For as expensive as it was, yeah... a bit underwhelming to see it fizzle.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
However in my opinion till the game shut down its servers within few months like APB and Tabula Rasa it can not be the biggest failure..;or even better release to die evena quicker death like Dark and Light.
After playing the game 2-3 months early this year, I and aswell others thought already that the game wont hold for longer. A lot user here called people "haters" who critisized SWTOR and failed to recognize what a good mmorpg needs, at the end the situation is worse. Actually there were some people who thought that SWTOR will be F2P in 6 months....they were not exactly right with the time duration but quiete close. Congrats...after Swtor got hyped to be the Game of the Year.
People are not dumb and the industry tries hard to push their F2P concepts even with PR campaigns in which they try to claim that monthly fees would allegedly be outdated, fortunately many of the gamers know to avoid and see through such questionable concepts. Unfortunately too many are blindfolded.
edit: didnt know that the option for a monthly subscribtion stays besides the F2P concept....
K team UK,... You spouted so much bull I'll reply together. You simply can not cut out the numbers for Aion or Lineage from Asia when “discussing” the success of SWTOR on the “global” scale when trying to rank the overall popularity of the game. So they operate in Asian countries where SWTOR isn’t yet available? That does not change the fact that both games are more successful “globally” which is all “I” ever claimed. I don't know what a couple of your buddies are rambling about but it isn't what I claimed. Asians exist you can’t just throw them out of the equation and say only the western world matters when talking MMORPGs as all of them are trying to tap into the market on the “other side of the fence” as soon as possible. Boy, I bet every western game maker wishes people would subtract the Asian market when WOW’s paying subscriber number is quoted but it doesn’t happen for good reason...
It’d be like saying RIFT is now the WOW KIller because they are more popular in Kenya today. It might be true on its face but we all know the WOW Killer claim isn’t true all things considered because the rest of the world is still there. You’re trying to spin the game as more successful than it is by trying to place it in a artificial context more favorable to your desires.
Oh, and just for meanness, Runescape can be played in a browser but it is a client based game and they encourage its use. On the purely western market alone which they do share? It has more players than SWTOR too which still makes SWTOR at least number three by your own reckoning when you consider paying subs. :P That doesn't include Dofud either as it has potentially more paying subs here too...
Quote RS Demographics: 60 percent are from the U.S., 25 percent from the EU, smaller percentages from Australia/New Zealand and Canada.
Oh, it doesn’t count? :P The only thing that counts seems to be what you want to count at the time of posting. It surely does by your own standard as an MMORPG,
This post is dumb. ofcourse the number of countries a MMO is released in makes all the difference while comparing it to one which didn't releae on that same level.
How is it even a fair comparison and if that was not your original point why even bring AIOn and Lienage into discussion knowing well that SWTOR hans't released on that scale in Asia yet? and use this flawed premise to prove that Aion and Liengae has more global presence and more people play it compared to SWTOR...well thank you captain obvious.
This is dumb,arrogant, and perhaps a little "too exclusive" (Asians don't matter aye) but It's what I expect out of Europe. It's like when you whined to the Olympic board a few years back to have a particular sport removed because you couldn't medal against the Americans and it wasn't fair.... Remember? A shame you made it happen. Anyway, even throwing them out doesn't make SWTOR the second most successful game by you three's own standard even if you grant it 750K population and frankly that's being generous. Get over it. It's like somebody cried on EVE Vent for help cause they looked bad for sponging numbers. YAY SWTOR is the third most successful game in America and the UK so they are the best and not failing... Yeesh. I hope you work a real job with accountability one day and try to sponge your hours on the beat like that. When you take an honest overview of SWTOR's preformance as a P2P game thay fail for what was spent in comparison to everyone else. Now all we are going to hear is how many accounts they have rather than how many paying subs play so EA can sponge big numbers of people for shareholders while avoiding the earnings report and you'll scream in forum posts that it's no fair to compare them to everyone else in the market cause the rest of it doesn't count...
LOL. I know what it is, You frothing fanbois are afraid EA can't pay for the voice work needed to localize the game for Asia so they'll never make it global aye. Forever a small regional brand...
Only in the MMO world (in a totally non-logical way) would a product making money (IE Profitable) be considered a failure.
Just boggles the mind on how anyone can think like this but meh, haters will be haters even if the 'hate' doesn't make an ounce of sense. ROFL.
So Tor is going ftp, because they are doing so well with subs? Isn't that non-logical?
Try to understand.
