Jumping on the Bandwagon

Falconoffury · September 2005

All I hear about these days are WoW and GW. Why can't people be bothered to try the games from the small, independant game companies? I see so many good games with such small playerbases that deserve more of the spotlight. I see too many crap games that get too much of the spotlight. We should not let advertising dollars control our choice of games.

Rubycat · September 2005

WoW and GW are both good games.. they have thier reputation because people LIKE! the games..

Neveras · September 2005

Rubycat does have a point, and this has nothing to do with advertising whatsoever, games gain popularity by attracting people to it's style of gameplay. Alot of independent games are simply incredibly repetitive, and while people can have fun with repetitiveness (sic) it has to at least be done well. Argue all you want about WoW or EQ or GW but all of those games have gotten to where they are because people out there find them fun to play.

The independ developpers can make a good game and gain spotlight if they are innovative and fun to play, but this is an extreme rarity, instead 90% of independent mmo's all play like they're just unpolished versions of games available on the market.

Zaxx99 · September 2005

Yep. Sad but true.

Big names usually means more time, resources, and quality.. even if they do lack originality or even the creativety that the smaller companies may hold.

Perfect example:

Big name companies: Asherons Call, Ultima Online, Everquest, WoW, Dark Age of Camelot, etc etc

Small name companies: Mourning, Irth Online, RYL, and uhh Rubies of Evertide or whatever it is. Heh.

Sad but true.

- Zaxx

Dinion · September 2005

Lots of hype, new people come in, they've never actaully heard of any other MMO and what can I say, WoW and GW are alright so they get them hooked. Easy is what sells, most people want easy, and many independent MMOs have alot of depth and difficulty so they really only attract that niche audience. The game can have all the innovation and depth in the world but still not sell as well as games like WoW that are easy to play and easy to get into.

Neveras · September 2005

Originally posted by Dinion

Lots of hype, new people come in, they've never actaully heard of any other MMO and what can I say, WoW and GW are alright so they get them hooked. Easy is what sells, most people want easy, and many independent MMOs have alot of depth and difficulty so they really only attract that niche audience. The game can have all the innovation and depth in the world but still not sell as well as games like WoW that are easy to play and easy to get into.

I hate to say it, but I see almost no Independent games out there with this Innovation and Depth you speak of, at least none that fly under any kind of radar. Most Independent games lack any real Innovation and are just poorly made clones with the skeletons of promise. It has very little to do with real difficulty rather than accesibility as well, it's one thing to add depth and difficulty into a game, but there is a proper way to pace it. Dropping a player into a game that is simply frustrating to learn is just plain and simple horrible design.

Dinion · September 2005

Originally posted by Neveras
I hate to say it, but I see almost no Independent games out there with this Innovation and Depth you speak of, at least none that fly under any kind of radar. Most Independent games lack any real Innovation and are just poorly made clones with the skeletons of promise. It has very little to do with real difficulty rather than accesibility as well, it's one thing to add depth and difficulty into a game, but there is a proper way to pace it. Dropping a player into a game that is simply frustrating to learn is just plain and simple horrible design.

EVE, Roma Victor(although its not out), horizons is one right, shadowbane and hell even runescape to some extent. Yeah there are alot of korean MMOs that pretty much copy each other, but even they have more depth than many newer MMOs. Now I really don't see how you can make an easy game to get into, and yet have difficulty and strategy at the same time, maybe you can shed some light on that. I do agree that alot of these independent MMOs have design flaws, but they don't have million dollar budgets and 100+ staff. WoW has hype, good art design and is very easy to get into but IMO its proof that simplicity and lack of difficulty sells well. I believe games in general are getting much easier, maybe it's because I'm so good! ::::24::

or maybe it's because it's what people like, how many switch games to easy mode rather than play it set to hard? Now I'm not insulting games for being easy, I played WoW for 6 months and enjoyed alot of it, I really enjoy Dungeon Siege 2, I even have fun with bloodrayne 2 and yes I am one of those people whom is more likely to switch to easy mode ::::02::

. All I'm saying is easy sells better.

rohbshop · September 2005

I posted in another thread some stuff that shouldve been in this one. I will summarize and just say horizons was one of the worst pay mmorpgs ever made. AC2 was close behind. There are many more that will attest to how bad they were than people who think they were even decent.

Anyways there are such things as bad opinions, which generally fall under consistently being in the minority or to put it simply, generally liking failing games more than successful ones.

Rikimaru_X · September 2005

I don't think people jump on the bandwagon when it comes to mmorpgs. If they think it's good, they might try out a trial version, went into beta, tried it with a friend, and if they like it, they buy it.

GW...that did seem more like a bandwagon because people are thinking like "omg free mmorpg (it's not under ArenaNet saying though)" and they buy it...some like it some don't (and still play it). People can be strange in general, but I don't think a MMORPG would necessarily be a bandwagon....but I might be thinking one sided so....don't mind me

Aldaron · September 2005

Originally posted by zaxtor99

Perfect example:
Big name companies: Asherons Call,

Turbine was HARDLY a big name company at the time. In fact, for most people, Asherons Call was not even heard of - Turbine who?

