Forums are where you go to have your views reinforced. News articles are what you read to have your views challenged and expanded.
No, you're thinking about FoxNews & CNN's news model. News is supposed to be journalism, and TRUE journalism is objective. What you're talking about is subjectivity at its finest.
News articles are what you read to expand your horizons on a particular subject, NOT challenge them.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I was kind of sympathetic to the boy in blue until this morning's article which IS clearly a puff piece. I don't mind strong favorable opinions but they shouldn't be posted as news they should be posted as opinions in blogs. As it stands, it hurts their professional credibility.
Professional credibility?
ALL mmorpg.com staff were very positive about SWTOR (except one but he is gone now). Plus they hyped this game to the max, several articles each week.
I don't come here for the"professional articles" but to read the opinion of users.
I don't know why people keep saying that SWTOR is a single player game. Seriously that is so stupid ... There are plenty of heroic missions and flashpoints that require a group.
You do can solo most of the time IF YOU WANT but still that is also true for most MMO's out there.
So my comment in Mike's F2P "column" got moderated resulting in a warning for me, but a 6 page thread saying exactly the same thing is okay? Do they just spin a roulette wheel to determine what is allowable?
___________________________ Have flask; will travel.
So my comment in Mike's F2P "column" got moderated resulting in a warning for me, but a 6 page thread saying exactly the same thing is okay? Do they just spin a roulette wheel to determine what is allowable?
Depends on the mod running around at the time. Some like MikeB when he goes about that are very open minded.
Others here...especially some of the apparent newer ones....tend to be heavy handed to put it nicely.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Originally posted by Creslin321 Originally posted by ktanner3Originally posted by FdzzaiglThe game still isn't a singleplayer, and you're still stupid to say it is.How F2P changes anything about that is beyond me.And btw, I just unsubbed, so it's not like I'm in a terribly good mood when it comes to TOR I'm not subbed either, but I still agree with the both of you. People on this site get so bent out of shape when others enjoy a game they don't like that they throw any insult around no matter how stupid or childish it is. Just look at all the "nanner nanner" type posts we've seen since the hybrid model was announced.
I don't think anyone believes the game is literally a single player game. This would be a stupid thing to say. I mean, even Super Mario Brothers was a mutliplayer game.
What they mean is that the game feels like a single player game most of the time you are playing.
What is the difference between the posts of a person who believes SWToR is a single player game and a person who doesn't believe it, but who refuses to express the idea in any way other than saying SWToR is a single player game?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
So my comment in Mike's F2P "column" got moderated resulting in a warning for me, but a 6 page thread saying exactly the same thing is okay? Do they just spin a roulette wheel to determine what is allowable?
Depends on the mod running around at the time. Some like MikeB when he goes about that are very open minded.
Others here...especially some of the apparent newer ones....tend to be heavy handed to put it nicely.
Or it could be a case that MMORPG dosen't want its advertising revenue to dry up if game companies wise up to the fact that us gamers see the "writers" columns as the paid advertising it is in some cases
Or it could be a case that MMORPG dosen't want its advertising revenue to dry up if game companies wise up to the fact that us gamers see the "writers" columns as the paid advertising it is in some cases
You don't find it silly to make that assertion considering the topic we're posting in?
Now granted if some other mods here would have gotten a hold of it first then it probably would have been locked.
Has moreso to do with some simply being power trippers and wanting to direct conversations especially relating to games they personally enjoy. There are a few here like that.
Seen it before on other boards too. Got so bad on gamefaqs with a bunch of mods they brought in I stopped going there entirely.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I understand there's always a lot of rage towards the staff of the site for various reasons. I've spoken and worked with a lot of the staff at this site several times, and they are all good guys/girls. The claims of being on the take are silly. There was a game a while back whose name slips my mind, a sci-fi MMo that went belly up really really fast. They had ads all over the front page of the site, and right next to those ads was a review the gave the game a well deserve shit score. People have selective memories when it comes to these things.
