I love the original Star Wars movies - and not entirely because of nostalgia. That, alone, makes me like SWtOR more than it probably deserves.
However, it's not quite as WoW-clonish as people want it to be. Oh, for sure, the entire skeleton of the design is almost pure WoW - and it's not hard to detect the ignorant touch of the investors on the game. But it really does have some neat stand-out features.
The positives
Most obviously is the cinematic/cutscene approach to quest/story delivery. I think it works well for the main story for the classes - well, actually, it works REALLY well for that. However, it's more or less a detriment to the ULTRA generic and pointless sidequests. If you actually listen to the dialogue for the sidequests - the process becomes even MORE of a grind than in other themeparks, because the quests are so very obviously meant to simply extend your playtime. They're NOT epic quests with intriguing dialogue. Well, not true, many of the sidequests are actually interesting and decent in terms of character and story - but the actual quests themselves are simply so hollow and so boring that you can't immerse yourself without falling asleep.
So, you could just skip the cutscenes with spacebar? Yes, you can - and oh my, did I ever. But you tend to feel awkward doing it - because you know how much story is supposed to be contained in those quests - and it ends up feeling like you're skipping the meat of the game - and you are.
That's probably the biggest problem with the game, because they must have spent SO much money getting those quests in place fully voiced. Instead, they should have made all sidequests more interesting and just had the NPCs speak a few lines - as they do in all the other themeparks. Then, they should have EXPANDED the main class storylines.
Also, a HUGE problem with the main class storylines - is that you're forced to level up doing something OTHER than participating in the main story. You're constantly required to be at a certain level - and you can't be at that level just doing your story. This means that you'll never get a good flow for your story - and you'll almost inevitably forget what you were doing - and that whole "cinematic" rollercoaster thing that they're going for falls flat on its face.
That's not an easy problem to solve - but I really think they should have delayed most of the story for the later levels. The first 10 levels are fine - and are great for setting the stage. But it doesn't work well after that. So, they should have considered closing off the main story line until around level 25-35. Yes, a very long time to wait - but at least you'd have a much better flow and immersion when finally starting it. I don't know - but I do know it doesn't work as intended as it is.
Beyond that - the game has companions that are actual people with personalities. These are not insignificant and though they don't feel like KotOR companions - they really DO make a difference and they add a small but not insignificant layer to PvE. I think it's a significant addition. That's not a WoW clone thing.
Another smaller thing is the gear system. You might say it's needlessly complex - but I actually really like that you can customize your gear both in terms of stats but appearance. Pretty much all other games of the genre just let you replace the look of gear - but they don't allow customization of stats. That IS pretty neat.
The Space combat... Well, in terms of what potentially could have been - it's absolutely crap. But in terms of the alternative being nothing at all - I think Space combat is pretty fun for a while - and it spices up the levelling process a bit. Naturally, the game should simply have freeform 3D space combat and not this horrid excuse for it - but still. Also, I really like upgrading my ship - though it should have been vastly expanded.
Then... We have the conversation system when playing in groups. Now, it may seem a small thing - but I LOVE it. It's one of the very few innovations in the game - and it works really well when you're playing with a group of friends. Playing with a bunch of strangers in a hurry to get through a flashpoint? Not so much. But these games are always best with friends - and I think having everyone participate in the conversations is great.
The Warzones are not bad at all, either. Now, the engine is absolutely crap - but they've actually tuned it now. I can have 100% smooth performance in ALL the WZs. That's new for me, and the PvP is actually pretty fun. The combat system is not as good as WoW (sorry, but WoW is the best MMO in the world for combat responsiveness and feel) - but it's getting closer. The worst problem is a lack of audio feedback. Your abilities look cool - but you can't HEAR them during the hectic chaos of PvP - and that's a huge problem. You're constantly wondering if your ability actually triggered or whatever the reason might be if it didn't. But, beyond that, I find PvP among the most fun.
Now - that's it for positives.
The negatives:
Endgame. It's the same pointless grindy bullshit that WoW pulled. Where's the open world PvP? Where's Ilum? Where's my Star Wars space game? Where????
The questiing - I already mentioned the sidequests above. But let me re-iterate, the sidequests are BORING. I really have no idea who actually designed the quests and what you're required to do - but you need to torture them with Sith lightning.
The Hero Engine. Yeah, we all know about this. But by god, was it a poor choice. You can't have more than 20 people doing combat before it's totally bogged down. In a MASSIVELY multiplayer game! Really? What the hell?
The travelling. Oh my, is this ever so very boring. I actually LIKE that the planets are huge - but I HATE that they expect me to manually travel back and forth quests that are ALSO very boring. They REALLY need to do something about this. Especially because of my next problem.
The planets themselves. They're so barren and so lifeless. Where are the ambient sounds? Where is the weather? Everything feels dead. You invest 200+ million dollars and THIS was your idea of immersive Star Wars settings? I just can't understand who this was green-lit. Do you remember KotOR? Remember Kashyyyk? Stuff like that was fantastic back in 2004 (or whenever) - and SWtOR feels DEAD.
Exploration. Yeah, there's no reason for it - and I'm not talking about those stupid Holocron cubes. I mean, the planets are dull - and there's a profound lack of unique and immersive locations upon them. Once you arrive at a planet - you can spend 5 minutes and you've basically seen all the visual variety you're going to see. What a waste.
