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Taking the M out of MMO
disstress
Member Posts: 417
DDO is trying to take the first "m" out of MMO. Instance everything..... theres your multiplayer online roleplaying game. DDO will have about 30 days of attention for the majority of players.
Comments
Yeah this is a train wrack waiting to happen
I am waiting on Vanguard
i do not see much of a problem considering both Guild Wars and WoW uses instances (the first a loooooot heavier than the second) and both have been smashing succeses.
In addition, the "Massive" is still there, cities and the like are public areas where everybody meets.
Giving a better storyline to MMorpg it is something that many wanted, DDO is more like a Neverwinter nights made persistent and for more people than 20 than Everquest, but it seems more than a few likes this kind of gameplay.
Considering also that the ususal interaction between parties while in adventure areas is only negative (kill stealing, "camping" etc) the instancing of dungeons seems mostly positive to me, especially considering there are adventure areas more "public" than the dungeons so you can still meet people outside the city.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Using Guild Wars as a comparison is not a good idea in my mind, unless DDO is going to be Subscription Free. Guild Wars is nice, in that it has decent graphics, and (while limited) a fun Arena.
I've only read the info on MMORPG.COM so far, so I may be missing some pieces. But comparing the game to WoW, saying it's instanced in a similar fashion is so far out of scope. In WoW, there is the world at large that you can run around freely in, where as, GW (and soon to be DDO) it's only the towns, and while the difference is minute (in area size and combat) it's still a very large difference in playstyles.
In my opinion it's going to come down to how much you enjoy offline games vs. online games. GW and now DDO will be nothing more than NWN with IM up. Again, that's just opinion.
I was excited to hear about DDO, until I learned they were taking a GW environment route, rather than a WoW or EQ route.
Mado
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Instancing is part of the very spirit of D&D, someone who complains is NOT a real D&D fan by anymean. A Poseur at best.
D&D products are always about a small group or a solo player (all computer products with D&D tag are solo friendly but 1, now it will be but 2).
D&D events with more then 6 players are scarse and the majority of fans smile and find them geeks assemblies.
Instancing is a blessing, and any MMO without instancing is seriously crippling itself.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I think people need to stop comparing DDO to other MMOs, and start comparing it to how it captures the spirit of D&D.
While instancing can be a bad thing, it is a very good fit for this game. Tell me, in any game of D&D that you have played, how many other people did you play with? Were you sitting in a giant auditorium surrounded by hundreds of other players participating in the EXACT same campaign you were? No, you were only playing with a small group of maybe a half dozen players (give or take). In PnP D&D you're not interacting with hundreds of other real life people, so why should you be doing so in DDO?
I think one of the things Turbine screwed up on is calling this game an MMORPG, because it's not really set up like traditional MMOs. It is not trying to emulate the traditional EQ-type model, but is trying to emulate D&D (succeeding on some things and failing in others
).
I agree with Anofyle, and Darquenblade. I think instancing in this game would be the way to go. The game might still not be any good, but it wont be because of instancing.
I have to agree with the positive side of this argument.
I played PnP D&D, and as stated, it was a big gathering if we had more than 4 people. I don't think that D&DO has hurt their at all by makin the dungeons instanced. There are still towns and more communial instances supposidely that you can fight solo and interact. But really, D&D was alwasys about just that... The Dungeons and the Dragons. Personally, I would much rather run an instanced dungeon with 6 buddies, and have a good ol' Dungeon Romp, then have to deal with gold farmers and the like camping the damm mobs (not to mention all the other bad stuff that can happen). D&DO is really not suppose to be, or ever intended, to be just like Evercrap and the rest of the garbage mmos out there right now that has a lot of us bored to tears. I am looking forward to the more active combat, and the more distinct classes, and the abiltiy to acutally have fun again in a mmog. And if they screw it up, so be it. There is always D&L, Vangard, and Heros Journy to look forward to. Maby one of em will get it right. All I am saying is fellas, lets play the game a bit and then complain if it dosen't work. All is mere speculation right now.
I honestly think the instanced part of the game is the only way to go. like some of you guys.
i.e. how many times (on EQ or UO) have you set up a nice hunt with your friends or guild just to have it ransacked by some childish players? like someone said earlier...you don't have hundreds of people in you bedroom playing a good game of PnP. maybe 4-6 was the most fun group for me.
I personally am excited by the vision the DDO team are taking. As this forum show there are a multitude of games satisfying the traditional MMORPG market. I started on EQ 7 Years ago and thought it was great and then moved through DAoC and am finally on WoW. During this time I have found that what I really like about online gaming is getting to know a group of people through guilds in general, and then achieving things with those people.
It is in the latter are where instances shine as they control the number of people you can bring to the party. In non instance worlds the big mobs have generally fallen to the largest guilds not just through skill but through massive numbers of people. Instead of working on tactics all too often it has been lets get another 10 players to come along next time. So a world full of challenge that cannot be zerged I think is a good thing and the fact that PvP is currently not include will mean that classes will be able to have unique roles in meeting that challenge.
WoW is in many ways a great game interms of gfx and content but I find that after just a few months of play I am just playing it for a weekly run of Molten Core and Onyxia in short it has become stale 200 instances like Molten core and Onyxia with varying degrees if hardness I think is worth going for and personally I am finding it hard to wait.