I do disagree with Mike B's take on TOR, but I do so respectfully to him. There are other points of view on this topic, and I have written and detailed mine at length. If you want that point to be represented on the front page, simply go there and bump it. Both sides of the coin tend to get trashed, I took my flames back when I predicted what has now come to pass back in November, and he's getting his now. It's important to not let the conversation deteriorate though.
*Pops the Tab on Another Beer.* Man, I am soooo suprised some of you haven't run out of bullets yet. I mean they even run out of bullets in MADNESS COMBAT! Maybe ammo is just too old school a feature for most forum puppies these days. I remember the day when forum PVP required real skill man you couldn't just spam a button you had a real rotation.
Pretty much all of their articles are designed to push advertisers to the site. They really have no harsh criticism for ANY MMO. But at least they allow the discussions to be critical.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Pretty much all of their articles are designed to push advertisers to the site. They really have no harsh criticism for ANY MMO. But at least they allow the discussions to be critical.
Not really.
He said while posting in an EXTREMELY critical forum thread, that honestly should have stayed locked and should never even have been made.
By "balanced" for the most part you mean SWTOR is ossum, and any criticism that the failure of it comes from the game design is foolish.
Saying the stuff has been blown way, way, out of proportion. To that I simply reply: the game lost 75% of its subcriber base in 7 months, despite having the largest budget in history of both game design and MMO marketing. It's sorta tough to blow that out of proportion.
And have there been sub games which failed? Of course. There have been tons of F2P failures as well. What does that tell you? Make a crap game, your going to fail.
It is why WoW, EvE and RIFT continue to thrive with a sub model. (Even with some free trials here and there.) Whatever one thinks of those games, they deliver value to the people playing them. So this isn't a "completely new era" for MMOs. We could enter one if GW2 becomes a resounding success. But let's face it, and this won't generate traffic to your site; we are in an age of godawful MMOs.
Except that a part of those "lost subscribers" are people who never would have liked the game anyways. How many posts have I read on these forums with people leveling criticism at the "story aspects" of the game but yet indicated they would subscribe for a bit ans see where ti goes?
How many people enjoyed the game but found that, once at cap there wasn't much to do that was of interest? I know i fall under that category and fully intended to subscribe again once they put more content into the game?
How many people just bought the game just to try it out? Quite a few.
How many "WoW players" were, once again, looking for WoW 2.0 only to once again not find it? How many people played it because of the pvp? I saw several posts where people complained about the pvp (and with good reason) but then made the statment that it was a pvp game? REally? A pvp game?
This game, especially with the IP, was the type of game that spoke to many different demographics but because of the way it was built was just not going to satisfy everyone who bought it hoping it was going to be somethign that it was not.
The game is exactly what they said it would be. It plays exactly like they said it would. But because of that it has a hard time fulfilling the MMO part of the equation. I suppose it literally is KoTOR in mmo form.
It makes sense that it lost those subs as it is a bit of a niche game. Not what EA or Bioware wants to hear (and I do think there was a bit of arrogance on their part when making the game) but the game "is what it is".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
By "balanced" for the most part you mean SWTOR is ossum, and any criticism that the failure of it comes from the game design is foolish.
Saying the stuff has been blown way, way, out of proportion. To that I simply reply: the game lost 75% of its subcriber base in 7 months, despite having the largest budget in history of both game design and MMO marketing. It's sorta tough to blow that out of proportion.
And have there been sub games which failed? Of course. There have been tons of F2P failures as well. What does that tell you? Make a crap game, your going to fail.
It is why WoW, EvE and RIFT continue to thrive with a sub model. (Even with some free trials here and there.) Whatever one thinks of those games, they deliver value to the people playing them. So this isn't a "completely new era" for MMOs. We could enter one if GW2 becomes a resounding success. But let's face it, and this won't generate traffic to your site; we are in an age of godawful MMOs.
Except that a part of those "lost subscribers" are people who never would have liked the game anyways. How many posts have I read on these forums with people leveling criticism at the "story aspects" of the game but yet indicated they would subscribe for a bit ans see where ti goes?
How many people enjoyed the game but found that, once at cap there wasn't much to do that was of interest? I know i fall under that category and fully intended to subscribe again once they put more content into the game?
