Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

What the hell just happened?!

12467

Comments

  • DerpybirdDerpybird Member Posts: 991
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly

     ...and some are going to balk there isn't any goals

    Others are going to complain DEs are the same old shit

    Some will state WvWs are broke and simply zerg fests

    etc.

    The reality is some people need to take a fucking break from the genre because they're never going to get their holy grail.

    It is like you said yourself. All these games are a grind to one degree or another. All on how the game masks it or makes it potentially entertaining for players not completely jaded.

    imageimage

     

    TSW does have the ability wheel though. If you like to build you have 600 hours of content out the gate. One month in probably with a completely unacceptable /played for a grown man, my wheel is 53% complete.

    In order to get to that 100%, how much of the same content do you need to redo?

    "Loading screens" are not "instances".
    Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  • MadKingMadKing Member UncommonPosts: 173
    Originally posted by ste2000

    To the OP.................most people saw that coming ages ago.

    Yet MMORPG.com gave TSW 9/10 in Longevity in their review.................sometimes I wonder if they know the true meaning of Longevity.

    Agreed ^

    I'm not surprised I knew TSW was very limited after playing for 2 weeks in the closed beta. what many may not realize is that to make a game last longer  you need things to distract players from the main story. mini games, puzzles, collectables etc. are great examples.

    hence why I like GW2 so much, I got lost in just playing the jumping puzzles, keg brawl, collecting Vistas, exploring, WvW, sPvP, Crafting, and my favorite the random funny dynamic events, they are a few a lot of people missed that I wont spoil for them. :P

    I haven't even touched the personal story and I've been in all the BWEs and stress tests, the game have a lot of content to hold me for months, but I know a few people will rush the personal story to lvl 80 beat the game and claim there isn't anything to do.

     

  • RohnRohn Member UncommonPosts: 3,730
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by BadSpock


    I truly hope not.

    But GW2 does have many features designed to promote longevity like no-gear grind PvP w/ player made and official ladder-style tournaments (eSport).

    Semi-persistent owPvP in the form of WvW.

    Level downscale to make all content relevant for completionists like me.

    And it's got no sub fee, so I can keep coming back as often or as little as I want without being stuck to a monthly price tag.

    All MMO games are grind, it just depends on how they try to hide it and whether or not it's a fun grind or not.

    I had a great deal of fun grinding gear and content in WoW on/off for almost 7 years.

    But I'm tired of that same old model I've been playing since 2004. I want something different. The one decent AAA sandbox game on the market (EvE) just has too much I don't like, so I'm hopeful GW2 will be that new direction for me.

    But I'm not going to hijack this thread with all the reasons why GW2 is different from the big old list of themeparks I listed before.

    I will just say again that TSW is NOT different enough to stand out, and the OP is now seeing that too.

     ...and some are going to balk there isn't any goals

    Others are going to complain DEs are the same old shit

    Some will state WvWs are broke and simply zerg fests

    etc.

    The reality is some people need to take a fucking break from the genre because they're never going to get their holy grail.

    It is like you said yourself. All these games are a grind to one degree or another. All on how the game masks it or makes it potentially entertaining for players not completely jaded.

    imageimage

     

    TSW does have the ability wheel though. If you like to build you have 600 hours of content out the gate. One month in probably with a completely unacceptable /played for a grown man, my wheel is 53% complete.

     

    Also agree, Wickedjelly is correct.  In every game, for every person who loves a system or bit of content, there will be others that don't.

    I'm only a little over 25% on the skill wheel, and I just started Transylvania, so I have a way to go.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843
    Originally posted by Derpybird
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly

     ...and some are going to balk there isn't any goals

    Others are going to complain DEs are the same old shit

    Some will state WvWs are broke and simply zerg fests

    etc.

    The reality is some people need to take a fucking break from the genre because they're never going to get their holy grail.