Combat. The lack of auto-attack combined with 1.5 sec GCD. Ok, so you made the game "exciting" by removing auto-attack. That's cool, in theory. However, you also went and made almost ALL abilities share a 1.5 second global cooldown. This means that instead of doing damage with your auto-attack - you're CONSTANTLY waiting for your abilities to cool down - so you can actually do combat. It just feels bad. You should have made it 1 second - and it might have worked. In fact, I think it would - because that's about where the feel gets right.
----
Well, I could go on (yeah) - but I think that will suffice for now.
I like the game, but it became boring really quick. In my last weeks, I only did the PvP dailies and sometimes some more bgs. The item farming in instances became boring even faster, I quit that early. When TSW released, I canceled my SWTOR-sub, even if I never had the intention to play TSW.
Before SWTOR, I played RIft and I canceled my Rift-sub for SWTOR. The newer MMOS can't hold me long, something is wrong with them. I mean, I played EQ2 for many years...
But I feel this way because it seems like SWTOR is the culmination of everything I have been arguing against on these forums for years. I have always said that games that simply try to clone WoW and then add a "gimmick," just don't work. You can see evidence of this in the massive drop in subscriptions of game's like WAR (gimmick = PvP focus) and Rift (gimmick = flexible class system). I feel like these games, being clones, are never really as good as the original (WoW), and their gimmick, while fun, is just not enough to make them preferable to WoW.
So along comes SWToR, and it is one of the biggest budget games to date, it has a very respectable developer behind it, and it boasts one of the most popular IPs in the world. And yet, it used the "WoW + gimmick" design, its gimmick was a single player esque story. It seems like even fans admit that, in exception of the story stuff, the game is extremely similar to WoW. I felt like SWTOR was the ultimate test of my theory...if ANY game could succeed with the WoW + gimmick deisgn, this would be it.
So I will admit, I did feel a bit validated when it became clear that SWToR was not going to be successful. It not only gave more credence to my theory, it also lessened the chance of us getting more "WoW + gimmick" games in the future.
I do not mean to offend anyone who enjoys the game by showing my pleasure in the fact that the game basically failed. If you are enjoying the game, then more power to you. But for me, I'm happy that SWToR's failure may help usher in a new era of innovative MMORPGs.
This
SWTOR for me is pretty much KOTOR 3 with some obsolete MMO features.
I've been arguing for ages against this trend of making WOW clones, and I am sorry to say I am pleased that EA threw Millions of Dollars out of the windows producing this mediocre game.
I hope that now developers start being more immaginative and bold trying new things rather than copying something that can't be improved.
1) three words,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, repetitve,linear, boring...............................
nuff said
2 ) SWG was a much better representation of a Star Wars universe , even in its NGE/CU state , than ToR will have ever even hope to be.. " Orginally posted this on 1/28 and it got me a temp ban" Wonder Why"
3) Thank You for purchasing your EA product "You have been Bio-lated"
4) wait a second ...
They did innovate ..........Trade Kill Valor Farming......
5) Linear, repetive and boring , cant be fixed ..The core mechanics of this game are terrible , all they can do now is add more terrible...
Just takes some folks longer to realize it as the glitter and shine that they saw dulls..
.
6)Boring , Boring ... Spacebar ..Spacebar .. ok stfu now.... you annoy me now you whiny pos... spacebar .... SHUT UP!!!!
7)"orginal;t posted 10/4/11" The Bioware we all embraced no longer exists , the one we have now is just cheap EA bride ,and as soon as EA is done with them they will dismantle whats left like the many other Devs they have purchsed over the years , None of them have survived , why would anyone think Bioware will be differnet, they are the next vicitm of EA , probably will completly be dismantled in 2-4 years max. "They ruined Bioware, many wanted to dispute this ...but......."
8)Nothing different with this system at all..................Now the Rat is the quest giver... my that is impressive scripting.. Suddenly i feel Bio-lated...............
And people will have this on farm in 24 hours and bored with it in 72
9)Not wishful thinking at all, the only wisful thinking i may have , is that EA had never purchased BIoware and turned them into just another Craptastic Console Pumping Game Pimp,the rest is only the truth EA has been devouring dev teams since the 80s none have survived there influence , so i dont expext BW to , its only the truth up to you if ya wanna subscribe to it.... "They destroyed Bioware like i said.. .. "
Origianl post 1/6/11
10)Thats great but it wont retain subs .
Altho i will most likely try this game , i am hoping that as development rolls on that some serious changes are made ,the direction that Bioware is taking this game is not indicitive of a traditional MMO , the more i read the more it sounds like a MSORPG not an MMO, posssibly further testing will bring some changes..
From PC GAmer who recently got to play the current build "SWToR plays more like DA than it does WoW" fill in the Wow with any current mmo ... A companion pet system for everyone troubles me , from Bioware " The game can be completed without any interaction with another player" Huhhhhh!!
I really like the SW ip and want to see this game succeed BUT , when i read stuff like this from a recent interview with there devs at E3 it makes me cringe...
The Flash Point scene was a private, closed off area for only you and someone you brought along from the looks of it. no other players, so it is safe to assume this was a single player area. We saw some people on Hutta, but they were just going about their normal business.
As the devs told us, the majority of the game can be done without a single bit of help from another player. They said that the main appeal of MMOs is the experience single player with the option of being with other players. They confirmed that names, chat, and so on could all be turned off or ignored if you really, really wanted absolutely nothing to do with other people.
Names: Naming filters have been confirmed. No numbers, special characters, or Star Wars names. They emphasized the strictness of this system, as they seemed to agree on the assumption it could be immersion, if not game breaking.
