On a simple fact that there is absolutely NO LIABILITY, NO TRANSPARENCY for money you donate nor project itself.
You can collect money on Kickstarter, never deliver, buy a new Porsche for yourself and just laugh in people's faces. All very legal.
Not to say that idea of donating livelihood of healthy, capable adult individuals is just ill minded.
I think kickstarter is a great way for indie companies to fund their games. Most of the games indie companeis want to work on would never get a look in from the big publishers because if its not a WOW clone or a COD clone then its not worth them taking the risk if you know what i mean.
There are quite a few really good looking games popping up on Kickstarter now and I have backed a couple myself.
Saying that your also right about there being no liability after they have made enough pledges. There does need to be some kind of regulaton I guess but how you could go around doing this im not sure. At least for now they have to be legally registered companies but i guess that still dont help anyone if they go under.. Either way I dont mind taking a bit of a gamble with say $20-$30 every now and then. I dont think i would be silly enough to do any of the really big donations tho.
Sadly SRO does not pull the right strings for me, I will probally check it out once it get released like I did with Jagged Alliance online but JAO was jsut missing somthing.
Anyone else envision two actors in Elizabethan garb emoting at each other? Odd turn of phrase there :P
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
i am pretty sure that if it looks like they are going to eb a few $$ they have people who will go in and help them out (or even pay them self trough other people.)
Originally posted by Caldrin I think kickstarter is a great way for indie companies to fund their games. Most of the games indie companeis want to work on would never get a look in from the big publishers
Why indie company "must" get a big publisher? Why big publishers should be obliged to publish any indie project?
And most importantly: Why would indie company with reasonable idea, budget and business plan be turned down by ANY publisher or investor?
You make it sound like those indie companies have a right to produce games. They don't.
The truth is, when no investor has an interest in putting money into your project, your project does not posses prospects for reasonable profit and return of investment and as such there is no need for project to get funds and to live.
This applies to any business and game development is no exception.
Kickstarter is not a great opportunity for indie companies, it is a great opportunity for any company as you can dramatically lower the risk or avoid it completely.
No risk business is a bad practice that will exhaust the market sooner or later.
Originally posted by Caldrin Saying that your also right about there being no liability after they have made enough pledges. There does need to be some kind of regulaton I guess but how you could go around doing this im not sure. At least for now they have to be legally registered companies but i guess that still dont help anyone if they go under..
What you can do is to get commercial crowdfunding onto level of regular investment methods and their policies.
What I believe will happen is that we will see "mini-stock" private equity. Instead of receiving donations, companies will be able to trade their equity and companies will be liable for their securities, comply to disclose all materials facts and risks to investors, etc. just like in any other kind of investment.
We will still see a lot of scams and frauds but that is the price. Common folk isn't very business minded and financially educated but you cannot tell people how to spend their money, you can only provide tools, guidance for their spending and a little bit of security.
This project will only be funded if at least $500,000 is pledged by Tuesday Aug 14, 4:00pm EDT
$370,826 pledged of $500,000 goal
I am quite happy they did not make it. It still scares me tho to see the insane amount of money people are donating living of healthy, adult people without any material need.
As much as I'd love this to become a reality something inside just says to leave Shadowrun how it is. If it does become a reality I would rather have a middle ground design company run the operation. Not published by EA and not run out of someones garage but just enough to passion for the game/genre to make it work.
It suprises me how many people in this thread are saying they hope it doesnt get funded. If you arent interested in it then dont play it or buy it when it comes out, but how does it getting made affect you in any way?
If people want to fund it then I am happy for them and the developer. It means jobs for the studios and the people supporting will get to play something they are interested in.
I am not pledging to this game, but I wouldn't hope for them to fail. That is just kind of morbid.
Why indie company "must" get a big publisher? Why big publishers should be obliged to publish any indie project?
And most importantly: Why would indie company with reasonable idea, budget and business plan be turned down by ANY publisher or investor?
You make it sound like those indie companies have a right to produce games. They don't.
The truth is, when no investor has an interest in putting money into your project, your project does not posses prospects for reasonable profit and return of investment and as such there is no need for project to get funds and to live.
This applies to any business and game development is no exception.
Kickstarter is not a great opportunity for indie companies, it is a great opportunity for any company as you can dramatically lower the risk or avoid it completely.
No risk business is a bad practice that will exhaust the market sooner or later.
Indie companies generally dont have much cash and thats just how it is. What Kickstarter does is give them a way to get some additional funding. As I said big publishers and investors are just not interested if the game is somthing new. All they want to do is cash in on maknig wow clones and COD clones and we have seen it time and time again over the years since those games where released.
They have every right to be able to make their game just like anyone else if they wanted and had the skill, afterall most of us live in free countries where we can decide to do what we like when it comes to things like that. Now most indie devs will put in a ton of their own cash maybe even re-mortgage their house or whatever but they are not rolling in money and sadly games cost money to make.