    It is like you said yourself. All these games are a grind to one degree or another. All on how the game masks it or makes it potentially entertaining for players not completely jaded.

    imageimage

     

    TSW does have the ability wheel though. If you like to build you have 600 hours of content out the gate. One month in probably with a completely unacceptable /played for a grown man, my wheel is 53% complete.

    In order to get to that 100%, how much of the same content do you need to redo?

    Well I pvp a lot sooo... and I change builds a lot too, sooo... To be honest I don't have 1 zone more than 20% complete sooo.. I don't think I'd have to repeat much if any...

     

    I guess I just play different. thanks TSW!

  • TdogSkalTdogSkal Member UncommonPosts: 1,244
    Originally posted by Mylan12
    Originally posted by Sorrow

    I think part of the issue is we have gotten way better at playing games we now fly thru content, honestly the only solution is EQ style mega guild raid zones but seems no developers even wanna touch that

     I not played this game except in beta but  EQ had the same content problems early on. I remember only having the two dragons to kill for raid content in EQ and everyone hoping that the server would crash so that we get a respawn. It was a while before Fear and Hate raid zones came out.  The thing being that there was little else around to play so early on at least people stuck with EQ and waited for new content. Now days after a few days they jump on to a new game. 

    The Thing about EQ1 was that it took you a lot longer to level to max level to hit those raids.  It took me almost a year to hit max level in EQ1, playing daily like I still do with games today but today in a year, I have easly done everything the "Next Gen" games have to offer.   2 years into EQ1 and I still had place to explorer even just because I never been there.

    I agree, most look at old games like EQ1, UO with rose colored glasses but the journey in both UO and EQ1 where worth the time, the same cannot be said for today's games.

    Sooner or Later

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Tabloid42
    Originally posted by BadSpock
     

    If Anet can pull it off, it will change the idea of PvE endgame forever.

     

    Pardon my 'not in the know' but what is this awesome endgame mechanic you speak of?  This is for GW2? I am always interested in new mechanics to shake up the mold. I would like to know Why it would be such a game changer and immune to the hardcore speed players?

    My question here is, what past Sandbox game met your requirments where you can play indefinitely and why?  ( EveONline is the only one that I played that comes to mind, constant territory fighitng and resource wars).

    Now what Thempark game in the past has never had the exact same 'I finished all the content and now I am bored" argument posed by the hardcore?  I can't think of any.

    I played UO forever because there was no "grind" and no objectives just... fun. Which is funny someone else in this thread said GW2 "had no objectives" and I don't see that as a bad thing - I get to set my own objectives.

    SWG was a terrible sandbox IMO it was all grind all grind all grind, and I think EvE is the same - especially in PvE.

    The constant resource/territory wars in EvE is all PvP and I despise the PvP in EvE because it is far, far too focused on gear, stats, and CC (which all equates to how much $ you have and how long you've been playing) and I hate their concept of "balance" in that a large ship has nothing to fear from even an entire fleet of small ships, because the small ship can't do any damage to the big ship and the big ship can't hit the small ship...

    No themepark has ever had "end-game" that wasn't about content consumption.

    The "new" twist GW2 is putting on PvE end-game is a series of high (max) level zones where the players are in a unified fight against a persistent, unified NPC army in a back and forth game of territorial control and resource acquisition.

    If players don't fight or don't fight well, they lose ground, if they win they gain ground, but they can just as easily lose it.

    So in that sense it's like WvW but against the AI.

    Will it work? No one knows. It might be too easy and it'll end up just being a "let's zerg everything, "win", then allow the zones to reset and do it again."

    But I hope Anet has turned the dials enough and can make adjustments on the fly to keep it dynamic and engaging.

    But it is a "new" mechanic - the closest thing I can recall is Tabula Rasa where the Bane would take control of territory and fight the players in a global game of territorial capture, but TR really fell short and the players complained that it interfered too much with their quest grind... so dumb...