If they want to make KOTOR 3 thats great but dont rap it up with optional coop play and slap a monthly sub on it..
When every lvl 30 (insert class) is running around in the same exact gear and none needs any help to aquire anything... blehhh
There will be no sense of community , no need for community
And if this pans out the way it is going ........LMAO there will be no point to there erhmmmm "MMO" either
Well here are some of my reasons from other threads... But opinions here can getyou banned
"Its only the Truth up to you if ya wanna subscribe to it"
I think the options in the question are two extreme. I don't hate SWTOR, I just find it lackluster. Here's why:
1. The combat is slow, especially in comparison to its peers.
2. The worlds feel closed and claustrophobic.
3. Tired of the same old questing system.
That's really it in a nutshell. I like the setting, I like the story, and the game is decently well done. I just don't think it should be an MMO. I believe it should have been a co-op RPG similar to Mass Effect 3. It can't hold a candle to TSW and it certainly, for me, cannot even begin to compete with Guild Wars 2. The game gives me no reason to play it over anything else. In short, it's an insignificant game. I am sad I bought it, but I bought it for a long time friend.
I can comment to this. There are a few things I love and many I hate about this game. I'll list my loves first.
1) visual change from alignment
2) limited physics...blowback, explosive objects, etc.
3) scenery/environment
4) sound
5) some of the specials are very fun to use.
6) can be truly evil if you want to be.
Now, the main things I hate
1) gear-centric
2) lack of customization options across the game
3) no housing, even in personal starship
4) poor crafting system
5) horrible armor design combined with lack of color and appearance options.
6) game balanced to require companion use
7) too much like WoW
8) space station transitions
9) starships based on class choice
10) cartoony look to characters
11) linear design of worlds
12) boring and cheap design to space combat (battlefront would have best IMO), lake of turret play for group members.
13) limited physics (yes, I listed this as a love...hate the fact it is so limited).
14) clunky combat, no autoattack, wierd auto targeting when in combat
and finally the arrogance of the developers during development. They ignored KotOR, SWTFU, SWG and Battlefront fans and instead listened to hardcore WoW players. That choice cut the games legs out from underneath it even before launch. It never had a chance.
The story thing was interesting until you hit 50 the first time, but the rest was a serious grind. The introduction of daily/weekly quests killed it for me. I hated that in WoW and I hate it in SWTOR, planning a 4 month cycle of grinding the same quests everyday to get a set of gear is NOT content. The only thing I hated more than that was SWG's retarded harvesting (it was like coming home from work to another job).
And I hated the fact that once you hit 50, pvp became a endless cycle of being a punching bag for all until you could get enough resiliance gear to do the same to other. I hated wow for that bullcrap made up stat as well.
I wanted this game to be the one, the run to 50 was good, as was the flashpoints and the crafting via companions, but the endless end game token grind killed it dead for me.
The story thing was interesting until you hit 50 the first time, but the rest was a serious grind. The introduction of daily/weekly quests killed it for me. I hated that in WoW and I hate it in SWTOR, planning a 4 month cycle of grinding the same quests everyday to get a set of gear is NOT content. The only thing I hated more than that was SWG's retarded harvesting (it was like coming home from work to another job).
I wanted this game to be the one, the run to 50 was good, as was the flashpoints and the crafting via companions, but the endless end game token grind killed it dead for me.
I can understand and respect that you felt harvesting was not the greatest in SWG. I would counter, however, that is is sandboxy elements like that that actually cause people to invest themselves in games, especially in a WoW dominated market.
I for one liked the fact that there was SO MUCH to do in SWG you were always busy. I felt like a part of the world in that game prior to the CU/NGE. It was the games horrible bugs that hurt that title IMO.
TOR has almost no sandbox play. You do not feel like a part of the world IMO. This is the games biggest flaw.
I'll list them in no particular order why I hate the game.
Its a WoW clone with Biowares story. I dont mind the story but I quit WoW cause I got bored, no sense in trying to remake the same game over and over...looking at you LotRO, Rift, WAR, AION, Tera or any other game released since 2004.
The developers couldnt implement and code MMO features in any fashion which could be consdered reasonable.
Missing features that even most F2P MMO's release with.
Combat system identical to WoW.....If any game screams innovative combat and UI then this owuld of been.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
To me, I took my time the first couple of toons, saw the sights, lvled the favor up on all my companions, tried to do all the quests on all the planets, and I found the game very engaging to 50. Then the uber grind kicked in and all the things I liked about the game went right out the window.
WIth SWG, I found that from day 1 the whole thing was a damn grind. I played for about 3 yrs, holo ground a jedi and tried to love that game, but by the time I left, I absolutly hated it. Hated the empty player cities that I searched endlesly through to try and find a vendor that was open and not just abandoned, hated the screwed up, buggy content (what little there was in game, outside of sandbox play), and I really hated the endless harvesting.
I understand that lots of people loved all these things, but I did not.
Well I have to say it is a love hate thing for me.
When SWTOR first came out I was a huge defender. Still was a 2 months in despite, nothing I reported in beta got fixed. From graphics to animations, to lack of character creation.
I got 4 toons to 50, yes that's right you have to love this game to do that to your self. Then one day our guild went poof. All 47 of us. The guild leader went to another server since there as not enough folks to play with, an half the folks we had would not show up on a regular basis for a raid. None of us knew what happened, all the officers all but disappeared.
