I'd say the premise of this thread is a challenge to anyone who feels that the longevity of this game is questionable. This is something that no one can know for sure, hence the endless back and forth the OP attempted to answer. The question isn't so much what type of game do they have planned, the question is will it foster long term play? These types of questions will always result in an endless back and forth pre-release.
Nice list of videos, but I'd shy away from presenting such a collection as being the answer to the question above. Content is finite.
whats that have to do with my thread title the title was facetious the main question is what sets this game apart and I feel these videos show that. The game/endgame thing was just a poke at the constant threads we see on that question.. nowhere did I say ENDGAME PROOF INSIDE!
I was just going by your wording in the OP. It seemed you were presenting an answer to the endless round and round about endgame.
didn't say I presented an answer anywhere all I was trying to say was we can go around and around all day talking about things but I feel these videos detailing the things people are talking about says a lot more than the constant back and forth bitch fest that has taken over these forums.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Ok, so I watched the video in the list No Trinity?! to try and understand the design decisions around this better. This talks about GW2 having a new trinity between DPS, support and control, as opposed to the old trinity of DPS, tank, healer.
I am wondering if this video is out of date, because then I watched this one - a podcast from fans released very recently
Around the 21 minute mark there is a quote from a dev about how the combat works without the trinity - basically a lot more self-reliance, with occassional support play of an ally, it seems. This is then discussed, and refreshingly from the point of view that it is not better, going to sink all trinity games etc, but rather it is different and provides variety.
Then at the 35 minute they take a 5 man dps team into one of the games dungeons, and eventually triumph - to prove there is no need for the trinity within GW2. So I know this was designed to showcase the lack of need of the trinity, and so not necessarily particularly representative of group play in general, but there is the discussion as well, both at the 21 minute mark, and after this and at the end. Then there is the lack generally (from what I have seen) showcasing this new trinity etc.
So hence, is this new trinity relevant at all, or not?
I didn't start this fire though. When you hype a game by telling people "The whole game is end game." The turn around and say "We do have a end game." That endgame will be evaluated.
Your writing here isn't all that great, but it reads like you're saying that the two statements, "the whole game is end game," and "we do have end game" are mutually exclusive. As though this indicates some sort of "flip-flop" on ArenaNet's part; but doesn't the statement "we do have end game, the whole game is end game" make sense? In other words, there is stuff to do at level 80: the same stuff you'll have been doing the whole time. There's no sudden shift in how you play the game.I apologize if that isn't what you meant, but that's how I interpreted it.
To get to the heart of your question though, I'll pose one back to you. What is end game? Is it not simply whatever you can do in the game once you've reached the level cap? If so, then I suggest that GW2 has as much end game as any other MMO, if not more. First of all there's PvP, both instanced and open world, with the latter being likely the best since DAoC and the former a potential e-sport. If PvE is more your style, there are achievements, map completion, titles, and you can still grind to get better gear through dynamic events and dungeons, if that's your thing. Really the only thing that seems to be missing is raiding, and that, I'm guessing, is what this is really about.
Too often people make the mistake of confusing raids with end game when that is simply not accurate. Raids are not the only type of content that qualify as end game. Personally I don't even think they're a particularly good or interesting type of content and I'm glad to see them go. The barrier they put in place to anyone unwilling or unable to make a significant commitment to the game is bad design and bad for the community, and it's not like they're some amazing bastion of infinitely replayable content. You still end up grinding the same raid over and over again, so other than the demand on players to treat the game like it's a job I really don't see how it's very different than an appropriately challenging 5-man dungeon. They mainly serve as a method for content delivery and character progression, and as long as the game can provide those through other avenues there's really no argument to be made for there being no end game. You can certainly say that there's no raiding, and if that's what you love then unfortunately I think that just means this game is not for you. However I find it pretty disingenous that there are so many posts decrying the lack of end game as a whole and not just the lack of raiding. Just because there's no raiding doesn't mean the game has no hope of longevity: there are plenty of ways to play and improve your character without it.
TL;DR: End game can be much more than just raiding.
