Could they do it? Yes.. it is their game, they are smart people, technicaly there is no reason they couldn't do it.
Will they do it.. no, and I am thankfull. The problem with raid content is that only a small percent of the population gets to see it. I don't have time to sign up and schedule play time with 20 or 40 other people anymore... and neither do alot of people. Anet is trying to make a game that everyone can play, raiding leaves alot of people on the outside looking in.
I can see that with traditional raiding but traditional raiding wouldnt work in GW2 anyway. The system ANET could introduce could be something never seen before.. something that everyone could take part in and enjoy. But even if it wasnt for casuals the gear rewards would not set raiders apart but would still provide them with the same challenges.
The better gear rewards is usually why casuals speak out against raiding but in GW2 the gear would not be any more powerful.
One of the reasons I'm wanting to play GW2 is the LACK of raiding. I mean, I suppose they could HAVE raiding and I just wouldn't do it. I'm so burnt out on raiding I honestly couldn't care less if I never raid again. Small groups are plenty excitement for me. But I'm not opposed to people that WANT to raid getting to raid.
Anyway, the answer to the OP......no, I would not.
When I think back to previous games I've raided in, it seems like all of the endgame content was centered around the next raid. The next patch. What raid do we get next?
What I would prefer in GW2 is for them to expand the world as quickly as possible. I want to ask the question, "what zone do we get next?" I feel like the bigger, more varied and more interesting they make the world, the happier I will be. They can even expand the world on levels lower than 80. Over time, because of level scaling and the way their system works, the world becomes massive and nothing is made obsolete.
I think once the world gets to a certain point in size and quality, adding zones that are more exclusive to players requiring a challenge open up as a more attractive option than adding something that is available to everyone. Entire zones that require 10+ people to compete in could be part of the future of Dynamic Events and zones. It's really this style of raiding that I'm looking forward to.
you sir are absolutely correct , and I can agree 100% with this. Im so sick of playing games for months and then having to grind more levels and chase more gear. This game is about exploration and its about time a mmorpg gets that . I hope they never raise the level cap and keep adding in new zones to explore and level down to etc. If you want to make a community that is immersed this is a great idea to impliment.
Arenanet have created raid type content before. I refer specifically to - The Deep and Urgoz Warren from GW1.
They were 12 man instances (typical party max is 8) and required a LOT of co-ordination. There were deadly/debilitating global environmental effects and hard extremely tough trash on top of harder bosses. If your entire party happened to die then it's just game over - return to outpost. Want to try again? Start from the beginning. These places are completely unforgiving.
These places only provided cosmetic gear, rare materials and bragging rights. I can't say how popular they are today but in their prime that top tier content rivals heroic raiding. I do not joke here.
that sounds fun. I wouldnt mind actually playing with my other friends too making a party of 10-12.
Yeah that does sound fun.
They could be similiar to GW1s Underworld/FoW that drop special mats used @ special armor venders as well.
It could definitely work, and the game already has some content more geared for this type of experience.
Basically, the only real issue here is that getting 12 people to all stack on 1 boss is a bit of a clusterf&*. They would probably have to design the encounters to split up the groups back down into smaller chunks, and have each group performing a different task (ie. group 1 on boss, group 2 defending / using device across the room, group 3 on cleanup) Not entirely out of the question.
It could definitely work, and the game already has some content more geared for this type of experience.
Basically, the only real issue here is that getting 12 people to all stack on 1 boss is a bit of a clusterf&*. They would probably have to design the encounters to split up the groups back down into smaller chunks, and have each group performing a different task (ie. group 1 on boss, group 2 defending / using device across the room, group 3 on cleanup) Not entirely out of the question.
yea I could see this being a problem without set roles and such would really just depend on the mechanics of the fight I suppose. Either way in some form or another i can see them adding something although the elder dragon battles look to be a lot of fun for a large group of players to tackle
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Arenanet have created raid type content before. I refer specifically to - The Deep and Urgoz Warren from GW1.