How many people just bought the game just to try it out? Quite a few.
How many "WoW players" were, once again, looking for WoW 2.0 only to once again not find it? How many people played it because of the pvp? I saw several posts where people complained about the pvp (and with good reason) but then made the statment that it was a pvp game? REally? A pvp game?
This game, especially with the IP, was the type of game that spoke to many different demographics but because of the way it was built was just not going to satisfy everyone who bought it hoping it was going to be somethign that it was not.
The game is exactly what they said it would be. It plays exactly like they said it would. But because of that it has a hard time fulfilling the MMO part of the equation. I suppose it literally is KoTOR in mmo form.
It makes sense that it lost those subs as it is a bit of a niche game. Not what EA or Bioware wants to hear (and I do think there was a bit of arrogance on their part when making the game) but the game "is what it is".
And that is one of the reasons I like the game, because it is so much like Kotar. I think you are right, the game is exactly what the Developers said it was going to be,
Pretty much all of their articles are designed to push advertisers to the site. They really have no harsh criticism for ANY MMO. But at least they allow the discussions to be critical.
Not really.
He said while posting in an EXTREMELY critical forum thread, that honestly should have stayed locked and should never even have been made.
You realise he did lock it right? When he realised such an action would only match the unprofessional and antagonistic article he wrote and reinforce the OP, he re-opened it with a canned and sanctimonious "Be excellent to each other".
Not that I am one bit surprised to see which posters are the slimy sycophants in this case.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
Pretty much all of their articles are designed to push advertisers to the site. They really have no harsh criticism for ANY MMO. But at least they allow the discussions to be critical.
Not really.
He said while posting in an EXTREMELY critical forum thread, that honestly should have stayed locked and should never even have been made.
You realise he did lock it right? When he realised such an action would only match the unprofessional and antagonistic article he wrote and reinforce the OP, he re-opened it with a canned and sanctimonious "Be excellent to each other".
Not that I am one bit surprised to see which posters are the slimy sycophants in this case.
Actually, I didn't lock it. One of my moderators did. I simply decided to give you guys the benefit of the doubt and re-open it and see how it goes.
I think SWTOR is a good game, certainly when compared to others that have been released in the last few years regardless of whatever budget they spent and regardless of whatever subs they end up with. The reality is they had more box sales in 2011 than any other PC game and still are what, 2nd or 3rd in current active subs (though I'm not one of them for now)?. Not what I expected at this point, maybe it will change with Free to Play. The biggest issue I have with the game is that the world feels too static..something GW2 and my current game Skyrim excel at. But the world felt static in Aion, Vanguard, Warhammer, AOC (except Tortage), shall I go on? One thing I did learn from all of this that Story is just not as important nowadays as GamePlay. I think SWTOR did an amazing job with the story and voiceovers. No other MMO except for AOC tortage comes close. However, even that wasn't enough to get me to end level. For me, GW2 is the opposite. I think the story (from the little Ive seen) is cheesy and for teens, but I love the gameplay and lack of quest hubs. I hope they find a way to make SWTOR more alive like with MUCH more random events and NPCs that move.
As far as Mike's articles, I remember criticizing how anti-TOR this site was 2 years ago. Now I see people with pitchforks marching toward anyone that likes that game. I think whether I agree with him or not his articles are extremely well written and thought out and helpful for those remaining folks that DO like the game. I felt the same way with the more negative articles in the past. Why is that a bad thing? Does everyone have to hate the game for people around here to be happy?
I think SWTOR is a good game, certainly when compared to others that have been released in the last few years regardless of whatever budget they spent and regardless of whatever subs they end up with. The reality is they had more box sales in 2011 than any other PC game and still are what, 2nd or 3rd in current active subs (though I'm not one of them for now)?. Not what I expected at this point, maybe it will change with Free to Play. The biggest issue I have with the game is that the world feels too static..something GW2 and my current game Skyrim excel at. But the world felt static in Aion, Vanguard, Warhammer, AOC (except Tortage), shall I go on? One thing I did learn from all of this that Story is just not as important nowadays as GamePlay. I think SWTOR did an amazing job with the story and voiceovers. No other MMO except for AOC tortage comes close. However, even that wasn't enough to get me to end level. For me, GW2 is the opposite. I think the story (from the little Ive seen) is cheesy and for teens, but I love the gameplay and lack of quest hubs. I hope they find a way to make SWTOR more alive like with MUCH more random events and NPCs that move.