In short I think there will be a Massive number of people playing DDO the fact that they are not all doing what you are doing exactly what you are doing is to me a good thing as to me Zerging everything is bad.
Izzii
This game, by seperating everyone, is taking the first M out of MMOG(massively multiplayer online game)
This will be a Diablo or GW clone at best (no PvP, but better PvE)and in no way will it be a MMORPG.
Hmm, i trully didnt see any other option a developer could have taken with D&D, instancing is at its core, what D&D is all about, remmenber, they want this game to be as true as possible to D&D, where in your D&D modules did you go out and adventure with 500 other players in a single zone?
Typical D&D adventurers start in a city, tavern, etc... a place where ppl can meet, stormreach will be that place, it will be non-instanced and open to all, then you organize your groups and head off into your adventure... my friend... that is what D&D has always been about, and using instancing was the only option they ever had if they wished to maintain the feel of D&D, otherwise, the game would have ended up like every other generic fantasy mmorpg with monsters from the D&D monster manual, nothing more.
All ur Mountain Dew is belong to me.
"MMORPG" is just marketing anyhow. Here's my experience over the last 6 years in all the various MMORPGs...
Hey Tim and Tom, lets go kill stuff and finish a couple quests. I know a great spot to get Mob X. Oh darn, somebody is already there, lets find another spot. Oh darn, somebody is there too, lets find yet another spot. Yay we found a spot with nobody there, lets kill some mobs. Oh darn, some childish prick is stealing our kills now. Lets go somewhere else to avoid people.
You'll note that there were 3 people in this particular episode, not 500. You'll note that the group repeatedly tried to avoid other people to get XP/Loot/Etc. You'll note the one episode they were forced to interact with one of the other 500+ people in the game it was a bad experience and they tried to avoid it.
The only time I've experienced a large number of people is during various PVP settings, selling loot, or crafting. Even then I'm either interacting with nobody (selling, crafting), one person (selling), or a relatively small number of people compared to the server population (PVP - loosely interacting with 20 people out of 500+ online? And that would be a major battle). So yes, all these "MMORPG"s are Massively Multiplayer in that there are a very large number of people logged into the server. However, the average interaction in these games is with between 0 and 7 people maybe. So what's the point in NOT having instancing since you'll never interact with the rest of the population anyhow, and instancing then allows the world to be more beautiful, detailed, etc.
Give me instancing in a "MMORPG", over laggy seamless worlds, any day!
Oh oh, it's an MMORPG. There's 10 bajillion people online right now!
you know WOW and most other MMO's out there should be called MMOPVP instead of MMORPG since that is basically what you get. I think it's great that DDO is going to make an actual MMORPG.
You know what this game might be?
It might be FUN. D&D is NOT EVERQUEST. I frankly, am sick and tired of all the EQ clones and yes even WoW. I am tired of the time sinks, the boring click make a sandwich come back and loot system. Tired of the Mom and Dad (healer/tank) system that has been used by EVERY freakin eq clone to date. Flat out sick of the RANDOM BS. I dodge more because I have more AGI in DDO you dodge because you did it yourself. ETC
What DDO is, and could be. The end of the 3d irc chat room. Being able to do FUN stuff with a small group of people is what D&D IS.
BOTTOM LINE:
Go play Vanguard, or w/e EQ clone your waiting for.
IF YOU DONT GET IT THEN DONT POST.
Because flat out, all the flamers do not understand what turbine is trying to make. THERE TRYING TO MAKE DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS ONLINE.
Ive seen it all, ive been to the mountain top and back in many mmo games. Guess what, the mmo community that plays the eq clones make up maybe lol 1% OF GAMING CONSUMERS. You talk about appealing to that 1%? I say forget that 1%.
I hate all the instanced crap they're coming up with nowadays. Sure it's fine for a few quests where other players could really spoil the fun but doing it all the time is unnecessary and detracts from immersion and roleplaying.
However, I do think this game will be a great success as they have a huge market to sell it to. Unfortunately this means yet more companies will jump on the instancing band wagon.
I
A tank and a healer and a major part of most rpgs
Looks like your gamer IQ has come up short. When did most RPGS have a Healer and a Tank? When on earth did I ever play say Phantasy Star for the sega master system and have to use my taunt ability while fighting Dark Force to save Rune when he took hate from using a grants spell guess never?
Ultima is a perfect example, When on earth in Ultima one did I have to deal with agro management?
The healer/tank/buffer system is a work around. A cover up. Simply put, those companies couldnt grasp making a game online with REAL game-play. What I am saying is DDO is not a EQ clone and that alone has my interest.
Go read the dev interviews, even the devs said there is no tank class. Fighter is not a tank.
Oh and
Wild Arms 3 is a Final Fantasy 7 Clone, but i dont cry to my mother cause it was a clone it was still a good game.
It is not a good game because you say they are. Fact is, most of us REAL GAMERS, will point to amazing games like say Vagrant Story (not even going to mention games on other conoles/systems because its obvious your a fanboy) as a good game. Not that sh!t.
Dont get upset. I simply evolved who knows maybe some day you will to. Moving on.
I agree that instance zones can be good, but in moderation. To take your analogy- what if you wanted to invite more friends than is allowed to your party? What if a stranger notices your party and offers to make it that much better? What if you want to host an open house? What if you see a big party going on and want to join it or see what's going on there? Instances takes all that away.
-W.