Then the boredom set in, running daily after daily now on 4 toons each day it was enough to pull your hair out. It Is at that point that I released hey in 3 months time I got 4 alts to 50, it took me 6.5 years to get that many to 90 in eq2. So I started realized exactly how thin the game was. How so many folks had quit playing, how there was no life to the planets. No night and day mode, and I hated running space star fox on the rails.
I finally came to it on my own why I was so discontent, and why my other guild mates had been discontent. The guild vanished before the server moves/merges or whatever you want to call them. I logged in 5 times since that merge and ran on daily tried the group finder and logged back off.
I hate the fact we were all lied too, 500 planets yea right. I hate the fact the game is so shallow, we should have had more for 5 years.
I keep hearing how other folks love this game, see what some of them post only to know well they are not playing it either to say some of those things.
This all reminds me of how things went down with the NGE, and how only the very rabid fan-boy held on because in the end it was star wars.
Lastly I hate that the took my beloved star wars and turned into mush, it deserves better.
There that's it in a nutshell. Take it for what it is. Hate it or love it that is the way I see it and nobody can change my mind.
Hopefully those who stayed on can find some enjoyment before the free to play crowd gets there and for the server that I was on they will not notice a thing, due to how fractured the community is on that server.
I will leave my feelings about EA/Bioware out of it...
I don't love or hate the game. That was the issue. The game was so uninspired that it invoked no emotion in me at all. I am a life long Star Wars fan. Return of the Jedi is the fist movie I ever remember seeing in the theater. I can remember like it was yesterday. SWTOR invoked none of these Star Wars feelings. From the minute I started the game it did not feel like Star Wars to me. It was a plastic lifeless world. I played for a little while, however I got to the point where I never wanted to log in to the game again lol. There was nothing really original about it, except that it had a shit ton of voice overs and you could solo everything (sans flashpoints, etc) with the companions. I did enjoy the some of the class stories, but nothing really stood out and in fact after this time I can't even remember any details about them.
The game was just a big 'meh' to me...so disappointing. An opportunity squandered...probably never see another MMO based on the Star Wars IP now, thanks Bioware. Maybe someday they will get it right with online Star Wars. There is a very slim chance I may check out the f2p version...but I am not sure if it's worth the time downloading it (isn't it like 30gb?) or with the HDD space...
To me, I took my time the first couple of toons, saw the sights, lvled the favor up on all my companions, tried to do all the quests on all the planets, and I found the game very engaging to 50. Then the uber grind kicked in and all the things I liked about the game went right out the window.
WIth SWG, I found that from day 1 the whole thing was a damn grind. I played for about 3 yrs, holo ground a jedi and tried to love that game, but by the time I left, I absolutly hated it. Hated the empty player cities that I searched endlesly through to try and find a vendor that was open and not just abandoned, hated the screwed up, buggy content (what little there was in game, outside of sandbox play), and I really hated the endless harvesting.
I understand that lots of people loved all these things, but I did not.
And thats fair I think. SWG was TOO sandbox, and IMO a pure sandbox or themepark game will have problems. Eve and Second Life seem to be the only sandbox successes in general, but of course they have unique features.
How can you make a starwars game with ships that ugly? Oh, and CoH is more fun
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy. ______________________________ "This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
I will leave my feelings about EA/Bioware out of it...
.
Actually they are the reason for my 'strong dislike'. SW was fun for a bit, flawed but an ok play it once or twice game. EA however are egregious, they are arrogant, 'spin' things in a way that borders on out an out lieing and treat there customers with complete contempt.
Lifeless and Static - The environments were all so sterile, large and empty. Take a look at the Hutt casino for example. That should have been a hive of activity. Also the npc's had seemingly been hit by freeze rays, the biggest example being the outside of Tython Temple. Mix that with a lack of environment sounds and it's all so very dull.
Linear - It was all a straight line path from hub to hub with no choice of branching off elsewhere. Lots of corridors and invisible walls gave the main game as much freedom as the space game.
Poor stories - A lot of quest cutscenes were basically the wall of text spoken to you. The worst I remember was with the Sith to go and scan a bunch of npc's. Also the class quests were quite poor, like when my Smuggler became nothing more than a treasure hunter, I quit not long after.
Poor Quests - All the quests were little more than go there and click a glowing object. If that wasn't bad enough you had to fight through clusters of mobs to get to the glowy and then fight the exact same respawns on the way back.
These and many other minor annoyances turned me away from the game, certainly not the fact of the subscription model.
I will leave my feelings about EA/Bioware out of it...
.
Actually they are the reason for my 'strong dislike'. SW was fun for a bit, flawed but an ok play it once or twice game. EA however are egregious, they are arrogant, 'spin' things in a way that borders on out an out lieing and treat there customers with complete contempt.
yea i thnk its impossible to seperate the two at this point..
1: classes strongly influenced by other titles notably WoW
2: lack of required immersive qualities to at least seem like it's a real place you're standing in (critters, bugs, etc etc.)
3: every mission required you stand there and talk to someone for five minutes before and after you did the mission, no realism in that they had holo communicators people couldn't use them for regular missions? Do i really need to talk to you for ten minutes about why you want me to kill ten womprats?