So me leaving off the "n" on "then" caused you confusion and made you have to interpret my post?
Of course end game is not all about raiding. I see endgame as progression, as ways to advance you character. I see stat, cosmetic, and ability progression as endgame, aswell as any activity that is different form what you were doing while you were leveling.
Feel free to comment Mack, but let's not turn this into our own personal discussion. The title of the thread has been changed. This topic is no longer relevant.
Nice work putting that together Aerowyn. Ok, so I watched the video in the list No Trinity?! to try and understand the design decisions around this better. This talks about GW2 having a new trinity between DPS, support and control, as opposed to the old trinity of DPS, tank, healer. I am wondering if this video is out of date, because then I watched this one - a podcast from fans released very recentlyhttp://www.gamebreaker.tv/video-game-shows/guild-wars-video/guildcast-guild-wars-show/trinity-terminated/Around the 21 minute mark there is a quote from a dev about how the combat works without the trinity - basically a lot more self-reliance, with occassional support play of an ally, it seems. This is then discussed, and refreshingly from the point of view that it is not better, going to sink all trinity games etc, but rather it is different and provides variety.Then at the 35 minute they take a 5 man dps team into one of the games dungeons, and eventually triumph - to prove there is no need for the trinity within GW2. So I know this was designed to showcase the lack of need of the trinity, and so not necessarily particularly representative of group play in general, but there is the discussion as well, both at the 21 minute mark, and after this and at the end. Then there is the lack generally (from what I have seen) showcasing this new trinity etc. So hence, is this new trinity relevant at all, or not?
gw2 has 3 roles like shown in the video. The best part is not only can every class be any of the roles you can even spec to be all 3 in a single fight depending on skill setup. Also as seen in other videos the mechanics of fights don't heavily rely on a single role being needed so groups that aren't spec'd for all 3 can still take on most of the games content if played right
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus So, can we get a sticky for this
I agree. Sticky this MMORPG.com staff!
I agree with this as well.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
So me leaving off the "n" on "then" caused you confusion and made you have to interpret my post?
Of course end game is not all about raiding. I see endgame as progression, as ways to advance you character. I see stat, cosmetic, and ability progression as endgame, aswell as any activity that is different form what you were doing while you were leveling.
Feel free to comment Mack, but let's not turn this into our own personal discussion. The title of the thread has been changed. This topic is no longer relevant.
GW2 has all of those. Stat progression is there level 80 white gear stats will be a good deal lower than a purple set the main difference is the gap between the two is not as huge as other games like warcraft. GW2 uses a similar system that TSW uses to customize gear with runes and sigils and such to improve your abilities which you should appreciate.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
So many threads asking the same questions over and over and over. Same back and forth from people going round and around and around. Many sandbox fans hating on the game only because it's a themepark. Many spreading false information of what the game is and what it's not. So I put together a list of videos I feel show off and explain some of the best aspects of this game and what it has to offer. ENJOY
Aerowyn, you have now become my official go-to person with regards to anything and everything GW2 :-)
So many threads asking the same questions over and over and over. Same back and forth from people going round and around and around. Many sandbox fans hating on the game only because it's a themepark. Many spreading false information of what the game is and what it's not. So I put together a list of videos I feel show off and explain some of the best aspects of this game and what it has to offer. ENJOY
Aerowyn, you have now become my official go-to person with regards to anything and everything GW2 :-)
YOU ROCK!!
most of the credit goes to the people who spent all that time putting those videos together I just picked through the sea of videos on youtube and found ones i thought would help people and make it easier to find information on the game:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
So many threads asking the same questions over and over and over. Same back and forth from people going round and around and around. Many sandbox fans hating on the game only because it's a themepark. Many spreading false information of what the game is and what it's not. So I put together a list of videos I feel show off and explain some of the best aspects of this game and what it has to offer. ENJOY
Aerowyn, you have now become my official go-to person with regards to anything and everything GW2 :-)
YOU ROCK!!
