I'm all for customization anytime, anywhere and sPvP is no exception.
Since ANet is gearing up for eSports regarding sPvP I'm pretty sure they want characters to look more generic or at least like one another.
Additionally, sPvP from a lore standpoint is that you are engaging in a battle that already took place (or in the future). That's why it's in the Mists. As such you are fighting for a particular army and as such would be wearing similar attire.
Lastly ANet would have to program a temporary override on your gear's color scheme while your in there to maintain red and blue teams. Even then colors apply in different hues.
I hear where you are coming from but I imagine they probably will not change it.
I'll throw in a quick comment regarding the progression in terms of cosmetic rewars (cooler looking stuff).
It worked just fine for most people in GW1. Max level was 20, which you could reach in 5-8 hours if you tried, there was no progression in terms of power at all after that. Still, people spent hundreds or thousands of hours in game, when for vast majority of time in game, there was absolutely no progression other than cosmetic items. Some of those cosmetic items even sold for huge amounts of in game cash (crystalline sword, anyone?)! I can't see a reason why this wouldn't work in GW2.
The big question is how many people of those who played GW1 actually stuck with it?
If 2 million buy GW2 but only 10% like the "endgame" and stick with it for more than a 2-3 months, would that be a success?
Don't think they've ever released actual concurrent player numbers, however based on pure observation and estimation by the number of people around and instances of major cities in each of the servers, the retention rate is definitely way more than 10% after a few months in, even a few years in. I'm fairly certain the main thing that drove people away from the original game wasn't cosmetic progression at end-game. Also bear in mind that cosmetic progression wasn't the only endgame activity in GW1, nor will it be the only activity in GW2, hence the ones not interested by cosmetic gear still have other things they can do.
My point was that you can't just dismiss cosmetic progression as valid endgame content, because we can already see it being successful in both GW1, and loads of other games.
My mind is telling me that the progression and "endgame" will cause an exodus, but I REALLLLLY hope not. I want this game to last a very long time, but we wont know until we have it and see high level content.
Originally posted by MikeJezZ @adzija, what about using your pve gear in pvp as cosmetic? Omg all start read replies pls :P
I have read it
I would love that too but as it is now we won't have it.
Just wanted to say that for me I can live with that because all will be starting equal gear-wise in there. If there was a way to bring the look of your PVE gear in sPVP and get same stats as usuall that would be awesome but we will not see that at launch I think (not 100% sure).
That aside it is a good idea and would make grinding for that cosmetic piece even more worth for lot of players.
Originally posted by Chrisbox My mind is telling me that the progression and "endgame" will cause an exodus, but I REALLLLLY hope not. I want this game to last a very long time, but we wont know until we have it and see high level content.
On the other hand, Exodus doesnt matter. In the B2P model, the money is already made. Servers are merged easily for lower costs and healthy population. And with the next expansions for 50 bucks the achievers are back again.
I really, and I mean really have no freaking idea how anyone can say GW2 has no progression. You progress the same as any other RPG type game; levels, skill tree, gear.
As for OP, you say gear is cosmetic? Gear has stats, and while the game doesn't revolve around grinding dungeons and mobs for certain gear, or grinding like a mofo to get the tier of gear you need/want for pvp you get a straight up equal opportunity to fight a fair match against everyone else.
There is still that special gear and those special items out there you can get by grinding points, karma gear, and whatever the pvp point system is.
The most confusing thing the OP says is the game us fun, but is logging in to have fun enough? Bwahaha, wtf? I'm pretty sure we all play video games to entertain ourselves and have fun, right?
So if you are having fun, what else matters? PFfssahhhthhs, unlike many other mmo's where the "real fun starts at level cap". OR, "I just need to get this last set of gear and I'll be good to go". Lawl.....fuckin chump.
My point was that you can't just dismiss cosmetic progression as valid endgame content, because we can already see it being successful in both GW1, and loads of other games.
Can you give me names of those other games? BTW there aren't many players left in GW1 and their numbers would be even lower if there was no HoM and rewards for GW2. It only proves that a very small minority likes that kind of endgame.
My point was that you can't just dismiss cosmetic progression as valid endgame content, because we can already see it being successful in both GW1, and loads of other games.
Can you give me names of those other games? BTW there aren't many players left in GW1 and their numbers would be even lower if there was no HoM and rewards for GW2. It only proves that a very small minority likes that kind of endgame.
Team Fortress 2 and it's hats. There are no stats for hats (save for "set" hats that were introduced nearly 1yr after plain hats). But people still go ga-ga over those hats. Trust me, ##'s games are stupid...but playing dress up with the gear that makes you look super bad-ass is where it's at.
My point was that you can't just dismiss cosmetic progression as valid endgame content, because we can already see it being successful in both GW1, and loads of other games.
