case, and the issue has now been corrected.
We also wanted to take the time to mention, that we feel the overall pacing of the game is exactly where we want it. Specifically that we do not want the player to be in a constant state of overly challenging gameplay, and therefore the difficulty is now reflective of the balance found in BWE2, without a change in overall pacing.
Not sure where people are getting that they are going to make the game more difficult, just not getting that here. Sounds to me like they are refering to particular instances were the combat in certain areas was not balanced, either too easy or too hard.
I think we're getting that because BWE2 was definitely more difficult (and better, I think) than BWE3 overall and they apparently found the issue that caused that problem and fixed it. I for one don't think the overall difficulty of BWE2 had anything to do with the pacing of the game. Just that things were generally harder to kill than they were in BWE3. So, it looks like they made things harder to kill again - like they were in BWE2, but kept the pacing of BWE3. IMO that would mean the game is now more difficult overall than it was in BWE3.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Following the weekend we drilled into our Event metrics, and discovered that the difficulty had indeed changed between BWE3 vs. BWE2. We moved ahead with a check on our core systems to find out if any global change/bug had incurred a generic adjustment to the balance of the game. Quickly we found this to be the case, and the issue has now been corrected.
We also wanted to take the time to mention, that we feel the overall pacing of the game is exactly where we want it. Specifically that we do not want the player to be in a constant state of overly challenging gameplay, and therefore the difficulty is now reflective of the balance found in BWE2, without a change in overall pacing.
Not sure where people are getting that they are going to make the game more difficult, just not getting that here. Sounds to me like they are refering to particular instances were the combat in certain areas was not balanced, either too easy or too hard.
Not sure where people are getting that they are going to make the game more difficult, just not getting that here. Sounds to me like they are refering to particular instances were the combat in certain areas was not balanced, either too easy or too hard.
Yeah man... Idk either.
sorry to jump in a little late, just want to clarify maybe where those who are claming an overall or global change are coming from. probably this right here:
"We moved ahead with a check on our core systems to find out if any global change/bug had incurred a generic adjustment to the balance of the game. Quickly we found this to be the case[.]"
the bit about "global change/bug" sounds as though it was a global event. not making a statement on facts though as i have no idea what the issue is or was.
Following the weekend we drilled into our Event metrics, and discovered that the difficulty had indeed changed between BWE3 vs. BWE2. We moved ahead with a check on our core systems to find out if any global change/bug had incurred a generic adjustment to the balance of the game. Quickly we found this to be the case, and the issue has now been corrected.
We also wanted to take the time to mention, that we feel the overall pacing of the game is exactly where we want it. Specifically that we do not want the player to be in a constant state of overly challenging gameplay, and therefore the difficulty is now reflective of the balance found in BWE2, without a change in overall pacing.
Not sure where people are getting that they are going to make the game more difficult, just not getting that here. Sounds to me like they are refering to particular instances were the combat in certain areas was not balanced, either too easy or too hard.
It's...exactly in the thing you just quoted. I highlighted it for you. BWE3 was too easy, the balance in BWE2 is what people were talking about was just about right, and that's what they've rolled it back to reflect.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
The problem is that the developers have to make the content harder for the optimal build of the easiest class and at the same time make it easier for the average build of the most challenging professions. So more than on general mob DPS, I hope they'll focus on scaling, and on viable builds for every profession.
Until they'll do that, they'll keep geeting substantially long "too difficult/too easy" threads, because they're not addressing the actual problem.
That is a class balance issue, which they of course are working on as well.
But if the general game isn´t challenging enough it doesn´t have what it takes to keep the players long term. If a game without gear progression gets too easy you just don´t have anything that keeps you playing it (at least the PvE part).
If there are dungeons and stuf fyou still aren´t good enough to complete you will have to play until you become better, you will have something to aim for.
I think it was easier because the level scaling changed. In the BWE1/2 I was downscaled to the level of the area. However in BWE3 I was downscaled to two levels above the area. Making me that much more powerful. Everything felt like a bit of a faceroll when lvl 25 (well...17) in a 15 zone.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
I think it was easier because the level scaling changed. In the BWE1/2 I was downscaled to the level of the area. However in BWE3 I was downscaled to two levels above the area. Making me that much more powerful. Everything felt like a bit of a faceroll when lvl 25 (well...17) in a 15 zone.
There was something off.