    Well GW2 doesn't have a quest grind and the 3 mega zones of Orr don't contain any "quests" or anything except massive multi-chain events that all lead to / branch from the concept of territorial capture/control against the AI.

    Ok.. There are no faction in GW2 you are always united!

     

    So you are telling me a PvE zone with quest mobs and capture point objective is... um a twist? 

     

    Idk man these dudes at NCsoft/Anet are some real spin doctors.

     

    NCsoft/Anet - "End game starts at level 1" - 

    mmorpg fans - wtf Anet no endgame?

    NCsoft/Anet - There is an endgame! it's a PvE zone with capture objectives and you must fight off the NPCs!

    GW2 fans - Awesome endgame!

    The rest of the mmorpg world - It's another quest zone with mobs walking around...

  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    Originally posted by Four0Six
    Originally posted by ste2000

    To the OP.................most people saw that coming ages ago.

    Yet MMORPG.com gave TSW 9/10 in Longevity in their review.................sometimes I wonder if they know the true meaning of Longevity.

     But for almost a decade WoW has held millions of subs.

     

    Yes exactly...............that's WOW.

    But it is TSW that got 9/10 in Longevity............not WOW.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    But it is a "new" mechanic - the closest thing I can recall is Tabula Rasa where the Bane would take control of territory and fight the players in a global game of territorial capture, but TR really fell short and the players complained that it interfered too much with their quest grind...

    Well GW2 doesn't have a quest grind and the 3 mega zones of Orr don't contain any "quests" or anything except massive multi-chain events that all lead to / branch from the concept of territorial capture/control against the AI.

    Ok.. There are no faction in GW2 you are always united!

    So you are telling me a PvE zone with quest mobs and capture point objective is... um a twist? 

    Idk man these dudes at NCsoft/Anet are some real spin doctors.

    NCsoft/Anet - "End game starts at level 1" - 

    mmorpg fans - wtf Anet no endgame?

    NCsoft/Anet - There is an endgame! it's a PvE zone with capture objectives and you must fight off the NPCs!

    GW2 fans - Awesome endgame!

    The rest of the mmorpg world - It's another quest zone with mobs walking around...

    Wel it is the same thing that you do level 1-79 it's just on a much larger scale and the persistence and difficulty is ramped up. All events in GW2 scale but in Orr it will require a lot of players... they are "group" events (or I think they call them "elite" events) so they don't down-scale to small group/solo player difficulty.

    Just because you don't understand and don't choose to leave your bubble doesn't mean you are right.

    Calling it "another quest zone with mobs walking around" is like saying TOR and EVE are exactly the same because "both games have space combat."

    Still, at the end of the day, when compared to TSW and instance/raid grinding for gear - it's a step in the right direction IMO.

  • MithrandolirMithrandolir Member UncommonPosts: 1,701

    I'm a big sandbox fan, however I do seem to enjoy a well made themepark too. But there is a massive difference to me, between a typical themepark mmo and a heavily story driven themepark mmo. The latter being extremely boring to me, if not immediately then very shortly thereafter.

    I love lore, but it should be delievered in a way that is not a heavy story imo.

    Heavy story, where the story is the game pretty much, should be reserved for sp games, books and movies, again imo. It simply does not translate well into a multiplayer persistent experience.

  • cyress8cyress8 Member Posts: 832
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    But it is a "new" mechanic - the closest thing I can recall is Tabula Rasa where the Bane would take control of territory and fight the players in a global game of territorial capture, but TR really fell short and the players complained that it interfered too much with their quest grind...

    Well GW2 doesn't have a quest grind and the 3 mega zones of Orr don't contain any "quests" or anything except massive multi-chain events that all lead to / branch from the concept of territorial capture/control against the AI.

    Ok.. There are no faction in GW2 you are always united!

    So you are telling me a PvE zone with quest mobs and capture point objective is... um a twist? 

    Idk man these dudes at NCsoft/Anet are some real spin doctors.

    NCsoft/Anet - "End game starts at level 1" - 

    mmorpg fans - wtf Anet no endgame?