They were 12 man instances (typical party max is 8) and required a LOT of co-ordination. There were deadly/debilitating global environmental effects and hard extremely tough trash on top of harder bosses. If your entire party happened to die then it's just game over - return to outpost. Want to try again? Start from the beginning. These places are completely unforgiving.
These places only provided cosmetic gear, rare materials and bragging rights. I can't say how popular they are today but in their prime that top tier content rivals heroic raiding. I do not joke here.
that sounds fun. I wouldnt mind actually playing with my other friends too making a party of 10-12.
Yeah that does sound fun.
They could be similiar to GW1s Underworld/FoW that drop special mats used @ special armor venders as well.
It is fun but I do warn that it eventually breeded elitism. It became harder and harder to find groups because they wanted you in a specific type of build. If you weren't running it you weren't coming. Optimized builds were a product of wanting fast/reliable runs of course. Although there was probably still room to create different builds once you get something that works/filters down from the elite it usually became the staple.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
Arenanet have created raid type content before. I refer specifically to - The Deep and Urgoz Warren from GW1.
They were 12 man instances (typical party max is 8) and required a LOT of co-ordination. There were deadly/debilitating global environmental effects and hard extremely tough trash on top of harder bosses. If your entire party happened to die then it's just game over - return to outpost. Want to try again? Start from the beginning. These places are completely unforgiving.
These places only provided cosmetic gear, rare materials and bragging rights. I can't say how popular they are today but in their prime that top tier content rivals heroic raiding. I do not joke here.
that sounds fun. I wouldnt mind actually playing with my other friends too making a party of 10-12.
Yeah that does sound fun.
They could be similiar to GW1s Underworld/FoW that drop special mats used @ special armor venders as well.
It is fun but I do warn that it eventually breeded elitism. It became harder and harder to find groups because they wanted you in a specific type of build. If you weren't running it you weren't coming. Optimized builds were a product of wanting fast/reliable runs of course. Although there was probably still room to create different builds once you get something that works/filters down from the elite it usually became the staple.
Do you honestly believe we will not be seeing this anyway? in GW2?
As much as we would like to think it wont happen I cant help but be a bit of a negative nancy. Fact of the matter is there will always be some builds that are better suited for certain roles than others. There will always be people min/maxing.
People will definetly be /LF specific profession/build combos for dungeons/sPvP. Its just the way of things.
Do you honestly believe we will not be seeing this anyway? in GW2?
As much as we would like to think it wont happen I cant help but be a bit of a negative nancy. Fact of the matter is there will always be some builds that are better suited for certain roles than others. There will always be people min/maxing.
People will definetly be /LF specific profession/build combos for dungeons/sPvP. Its just the way of things.
Haha yeah I guess I was already expecting it. Buildcast and Arenajunkies probably proves this. Hearing Ed Parks talk about pvp is scary.
I haven't watched the whole thing but I found a Woodenpotatoes video for The Deep (the one I finished, never seen urgoz warren)
Originally posted by colddog04 Basically they would amount to instanced dynamic events with a higher difficulty. I think they could work without the trinity in the same way large scale dynamic events work without the trinity.
Yeah. The fire elemental zone boss in the 1-15 Asura area could easily be a model. Though that particular encounter has issues the developers are well aware of...
For the sake of argument IMO raid = epic content taking 10 or more people to defeat.
It might in ANets best interest to introduce some sort of instanced raid progression depending on how sucessful GW2 is. While I'm a fan of overworld raid content, and love how you interact with strangers in GW2, there can come a point where too much is a bad thing.
Raid DEs are supposed to scale by # of people so they are challenging and fun. Too many people could make the encounter either trivial or frustrating if the boss becomes so powerful it's instantly one-shotting people. I believe ANet already knows and has it under control. I'm going to pretend they don't.