4: subscription model
5: end game became lobby game standing around waiting for groups to form
6: no duo/trio content for smaller groups end game
7: gear treadmill and cookie cutter builds so the elitest minority could control your gameplay
8: no housing
9: mounts extremely expensive
10: load screen hell once in space
11: disliked that the reason people still paid this company for such a poor product especially after launch was only due to the IP, Star Wars, so EA/BW in the future won't have learned a single thing and will most likely come out with another such title in the future and do the same thing all over again
Never played it, just watch livestreams of beta and release, but these were the 4 biggest turn offs I saw:
1. They should've stuck with the d20/D&D ruleset they had in KoToR. It was fun, had decent variety in how you could build your character, and had more depth than what they went with. Combat potentially could've been a little more interesting had they gone with it.
2. The majority of the game is soloable. I understand the need for solo content in a game, but I don't play MMO's, which have dumbed down mechanics compared to SP games, just so I can run around by myself steamrolling through everything. It makes putting a group together/playing with friends pointless and boring.
3. Linear worlds. Just lame in this day and age. I don't know why modern games continue to funnel players into small occasionally branching tunnels of terrain. Make it open, add some interesting places/dungeons/challenges/secrets for players and groups to go explore and find.
4. Story-oriented/cutscenes. Again, not an MMO's major strength. I would sooner play a visual novel or single player game if I wanted a good story oriented experience. Still, this probably wouldn't be a particularly big issue for me if the one or two of the other three issues didn't exist.
The game play is just too linear and feels like a lobby based single player RPG.. The open world game play feels empty, The end game is all about instanced gear grind (boring like WoW).. Replayabilty with alts was just as bad as Rift.. And the company made me feel like a "number" and not a customer..
Comments
You asked, so here's my LONG reply
I don't hate or love it.
I love the original Star Wars movies - and not entirely because of nostalgia. That, alone, makes me like SWtOR more than it probably deserves.
However, it's not quite as WoW-clonish as people want it to be. Oh, for sure, the entire skeleton of the design is almost pure WoW - and it's not hard to detect the ignorant touch of the investors on the game. But it really does have some neat stand-out features.
The positives
Most obviously is the cinematic/cutscene approach to quest/story delivery. I think it works well for the main story for the classes - well, actually, it works REALLY well for that. However, it's more or less a detriment to the ULTRA generic and pointless sidequests. If you actually listen to the dialogue for the sidequests - the process becomes even MORE of a grind than in other themeparks, because the quests are so very obviously meant to simply extend your playtime. They're NOT epic quests with intriguing dialogue. Well, not true, many of the sidequests are actually interesting and decent in terms of character and story - but the actual quests themselves are simply so hollow and so boring that you can't immerse yourself without falling asleep.
So, you could just skip the cutscenes with spacebar? Yes, you can - and oh my, did I ever. But you tend to feel awkward doing it - because you know how much story is supposed to be contained in those quests - and it ends up feeling like you're skipping the meat of the game - and you are.
That's probably the biggest problem with the game, because they must have spent SO much money getting those quests in place fully voiced. Instead, they should have made all sidequests more interesting and just had the NPCs speak a few lines - as they do in all the other themeparks. Then, they should have EXPANDED the main class storylines.
Also, a HUGE problem with the main class storylines - is that you're forced to level up doing something OTHER than participating in the main story. You're constantly required to be at a certain level - and you can't be at that level just doing your story. This means that you'll never get a good flow for your story - and you'll almost inevitably forget what you were doing - and that whole "cinematic" rollercoaster thing that they're going for falls flat on its face.
That's not an easy problem to solve - but I really think they should have delayed most of the story for the later levels. The first 10 levels are fine - and are great for setting the stage. But it doesn't work well after that. So, they should have considered closing off the main story line until around level 25-35. Yes, a very long time to wait - but at least you'd have a much better flow and immersion when finally starting it. I don't know - but I do know it doesn't work as intended as it is.
Beyond that - the game has companions that are actual people with personalities. These are not insignificant and though they don't feel like KotOR companions - they really DO make a difference and they add a small but not insignificant layer to PvE. I think it's a significant addition. That's not a WoW clone thing.
Another smaller thing is the gear system. You might say it's needlessly complex - but I actually really like that you can customize your gear both in terms of stats but appearance. Pretty much all other games of the genre just let you replace the look of gear - but they don't allow customization of stats. That IS pretty neat.
The Space combat... Well, in terms of what potentially could have been - it's absolutely crap. But in terms of the alternative being nothing at all - I think Space combat is pretty fun for a while - and it spices up the levelling process a bit. Naturally, the game should simply have freeform 3D space combat and not this horrid excuse for it - but still. Also, I really like upgrading my ship - though it should have been vastly expanded.
Then... We have the conversation system when playing in groups. Now, it may seem a small thing - but I LOVE it. It's one of the very few innovations in the game - and it works really well when you're playing with a group of friends. Playing with a bunch of strangers in a hurry to get through a flashpoint? Not so much. But these games are always best with friends - and I think having everyone participate in the conversations is great.
The Warzones are not bad at all, either. Now, the engine is absolutely crap - but they've actually tuned it now. I can have 100% smooth performance in ALL the WZs. That's new for me, and the PvP is actually pretty fun. The combat system is not as good as WoW (sorry, but WoW is the best MMO in the world for combat responsiveness and feel) - but it's getting closer. The worst problem is a lack of audio feedback. Your abilities look cool - but you can't HEAR them during the hectic chaos of PvP - and that's a huge problem. You're constantly wondering if your ability actually triggered or whatever the reason might be if it didn't. But, beyond that, I find PvP among the most fun.
Now - that's it for positives.
The negatives:
Endgame. It's the same pointless grindy bullshit that WoW pulled. Where's the open world PvP? Where's Ilum? Where's my Star Wars space game? Where????