Although Microsoft published it, that's all they did really. Just got it onto the store shelves, made a neat little place on the zone for it, and that's it.

Bobiin · September 2005

Originally posted by Falconoffury

All I hear about these days are WoW and GW. Why can't people be bothered to try the games from the small, independant game companies? I see so many good games with such small playerbases that deserve more of the spotlight. I see too many crap games that get too much of the spotlight. We should not let advertising dollars control our choice of games.

Starbucks and Wall-Mart are the devil!!!!!!!!

Neveras · September 2005

Originally posted by Dinion

Originally posted by Neveras

I hate to say it, but I see almost no Independent games out there with this Innovation and Depth you speak of, at least none that fly under any kind of radar. Most Independent games lack any real Innovation and are just poorly made clones with the skeletons of promise. It has very little to do with real difficulty rather than accesibility as well, it's one thing to add depth and difficulty into a game, but there is a proper way to pace it. Dropping a player into a game that is simply frustrating to learn is just plain and simple horrible design.

EVE, Roma Victor(although its not out), horizons is one right, shadowbane and hell even runescape to some extent. Yeah there are alot of korean MMOs that pretty much copy each other, but even they have more depth than many newer MMOs. Now I really don't see how you can make an easy game to get into, and yet have difficulty and strategy at the same time, maybe you can shed some light on that. I do agree that alot of these independent MMOs have design flaws, but they don't have million dollar budgets and 100+ staff. WoW has hype, good art design and is very easy to get into but IMO its proof that simplicity and lack of difficulty sells well. I believe games in general are getting much easier, maybe it's because I'm so good! ::::24::

or maybe it's because it's what people like, how many switch games to easy mode rather than play it set to hard? Now I'm not insulting games for being easy, I played WoW for 6 months and enjoyed alot of it, I really enjoy Dungeon Siege 2, I even have fun with bloodrayne 2 and yes I am one of those people whom is more likely to switch to easy mode ::::02::

. All I'm saying is easy sells better.

Eve doesn't count here, why because it HAS the spotlight it deserves. Remember I said 90% of games, not 100. As well, Eve has complexity but it isn't utterly terrifying to get into, there is just enough ease in the way it starts you out (now more than before) that it's not just dropping you into a game that is utterly confusing. What your thinking I'm trying to say is the game will be really really easy to get into and then get harder, but that's not it, it's all about how a game explains itself and plays itself out. Let's take Anarchy Online for instance, that game plops you down, even on Newbie island without explaining anything, giving you points to upgrade your characters and abilities without really going into how to use or do any of it. If it weren't for the very good community of people answering questions it would be an utter bitch to get into.

Also as you stated Roma Victor doesn't count, it's not out yet, and well Horizon and Shadowbane are just wanna-be big time MMO's with a few gimmicks thrown in. It doesn't have to do with production companies as both of those mentioned actually had half-decent backing when they were first being made. They aren't independent, just because the company has started to fall apart now. Take a look at Horizons, I distinctly remember all the hype it received before it's launch, it had spotlight, it had the chance, it failed because of it's very inherent flaws. It's sad because alot of these have good concepts but don't bring enough new to the table to make it viable. Eve had enough new about it to make it a great alternative choice, and Eve is in now way failing.

Xpheyel · September 2005

Maybe its because World of Warcraft and Guild Wars are games with low level caps that don't demand the huge amounts of time that other games do? I mean seriously, I understand that to even start doing what EvE is fameous for I need to play the apparently much less interesting grindathon for four months. If I'm really dedicated, I could be almost done with WoW by then probably. I'd be into or close to the endgame PvP/social aspects. Guild Wars isn't anything like normal MMO's from what I've gathered.

A lot of you are looking at that as a negative, and missing that plenty of people are going to see it as a plus.

Tinybina · September 2005

Originally posted by Dinion

Originally posted by Neveras

EVE, Roma Victor(although its not out), horizons is one right, shadowbane and hell even runescape to some extent.

You should have stopped at EVE... Those other games had like 500 people playing them and were total failures.. That will probably be the same when Roma Victor comes out and all the "Graphics dont make a game" people even become turned off by the stick figures Roma Victor calls graphics.... For all those that though SB was bad and outdated graphicly you havent seen nothing yet, Roma Victor looks like something that should be played on a Atari.

BarryManilow · September 2005

Originally posted by Falconoffury

All I hear about these days are WoW and GW. Why can't people be bothered to try the games from the small, independant game companies? I see so many good games with such small playerbases that deserve more of the spotlight. I see too many crap games that get too much of the spotlight. We should not let advertising dollars control our choice of games.

Most people are sheep and need to be led.

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