Giving traditional raiders instanced raiding could spread the players out a bit and let the system function easier. All studies have show. There are more casual players than hardcore/raiders so its not as through those doing open world encounters will be hung out to dry, there will be plenty of people there.
Originally posted by Aelious For the sake of argument IMO raid = epic content taking 10 or more people to defeat.
It might in ANets best interest to introduce some sort of instanced raid progression depending on how sucessful GW2 is. While I'm a fan of overworld raid content, and love how you interact with strangers in GW2, there can come a point where too much is a bad thing.
Raid DEs are supposed to scale by # of people so they are challenging and fun. Too many people could make the encounter either trivial or frustrating if the boss becomes so powerful it's instantly one-shotting people. I believe ANet already knows and has it under control. I'm going to pretend they don't.
Giving traditional raiders instanced raiding could spread the players out a bit and let the system function easier. All studies have show. There are more casual players than hardcore/raiders so its not as through those doing open world encounters will be hung out to dry, there will be plenty of people there.
If they do that, they better not think of placing high level gear into them as a reward, or it's race to the endgame all over again. We don't need GW2 to be added to the crap pile of WoW wannabes tyvm.
Originally posted by Aelious For the sake of argument IMO raid = epic content taking 10 or more people to defeat.
It might in ANets best interest to introduce some sort of instanced raid progression depending on how sucessful GW2 is. While I'm a fan of overworld raid content, and love how you interact with strangers in GW2, there can come a point where too much is a bad thing.
Raid DEs are supposed to scale by # of people so they are challenging and fun. Too many people could make the encounter either trivial or frustrating if the boss becomes so powerful it's instantly one-shotting people. I believe ANet already knows and has it under control. I'm going to pretend they don't.
Giving traditional raiders instanced raiding could spread the players out a bit and let the system function easier. All studies have show. There are more casual players than hardcore/raiders so its not as through those doing open world encounters will be hung out to dry, there will be plenty of people there.
If they do that, they better not think of placing high level gear into them as a reward, or it's race to the endgame all over again. We don't need GW2 to be added to the crap pile of WoW wannabes tyvm.
I think we are safe to assume if anything like this was implimented the gear would be no different than the gear earned in pvp or reg. dungeons if there were gear rewards at all.
I think as I said in another thread on this topic, Raids could be used to promote more consequence across the board as well as PVP can be used in the same way.
This is the post I am referring to. I've never been a raider simply because I don't enjoy fighting NPC's in an MMO, I'm all about PVP. However if they were used in a way that didn't result in gear grinds they could work really well IMO I may even take part in them.
I'd say a better usage for endgame would be structuring PVE to benefit PVP, and vice versa. SImilar to how Darkness Falls worked in DAOC, which could be hugely expanded on, on both fronts of play.
Raids that affect wars of attrition, PVP battles that affect PVE effectiveness for better or worse. There are tons of things that could be done with Themepark endgame that greater effect the overall game and those playing it.
A themepark MMO that stressed first and foremost the MMO part of the equation
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Bladestrom Simple gated approach works nicely as part of an over arching storyline. Each instance offers unique looking gear and same token system as other gw2 instances. Clear instance b get key to instance c (1 key needed only in raid group)
I've always been dead set against this approach in every MMO that's ever had it. Working on the theory that I've paid the same price for the box or am paying the same amount of subscription as everyone else is, a developer has no right to block my access to content which I have paid - or am paying - for.
As an example let's look at WoW, since it's been around for so long and can be used to good example. Say I stopped playing for a few months for some reason. Maybe I was seriously ill, or had to go work abroad. Now I come back to the game and find my guild on the top tier of content but in order to gain access to that I have to unlock it by raiding lower tiers for gear, or to gain the key to "UNLOCK" the next stage. Speaking from experience I know it's extremely difficult to get a raid together to go back to this "old" content. People just don't want to do it. So now, because of this requirment to unlock access to the highest tier content, I am effectively blocked from ever taking part in it. Even though I pay the same as everyone else. That is fundamentally wrong. It's one of the reasons I quite EQ when PoP came out.