The questiing - I already mentioned the sidequests above. But let me re-iterate, the sidequests are BORING. I really have no idea who actually designed the quests and what you're required to do - but you need to torture them with Sith lightning.
The Hero Engine. Yeah, we all know about this. But by god, was it a poor choice. You can't have more than 20 people doing combat before it's totally bogged down. In a MASSIVELY multiplayer game! Really? What the hell?
The travelling. Oh my, is this ever so very boring. I actually LIKE that the planets are huge - but I HATE that they expect me to manually travel back and forth quests that are ALSO very boring. They REALLY need to do something about this. Especially because of my next problem.
The planets themselves. They're so barren and so lifeless. Where are the ambient sounds? Where is the weather? Everything feels dead. You invest 200+ million dollars and THIS was your idea of immersive Star Wars settings? I just can't understand who this was green-lit. Do you remember KotOR? Remember Kashyyyk? Stuff like that was fantastic back in 2004 (or whenever) - and SWtOR feels DEAD.
Exploration. Yeah, there's no reason for it - and I'm not talking about those stupid Holocron cubes. I mean, the planets are dull - and there's a profound lack of unique and immersive locations upon them. Once you arrive at a planet - you can spend 5 minutes and you've basically seen all the visual variety you're going to see. What a waste.
Combat. The lack of auto-attack combined with 1.5 sec GCD. Ok, so you made the game "exciting" by removing auto-attack. That's cool, in theory. However, you also went and made almost ALL abilities share a 1.5 second global cooldown. This means that instead of doing damage with your auto-attack - you're CONSTANTLY waiting for your abilities to cool down - so you can actually do combat. It just feels bad. You should have made it 1 second - and it might have worked. In fact, I think it would - because that's about where the feel gets right.
----
Well, I could go on (yeah) - but I think that will suffice for now.
hated -lack of polish at launch/slow pace of improvements. Bioware mis-used their beta test and did not begin listening to customers soon enough.
Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.
because I absolutely loathe Bioware's take on anything Star Wars and I could not be happier that swtor is finally going under
you better tell that to the half a mil that still play so they can look for a new game fast LOL
I like the game, but it became boring really quick. In my last weeks, I only did the PvP dailies and sometimes some more bgs. The item farming in instances became boring even faster, I quit that early. When TSW released, I canceled my SWTOR-sub, even if I never had the intention to play TSW.
Before SWTOR, I played RIft and I canceled my Rift-sub for SWTOR. The newer MMOS can't hold me long, something is wrong with them. I mean, I played EQ2 for many years...
This
SWTOR for me is pretty much KOTOR 3 with some obsolete MMO features.
I've been arguing for ages against this trend of making WOW clones, and I am sorry to say I am pleased that EA threw Millions of Dollars out of the windows producing this mediocre game.
I hope that now developers start being more immaginative and bold trying new things rather than copying something that can't be improved.
nuff said
2 ) SWG was a much better representation of a Star Wars universe , even in its NGE/CU state , than ToR will have ever even hope to be.. " Orginally posted this on 1/28 and it got me a temp ban" Wonder Why"
3) Thank You for purchasing your EA product "You have been Bio-lated"
4) wait a second ...
They did innovate ..........Trade Kill Valor Farming......
5) Linear, repetive and boring , cant be fixed ..The core mechanics of this game are terrible , all they can do now is add more terrible...
Just takes some folks longer to realize it as the glitter and shine that they saw dulls..
.
6)Boring , Boring ... Spacebar ..Spacebar .. ok stfu now.... you annoy me now you whiny pos... spacebar .... SHUT UP!!!!
7)"orginal;t posted 10/4/11" The Bioware we all embraced no longer exists , the one we have now is just cheap EA bride ,and as soon as EA is done with them they will dismantle whats left like the many other Devs they have purchsed over the years , None of them have survived , why would anyone think Bioware will be differnet, they are the next vicitm of EA , probably will completly be dismantled in 2-4 years max. "They ruined Bioware, many wanted to dispute this ...but......."
8)Nothing different with this system at all..................Now the Rat is the quest giver... my that is impressive scripting.. Suddenly i feel Bio-lated...............
And people will have this on farm in 24 hours and bored with it in 72
9)Not wishful thinking at all, the only wisful thinking i may have , is that EA had never purchased BIoware and turned them into just another Craptastic Console Pumping Game Pimp,the rest is only the truth EA has been devouring dev teams since the 80s none have survived there influence , so i dont expext BW to , its only the truth up to you if ya wanna subscribe to it.... "They destroyed Bioware like i said.. .. "
Origianl post 1/6/11
10)Thats great but it wont retain subs .
Altho i will most likely try this game , i am hoping that as development rolls on that some serious changes are made ,the direction that Bioware is taking this game is not indicitive of a traditional MMO , the more i read the more it sounds like a MSORPG not an MMO, posssibly further testing will bring some changes..
From PC GAmer who recently got to play the current build "SWToR plays more like DA than it does WoW" fill in the Wow with any current mmo ... A companion pet system for everyone troubles me , from Bioware " The game can be completed without any interaction with another player" Huhhhhh!!
I really like the SW ip and want to see this game succeed BUT , when i read stuff like this from a recent interview with there devs at E3 it makes me cringe...
The Flash Point scene was a private, closed off area for only you and someone you brought along from the looks of it. no other players, so it is safe to assume this was a single player area. We saw some people on Hutta, but they were just going about their normal business.