    NCsoft/Anet - There is an endgame! it's a PvE zone with capture objectives and you must fight off the NPCs!

    GW2 fans - Awesome endgame!

    The rest of the mmorpg world - It's another quest zone with mobs walking around...

    Wel it is the same thing that you do level 1-79 it's just on a much larger scale and the persistence and difficulty is ramped up. All events in GW2 scale but in Orr it will require a lot of players... they are "group" events (or I think they call them "elite" events) so they don't down-scale to small group/solo player difficulty.

    Just because you don't understand and don't choose to leave your bubble doesn't mean you are right.

    Calling it "another quest zone with mobs walking around" is like saying TOR and EVE are exactly the same because "both games have space combat."

    Still, at the end of the day, when compared to TSW and instance/raid grinding for gear - it's a step in the right direction IMO.

    Less instancing more open world fun!

    BOOYAKA!

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979
    Originally posted by bcbully

    [mod edit]

    Oh I agree - but it's their jobs. All MMO devs will tell your their game is the best thing since sliced bread.

    It gets annoying no matter what studio it is and what game it is.

  • SkuzSkuz Member UncommonPosts: 1,018

    I read the first few posts as:

    "Hey I just chewed the hell out of the content in this game in the fastest possible time I could, ONLY playing 12 hours a day & short-cutting through the slow stuff like investigations & now I'm so frakking bored the game is dead to me"

    No s**t, Sherlock!

    Players only have themselves to blame if they consume the game so fast it gave the npc's nosebleeds.

    No developer has yet managed to create a themepark ride to satisfy this extreme type of player, newsflash: no game yet made will keep you entertained for long unless it's got the tools to let you build your own content - and not many of this type even want to do that, it's too slow a process for them.

    Powergamers = Powerwhiners.

  • MardukkMardukk Member RarePosts: 2,222

    Eagerly awaits the end of October (or maybe earlier) when I can see all of the posts about running out of things to do in GW2.  Spin it however you GW2 people want to it's the same limited Themepark design as all the rest.  PvE people will be out of things to do.

     

    It's all the same whether I do a quest that is a bit better than usual (TSW) but still much like what we have been used to or I run to circles on a map and spam AoE's (GW2).

     

    I guess debating with rabid fans is pointless at this time.  We will see the results in a couple months. 

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979
    Originally posted by Mardukk

    Eagerly awaits the end of October (or maybe earlier) when I can see all of the posts about running out of things to do in GW2.  Spin it however you GW2 people want to it's the same limited Themepark design as all the rest.  PvE people will be out of things to do.

    It's all the same whether I do a quest that is a bit better than usual (TSW) but still much like what we have been used to or I run to circles on a map and spam AoE's (GW2).

    I guess debating with rabid fans is pointless at this time.  We will see the results in a couple months. 

    It is safe to say that PvE content locusts will never be happy. This is very true.

    Longevity then comes from whatever else the game has when the "main" form of PvE content "runs out."

     

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 4,990
    Originally posted by Mardukk

    Eagerly awaits the end of October (or maybe earlier) when I can see all of the posts about running out of things to do in GW2.  Spin it however you GW2 people want to it's the same limited Themepark design as all the rest.  PvE people will be out of things to do.

     

    It's all the same whether I do a quest that is a bit better than usual (TSW) but still much like what we have been used to or I run to circles on a map and spam AoE's (GW2).

     

    I guess debating with rabid fans is pointless at this time.  We will see the results in a couple months. 

     Gonna be annoying as hell for me. Considering I'll be playing the game they always do a 180 on and bash to no end.

    It gets really old seeing the same posters do it time after time. It is kind of comical I suppose as well though.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • SkuzSkuz Member UncommonPosts: 1,018
    Originally posted by cyress8
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    But it is a "new" mechanic - the closest thing I can recall is Tabula Rasa where the Bane would take control of territory and fight the players in a global game of territorial capture, but TR really fell short and the players complained that it interfered too much with their quest grind...