As for the OP's post. I don't see the need for "raid content" in a game where DE's scale up in difficulty to match the numbers taking part. In fact I thought it a step backwards when raids in WoW raids were set at 40 people, and was even more disappointed when it dropped to 25 or 10. EQ allowed for as many as wanted to turn up. Some Guilds would zerg raids, because they lacked gear and/or skill, where others would try and complete them with as few people as possible, just for bragging rights. At least that way of doing things still allowed people to make the attempt, regardless of their skill / gear level. And rightly so. They paid the same as everyone else did.
Arenanet have created raid type content before. I refer specifically to - The Deep and Urgoz Warren from GW1.
They were 12 man instances (typical party max is 8) and required a LOT of co-ordination. There were deadly/debilitating global environmental effects and hard extremely tough trash on top of harder bosses. If your entire party happened to die then it's just game over - return to outpost. Want to try again? Start from the beginning. These places are completely unforgiving.
These places only provided cosmetic gear, rare materials and bragging rights. I can't say how popular they are today but in their prime that top tier content rivals heroic raiding. I do not joke here.
that sounds fun. I wouldnt mind actually playing with my other friends too making a party of 10-12.
Yeah that does sound fun.
They could be similiar to GW1s Underworld/FoW that drop special mats used @ special armor venders as well.
It is fun but I do warn that it eventually breeded elitism. It became harder and harder to find groups because they wanted you in a specific type of build. If you weren't running it you weren't coming. Optimized builds were a product of wanting fast/reliable runs of course. Although there was probably still room to create different builds once you get something that works/filters down from the elite it usually became the staple.
Do you honestly believe we will not be seeing this anyway? in GW2?
As much as we would like to think it wont happen I cant help but be a bit of a negative nancy. Fact of the matter is there will always be some builds that are better suited for certain roles than others. There will always be people min/maxing.
People will definetly be /LF specific profession/build combos for dungeons/sPvP. Its just the way of things.
Humans are humans. You see it everywhere. The goal is to prevent it from destroying certain aspects of the game because some clown posse of self-identified elites has determined 'this is the best way.'
I think many of the opinions are based off what we have seen from developers in the past when it comes to raiding and rightfully so... what else do we have to compare it to right?
But ANET is breaking the mold in other aspects of mmos, what they could impliment for a raid progression system could be something we've never seen before..
raiding has picked up a horrible reputation because of the players attitudes (yes im steriotyping) that had access to it, the rewards it provided to a small pecentage of players and well, the way it was implimented.
If we are simply talking about instanced content difficult enough that you need 10+ players to complete it then thats pretty open when it comes to the possabilities.
No, no hear change at all, just a variation of big encounters in a controlled environment. You could even break them down to "factions" of the elder dragons and have an entrance spawn somewhere in a random zone. That's factions lackies start roughing up people in the area and clues you in that an encounter instance is nearby.
so your going to try to get 20 players all there with the only satisfaction of cool looking gear nothing else it could work but i think id have more fun rolling a alt
i remember waiting for people to turn up at 7 and at 8:30 still sitting there because someone cant make it till then
then doing a raid and getting no items so ive just spent a whole 3-4 hours for nothing or a item drops and someone who will gain 0.01 dps gets it where as you would gain 10-20 dps and dont even get a mention
or you gear people up only for them to leave your guild because your not hard core enough for them and now your guild has to gear up more noobs just for them to do the same
so your going to try to get 20 players all there with the only satisfaction of cool looking gear nothing else it could work but i think id have more fun rolling a alt
i remember waiting for people to turn up at 7 and at 8:30 still sitting there because someone cant make it till then
then doing a raid and getting no items so ive just spent a whole 3-4 hours for nothing or a item drops and someone who will gain 0.01 dps gets it where as you would gain 10-20 dps and dont even get a mention
or you gear people up only for them to leave your guild because your not hard core enough for them and now your guild has to gear up more noobs just for them to do the same
i think raids should stay in wow
I think those raids should stay in wow as well.
for some reason thats not how i would picture a raid in GW2.