As the devs told us, the majority of the game can be done without a single bit of help from another player. They said that the main appeal of MMOs is the experience single player with the option of being with other players. They confirmed that names, chat, and so on could all be turned off or ignored if you really, really wanted absolutely nothing to do with other people.
Names:
Naming filters have been confirmed. No numbers, special characters, or Star Wars names. They emphasized the strictness of this system, as they seemed to agree on the assumption it could be immersion, if not game breaking.
If they want to make KOTOR 3 thats great but dont rap it up with optional coop play and slap a monthly sub on it..
When every lvl 30 (insert class) is running around in the same exact gear and none needs any help to aquire anything... blehhh
There will be no sense of community , no need for community
And if this pans out the way it is going ........LMAO there will be no point to there erhmmmm "MMO" either
Well here are some of my reasons from other threads... But opinions here can getyou banned
"Its only the Truth up to you if ya wanna subscribe to it"
I think the options in the question are two extreme. I don't hate SWTOR, I just find it lackluster. Here's why:
1. The combat is slow, especially in comparison to its peers.
2. The worlds feel closed and claustrophobic.
3. Tired of the same old questing system.
That's really it in a nutshell. I like the setting, I like the story, and the game is decently well done. I just don't think it should be an MMO. I believe it should have been a co-op RPG similar to Mass Effect 3. It can't hold a candle to TSW and it certainly, for me, cannot even begin to compete with Guild Wars 2. The game gives me no reason to play it over anything else. In short, it's an insignificant game. I am sad I bought it, but I bought it for a long time friend.
I can comment to this. There are a few things I love and many I hate about this game. I'll list my loves first.
1) visual change from alignment
2) limited physics...blowback, explosive objects, etc.
3) scenery/environment
4) sound
5) some of the specials are very fun to use.
6) can be truly evil if you want to be.
Now, the main things I hate
1) gear-centric
2) lack of customization options across the game
3) no housing, even in personal starship
4) poor crafting system
5) horrible armor design combined with lack of color and appearance options.
6) game balanced to require companion use
7) too much like WoW
8) space station transitions
9) starships based on class choice
10) cartoony look to characters
11) linear design of worlds
12) boring and cheap design to space combat (battlefront would have best IMO), lake of turret play for group members.
13) limited physics (yes, I listed this as a love...hate the fact it is so limited).
14) clunky combat, no autoattack, wierd auto targeting when in combat
and finally the arrogance of the developers during development. They ignored KotOR, SWTFU, SWG and Battlefront fans and instead listened to hardcore WoW players. That choice cut the games legs out from underneath it even before launch. It never had a chance.
The story thing was interesting until you hit 50 the first time, but the rest was a serious grind. The introduction of daily/weekly quests killed it for me. I hated that in WoW and I hate it in SWTOR, planning a 4 month cycle of grinding the same quests everyday to get a set of gear is NOT content. The only thing I hated more than that was SWG's retarded harvesting (it was like coming home from work to another job).
And I hated the fact that once you hit 50, pvp became a endless cycle of being a punching bag for all until you could get enough resiliance gear to do the same to other. I hated wow for that bullcrap made up stat as well.
I wanted this game to be the one, the run to 50 was good, as was the flashpoints and the crafting via companions, but the endless end game token grind killed it dead for me.
I can understand and respect that you felt harvesting was not the greatest in SWG. I would counter, however, that is is sandboxy elements like that that actually cause people to invest themselves in games, especially in a WoW dominated market.
I for one liked the fact that there was SO MUCH to do in SWG you were always busy. I felt like a part of the world in that game prior to the CU/NGE. It was the games horrible bugs that hurt that title IMO.
TOR has almost no sandbox play. You do not feel like a part of the world IMO. This is the games biggest flaw.
I'll list them in no particular order why I hate the game.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
To me, I took my time the first couple of toons, saw the sights, lvled the favor up on all my companions, tried to do all the quests on all the planets, and I found the game very engaging to 50. Then the uber grind kicked in and all the things I liked about the game went right out the window.
WIth SWG, I found that from day 1 the whole thing was a damn grind. I played for about 3 yrs, holo ground a jedi and tried to love that game, but by the time I left, I absolutly hated it. Hated the empty player cities that I searched endlesly through to try and find a vendor that was open and not just abandoned, hated the screwed up, buggy content (what little there was in game, outside of sandbox play), and I really hated the endless harvesting.
I understand that lots of people loved all these things, but I did not.
Well I have to say it is a love hate thing for me.
When SWTOR first came out I was a huge defender. Still was a 2 months in despite, nothing I reported in beta got fixed. From graphics to animations, to lack of character creation.
I got 4 toons to 50, yes that's right you have to love this game to do that to your self. Then one day our guild went poof. All 47 of us. The guild leader went to another server since there as not enough folks to play with, an half the folks we had would not show up on a regular basis for a raid. None of us knew what happened, all the officers all but disappeared.
Then the boredom set in, running daily after daily now on 4 toons each day it was enough to pull your hair out. It Is at that point that I released hey in 3 months time I got 4 alts to 50, it took me 6.5 years to get that many to 90 in eq2. So I started realized exactly how thin the game was. How so many folks had quit playing, how there was no life to the planets. No night and day mode, and I hated running space star fox on the rails.
I finally came to it on my own why I was so discontent, and why my other guild mates had been discontent. The guild vanished before the server moves/merges or whatever you want to call them. I logged in 5 times since that merge and ran on daily tried the group finder and logged back off.
I hate the fact we were all lied too, 500 planets yea right. I hate the fact the game is so shallow, we should have had more for 5 years.