Tor is bleeding. It is lossing subs each month. Even if it is doing okay now, it isn't hard to chart the downward silde and realize you are going to be in trouble in the future.
Tor is unable to sustain itself, so desperate measures are being taken.
So Tor is going ftp, because they are doing so well with subs? Isn't that non-logical?
Try to understand.
Tor is bleeding. It is lossing subs each month. Even if it is doing okay now, it isn't hard to chart the downward silde and realize you are going to be in trouble in the future.
Tor is unable to sustain itself, so desperate measures are being taken.
If 'F2P -> more profit' than why not go for it?
According to your logic, Team Fortress2 by Valve is a failure because it changed its business model.
You do know that TF2 generates millions for Valve on 'hats' right?
Like I said, a product that is making money is called a failure by people.... how does that logic work? HOW?
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Dont see how it can be a failure if its still running and making money. Sure the FTP is a PR nightmare and a sure sign of troubling times, but a failure? Maybe its semantics but for it to be a failure to me it would have to be shutdown.
38 studios was a failure; Tabula Rasa was a failure; TOR is a huge disappointment not a failure. Thats not to say it wont fail in the future. Time will tell though.
I had huge hopes for it, but there are some design descions, small and large, which irked me and are the ultimate reasons I dont play anymore. But if it can pull off this FTP switch, it might reviltalize the game in the same fashion as LOTRO and EQ2.
F2P from P2P, especially in this short space of time = failure
Blizzard talked of WOW going F2P at some point several years ago, when the time was right, and populations declined, but obviously that time still is not arriving yet.
Also games that do shut down are not necessarily failures, but business decisions, and LA did not think they would have the need for SWG when SWTOR came along with its billions of players (in with the new out with the old), but now SWG and SWTOR would be more or less equal in population strength, and I bet if LA saw the super fast decline of SWTOR coming they would have hung on to SWG.
I think we just have a different opinion of what a failure is. I probably should have elaborated on what I meant by shutdown, so my bad there. Failure to me is closely linked to dollars. If TOR is still making money as a FTP game then I believe its still successful. TOR will always have the diehard SW fans. There is no other game that allow them to live in that universe. SWG was never a failure to me, just a casualty of Bioware and LA's business decisions. If its shutdown by lack of funds or the population is so small its forced to shutdown, then its a failure.
I do not think SWTOR is making money as that is why they are going F2P. If it was making money they would keep it as P2P. Only time will tell if people will actually play it still even in F2P, and get them back to the equivalent 2.4 million subs via the cash shop of what EA seem to think will happen
No SW:TOR is making money but listen to this... its not making enough money.... so they think they can make more by going freemium, its that simple EA could use some cash at the moment with falling share prices and profits, business is brutal at times and this could all backfire but as I've said in previous posts it was probably planned all along.
EA have stated they need 500k subs to break even, after next month it will drop below that so it will not be making money.
CEO John Riccitiello claims that the forthcoming sci-fi MMORPG will be "substantially profitable" with just a half-million subscribers.
The way things are twisted around these parts it great entertainment and a insight into the minds of many posters, believe what you want niceguy but SWG was a complete mess and a disaster of an MMO and is never coming back so it TOR or broke for you now and the next 8+ years.
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How do you do math when you do not know what the initial investments, operational and other related costs and revenue are? All you know is that SWTOR will be substantially profitable at 500k subscribers and that currently the game has well over that. So I really wonder what "math" you use?
Destined to kill WoW? Says who? Source?
What other game released in past years did not lose subscribers after launch in similar pattern?
Isn't it the other way round and wouldn't it be a failure to ignore and not pursuit an opportunity of F2P conversion to make more money?
Wait....
Where did you see "substantially profitable" at 500k. 500k was the break even point, not the substantially profitable.
And we've linked this stuff a thousand times where the founders of Bioware viewed TOR as going to compete with WoW and be the next big thing in the industry.
While SWTOR is a disappointment, it is no where near the monumental failure that was Tabula Rasa. At least SWTOR has six figure subbers months after release. After all the hype and marketing for TB about it being Richard Garrets big game and it was from the founder of MMO's and all that other nonsense, it failed HARD.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Dont see how it can be a failure if its still running and making money. Sure the FTP is a PR nightmare and a sure sign of troubling times, but a failure? Maybe its semantics but for it to be a failure to me it would have to be shutdown.
38 studios was a failure; Tabula Rasa was a failure; TOR is a huge disappointment not a failure. Thats not to say it wont fail in the future. Time will tell though.