The server that comes out on top at the end of the 2week WvW session is granted access to a special raid instance for a limited amount of time... adding another incentive to participate in WvW.
Comments
I can see that with traditional raiding but traditional raiding wouldnt work in GW2 anyway. The system ANET could introduce could be something never seen before.. something that everyone could take part in and enjoy. But even if it wasnt for casuals the gear rewards would not set raiders apart but would still provide them with the same challenges.
The better gear rewards is usually why casuals speak out against raiding but in GW2 the gear would not be any more powerful.
One of the reasons I'm wanting to play GW2 is the LACK of raiding. I mean, I suppose they could HAVE raiding and I just wouldn't do it. I'm so burnt out on raiding I honestly couldn't care less if I never raid again. Small groups are plenty excitement for me. But I'm not opposed to people that WANT to raid getting to raid.
Anyway, the answer to the OP......no, I would not.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
you sir are absolutely correct , and I can agree 100% with this. Im so sick of playing games for months and then having to grind more levels and chase more gear. This game is about exploration and its about time a mmorpg gets that . I hope they never raise the level cap and keep adding in new zones to explore and level down to etc. If you want to make a community that is immersed this is a great idea to impliment.
Yeah that does sound fun.
They could be similiar to GW1s Underworld/FoW that drop special mats used @ special armor venders as well.
It could definitely work, and the game already has some content more geared for this type of experience.
Basically, the only real issue here is that getting 12 people to all stack on 1 boss is a bit of a clusterf&*. They would probably have to design the encounters to split up the groups back down into smaller chunks, and have each group performing a different task (ie. group 1 on boss, group 2 defending / using device across the room, group 3 on cleanup) Not entirely out of the question.
yea I could see this being a problem without set roles and such would really just depend on the mechanics of the fight I suppose. Either way in some form or another i can see them adding something although the elder dragon battles look to be a lot of fun for a large group of players to tackle
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
It is fun but I do warn that it eventually breeded elitism. It became harder and harder to find groups because they wanted you in a specific type of build. If you weren't running it you weren't coming. Optimized builds were a product of wanting fast/reliable runs of course. Although there was probably still room to create different builds once you get something that works/filters down from the elite it usually became the staple.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
Do you honestly believe we will not be seeing this anyway? in GW2?
As much as we would like to think it wont happen I cant help but be a bit of a negative nancy. Fact of the matter is there will always be some builds that are better suited for certain roles than others. There will always be people min/maxing.
People will definetly be /LF specific profession/build combos for dungeons/sPvP. Its just the way of things.
Haha yeah I guess I was already expecting it. Buildcast and Arenajunkies probably proves this. Hearing Ed Parks talk about pvp is scary.
I haven't watched the whole thing but I found a Woodenpotatoes video for The Deep (the one I finished, never seen urgoz warren)
http://youtu.be/bkZsCLOkRaM?t=9m14s
First bit is him farting about.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
Yeah. The fire elemental zone boss in the 1-15 Asura area could easily be a model. Though that particular encounter has issues the developers are well aware of...
It might in ANets best interest to introduce some sort of instanced raid progression depending on how sucessful GW2 is. While I'm a fan of overworld raid content, and love how you interact with strangers in GW2, there can come a point where too much is a bad thing.
Raid DEs are supposed to scale by # of people so they are challenging and fun. Too many people could make the encounter either trivial or frustrating if the boss becomes so powerful it's instantly one-shotting people. I believe ANet already knows and has it under control. I'm going to pretend they don't.