    Well GW2 doesn't have a quest grind and the 3 mega zones of Orr don't contain any "quests" or anything except massive multi-chain events that all lead to / branch from the concept of territorial capture/control against the AI.

    Ok.. There are no faction in GW2 you are always united!

    So you are telling me a PvE zone with quest mobs and capture point objective is... um a twist? 

    Idk man these dudes at NCsoft/Anet are some real spin doctors.

    NCsoft/Anet - "End game starts at level 1" - 

    mmorpg fans - wtf Anet no endgame?

    NCsoft/Anet - There is an endgame! it's a PvE zone with capture objectives and you must fight off the NPCs!

    GW2 fans - Awesome endgame!

    The rest of the mmorpg world - It's another quest zone with mobs walking around...

    Wel it is the same thing that you do level 1-79 it's just on a much larger scale and the persistence and difficulty is ramped up. All events in GW2 scale but in Orr it will require a lot of players... they are "group" events (or I think they call them "elite" events) so they don't down-scale to small group/solo player difficulty.

    Just because you don't understand and don't choose to leave your bubble doesn't mean you are right.

    Calling it "another quest zone with mobs walking around" is like saying TOR and EVE are exactly the same because "both games have space combat."

    Still, at the end of the day, when compared to TSW and instance/raid grinding for gear - it's a step in the right direction IMO.

    Less instancing more open world fun!

    Less co-ordinated groups with distinct roles & strategies, more open-world zerging with less responsibility.

  • RohnRohn Member UncommonPosts: 3,730
    Originally posted by Mithrandolir

    I'm a big sandbox fan, however I do seem to enjoy a well made themepark too. But there is a massive difference to me, between a typical themepark mmo and a heavily story driven themepark mmo. The latter being extremely boring to me, if not immediately then very shortly thereafter.

    I love lore, but it should be delievered in a way that is not a heavy story imo.

    Heavy story, where the story is the game pretty much, should be reserved for sp games, books and movies, again imo. It simply does not translate well into a multiplayer persistent experience.

     

    Generally speaking, the "standard" themepark is a story-driven one as well, just with really, REALLY shitty stories.

    You know the quest text that everyone skips through, and just hits "accept" to get to the goal, kill X of Y, collect C of D, whatever?  Those are actually stories.  They are extremely bad stories, akin to a random word generator, but they are stories nonetheless.  Largely, they are one-off, and have no bearing on the gameworld, but they're stories.

    They are also one of the most complained about parts of the modern MMO.  "Give me something else, I'm tired of kill X of Y."

    Running a thousand such quests also does not translate well into a multiplayer persistent experience.  The only thing that really does take advantage of the persistent world and virtual society is player-driven content in which the players and player-made constructs become the content, i.e. sandbox play.

    Everything else is repetitive and worthless to the persistent world, whether that's quest hubbing "kill X of Y" quests, running the same instance or battleground over and over, PQs, rifts, or scripted dynamic events.

    It makes little sense to me to play a themepark game, and be surprised that it *gasp*, offers themepark play.  They all do.  It's like playing a shooter, and being shocked and offended that you're "forced" to, you know, shoot things in it.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,607
    Originally posted by Wighty
    Originally posted by tank017
    That's theme parks for ya.they all last about a month out of the gate until they start running out of content.Then you must wait for content updates and xpacks.

    Man I hear you, I am familiar with MMO's since their inception. The last few out the gate have been ridiculous, TOR, now TSW.... I mean they frontload you with all this tasty goodness with good storylines and great progession through the zones, only to have this ridiculously redundant gameplay.

     Is this the MMO business model nowadays... Perhaps it's time for a new hobby... Hopefully GW2 will not be the same ol.

    Indeedy...

    Now you know why they're having the big promo weekend with FC point rewards if you finish 30 missions this weekend.  They want their launch subscribers to stay on for another month.  Both devious and clever...