I had huge hopes for it, but there are some design descions, small and large, which irked me and are the ultimate reasons I dont play anymore. But if it can pull off this FTP switch, it might reviltalize the game in the same fashion as LOTRO and EQ2.
F2P from P2P, especially in this short space of time = failure
Blizzard talked of WOW going F2P at some point several years ago, when the time was right, and populations declined, but obviously that time still is not arriving yet.
Also games that do shut down are not necessarily failures, but business decisions, and LA did not think they would have the need for SWG when SWTOR came along with its billions of players (in with the new out with the old), but now SWG and SWTOR would be more or less equal in population strength, and I bet if LA saw the super fast decline of SWTOR coming they would have hung on to SWG.
I think we just have a different opinion of what a failure is. I probably should have elaborated on what I meant by shutdown, so my bad there. Failure to me is closely linked to dollars. If TOR is still making money as a FTP game then I believe its still successful. TOR will always have the diehard SW fans. There is no other game that allow them to live in that universe. SWG was never a failure to me, just a casualty of Bioware and LA's business decisions. If its shutdown by lack of funds or the population is so small its forced to shutdown, then its a failure.
I do not think SWTOR is making money as that is why they are going F2P. If it was making money they would keep it as P2P. Only time will tell if people will actually play it still even in F2P, and get them back to the equivalent 2.4 million subs via the cash shop of what EA seem to think will happen
No SW:TOR is making money but listen to this... its not making enough money.... so they think they can make more by going freemium, its that simple EA could use some cash at the moment with falling share prices and profits, business is brutal at times and this could all backfire but as I've said in previous posts it was probably planned all along.
EA have stated they need 500k subs to break even, after next month it will drop below that so it will not be making money.
CEO John Riccitiello claims that the forthcoming sci-fi MMORPG will be "substantially profitable" with just a half-million subscribers.
The way things are twisted around these parts it great entertainment and a insight into the minds of many posters, believe what you want niceguy but SWG was a complete mess and a disaster of an MMO and is never coming back so it TOR or broke for you now and the next 8+ years.
I am not twisting things.
Outdated information you have there, it is dated Feb 2011, a projected forecast
August 2012 here, in the here and now where all the costs are real:
The President of EA Labels Frank Gibeau said the Star Wars game would still break even so long as it maintained 500,000 subscribers, but admitted that its current performance was "not good enough".
Originally posted by eddieg50 A failure at half a million players LOL, Vanguard would die to have a quarter that many players
If SWTOR did not go F2P, Vanguard will probably have more pop than SWTOR soon!
SWTOR has gone from 1.7m to 0.5m in 6 months and is still declining, and the 6 month subbers expire this month too, plus some will probably quit and wait for F2P now.
Comments
For as expensive as it was, yeah... a bit underwhelming to see it fizzle.
Subjective opinion.
However in my opinion till the game shut down its servers within few months like APB and Tabula Rasa it can not be the biggest failure..;or even better release to die evena quicker death like Dark and Light.
Biggest failure was paying Lucas for the IP. The money spent on his greedy ass could have been spent on development.
Come up with something original, and if you can't because of innovation killing copyright laws, then help change them.
After playing the game 2-3 months early this year, I and aswell others thought already that the game wont hold for longer. A lot user here called people "haters" who critisized SWTOR and failed to recognize what a good mmorpg needs, at the end the situation is worse. Actually there were some people who thought that SWTOR will be F2P in 6 months....they were not exactly right with the time duration but quiete close. Congrats...after Swtor got hyped to be the Game of the Year.
http://www.darthhater.com/devtracker/topic/35031-reasons-why-swtor-will-be-f2p-in-6-mos
People are not dumb and the industry tries hard to push their F2P concepts even with PR campaigns in which they try to claim that monthly fees would allegedly be outdated, fortunately many of the gamers know to avoid and see through such questionable concepts. Unfortunately too many are blindfolded.
edit: didnt know that the option for a monthly subscribtion stays besides the F2P concept....
There is no doubt that SWTOR is the biggest pile of fail in MMO history and it really should be renamed to Tortanic.
Given the supposed budget and given the hype and fanfare I would personally say that SWTOR is the biggest failure to date thus far.
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This.
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Only in the MMO world (in a totally non-logical way) would a product making money (IE Profitable) be considered a failure.
Just boggles the mind on how anyone can think like this but meh, haters will be haters even if the 'hate' doesn't make an ounce of sense. ROFL.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
ah look the boaster are back, hi hehe
...actually only someone who dont recognize the reactions of the stock market would call this a success.