I remember pointing out the lack of movement with NPCs pre-launch and MMO Maverick said "Oh, they just turned the AI down for demonstration purposes." It was right after Gabe did his Tattoine demonstration in the summer. Then when I played it post launch the sandpeople were exactly the same. One or two were walking around, but the majority were just standing there and not moving.
As far as Mike's articles, I remember criticizing how anti-TOR this site was 2 years ago. Now I see people with pitchforks marching toward anyone that likes that game. I think whether I agree with him or not his articles are extremely well written and thought out and helpful for those remaining folks that DO like the game. I felt the same way with the more negative articles in the past. Why is that a bad thing? Does everyone have to hate the game for people around here to be happy?
Comments
No, you're thinking about FoxNews & CNN's news model. News is supposed to be journalism, and TRUE journalism is objective. What you're talking about is subjectivity at its finest.
News articles are what you read to expand your horizons on a particular subject, NOT challenge them.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Professional credibility?
ALL mmorpg.com staff were very positive about SWTOR (except one but he is gone now). Plus they hyped this game to the max, several articles each week.
I don't come here for the"professional articles" but to read the opinion of users.
I don't know why people keep saying that SWTOR is a single player game. Seriously that is so stupid ... There are plenty of heroic missions and flashpoints that require a group.
You do can solo most of the time IF YOU WANT but still that is also true for most MMO's out there.
So my comment in Mike's F2P "column" got moderated resulting in a warning for me, but a 6 page thread saying exactly the same thing is okay? Do they just spin a roulette wheel to determine what is allowable?
___________________________
Have flask; will travel.
Depends on the mod running around at the time. Some like MikeB when he goes about that are very open minded.
Others here...especially some of the apparent newer ones....tend to be heavy handed to put it nicely.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I don't think anyone believes the game is literally a single player game. This would be a stupid thing to say. I mean, even Super Mario Brothers was a mutliplayer game.
What they mean is that the game feels like a single player game most of the time you are playing.
What is the difference between the posts of a person who believes SWToR is a single player game and a person who doesn't believe it, but who refuses to express the idea in any way other than saying SWToR is a single player game?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Or it could be a case that MMORPG dosen't want its advertising revenue to dry up if game companies wise up to the fact that us gamers see the "writers" columns as the paid advertising it is in some cases
I keep looking for the "LIKE" button similar to facebook.. LOL
You don't find it silly to make that assertion considering the topic we're posting in?
Now granted if some other mods here would have gotten a hold of it first then it probably would have been locked.
Has moreso to do with some simply being power trippers and wanting to direct conversations especially relating to games they personally enjoy. There are a few here like that.
Seen it before on other boards too. Got so bad on gamefaqs with a bunch of mods they brought in I stopped going there entirely.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I understand there's always a lot of rage towards the staff of the site for various reasons. I've spoken and worked with a lot of the staff at this site several times, and they are all good guys/girls. The claims of being on the take are silly. There was a game a while back whose name slips my mind, a sci-fi MMo that went belly up really really fast. They had ads all over the front page of the site, and right next to those ads was a review the gave the game a well deserve shit score. People have selective memories when it comes to these things.
I do disagree with Mike B's take on TOR, but I do so respectfully to him. There are other points of view on this topic, and I have written and detailed mine at length. If you want that point to be represented on the front page, simply go there and bump it. Both sides of the coin tend to get trashed, I took my flames back when I predicted what has now come to pass back in November, and he's getting his now. It's important to not let the conversation deteriorate though.
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Its a shame how disrespectful a lot of us are.
I am ashamed of you guys...
