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I really dig this game, but here are the larger problems...
MindTrigger
Member Posts: 2,596
Look, I really enjoy TSW for what it is. I mean seriously, it's probably the most fun I've ever had in a theme park game, and that includes WoW. I prefer sandbox / hybrids, but this is a fun game.
The launch was smooth, and the content is absoultely beautiful and hand-crafted. The quests and dungeons are a good time too, and the flexibility of their skill-based system makes it so players can tweak their builds to make up for weak areas in PUG runs. I really enjoy that part. I can put up with bugs and stuff, because largely, the game runs great. Some bugs in a brand new game of this scale simply have to be expected, and they are working through them.
The problems are these, from my perspective as a self-appointed MMO expert:
1) Sub fees may or may not be dead at this point. I tend to think they are dead for themeparks, but maybe not so for sandbox or hybrids which offer much more longevity. However, since we don't have a AAA sandbox/hybrid to play, the jury is out on that.
2) As great as the content is, there's not enough of it, and there never will be. This is going to be a problem for ALL themeparks going forward. Players are no longer happy re-rolling and running mostly the same content as a way of extending their gameplay experience into multiple months. The Secret World seems to have a lot of content, but it all goes by very quickly, especially for players who have leveled up their skills and gear in PvP and Dungeons. Once you hit the higher QL levels and equip blue or purple gear, the PvE content goes like a hot knife through butter.
Aside from this, we are only about 30 days into this game's existence, and most of the population are running Nightmare dungeons and PvP for purple gear they won't have any use for. These are not "content locusts", they are playing the game at the pace the game sets, and they are getting through all of the content including multple runs through each dungeon, in 30-60 days max. As a casual player who is taking his time, I will have all of the content done in a couple weeks. The small updates Funcom is planning for monthly releases are not going to help much.
3) PvP isn't cutting it, and they should have had some open-world PvP servers available to spice up the gameplay for those who wanted a darker version of this game. The idea that all these factions have partnered up in complete friendship for the events unfolding in the game, is perhaps the most far-fetched aspect in a game full of conspiracy and myth.
4) Funcom has a game here that was BORN for RP and what I call RP-lite. RP refers to the hardcore theatric role players, where RP-lite refers to simply being a part of a community as a player, and getting involved in social aspects of the game without the actual theatrics.
The problem is that Funcom totally blew it. The Cabal (guild) system is little more than a bank vault and some chat. The cities like London, where people are begging to have social interaction, serve as only a backdrop to RP and social play, and offer zero other features to cater to a more social group of people. When you walk into one of the pubs in London, you can't even sit down at the bar or a table and chat with your friends. It's a damned shame they failed to see the importance of this in a game such as The Secret World, when their player base were hanging out on forums for YEARS talking, RPing, and investigating the ARG.
Understand that this game has largerly attracted a more diverse player base than most themeparks will. It attracted a lot more women (real ones) and more cerebral people who aren't just interested in combat. Most of these players seem to be adults, as I have personally run across very few children or people who act like idiots. PUGs are a pleasure in this game most of the time, and those people who are immature stand out like a sore thumb.
Funcom should be heavily focused on opening this game up to be more of a hybrid and less of a pure themepark. In fact, I think that is a fair thing to say that ALL themeparks should be doing at this stage of MMO evolution. We are starting to see sandbox features creep into new games in development now, because the message is finally getting out there. People want to be more a part of their game world now, and they want their worlds to be more dynamic. Re-rolling in Disneyland isn't going to cut it if you want players to stick around for the long haul. Especially if your business model includes a subscription.
------------------------------
What should they do?
I think most of us knew this game was going to fall into the 'niche' category. It's just not a game for the masses despite how much fun it can be. Funcom needs to play up to this, throw some round-table events to ask the base some questions, and take the game in a direction that is going to cater to their niche. This will likely attract more people who would be interested in it. They need to boost up the social aspects of this game, throw in some more hardcore ARG content that ties into the world, and add some hybrid features such as player housing, and more options for players to differentiate themselves. PvP needs work, and they seriously should consider a PvP server or two.
The alternative is to have such a great game go to waste by attempting to chase players with monthly updates that only offer 8-16 hours of new content that they are expected to spread out for a month, and pay a $15 fee for. This game and the community are perfect for a more hybrid direction of gameplay, and to make it a pure themepark is a damned shame.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Comments
Nice post. Forgive me for cutting the top. Here is a post that came today from Snow (Lead developer) on short term pvp plans.
http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=53912
I can not stress it enough. PvP in TSW is hard. You are responsible for making a build and itemizing that build so that you can perform. This is a shock and very different for people who are used to the traditional class/level = power systems.
Its good they acknowledge there are problems. This reminds me of TOR and Tera though, they also had lots of pvp problems and after the fact talked about how they will get fixed. PvP has to be done before the fact as part of the desing of the game, not tacked in and then fixed later on. Unfortunately its just how MMOs are doing things these days.
The biggest problem TSW has with pvp is that it is hard.