I keep hearing how other folks love this game, see what some of them post only to know well they are not playing it either to say some of those things.
This all reminds me of how things went down with the NGE, and how only the very rabid fan-boy held on because in the end it was star wars.
Lastly I hate that the took my beloved star wars and turned into mush, it deserves better.
There that's it in a nutshell. Take it for what it is. Hate it or love it that is the way I see it and nobody can change my mind.
Hopefully those who stayed on can find some enjoyment before the free to play crowd gets there and for the server that I was on they will not notice a thing, due to how fractured the community is on that server.
I will leave my feelings about EA/Bioware out of it...
I don't love or hate the game. That was the issue. The game was so uninspired that it invoked no emotion in me at all. I am a life long Star Wars fan. Return of the Jedi is the fist movie I ever remember seeing in the theater. I can remember like it was yesterday. SWTOR invoked none of these Star Wars feelings. From the minute I started the game it did not feel like Star Wars to me. It was a plastic lifeless world. I played for a little while, however I got to the point where I never wanted to log in to the game again lol. There was nothing really original about it, except that it had a shit ton of voice overs and you could solo everything (sans flashpoints, etc) with the companions. I did enjoy the some of the class stories, but nothing really stood out and in fact after this time I can't even remember any details about them.
The game was just a big 'meh' to me...so disappointing. An opportunity squandered...probably never see another MMO based on the Star Wars IP now, thanks Bioware. Maybe someday they will get it right with online Star Wars. There is a very slim chance I may check out the f2p version...but I am not sure if it's worth the time downloading it (isn't it like 30gb?) or with the HDD space...
And thats fair I think. SWG was TOO sandbox, and IMO a pure sandbox or themepark game will have problems. Eve and Second Life seem to be the only sandbox successes in general, but of course they have unique features.
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy.
______________________________
"This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
Actually they are the reason for my 'strong dislike'. SW was fun for a bit, flawed but an ok play it once or twice game. EA however are egregious, they are arrogant, 'spin' things in a way that borders on out an out lieing and treat there customers with complete contempt.
Lifeless and Static - The environments were all so sterile, large and empty. Take a look at the Hutt casino for example. That should have been a hive of activity. Also the npc's had seemingly been hit by freeze rays, the biggest example being the outside of Tython Temple. Mix that with a lack of environment sounds and it's all so very dull.
Linear - It was all a straight line path from hub to hub with no choice of branching off elsewhere. Lots of corridors and invisible walls gave the main game as much freedom as the space game.
Poor stories - A lot of quest cutscenes were basically the wall of text spoken to you. The worst I remember was with the Sith to go and scan a bunch of npc's. Also the class quests were quite poor, like when my Smuggler became nothing more than a treasure hunter, I quit not long after.
Poor Quests - All the quests were little more than go there and click a glowing object. If that wasn't bad enough you had to fight through clusters of mobs to get to the glowy and then fight the exact same respawns on the way back.
These and many other minor annoyances turned me away from the game, certainly not the fact of the subscription model.
yea i thnk its impossible to seperate the two at this point..
Disliked it:
1: classes strongly influenced by other titles notably WoW
2: lack of required immersive qualities to at least seem like it's a real place you're standing in (critters, bugs, etc etc.)
3: every mission required you stand there and talk to someone for five minutes before and after you did the mission, no realism in that they had holo communicators people couldn't use them for regular missions? Do i really need to talk to you for ten minutes about why you want me to kill ten womprats?
4: subscription model
5: end game became lobby game standing around waiting for groups to form
6: no duo/trio content for smaller groups end game
7: gear treadmill and cookie cutter builds so the elitest minority could control your gameplay
8: no housing
9: mounts extremely expensive
10: load screen hell once in space
11: disliked that the reason people still paid this company for such a poor product especially after launch was only due to the IP, Star Wars, so EA/BW in the future won't have learned a single thing and will most likely come out with another such title in the future and do the same thing all over again
Never played it, just watch livestreams of beta and release, but these were the 4 biggest turn offs I saw:
1. They should've stuck with the d20/D&D ruleset they had in KoToR. It was fun, had decent variety in how you could build your character, and had more depth than what they went with. Combat potentially could've been a little more interesting had they gone with it.
2. The majority of the game is soloable. I understand the need for solo content in a game, but I don't play MMO's, which have dumbed down mechanics compared to SP games, just so I can run around by myself steamrolling through everything. It makes putting a group together/playing with friends pointless and boring.
3. Linear worlds. Just lame in this day and age. I don't know why modern games continue to funnel players into small occasionally branching tunnels of terrain. Make it open, add some interesting places/dungeons/challenges/secrets for players and groups to go explore and find.
4. Story-oriented/cutscenes. Again, not an MMO's major strength. I would sooner play a visual novel or single player game if I wanted a good story oriented experience. Still, this probably wouldn't be a particularly big issue for me if the one or two of the other three issues didn't exist.
Like:
Story, even if over the top for Force users, it's the best this game has to offer.
Sound: pew, pew, pew, whoosh, gotta love it.
Companions: work really well, even if it makes the game too solo-friendly to some peoples taste.
So-so:
Graphics, movement and combat: not much to see here. Nothing worth writing home about.
Dislike:
Very linear levelling experience.
Running in corridors.
Gear grind end-game, boring.
Limited replayability past the starter worlds. 2 toons to cap and you've seen most of what there is to see.
PvP is a joke.
Dead worlds.