most of the credit goes to the people who spent all that time putting those videos together I just picked through the sea of videos on youtube and found ones i thought would help people and make it easier to find information on the game:)
Thanks for creating this nice collection of informative videos about GW2. I hope Arena Net will add some social activities in the game soon after launch. At the moment there is a lot of fun stuff to do, but not much that does not involve fighting/gathering/crafting to some extent. Housing is hopefully not too far away after launch. With a great composer such as Jeremy Soule, I look forward to more stuff involving music (i.e. a player-made music system like in LOTRO). Would you like to include the video about a certain underwater pipe organ in the puzzles section? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcUjwdJLQ78 - contains spoiler!) Looking forward to the stress test today.Only 2,5 hours to go :-)
Thanks for creating this nice collection of informative videos about GW2. I hope Arena Net will add some social activities in the game soon after launch. At the moment there is a lot of fun stuff to do, but not much that does not involve fighting/gathering/crafting to some extent. Housing is hopefully not too far away after launch. With a great composer such as Jeremy Soule, I look forward to more stuff involving music (i.e. a player-made music system like in LOTRO). Would you like to include the video about a certain underwater pipe organ in the puzzles section? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcUjwdJLQ78 - contains spoiler!) Looking forward to the stress test today.Only 2,5 hours to go :-)
The 30(was it 30?) social activities will be in at launch.
Like Keg brawl was one of them, and there are more just not in beta.
Not all activities will invole fighting.
Each capital city will have unique social activities.
I don't know if they count the "chess" thing in the Asura starting area as an activity.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I didn't start this fire though. When you hype a game by telling people "The whole game is end game." The turn around and say "We do have a end game." That endgame will be evaluated.
Your writing here isn't all that great, but it reads like you're saying that the two statements, "the whole game is end game," and "we do have end game" are mutually exclusive. As though this indicates some sort of "flip-flop" on ArenaNet's part; but doesn't the statement "we do have end game, the whole game is end game" make sense? In other words, there is stuff to do at level 80: the same stuff you'll have been doing the whole time. There's no sudden shift in how you play the game.I apologize if that isn't what you meant, but that's how I interpreted it.
To get to the heart of your question though, I'll pose one back to you. What is end game? Is it not simply whatever you can do in the game once you've reached the level cap? If so, then I suggest that GW2 has as much end game as any other MMO, if not more. First of all there's PvP, both instanced and open world, with the latter being likely the best since DAoC and the former a potential e-sport. If PvE is more your style, there are achievements, map completion, titles, and you can still grind to get better gear through dynamic events and dungeons, if that's your thing. Really the only thing that seems to be missing is raiding, and that, I'm guessing, is what this is really about.
Too often people make the mistake of confusing raids with end game when that is simply not accurate. Raids are not the only type of content that qualify as end game. Personally I don't even think they're a particularly good or interesting type of content and I'm glad to see them go. The barrier they put in place to anyone unwilling or unable to make a significant commitment to the game is bad design and bad for the community, and it's not like they're some amazing bastion of infinitely replayable content. You still end up grinding the same raid over and over again, so other than the demand on players to treat the game like it's a job I really don't see how it's very different than an appropriately challenging 5-man dungeon. They mainly serve as a method for content delivery and character progression, and as long as the game can provide those through other avenues there's really no argument to be made for there being no end game. You can certainly say that there's no raiding, and if that's what you love then unfortunately I think that just means this game is not for you. However I find it pretty disingenous that there are so many posts decrying the lack of end game as a whole and not just the lack of raiding. Just because there's no raiding doesn't mean the game has no hope of longevity: there are plenty of ways to play and improve your character without it.
TL;DR: End game can be much more than just raiding.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Comments
Everybody loves GW2. It's a very polarizing game.
You love to love it, you love to hate it, or you love to pronounce how decidedly neutral you are about it.
Even the laid back people are hardcore about how laid back they are.
LOL how true how true.
I have also noticed that the one that love to hate it. Love not to research before they type as well.