     

  • Joseph_KerrJoseph_Kerr Member RarePosts: 1,113
    Originally posted by Airhead80

    The second ride on a rollercoaster is never as fun as the first.


    Its amazing that devs havent come to this conclusion yet.

  • fallenlordsfallenlords Member UncommonPosts: 683

    I am well known for my dislike of Funcom, but in this instance I am a bit taken aback.  You blitz through a game and then go, what do I do now?  Perhaps you should have taken your time, savored the moments and not looked to run through as if it is some sort of race.  I am sure more people would get more pleasure from games if they paced themselves.  As a rule of thumb trying not to finish the content until there is new content available works quite well for extending the longevity. Look for what else you can do within the game as you are going along, not once you have finished it.

     

    Even with my total lack of respect for Funcom I certainly can't believe there is only a months worth of content in this game,  You might have used up the content in in a month with your style of play. But an MMO like this should keep the average player happy for at least six months. 

  • AthisioAthisio Member Posts: 72
     Finishing the content and Enjoying the content are two very different things.
  • Belly1974Belly1974 Member Posts: 20

    See I've kind of done the same thing as OP... I loved the story etc but now I have to grind like crazy just to get any half decent gear... I so wish these companies wouldn't do this.... :/

    That said, how else could they do it? I've only really played WoW, Rift, SWToR and now TSW and they all seem to run the same way... Play and awesome story, then grind like mad... Do other companies do it a different way, if so is it better? (Sorry for my in-experience here).

    It is like a different game for me too... I do have some hope in the fact I made some new mates in a decent guild, but running the same stuff over and over isn't the way forward imo :(

  • TruthXHurtsTruthXHurts Member UncommonPosts: 1,555
    Originally posted by Airhead80

    The second ride on a rollercoaster is never as fun as the first.

    It is if you don't buckle your harness.

    "I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  • DerpybirdDerpybird Member Posts: 991
    Originally posted by fallenlords

    I am well known for my dislike of Funcom, but in this instance I am a bit taken aback.  You blitz through a game and then go, what do I do now?  Perhaps you should have taken your time, savored the moments and not looked to run through as if it is some sort of race.  I am sure more people would get more pleasure from games if they paced themselves.  As a rule of thumb trying not to finish the content until there is new content available works quite well for extending the longevity. Look for what else you can do within the game as you are going along, not once you have finished it.

     

    Even with my total lack of respect for Funcom I certainly can't believe there is only a months worth of content in this game,  You might have used up the content in in a month with your style of play. But an MMO like this should keep the average player happy for at least six months. 

    I believe there is some truth in what you say. My best guess is that there are about 200-250 hours of content in the game. This does not include repeatable missions, dungeons, or PvP. A chunk of that content needs to be discovered because quests are not in a "hub" per se, so maybe people are missing some of the content. Investigation missions also take some time, unless you just look up the answer.

    However, I think that what you describe above as taking time and savouring the moment applies more to a single-player experience than to an MMO where you pay a monthly fee. Maybe it's just me, but when I'm paying to access a game, even if it's only $.50 a day, I feel like I'm not getting my money's worth if I pick it up only a couple hours a week. And in fact, with that approach, a $50 game could end up costing $200 over the course of a year, or more, which I suppose still isn't a lot of if you enjoy it.

    On top of this, there were some design decisions which lessens the duration of the game. Yes, there is a skill wheel to unlock, but there is one leveling path. Since there is a skill wheel there is no reason to make alts. Yes there are 3 factions but there's no real difference between them in terms of gameplay. Once you've cleared lower level content there is no reason to go back, so QL10 players are stuck in Transylvania, grinding instances, PvP, or hoping each month that the next content patch is good, all while paying to access their character.

    "Loading screens" are not "instances".
    Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  • ZekiahZekiah Member UncommonPosts: 2,483
    Welcome to Themepark.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

Sign In or Register to comment.