Can you give me names of those other games? BTW there aren't many players left in GW1 and their numbers would be even lower if there was no HoM and rewards for GW2. It only proves that a very small minority likes that kind of endgame.
Team Fortress 2 and it's hats. There are no stats for hats (save for "set" hats that were introduced nearly 1yr after plain hats). But people still go ga-ga over those hats. Trust me, ##'s games are stupid...but playing dress up with the gear that makes you look super bad-ass is where it's at.
It isn't an MMO tho. People also played counter-strike which had no rewards at all. FPSs are different.
My point was that you can't just dismiss cosmetic progression as valid endgame content, because we can already see it being successful in both GW1, and loads of other games.
Can you give me names of those other games? BTW there aren't many players left in GW1 and their numbers would be even lower if there was no HoM and rewards for GW2. It only proves that a very small minority likes that kind of endgame.
Team Fortress 2 and it's hats. There are no stats for hats (save for "set" hats that were introduced nearly 1yr after plain hats). But people still go ga-ga over those hats. Trust me, ##'s games are stupid...but playing dress up with the gear that makes you look super bad-ass is where it's at.
It isn't an MMO tho. People also played counter-strike which had no rewards at all. FPSs are different.
how so? people played because PVP is fun. If an MMO can do the same why would people not stick around just to enjoy PVP as they do in FPS?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
There are differences between the item quality ranks of level 80 gear, and it isn't all just cosmetic. The difference between level 80 Rare and Exotic item can be seen below:
Originally posted by UsulDaNeriak Originally posted by ChrisboxMy mind is telling me that the progression and "endgame" will cause an exodus, but I REALLLLLY hope not. I want this game to last a very long time, but we wont know until we have it and see high level content.
On the other hand, Exodus doesnt matter. In the B2P model, the money is already made. Servers are merged easily for lower costs and healthy population. And with the next expansions for 50 bucks the achievers are back again. But how many times will something like that lure them back in?
If someone gets bored after a couple months and leaves GW2 to play something else and then later returns for an expansion only to be bored even faster will he be back for the next expansion?
Active server population is going to matter a lot in GW2. And server merges are the Death Knell to MMOs.
Originally posted by ChrisboxMy mind is telling me that the progression and "endgame" will cause an exodus, but I REALLLLLY hope not. I want this game to last a very long time, but we wont know until we have it and see high level content.
On the other hand, Exodus doesnt matter. In the B2P model, the money is already made. Servers are merged easily for lower costs and healthy population. And with the next expansions for 50 bucks the achievers are back again.
But how many times will something like that lure them back in?
If someone gets bored after a couple months and leaves GW2 to play something else and then later returns for an expansion only to be bored even faster will he be back for the next expansion?
Active server population is going to matter a lot in GW2. And server merges are the Death Knell to MMOs.
Also WvW only works if there is a healthy population on all servers. If the server populations start dropping Anet will have to merge asap or they risk losing players even faster.
Originally posted by ChrisboxMy mind is telling me that the progression and "endgame" will cause an exodus, but I REALLLLLY hope not. I want this game to last a very long time, but we wont know until we have it and see high level content.
On the other hand, Exodus doesnt matter. In the B2P model, the money is already made. Servers are merged easily for lower costs and healthy population. And with the next expansions for 50 bucks the achievers are back again.
But how many times will something like that lure them back in?
If someone gets bored after a couple months and leaves GW2 to play something else and then later returns for an expansion only to be bored even faster will he be back for the next expansion?
Active server population is going to matter a lot in GW2. And server merges are the Death Knell to MMOs.
Here's the thing, since it's a one time purchase, I'm assuming many will treat it like a single player game. You play until you no longer have fun, then you go do something else.
Just look at all the sequels that are extremely successful for single player games.
Server merges are the usually the sign of sub-based MMO not doing well. However, GW2 is B2P I'd consider it a natural part of the cycle. Put out a game/expansion -> Huge influx of players -> High populations for a couple months -> People start leaving -> cycle repeats.
People will naturally stop coming back as you are talking about a cycle that takes place on the timescale of years, so people get distracting, they have stuff come up in their lives, etc. But there will also always be new people starting. Even in GW1, whenever I log in I can still find new players despite the fact that an expansion hasn't been put out since 2007. It's actually the same with WoW. Blizzard puts out a new expansion -> people come back in droves -> high populations for a while -> people leave.
However, remember that Anet also often releases new content between each expansion. Look at what they are doing with GW:Beyond right now. And then Sorrows Furnace in prophecies days.
My point was that you can't just dismiss cosmetic progression as valid endgame content, because we can already see it being successful in both GW1, and loads of other games.
Can you give me names of those other games? BTW there aren't many players left in GW1 and their numbers would be even lower if there was no HoM and rewards for GW2. It only proves that a very small minority likes that kind of endgame.