So crowdfunding is a really good option for them and its good for the gaming industry.. it means we will get to see games like Wasteland 2, a new shadowrun rpg on pc, a new carmageddon game... I for one am happy that I threw in a few $ to help those out as they are all games i would love to play but without Kickstarter we probally would never have seen them. Thats not because they will be bad games, or the devs are not good at what they do tis because they would never find anyone to back them as those games are not cash cows in the eyes of big publishers and investors..
So i totally support Kickstarter and am glad its around...
haha infact after looking into this a bit more i decided to back it.
Considering the millions shadowrun returns and wasteland 2 got for funding, 500k isn't asking much.
The problem is that essentially the game looks like a browser game, albiet a high end one. And while I was able to fund the former 2 projects and get free games for 20 bucks, this one has a free version and they intend to sell the non mta version for 40 bucks, and you have to pledge 25 to get it through kickstarter.
It just doesn't make sense to price it that high. It should be 15 through KS and 30 at release. They would have gotten a lot more support that way. Only 1k people pledged 25. Should be 20k people interested in it, but they'd rather just wait till it comes out and play it for free and take their chances that success won't cost 25 dollars through mta.
Originally posted by Krellen It suprises me how many people in this thread are saying they hope it doesnt get funded. If you arent interested in it then dont play it or buy it when it comes out, but how does it getting made affect you in any way?If people want to fund it then I am happy for them and the developer. It means jobs for the studios and the people supporting will get to play something they are interested in. I am not pledging to this game, but I wouldn't hope for them to fail. That is just kind of morbid.
While it does not affect me directly, it is an interesting topic.
It is a huge loophole introduced with JOBS ACT and needs to be addressed promptly as it is currently on a borderline of legality.
And you are wrong that it is good for industry. In short term sight, probably. In long term, the prospects are grim.
More people donate, more money will be lost since this type of funding stripped for liability will produce high amount of failed projects and more projects fail, less people will be willing to put their money in.
I do not care how people spend their money, I do care tho if business is kept liable and transparent.
I miss the days of PnP of this game. It was a break from D+D every once in a while. FASA had a good thing, not sure how they lost it all, but then so did TSR. All things change I guess.
There was a ShadowRun MMO game created by Microsoft once, but it didn't last long, I saw it and went back to the store later to buy it and they had taken it off the shelves as the game had been discontinued.
I wish the best for this Kickstarter honestly, it's an unbelieveable IP. It mixes a future post apocalyptic world with intense tech/bionics weaponry and fantasy magic / native american lore. The openness to crafting and skill sets was bar none. All set in real life cities, er post-apocalypse. The story is incredible as well, very scary how close the real world is coming to mirror it.
having just browest the little write up and reading parts of this thread... i kinda chuckle.. page 1 had several people say it wont get funding.. yet i look at it now and
5,439
backers
$511,450
pledged of $500,000 goal<p hide-suspended"="">
4
hours to go
well looks like almost 5.5k people want this game so time will tell if it was worth the money lolol
Doesn't look that great, but at the same time I cannot judge it, maybe it will be really awesome on my phone as a time killer. I like the IP so I'll just wait and see before I say people threw away 500k
Just on a side note, why are the people that were hoping for it to not make the 500.000$ goal posting in here and just being offensive? If you don't like a certain game, why do you feel the need to be so opposed to it, seeing the amount of backers and therefore budget they reached, a lot of people DO enjoy this game-style.
Comments
I think kickstarter is a great way for indie companies to fund their games. Most of the games indie companeis want to work on would never get a look in from the big publishers because if its not a WOW clone or a COD clone then its not worth them taking the risk if you know what i mean.
There are quite a few really good looking games popping up on Kickstarter now and I have backed a couple myself.
Saying that your also right about there being no liability after they have made enough pledges. There does need to be some kind of regulaton I guess but how you could go around doing this im not sure. At least for now they have to be legally registered companies but i guess that still dont help anyone if they go under.. Either way I dont mind taking a bit of a gamble with say $20-$30 every now and then. I dont think i would be silly enough to do any of the really big donations tho.
Sadly SRO does not pull the right strings for me, I will probally check it out once it get released like I did with Jagged Alliance online but JAO was jsut missing somthing.
<29K in 10Hrs....
Seen a real SURGE in the last 48Hrs. Imagine if they fall a couple of hundies short - !
"I CAN MA-AAKE IT!"
http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1964352341/shadowrun-online/#chart-exp-projection
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
player vs. player role-playing action!!
Anyone else envision two actors in Elizabethan garb emoting at each other? Odd turn of phrase there :P
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
This have been a good conversation
Why indie company "must" get a big publisher?
Why big publishers should be obliged to publish any indie project?
And most importantly:
Why would indie company with reasonable idea, budget and business plan be turned down by ANY publisher or investor?
You make it sound like those indie companies have a right to produce games. They don't.
The truth is, when no investor has an interest in putting money into your project, your project does not posses prospects for reasonable profit and return of investment and as such there is no need for project to get funds and to live.
This applies to any business and game development is no exception.
Kickstarter is not a great opportunity for indie companies, it is a great opportunity for any company as you can dramatically lower the risk or avoid it completely.
No risk business is a bad practice that will exhaust the market sooner or later.