There is a very real learning curve when it comes to builds and itemization. You have the freedom of entering a battle with anywhere from 1900hp and 4k attack to 14khp with 0 attack, and everything inbetween.
It's a daunting task for a new player, but gives real depth which gives longevity to the system.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
OP put it better than I could, well done. I agree on all points.
I think this should have released with about 2 more zones and possbily open world PvP. Also it does appear that sub fees are going away for the most part across the genre and releasing with one may have been a slight error.
But overall, this is about as good as themeparks can get.
Lengthy, but solid read. Sub fees are not doing well with these recent themeparks now. TSW's in game shop is making more than originally expected, so maybe that wil provide a hint - as long as it remains cosmetic.
Content goes by at a decent rate (if you explore more, you'll find a few extra missions per map), quite fast if you group up with one person, super fast if you group up with more than one.
Casual players 30-60 days agreed.
A PVP server may be an interesting test
RP elements are quite strong, could use some sandbox features to help them out. Sitting in a chair
Good post.
Thanks for the reply. I'm curious as to what RP elements you think are strong though. All that really exists are some emotes, unless I am missing something. In my opinion, the social hangouts should be more dynamic and engaging on many levels, including having some mini-game activities, a more interactive environment, which includes things like being able to have a drink/smoke, and yes, even sitting down in a chair. Don't underestimate "hobby" features as well, such as the well-loved Fishing experience. How about gving players the ability to put up a camp fire out in the open lands while they are questing? In fact any features that encourage groups would be cool.
I know a lot of people don't care about these kind of things, but those who are social and/or heavy RPers love these details, and they go a long way toward building a community. This game seems to have more of these types of people in it, but I also think more people would like it if they tried it.
It's a problem with themepark games that everyone has to constantly feel like they are on a verticle climb to some endgame or level cap. One of the things I love about sandboxes is that they are much more horizontal in that regard, so sitting around a camp fire to heal or shoot the perverbial shit doesn't seem to interfere with gaming because they are part of whole experience.
Anyway, that's my .02. I don't really see any RP or social features in this game other than backdrop and emotes.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Tabula Rasa is actual RP content. it's an instanced zone for RPrs. The detail in the cities make RP easy imo.
I actually got into a rp thread on the forums for the first time before the game was released. It was about the Horned God bar/club in London. When I got into the game and went there I was floored by the place being as vibrant as I pictured. The RP community of TSW is very strong, and for good reason.
As far as little things I agree, would be neat to add this stuff like crafting blankets or w/e and such.
I really agree with virtually all of your thoughts on this, MindTrigger. I have the same thoughts about the game. I really like it, but the end for me and TSW is in sight. PvP is bad and there is not enough PvE content or replayability to keep me for the long haul. I'll probably hang for another couple of months to see what new things FC comes up with, but unless major changes are made to PvP or enough content makes its way into the game, I'll likely leave the best MMORPG I've played in a very long time.
However, I'll definitely be back for the Halloween update. You know that one is gonna be good.
Agreed with the OP.
Just to add a bit, I think that one of the biggest mistakes Funcom made with TSW was placing such a strong emphasis on combat. The focus should have been more on investigation type missions and combat should have been rare but memorable, kind of like in a horror game.
From the get go, Funcom set out to make TSW a thinking man's game but there just isn't enough emphasis on thinking, in my opinion.
Edit: to clarify, I'm talking about PvE combat.
Very true heartless. As an example, just imagine how much excitement would have been lost from Amnesia: The Darkest Decent if you had a weapon. Survival Horror needs this sort of element, otherwise it becomes Doom 3, where its not even scary once you are halfway through the game, it just becomes the same old shooter.
I agree that PvP could be made more meaningfull, though I still think it's awesome when there's 25+ on my team in Fusang. I also agree that they have to add more "thinking quests" to the game, and improve some social features.
I don't agree that the majority of the players already reached the end game. I think you're speaking of a very small group of hardcore folks here. I also think that a large group of people prefer to pay their monthly sub instead of buying content and p2win items all the time in "ftp-games".
I basically agree in some of your other points, but I think you are over-dramatizing a bit when you call them "large problems" and that "Funcom totally blew it". I'm not a hardcore who rush through the game myself, so maybe that's where the difference between our opinion is
I just couldnt get into this game , maybe Im MMO burnt out .
But I basically bought a game which I only played for a week and have absolutely no incentive to even log in to play .
I think I really just need an MMO that is so amazing it will blow me away , Im thinking ArchAge might be the one .
The first thing I saw 4 weeks ago upon reaching Agartha was massive spam for end game content. Which was a shock considering how new the game was. Something I've never seen before in a fresh MMO, not even Rift or SW:TOR had that level of hardcore in such a very short space of time after release. The chat was scrolling that fast with "LFG NM..." etc that the only way was to switch off the LFG channel just to see what else was being said.
The alarm bells rang very loud at that moment, since I'd just bought the game and now it seemed I was already well behind the curve and I'm not a rush to finish player by a long chalk. And looking around at all the people in Agartha it seemed as if I'd arrived 6 months too late going by their gear compared to a typical MMO.