BWE3 I was fending off 3 ettin plus a veteran ettins in queensdale with a guardian without even trying.
BWE2 I had to be focused to fend 2 ettins with an engineer.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
"Watch this, with just these two little knobs we can turn the difficulty way down ..... and when we need some more cash shop revenue we'll just crank it up a couple of notches"
It's the definition of "built from the ground up with the item shop in mind"
"Watch this, with just these two little knobs we can turn the difficulty way down ..... and when we need some more cash shop revenue we'll just crank it up a couple of notches"
It's the definition of "built from the ground up with the item shop in mind"
Exactly, whenever it is more difficult I go buy some dye packs in hopes I get a rare invincible colour...
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
ANet's response time and care that genuine concerns get dealt with quickly and efficiently is just great.
Funcom could do with having their customer care team being trained by ANet - the 'care' they showed in AoC meant delays of up to 12 months on class critical issues, months on game-breaking bugs and sometimes nothing, at all, ever....
I have to pinch myself every time I see or read how fast and effectively ANet deal with stuff.
Originally posted by Loke666 That is a class balance issue, which they of course are working on as well.
But if the general game isn´t challenging enough it doesn´t have what it takes to keep the players long term. If a game without gear progression gets too easy you just don´t have anything that keeps you playing it (at least the PvE part).
If there are dungeons and stuf fyou still aren´t good enough to complete you will have to play until you become better, you will have something to aim for.
I think of explorable dungeons as elite content. It's what you do once you get the hang of the game's mechanics (I also expect dungeons to get even trickier at higher levels). There definitely has to be that kind of content in the game, simply because the game should offer enough for experienced and hardcore gamers, and I think that ArenaNet will not disappoint on that front.
Outside of that, the content should be approachable for the average player, with gradual increase in difficulty and introduction of elements that are specific to GW2 and seem to confuse the players.
(I'd also like to speed up some aspects of the combat in the "tutorial levels" to the real deal, but I understand why that won't happen. And quite frankly, I think players with limited playing experience or maybe not so great reflexes should also feel welcome in the game, even if some content won't be for them. There are many things already available in GW2 to entertain different types of players, not everyone craves for challenge.)
I was not talking about dungeons in my post. That's why I mentioned "normal content" - I probably didn't express myself well here - and increasing difficulty over levels:
Originally posted by Gamayun
(...) A more even level of difficulty (scaling of difficulty through levels as the players becomes more experienced, instead of random jumping of difficulty up and down) would be really welcome. (...)
(...) I'm not in favor of making the entire normal content too difficult or too easy for the sake of minority, but I find "lack of challenge" to be easier to fix from the player side than adapting to content that is "too difficult." (...)
But the devs should pay more attention to how the difficulty scales based on the number of participants and how professions are efficient overall. During the BWEs, profession and party size affected difficulty much more than they should in the released game; I found those differences inside a single beta event practically as big as the difference between one beta weekend and another. A DE or a quest that's very challenging for a single player shouldn't be so easy in duo or group. Likewise, something that's a piece of cake for some professions shouldn't be too frustrating for others.
It will never be perfectly balanced, but there shouldn't be big deviations. As you said, the game is still in beta, and I hope the developers got enough feedback from the questionairies and forums to smooth it out.
If they can't do that, I prefer if they make it a bit easier until they figure out the right balance. An experienced player is more capable of finding challenge than a less experienced player is capable of progressing, and in the end difficulty is determined by how the majority perceives it.
Personally, it won't affect me much if the difficulty will be on the level of BWE1, or 2, or 3, if only scaling and class balance will work properly. It does matters to me if soloing will still be possible and how much the exploring will be hindered. Not to mention that I want to start the game with the class(es) I like the most, not the one(s) I find easier.
"Watch this, with just these two little knobs we can turn the difficulty way down ..... and when we need some more cash shop revenue we'll just crank it up a couple of notches"
It's the definition of "built from the ground up with the item shop in mind"
Comments
We also wanted to take the time to mention, that we feel the overall pacing of the game is exactly where we want it. Specifically that we do not want the player to be in a constant state of overly challenging gameplay, and therefore the difficulty is now reflective of the balance found in BWE2, without a change in overall pacing.
Not sure where people are getting that they are going to make the game more difficult, just not getting that here. Sounds to me like they are refering to particular instances were the combat in certain areas was not balanced, either too easy or too hard.