What you can do is to get commercial crowdfunding onto level of regular investment methods and their policies.
What I believe will happen is that we will see "mini-stock" private equity. Instead of receiving donations, companies will be able to trade their equity and companies will be liable for their securities, comply to disclose all materials facts and risks to investors, etc. just like in any other kind of investment.
We will still see a lot of scams and frauds but that is the price. Common folk isn't very business minded and financially educated but you cannot tell people how to spend their money, you can only provide tools, guidance for their spending and a little bit of security.
Because basing on the trend, there was no indication they will make it. Unfortunately there was high surge of donation in past remaining hours...
theyll make it
20k to go in the next 7 hours
EQ2 fan sites
Unfortunately it may turn out that way....
Then you should have written, that they probably wouldn't make, not that they did not make it. Trend is trend, fact is fact.
18.5K to go with 7 hours left.
It suprises me how many people in this thread are saying they hope it doesnt get funded. If you arent interested in it then dont play it or buy it when it comes out, but how does it getting made affect you in any way?
If people want to fund it then I am happy for them and the developer. It means jobs for the studios and the people supporting will get to play something they are interested in.
I am not pledging to this game, but I wouldn't hope for them to fail. That is just kind of morbid.
Indie companies generally dont have much cash and thats just how it is. What Kickstarter does is give them a way to get some additional funding. As I said big publishers and investors are just not interested if the game is somthing new. All they want to do is cash in on maknig wow clones and COD clones and we have seen it time and time again over the years since those games where released.
They have every right to be able to make their game just like anyone else if they wanted and had the skill, afterall most of us live in free countries where we can decide to do what we like when it comes to things like that. Now most indie devs will put in a ton of their own cash maybe even re-mortgage their house or whatever but they are not rolling in money and sadly games cost money to make.
So crowdfunding is a really good option for them and its good for the gaming industry.. it means we will get to see games like Wasteland 2, a new shadowrun rpg on pc, a new carmageddon game... I for one am happy that I threw in a few $ to help those out as they are all games i would love to play but without Kickstarter we probally would never have seen them. Thats not because they will be bad games, or the devs are not good at what they do tis because they would never find anyone to back them as those games are not cash cows in the eyes of big publishers and investors..
So i totally support Kickstarter and am glad its around...
haha infact after looking into this a bit more i decided to back it.
Considering the millions shadowrun returns and wasteland 2 got for funding, 500k isn't asking much.
The problem is that essentially the game looks like a browser game, albiet a high end one. And while I was able to fund the former 2 projects and get free games for 20 bucks, this one has a free version and they intend to sell the non mta version for 40 bucks, and you have to pledge 25 to get it through kickstarter.
It just doesn't make sense to price it that high. It should be 15 through KS and 30 at release. They would have gotten a lot more support that way. Only 1k people pledged 25. Should be 20k people interested in it, but they'd rather just wait till it comes out and play it for free and take their chances that success won't cost 25 dollars through mta.
While it does not affect me directly, it is an interesting topic.
It is a huge loophole introduced with JOBS ACT and needs to be addressed promptly as it is currently on a borderline of legality.
And you are wrong that it is good for industry. In short term sight, probably. In long term, the prospects are grim.
More people donate, more money will be lost since this type of funding stripped for liability will produce high amount of failed projects and more projects fail, less people will be willing to put their money in.
I do not care how people spend their money, I do care tho if business is kept liable and transparent.
I miss the days of PnP of this game. It was a break from D+D every once in a while. FASA had a good thing, not sure how they lost it all, but then so did TSR. All things change I guess.
There was a ShadowRun MMO game created by Microsoft once, but it didn't last long, I saw it and went back to the store later to buy it and they had taken it off the shelves as the game had been discontinued.
I wish the best for this Kickstarter honestly, it's an unbelieveable IP. It mixes a future post apocalyptic world with intense tech/bionics weaponry and fantasy magic / native american lore. The openness to crafting and skill sets was bar none. All set in real life cities, er post-apocalypse. The story is incredible as well, very scary how close the real world is coming to mirror it.
Oh well, they made it
5,279 backers
$503,040 pledged of $500,000 goal
5 hours to go
I've hoped for a real MMO to be made from this IP aswell
Yes, we FRAGGIN MADE IT !
See it positive: If this game shows some AAA-corps that Shadowrun as an online game has a future, you will get your fully fledged AAA-MMO.
having just browest the little write up and reading parts of this thread... i kinda chuckle.. page 1 had several people say it wont get funding.. yet i look at it now and
5,439
backers$511,450
pledged of $500,000 goal<p hide-suspended"="">hours to go
Update #20: wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
They sound v happy!
- Looks like it has some potential, so good to see it's funded.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Congratz on getting the project funded.
Just on a side note, why are the people that were hoping for it to not make the 500.000$ goal posting in here and just being offensive? If you don't like a certain game, why do you feel the need to be so opposed to it, seeing the amount of backers and therefore budget they reached, a lot of people DO enjoy this game-style.
That is very narrow minded.
I wouldn't care if a game is a MMO. If the game is fun, i will play.