This is dumb,arrogant, and perhaps a little "too exclusive" (Asians don't matter aye) but It's what I expect out of Europe. It's like when you whined to the Olympic board a few years back to have a particular sport removed because you couldn't medal against the Americans and it wasn't fair.... Remember? A shame you made it happen. Anyway, even throwing them out doesn't make SWTOR the second most successful game by you three's own standard even if you grant it 750K population and frankly that's being generous. Get over it. It's like somebody cried on EVE Vent for help cause they looked bad for sponging numbers. YAY SWTOR is the third most successful game in America and the UK so they are the best and not failing... Yeesh. I hope you work a real job with accountability one day and try to sponge your hours on the beat like that. When you take an honest overview of SWTOR's preformance as a P2P game thay fail for what was spent in comparison to everyone else. Now all we are going to hear is how many accounts they have rather than how many paying subs play so EA can sponge big numbers of people for shareholders while avoiding the earnings report and you'll scream in forum posts that it's no fair to compare them to everyone else in the market cause the rest of it doesn't count...
LOL. I know what it is, You frothing fanbois are afraid EA can't pay for the voice work needed to localize the game for Asia so they'll never make it global aye. Forever a small regional brand...
So Tor is going ftp, because they are doing so well with subs? Isn't that non-logical?
Try to understand.
Tor is bleeding. It is lossing subs each month. Even if it is doing okay now, it isn't hard to chart the downward silde and realize you are going to be in trouble in the future.
Tor is unable to sustain itself, so desperate measures are being taken.
If 'F2P -> more profit' than why not go for it?
According to your logic, Team Fortress2 by Valve is a failure because it changed its business model.
You do know that TF2 generates millions for Valve on 'hats' right?
Like I said, a product that is making money is called a failure by people.... how does that logic work? HOW?
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
EA is a joke, They closed down a profitable game Earth and Beyond and keep SW:TOR open. Makes no sense.
CEO John Riccitiello claims that the forthcoming sci-fi MMORPG will be "substantially profitable" with just a half-million subscribers.
http://uk.gamespot.com/news/star-wars-the-old-republic-needs-only-500k-subscribers-ea-6297338
The way things are twisted around these parts it great entertainment and a insight into the minds of many posters, believe what you want niceguy but SWG was a complete mess and a disaster of an MMO and is never coming back so it TOR or broke for you now and the next 8+ years.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
How do I know you don't beat children?
There's no evidence, but you have to prove it false!
Being serious, we know the trend. They started out with 2.4 mill PLAYERS. Then 1.3 SUBSCRIPTIONS. Now "above 500k."
So on what evidence do you present that it has stabilized, when the past 7 months have been nothing but a freakin nosedive?
Wait....
Where did you see "substantially profitable" at 500k. 500k was the break even point, not the substantially profitable.
And we've linked this stuff a thousand times where the founders of Bioware viewed TOR as going to compete with WoW and be the next big thing in the industry.
Dark and Light.
That was a pretty spectacular failure. Maybe not as well known, maybe not as much finances involved.
But the epic implosion that steaming pile of crap was is truly somethbing to be admired.
Have we already forgotten about Final Fantasy 14? I mean, SWTOR, to my knowledge, was at least PLAYABLE -WHEN you broke through the Ques ((Cept PVP)).
Also, Chronicles of Spellborn. Game up!...Game down...uhm....game gone...whereisgame? lol
Not contending for the title of worst ever, but they both had me kicking myself in the ass for burning the cash on them.
The Deep Web is sca-ry.
/agreed
While SWTOR is a disappointment, it is no where near the monumental failure that was Tabula Rasa. At least SWTOR has six figure subbers months after release. After all the hype and marketing for TB about it being Richard Garrets big game and it was from the founder of MMO's and all that other nonsense, it failed HARD.
I am not twisting things.
Outdated information you have there, it is dated Feb 2011, a projected forecast
August 2012 here, in the here and now where all the costs are real:
The President of EA Labels Frank Gibeau said the Star Wars game would still break even so long as it maintained 500,000 subscribers, but admitted that its current performance was "not good enough".
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19077238
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I need a definition of failure, first.
For each person, a ‘fail’ just seems to be whatever they don't like.
Y U T4K3 the funz away?
If SWTOR did not go F2P, Vanguard will probably have more pop than SWTOR soon!
SWTOR has gone from 1.7m to 0.5m in 6 months and is still declining, and the 6 month subbers expire this month too, plus some will probably quit and wait for F2P now.
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Anyone remember Dark and Light?
Still, for the money? Ya, SWTOR crashed and burned pretty hard.
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