Since many of GW2's features were included due to negative reactions to the gameplay in WoW and its predecessors, I don't think you have to worry too much. Also, when GW1 introduced Hard Mode, there was some whining about it being too hard. They did not cave then. In fact, some of the lead-in content thrown in to pave the way for GW2 was actually harder still.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
Glad to hear it, that definitely explains a lot.
I did find it wierd that I was fighting enemies 7-8 lvls higher than myself without much effort. In the previous betas they would've damned near 1-shot me.
Fantastic.
Ye harder, ye better. Bring some sweat and tears in our gaming!
;-)
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
negative reactions.....lol
count on the wow community to be so harsh on blizzard and the game though.i mean,alot of people generally overreacted and just wanted to bash blizzard as much as they could.im sorry,but i dont want my next mmo drastically changed because of a few crybabys who didnt like how there previous mmo was
but whatever,one of the biggest issues i have with guild wars 2 is.like ive put before,why fix what isnt broken.i dont consider some of the things that arenanet is calling bad that they are trying to "fix" as being bad in the first place
If that's true, I hope they will also tweak the difficulty for soloers. Doing the personal story alone, or being the only participant in an event was really difficult, almost impossible in many occasions. It felt like I was tackling group content alone, especially against mini bosses.
Being forced to group for "solo content" (story mode) is no fun. Well, it's no fun outside of story quests too. Wasn't it supposed to be a solo-friendly game?
Also, I hope they'll take into consideration the PVE balance between classes more, because at least during the first 20 levels, some classes felt really easy to play (almost no need to think at all, just mash and smash through), and some felt like nightmare mode, where you had to carefully measure everything and it still wasn't enough.
Personally, I prefer the method where if you want bigger challenge, you can go to higher areas, instead of the method where you're being locked into a small zones because, for example, on the other side of the field mobs are 2-3 lvls higher than you and are surprisingly tough for such a small increase in lvl, so you can't play there yet.
Having to outlevel micro portions of the map in order to explore is not my idea of fun.
I liked it much better in BWE1 where I could solo enemies that were 5lvls higher (mostly 1 on 1, sometimes against 2) if I was careful, than BWE2 where I struggled with the same profession through content where I was actually downleveled. In both BWE1 and BWE2 I've encountered story quests and dynamic events that were way too easy for a certain combo of number of players/type of proffesions, and some content that made me want to tear my hair out because of the difficulty.
A more even level of difficulty (scaling of difficulty through levels as the players becomes more experienced, instead of random jumping of difficulty up and down) would be really welcome.
I'm not in favor of making the entire normal content too difficult or too easy for the sake of minority, but I find "lack of challenge" to be easier to fix from the player side than adapting to content that is "too difficult."
The problem is that the developers have to make the content harder for the optimal build of the easiest class and at the same time make it easier for the average build of the most challenging professions. So more than on general mob DPS, I hope they'll focus on scaling, and on viable builds for every profession.
Until they'll do that, they'll keep geeting substantially long "too difficult/too easy" threads, because they're not addressing the actual problem.
BWE1 and BWE2 was a joke. BWE3 was a bit easy. Go somewhere in between.
Nice! The game was getting a bit too easy, good to see that they are doing something about it
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Well, as long as the difficulty is were it was at in BWE2, I'm good with that. In BWE3, low level content was way too easy, but the difficulty seemed to be close to on par with previous tests the higher level I went. Let's just hope that the "bug" was something that when fixed makes the lower levels a little more challenging, with out making higher levels frustrating.
If the stress test tomorrow has out BWE3 characters intact, it will be easier to test. If not, we will just have to have faith.
Oh, yeah, Stress test August 2nd, Noon to 4PM Pacific Time!
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I think we're getting that because BWE2 was definitely more difficult (and better, I think) than BWE3 overall and they apparently found the issue that caused that problem and fixed it. I for one don't think the overall difficulty of BWE2 had anything to do with the pacing of the game. Just that things were generally harder to kill than they were in BWE3. So, it looks like they made things harder to kill again - like they were in BWE2, but kept the pacing of BWE3. IMO that would mean the game is now more difficult overall than it was in BWE3.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
thats good, I rather have the content challenging since it will help people better learn what they're skills do and when they need to use it.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/359874/Aerowyns-Video-Compilation-of-ALL-things-Guild-Wars-2.html
Yeah man... Idk either.