Actually there are A LOT of people left in GW1. Every time I go to a major city, there's always around 5-6 districts. And most towns/outposts have many people in them, except for those that are really far out of the way. GW1 has a very good sized population still. And even among those that don't play regularly anymore, many still log in every couple months or so to see what's changed. This was the benefit of ArenaNet's business model. We could always log back in in a couple months and see how old guild mates are doing, or how some old friends are doing. You can do some PvP, or vanquish with them, and then just move on. No need to break out the credit card and resub.
Also remember, GW1 population has gone down because Anet has not put out an expansion or campaign in 5 years (can't believe it's already been that long). While they are putting out content in GW:Beyond, it's not a new campaign or expansion. So you have to think the lack of a new continent to explore would be a contributing factor in the decline of GW1 population.
Originally posted by Chrisbox My mind is telling me that the progression and "endgame" will cause an exodus, but I REALLLLLY hope not. I want this game to last a very long time, but we wont know until we have it and see high level content.
On the other hand, Exodus doesnt matter. In the B2P model, the money is already made. Servers are merged easily for lower costs and healthy population. And with the next expansions for 50 bucks the achievers are back again.
But that matters to me and alot of other people im sure. I want this to have the replayability of a P2P game or its going to end up as just a way improved version of GW1.
I really, and I mean really have no freaking idea how anyone can say GW2 has no progression. You progress the same as any other RPG type game; levels, skill tree, gear.
As for OP, you say gear is cosmetic? Gear has stats, and while the game doesn't revolve around grinding dungeons and mobs for certain gear, or grinding like a mofo to get the tier of gear you need/want for pvp you get a straight up equal opportunity to fight a fair match against everyone else.
There is still that special gear and those special items out there you can get by grinding points, karma gear, and whatever the pvp point system is.
The most confusing thing the OP says is the game us fun, but is logging in to have fun enough? Bwahaha, wtf? I'm pretty sure we all play video games to entertain ourselves and have fun, right?
So if you are having fun, what else matters? PFfssahhhthhs, unlike many other mmo's where the "real fun starts at level cap". OR, "I just need to get this last set of gear and I'll be good to go". Lawl.....fuckin chump.
+1
srry i had to do it :P
+2
The only "progression" GW2 has removed from older MMO's is raiding, and for good reason. Progression raiding has always been made of a small minute community (though very vocal and influential, I used to be one) and splits the community into those who get to see content and those who don't. WoW addressed this issue cleverily with LFR's, but GW2 is built around working together and experiencing the PvE content of the game with the community. Other than that, the above poster naided it.....GW2 has a shitload of progression, you have to be blind to miss it.
Originally posted by Chrisbox My mind is telling me that the progression and "endgame" will cause an exodus, but I REALLLLLY hope not. I want this game to last a very long time, but we wont know until we have it and see high level content.
On the other hand, Exodus doesnt matter. In the B2P model, the money is already made. Servers are merged easily for lower costs and healthy population. And with the next expansions for 50 bucks the achievers are back again.
But that matters to me and alot of other people im sure. I want this to have the replayability of a P2P game or its going to end up as just a way improved version of GW1.
Depends on how you define replayability. What makes a game replayable is different for everyone. For me, I can't stand leveling more than 1 character in most MMOs. Even getting to level cap is troubling because it's so boring. However, when I'm playing GW2 I forget about levels altogether, and just play the game. And even when I played through the human starting zone on multiple characters (different professions), I had a different experience every single time. While there were some event that I ran into on every single character, there were some events that I would experience on one character and never experience in on another.
Arguably they put the raiding out in the open, at least that's what Orr seems like on top of some of the other bosses out there. I think some people want a static "end". So be it but I don't. For my time spent I'd like something a little spicier and less predictable.
Comments
Since ANet is gearing up for eSports regarding sPvP I'm pretty sure they want characters to look more generic or at least like one another.
Additionally, sPvP from a lore standpoint is that you are engaging in a battle that already took place (or in the future). That's why it's in the Mists. As such you are fighting for a particular army and as such would be wearing similar attire.
Lastly ANet would have to program a temporary override on your gear's color scheme while your in there to maintain red and blue teams. Even then colors apply in different hues.
I hear where you are coming from but I imagine they probably will not change it.
Don't think they've ever released actual concurrent player numbers, however based on pure observation and estimation by the number of people around and instances of major cities in each of the servers, the retention rate is definitely way more than 10% after a few months in, even a few years in. I'm fairly certain the main thing that drove people away from the original game wasn't cosmetic progression at end-game. Also bear in mind that cosmetic progression wasn't the only endgame activity in GW1, nor will it be the only activity in GW2, hence the ones not interested by cosmetic gear still have other things they can do.
My point was that you can't just dismiss cosmetic progression as valid endgame content, because we can already see it being successful in both GW1, and loads of other games.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
I have read it
I would love that too but as it is now we won't have it.