Giving traditional raiders instanced raiding could spread the players out a bit and let the system function easier. All studies have show. There are more casual players than hardcore/raiders so its not as through those doing open world encounters will be hung out to dry, there will be plenty of people there.
If they do that, they better not think of placing high level gear into them as a reward, or it's race to the endgame all over again. We don't need GW2 to be added to the crap pile of WoW wannabes tyvm.
I think we are safe to assume if anything like this was implimented the gear would be no different than the gear earned in pvp or reg. dungeons if there were gear rewards at all.
I think as I said in another thread on this topic, Raids could be used to promote more consequence across the board as well as PVP can be used in the same way.
This is the post I am referring to. I've never been a raider simply because I don't enjoy fighting NPC's in an MMO, I'm all about PVP. However if they were used in a way that didn't result in gear grinds they could work really well IMO I may even take part in them.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I've always been dead set against this approach in every MMO that's ever had it. Working on the theory that I've paid the same price for the box or am paying the same amount of subscription as everyone else is, a developer has no right to block my access to content which I have paid - or am paying - for.
As an example let's look at WoW, since it's been around for so long and can be used to good example. Say I stopped playing for a few months for some reason. Maybe I was seriously ill, or had to go work abroad. Now I come back to the game and find my guild on the top tier of content but in order to gain access to that I have to unlock it by raiding lower tiers for gear, or to gain the key to "UNLOCK" the next stage. Speaking from experience I know it's extremely difficult to get a raid together to go back to this "old" content. People just don't want to do it. So now, because of this requirment to unlock access to the highest tier content, I am effectively blocked from ever taking part in it. Even though I pay the same as everyone else. That is fundamentally wrong. It's one of the reasons I quite EQ when PoP came out.
As for the OP's post. I don't see the need for "raid content" in a game where DE's scale up in difficulty to match the numbers taking part. In fact I thought it a step backwards when raids in WoW raids were set at 40 people, and was even more disappointed when it dropped to 25 or 10. EQ allowed for as many as wanted to turn up. Some Guilds would zerg raids, because they lacked gear and/or skill, where others would try and complete them with as few people as possible, just for bragging rights. At least that way of doing things still allowed people to make the attempt, regardless of their skill / gear level. And rightly so. They paid the same as everyone else did.
Humans are humans. You see it everywhere. The goal is to prevent it from destroying certain aspects of the game because some clown posse of self-identified elites has determined 'this is the best way.'
I think many of the opinions are based off what we have seen from developers in the past when it comes to raiding and rightfully so... what else do we have to compare it to right?
But ANET is breaking the mold in other aspects of mmos, what they could impliment for a raid progression system could be something we've never seen before..
raiding has picked up a horrible reputation because of the players attitudes (yes im steriotyping) that had access to it, the rewards it provided to a small pecentage of players and well, the way it was implimented.
If we are simply talking about instanced content difficult enough that you need 10+ players to complete it then thats pretty open when it comes to the possabilities.
No, no hear change at all, just a variation of big encounters in a controlled environment. You could even break them down to "factions" of the elder dragons and have an entrance spawn somewhere in a random zone. That's factions lackies start roughing up people in the area and clues you in that an encounter instance is nearby.
so your going to try to get 20 players all there with the only satisfaction of cool looking gear nothing else it could work but i think id have more fun rolling a alt
i remember waiting for people to turn up at 7 and at 8:30 still sitting there because someone cant make it till then
then doing a raid and getting no items so ive just spent a whole 3-4 hours for nothing or a item drops and someone who will gain 0.01 dps gets it where as you would gain 10-20 dps and dont even get a mention
or you gear people up only for them to leave your guild because your not hard core enough for them and now your guild has to gear up more noobs just for them to do the same
i think raids should stay in wow
I think those raids should stay in wow as well.
for some reason thats not how i would picture a raid in GW2.
Raids = poor games end game... so please no (at least not like in "the other mmo´s")
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