Yes!!! This is great news indeed. Thanks again to all that signed the petion on the beta forums. Maybe it did indeed have an impact.
sorry to jump in a little late, just want to clarify maybe where those who are claming an overall or global change are coming from. probably this right here:
"We moved ahead with a check on our core systems to find out if any global change/bug had incurred a generic adjustment to the balance of the game. Quickly we found this to be the case[.]"
the bit about "global change/bug" sounds as though it was a global event. not making a statement on facts though as i have no idea what the issue is or was.
i did notice BWE3 feeling easier though.
Im glad, i was absolutely facerolling everyone and everything on my guardian
Thank GOD!! That was ridiculously easy. I could gather whole mountains of mobs on my Guardian and just AoE things to death. It was obviously too easy.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
It's...exactly in the thing you just quoted. I highlighted it for you. BWE3 was too easy, the balance in BWE2 is what people were talking about was just about right, and that's what they've rolled it back to reflect.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
That is a class balance issue, which they of course are working on as well.
But if the general game isn´t challenging enough it doesn´t have what it takes to keep the players long term. If a game without gear progression gets too easy you just don´t have anything that keeps you playing it (at least the PvE part).
If there are dungeons and stuf fyou still aren´t good enough to complete you will have to play until you become better, you will have something to aim for.
I think it was easier because the level scaling changed. In the BWE1/2 I was downscaled to the level of the area. However in BWE3 I was downscaled to two levels above the area. Making me that much more powerful. Everything felt like a bit of a faceroll when lvl 25 (well...17) in a 15 zone.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
There was something off.
BWE3 I was fending off 3 ettin plus a veteran ettins in queensdale with a guardian without even trying.
BWE2 I had to be focused to fend 2 ettins with an engineer.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
It probably was a demo for the investors -
"Watch this, with just these two little knobs we can turn the difficulty way down ..... and when we need some more cash shop revenue we'll just crank it up a couple of notches"
It's the definition of "built from the ground up with the item shop in mind"
Exactly, whenever it is more difficult I go buy some dye packs in hopes I get a rare invincible colour...
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
ANet's response time and care that genuine concerns get dealt with quickly and efficiently is just great.
Funcom could do with having their customer care team being trained by ANet - the 'care' they showed in AoC meant delays of up to 12 months on class critical issues, months on game-breaking bugs and sometimes nothing, at all, ever....
I have to pinch myself every time I see or read how fast and effectively ANet deal with stuff.
Gold medals all round!
I think of explorable dungeons as elite content. It's what you do once you get the hang of the game's mechanics (I also expect dungeons to get even trickier at higher levels). There definitely has to be that kind of content in the game, simply because the game should offer enough for experienced and hardcore gamers, and I think that ArenaNet will not disappoint on that front.
Outside of that, the content should be approachable for the average player, with gradual increase in difficulty and introduction of elements that are specific to GW2 and seem to confuse the players.
(I'd also like to speed up some aspects of the combat in the "tutorial levels" to the real deal, but I understand why that won't happen. And quite frankly, I think players with limited playing experience or maybe not so great reflexes should also feel welcome in the game, even if some content won't be for them. There are many things already available in GW2 to entertain different types of players, not everyone craves for challenge.)
I was not talking about dungeons in my post. That's why I mentioned "normal content" - I probably didn't express myself well here - and increasing difficulty over levels:
But the devs should pay more attention to how the difficulty scales based on the number of participants and how professions are efficient overall. During the BWEs, profession and party size affected difficulty much more than they should in the released game; I found those differences inside a single beta event practically as big as the difference between one beta weekend and another. A DE or a quest that's very challenging for a single player shouldn't be so easy in duo or group. Likewise, something that's a piece of cake for some professions shouldn't be too frustrating for others.
It will never be perfectly balanced, but there shouldn't be big deviations. As you said, the game is still in beta, and I hope the developers got enough feedback from the questionairies and forums to smooth it out.
If they can't do that, I prefer if they make it a bit easier until they figure out the right balance. An experienced player is more capable of finding challenge than a less experienced player is capable of progressing, and in the end difficulty is determined by how the majority perceives it.
Personally, it won't affect me much if the difficulty will be on the level of BWE1, or 2, or 3, if only scaling and class balance will work properly. It does matters to me if soloing will still be possible and how much the exploring will be hindered. Not to mention that I want to start the game with the class(es) I like the most, not the one(s) I find easier.
EDIT: typo
Seriously?