Just wanted to say that for me I can live with that because all will be starting equal gear-wise in there. If there was a way to bring the look of your PVE gear in sPVP and get same stats as usuall that would be awesome but we will not see that at launch I think (not 100% sure).
That aside it is a good idea and would make grinding for that cosmetic piece even more worth for lot of players.
On the other hand, Exodus doesnt matter. In the B2P model, the money is already made. Servers are merged easily for lower costs and healthy population. And with the next expansions for 50 bucks the achievers are back again.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
You mean TOR, TSW, Diablo 3, etc fanboys were proven to consist of idiots? Yeah, that sounds about right.
I'm a sceptic and would love to be proven wrong after about two months after relase (after the honeymoon period is over)
+1
srry i had to do it :P
sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me
Can you give me names of those other games? BTW there aren't many players left in GW1 and their numbers would be even lower if there was no HoM and rewards for GW2. It only proves that a very small minority likes that kind of endgame.
my review of GW2
Team Fortress 2 and it's hats. There are no stats for hats (save for "set" hats that were introduced nearly 1yr after plain hats). But people still go ga-ga over those hats. Trust me, ##'s games are stupid...but playing dress up with the gear that makes you look super bad-ass is where it's at.
It isn't an MMO tho. People also played counter-strike which had no rewards at all. FPSs are different.
my review of GW2
how so? people played because PVP is fun. If an MMO can do the same why would people not stick around just to enjoy PVP as they do in FPS?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
There are differences between the item quality ranks of level 80 gear, and it isn't all just cosmetic. The difference between level 80 Rare and Exotic item can be seen below:
http://i.imgur.com/QKpks.jpg
But how many times will something like that lure them back in?
If someone gets bored after a couple months and leaves GW2 to play something else and then later returns for an expansion only to be bored even faster will he be back for the next expansion?
Active server population is going to matter a lot in GW2. And server merges are the Death Knell to MMOs.
Also WvW only works if there is a healthy population on all servers. If the server populations start dropping Anet will have to merge asap or they risk losing players even faster.
my review of GW2
Here's the thing, since it's a one time purchase, I'm assuming many will treat it like a single player game. You play until you no longer have fun, then you go do something else.
Just look at all the sequels that are extremely successful for single player games.
Server merges are the usually the sign of sub-based MMO not doing well. However, GW2 is B2P I'd consider it a natural part of the cycle. Put out a game/expansion -> Huge influx of players -> High populations for a couple months -> People start leaving -> cycle repeats.
People will naturally stop coming back as you are talking about a cycle that takes place on the timescale of years, so people get distracting, they have stuff come up in their lives, etc. But there will also always be new people starting. Even in GW1, whenever I log in I can still find new players despite the fact that an expansion hasn't been put out since 2007. It's actually the same with WoW. Blizzard puts out a new expansion -> people come back in droves -> high populations for a while -> people leave.
However, remember that Anet also often releases new content between each expansion. Look at what they are doing with GW:Beyond right now. And then Sorrows Furnace in prophecies days.
Actually there are A LOT of people left in GW1. Every time I go to a major city, there's always around 5-6 districts. And most towns/outposts have many people in them, except for those that are really far out of the way. GW1 has a very good sized population still. And even among those that don't play regularly anymore, many still log in every couple months or so to see what's changed. This was the benefit of ArenaNet's business model. We could always log back in in a couple months and see how old guild mates are doing, or how some old friends are doing. You can do some PvP, or vanquish with them, and then just move on. No need to break out the credit card and resub.
Also remember, GW1 population has gone down because Anet has not put out an expansion or campaign in 5 years (can't believe it's already been that long). While they are putting out content in GW:Beyond, it's not a new campaign or expansion. So you have to think the lack of a new continent to explore would be a contributing factor in the decline of GW1 population.
But that matters to me and alot of other people im sure. I want this to have the replayability of a P2P game or its going to end up as just a way improved version of GW1.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
+2
The only "progression" GW2 has removed from older MMO's is raiding, and for good reason. Progression raiding has always been made of a small minute community (though very vocal and influential, I used to be one) and splits the community into those who get to see content and those who don't. WoW addressed this issue cleverily with LFR's, but GW2 is built around working together and experiencing the PvE content of the game with the community. Other than that, the above poster naided it.....GW2 has a shitload of progression, you have to be blind to miss it.
Depends on how you define replayability. What makes a game replayable is different for everyone. For me, I can't stand leveling more than 1 character in most MMOs. Even getting to level cap is troubling because it's so boring. However, when I'm playing GW2 I forget about levels altogether, and just play the game. And even when I played through the human starting zone on multiple characters (different professions), I had a different experience every single time. While there were some event that I ran into on every single character, there were some events that I would experience on one character and never experience in on another.