Maybe the majority have not reached end game, but going from my own experience a very significant amount have, and that was of just over four weeks ago. It is most likely worse now.
Currently Playing: GW2
Retired: Shadowbane, DAoC, WoW, FFXI, Eve Online, SWToR
The Aphelion MMO Blog - GW2 Initial Impressions
Can you name one AAA sandbox game that has been released in the past 5 years?
Before TSW was released, I thought it would be full of investigation missions. Funcom made it sound like they'd be a major feature of this game, so I thought there'd be dozens of them. Too bad that wasn't the case. It's pretty disappointing, considering how different they are from normal MMO quests.
I agree with all of your points. This game desperately needs more sandbox aspects to it. I'm not a themepark fan though. I am awaiting The Repopulation as you are.
The only quick fix that Funcom can throw together is a big open zone for pvp and housing/cities. The crafting system is horrible, only slightly better than TORs. That should get a revamp, but since the system in place is so simplified, I don't see it happening because it would take entirely too long and I'm not sure they see an issue with it.
100% combat themeparks are doomed for failure. I play TSW, I enjoy it, but I see a brick wall in front of me.
Waiting on: The Repopulation
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Hm, why then only gear matters? TRY using any build with 800 AR vs someone in 10.x purples with 3000+ AR.
This is a fundamental design flaw in TSW pvp concept. All they talk is about builds without even having a leveld playing field. Not having higher skill tiers unlocked as low(er) "level" (QL) is one thing but getting one shot is a entirely different, and then you don't have a choice who you face unlike even bad PVP systems like in swtor / WoW. No real brackets.
(And putting someone with ql8 green / blues into the purple 10.1, 2 .3 bracket is as putting a level 40 against a T3 full geared lvl50.)
And why no brackets? Because else there would be too few people, because someone still thinks cross-server pvp is bad.
So you have a system where you are slaughtered constantly because just of gear. Maybe, and just maybe if you bother enough to "farm" tokens or PVE you maybe end up in the upper tier place where gear does not matter that much, (but still 2000 hp AND 500 AR / healing more at the same time is a huge difference).
Low Populations, no (thought out) brackets, gear over build presence.
That's a three wagon failtrain in PVP concept.
And i'm not even bothering to go into the unbalanced broken build system (hey everyone can no go fotm) doesn't help when there is no healthy "build" system if one (three) dominate every other combo 1vs1)
As for the PVE Part, i agree with the OP. We need "alive" systems or more story content.
For understanding this, you need players, people who played mmos for a long time, different mmos.
Funcom does not get it, like almost every other competitor out there. They look around, see "standard" instanced pvp, raids, instances and then try to make them work in their game. Just adding them bluntly.
Not realizing there is more to it than just copying an idea in order to make it work.
Having said that, i love the story implementation, the npcs, they voice acting. However they really should have gone with their initial idea of open world pvp, or more open world instead to trying to copy the WoW (AoC) formular.
This is basically the issue. Without tiering the system is broken. It's a bit like SWTOR was before they implemented the level 50 tier, which should have been multiple tiers 1-10, 11-25 etc right from day one IMO. Now however, too many people 1 month in (in TSW) have their purples and will always wipe the floor with the rest.
There are brackets! I've been spending most of the last month in Fusang having tons of fun with ql 5-6 blues and some greens and 800 AR and it felt fairly balanced because of the balancing buff. All this is based on a massive misunderstanding - atleast when it comes to Fusang. I don't know all of the details, but the the brackets seems to be based on what skill level and gear you have and buffs you accordingly.
Great post, OP. You might be interested in this thread on the TSW forums. It's gotten long-ish but the dev reply is interesting and sparky.
To some of the others, TSW is a PvE game. It has some PvP and it sounds like it's pretty fun for some folks (I haven't done any). But it was always intended to be PvE and it's not going to become an open world PvP game.
I love the game, but it is in desparate need of emergent style gameplay systems. PvP is obviously in need of work - no game has matched the experience that PvP can offer when done right ala DAoC.
Some take on Rift's rift system, Rift's instant adventure system or GW2 dynamic events would be most welcome. It would be cool if Big Bad's would regularly and unexpectedly threaten the various play zones. If the Big Bad isn't supressed there should be dire consequences.
Funcom has already made a game that is incredibly fun and rewarding to experience. But the game needs something to keep it interesting.
FFXI had one of the more interesting housing systems. Based on your decor, you would enhance your character in very subtle ways. It was a nice play on creating something that was "cool" vs creating something to "min/max". I could see cabal/player housing (apartments/bat caves/hideouts) go in that direction.
Or even some system where players can create their own missions. You could "invest" AP or currency to create a mission using various conditions. The harder the mission, the more ap/currency required. If a player is able to successfully accomplish your mission, you and the player both gain some pretty cool rewards (rare materials, clothing pieces, tokens, etc..)
They need systems that provide cabals goals to achieve. They need a variety of activities that fit within the setting but also bring players together.