They do love to make aces outta U and me though ("assume" if you didn't reseach that)
A MMO is like life. It is something to cherish and enjoy upon in it journey. So why race to the end of it. In life at the end you die.
didn't say I presented an answer anywhere all I was trying to say was we can go around and around all day talking about things but I feel these videos detailing the things people are talking about says a lot more than the constant back and forth bitch fest that has taken over these forums.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/359874/Aerowyns-Video-Compilation-of-ALL-things-Guild-Wars-2.html
EQ2 fan sites
Nice work putting that together Aerowyn.
Ok, so I watched the video in the list No Trinity?! to try and understand the design decisions around this better. This talks about GW2 having a new trinity between DPS, support and control, as opposed to the old trinity of DPS, tank, healer.
I am wondering if this video is out of date, because then I watched this one - a podcast from fans released very recently
http://www.gamebreaker.tv/video-game-shows/guild-wars-video/guildcast-guild-wars-show/trinity-terminated/
Around the 21 minute mark there is a quote from a dev about how the combat works without the trinity - basically a lot more self-reliance, with occassional support play of an ally, it seems. This is then discussed, and refreshingly from the point of view that it is not better, going to sink all trinity games etc, but rather it is different and provides variety.
Then at the 35 minute they take a 5 man dps team into one of the games dungeons, and eventually triumph - to prove there is no need for the trinity within GW2. So I know this was designed to showcase the lack of need of the trinity, and so not necessarily particularly representative of group play in general, but there is the discussion as well, both at the 21 minute mark, and after this and at the end. Then there is the lack generally (from what I have seen) showcasing this new trinity etc.
So hence, is this new trinity relevant at all, or not?
So me leaving off the "n" on "then" caused you confusion and made you have to interpret my post?
Of course end game is not all about raiding. I see endgame as progression, as ways to advance you character. I see stat, cosmetic, and ability progression as endgame, aswell as any activity that is different form what you were doing while you were leveling.
Feel free to comment Mack, but let's not turn this into our own personal discussion. The title of the thread has been changed. This topic is no longer relevant.
Just extraordinary !
Thank you.
gw2 has 3 roles like shown in the video. The best part is not only can every class be any of the roles you can even spec to be all 3 in a single fight depending on skill setup. Also as seen in other videos the mechanics of fights don't heavily rely on a single role being needed so groups that aren't spec'd for all 3 can still take on most of the games content if played rightI angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
GG Aero
Was glad to see that the guy in the video understands the mystic forge about as well as I do. Thought I was an idiot at first
I agree. Sticky this MMORPG.com staff!
I agree with this as well.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Amazing post Aerowyn! Thank you for doing this. This post will be a go-to post from here on out
GW2 has all of those. Stat progression is there level 80 white gear stats will be a good deal lower than a purple set the main difference is the gap between the two is not as huge as other games like warcraft. GW2 uses a similar system that TSW uses to customize gear with runes and sigils and such to improve your abilities which you should appreciate.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Aerowyn, you have now become my official go-to person with regards to anything and everything GW2 :-)
YOU ROCK!!
most of the credit goes to the people who spent all that time putting those videos together I just picked through the sea of videos on youtube and found ones i thought would help people and make it easier to find information on the game:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Well... you still rock!! haha
Assembling all of these in such an easy to use fashion is a wonderous thing.
Thanks for all your time Aerowyn!
It's making me salavate for launch already!
Thanks for creating this nice collection of informative videos about GW2. I hope Arena Net will add some social activities in the game soon after launch. At the moment there is a lot of fun stuff to do, but not much that does not involve fighting/gathering/crafting to some extent. Housing is hopefully not too far away after launch. With a great composer such as Jeremy Soule, I look forward to more stuff involving music (i.e. a player-made music system like in LOTRO). Would you like to include the video about a certain underwater pipe organ in the puzzles section? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcUjwdJLQ78 - contains spoiler!) Looking forward to the stress test today.Only 2,5 hours to go :-)
"Fire is never a gentle master..."
The 30(was it 30?) social activities will be in at launch.
Like Keg brawl was one of them, and there are more just not in beta.
Not all activities will invole fighting.
Each capital city will have unique social activities.
I don't know if they count the "chess" thing in the Asura starting area as an activity.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Very nice rubuttal sir. 100% AGREED.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.