:-(
And I mean I'm quite the dick myself, but your unabashed mud slinging at an employee of a website you all claim to enjoy and frequent is disgusting.
Lets have a little bit of civility, lets have some decorum.
Please?
I lost my civility towards the mods when I got banned for ridiculous and unimaginable reasons
"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
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*Pops the Tab on Another Beer.* Man, I am soooo suprised some of you haven't run out of bullets yet. I mean they even run out of bullets in MADNESS COMBAT! Maybe ammo is just too old school a feature for most forum puppies these days. I remember the day when forum PVP required real skill man you couldn't just spam a button you had a real rotation.
Eye for an eye, the whole world's blind.
Someone has to grow up, might as well be you.
Not really.
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Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
He said while posting in an EXTREMELY critical forum thread, that honestly should have stayed locked and should never even have been made.
Except that a part of those "lost subscribers" are people who never would have liked the game anyways. How many posts have I read on these forums with people leveling criticism at the "story aspects" of the game but yet indicated they would subscribe for a bit ans see where ti goes?
How many people enjoyed the game but found that, once at cap there wasn't much to do that was of interest? I know i fall under that category and fully intended to subscribe again once they put more content into the game?
How many people just bought the game just to try it out? Quite a few.
How many "WoW players" were, once again, looking for WoW 2.0 only to once again not find it? How many people played it because of the pvp? I saw several posts where people complained about the pvp (and with good reason) but then made the statment that it was a pvp game? REally? A pvp game?
This game, especially with the IP, was the type of game that spoke to many different demographics but because of the way it was built was just not going to satisfy everyone who bought it hoping it was going to be somethign that it was not.
The game is exactly what they said it would be. It plays exactly like they said it would. But because of that it has a hard time fulfilling the MMO part of the equation. I suppose it literally is KoTOR in mmo form.
It makes sense that it lost those subs as it is a bit of a niche game. Not what EA or Bioware wants to hear (and I do think there was a bit of arrogance on their part when making the game) but the game "is what it is".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
And that is one of the reasons I like the game, because it is so much like Kotar. I think you are right, the game is exactly what the Developers said it was going to be,
You realise he did lock it right? When he realised such an action would only match the unprofessional and antagonistic article he wrote and reinforce the OP, he re-opened it with a canned and sanctimonious "Be excellent to each other".
Not that I am one bit surprised to see which posters are the slimy sycophants in this case.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
Actually, I didn't lock it. One of my moderators did. I simply decided to give you guys the benefit of the doubt and re-open it and see how it goes.
Fair enough and grace points to you then.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
Never trust anything you read on the internet! I can't remember the last time an online review of anything swayed me so much I had to buy a game.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
I think SWTOR is a good game, certainly when compared to others that have been released in the last few years regardless of whatever budget they spent and regardless of whatever subs they end up with. The reality is they had more box sales in 2011 than any other PC game and still are what, 2nd or 3rd in current active subs (though I'm not one of them for now)?. Not what I expected at this point, maybe it will change with Free to Play. The biggest issue I have with the game is that the world feels too static..something GW2 and my current game Skyrim excel at. But the world felt static in Aion, Vanguard, Warhammer, AOC (except Tortage), shall I go on? One thing I did learn from all of this that Story is just not as important nowadays as GamePlay. I think SWTOR did an amazing job with the story and voiceovers. No other MMO except for AOC tortage comes close. However, even that wasn't enough to get me to end level. For me, GW2 is the opposite. I think the story (from the little Ive seen) is cheesy and for teens, but I love the gameplay and lack of quest hubs. I hope they find a way to make SWTOR more alive like with MUCH more random events and NPCs that move.
As far as Mike's articles, I remember criticizing how anti-TOR this site was 2 years ago. Now I see people with pitchforks marching toward anyone that likes that game. I think whether I agree with him or not his articles are extremely well written and thought out and helpful for those remaining folks that DO like the game. I felt the same way with the more negative articles in the past. Why is that a bad thing? Does everyone have to hate the game for people around here to be happy?
There Is Always Hope!
You know what they say. "Misery loves company."
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