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PC Upgrade question
Hullabaloo
Member Posts: 6
in Guild Wars 2
Hey just looking for some input I am planning on upgrading my current system and I am just
wondering which would have the bigger impact on performance.
Current Specs:
500W PSU
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0 Ghz
4GB ram
Nvidia Geforce 250 GTS
I am going to upgrade everything eventually but would it be worth going with the Nvidia
Geforce 560ti first or the Intel Core i5 3570k with a new mobo/ ram.
Also if anyone has a GPU suggestion for better performance for around the same price range please let me know.
Thanks
wondering which would have the bigger impact on performance.
Current Specs:
500W PSU
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0 Ghz
4GB ram
Nvidia Geforce 250 GTS
I am going to upgrade everything eventually but would it be worth going with the Nvidia
Geforce 560ti first or the Intel Core i5 3570k with a new mobo/ ram.
Also if anyone has a GPU suggestion for better performance for around the same price range please let me know.
Thanks
Comments
If you go after the nvidia 560 you will prob need to upgrade that power supply as well. Either upgrade will show a decent improvement-
i would change my PSU for at least 750w -800w
and maybe put 6GB -8GB RAM 6 would be enouf,
~The only opinion that matters is your own.Everything else is just advice,~
I don't understand why you would go with this gen CPU and an old last gen GPU?
in the price range within $50, $250 - $300 which includeds the GTX 560 Ti here are some comparisons:
Gaming Benchmarks showing the 560 ti and the 7870:
560 ti and HD7870 benchmarks
Gaming Benchmarks showing the 660 ti:
GTX 660 ti benchmarks
as you can see for the price range the GTX 660 ti out performs in games over the last gen 560 ti and its equivalent priced 7870.
Also Ivy Bridge allows you to use the Gen 3 PCI-Ex 3.0 slots with the 660 ti and 7870 when the 560 ti does not.
The 660 ti out performs and uses less power so your system wont need more then a 600w power supply total unless you plan on SLI in the future then maybe a 750w to future proof it for that.
8 gigs of ram is more then enough at 1600ghz.
so I hope that helps.
GTX 660 ti prices: 660 ti Prices
IamApropos
See where adventure will lead you!
My PC Specs:
i5-3570k oc'ed @4.2GHz
8GB 1600 RAM
GTX670 oc'ed @ 1.25Ghz
Samsung 830 SSD.
Upgrade GPU first, it's easy and you will get big boost in performance. If you're RAM is DDR3 than upgrade it after GPU. Think about upgrading CPU only when you're not happy with your performance and you start to experience some serious bottlenecking.
500 W PSU should be just enough for 560 Ti (it is perfectly fine with HD5770 for me). Here is comparision of power usage for various GPUs: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2011/01/25/nvidia-geforce-gtx-560-ti-1gb-review/8
Be sure that it is a high quality PSU, from a known and trusted manufacturer, though. It is very important. If you have the money, want to be 100% safe and prepare for more updates in the future, you may as well upgrade to 600 W or more.
CPU: TThis should be your #1 upgrade because your video card is either bottlenecking or close to it. Move into a Quad core I-5 2500k or I-5 3570k first. Either one does extremely well if you are going to overclock it to be faster ( thats what the k means ). If you plan to leave it stock then go with the I-5 3570. With this you are going to also need a new motherboard and some memory.
Motherboard: Unless you are overclocking it really does not make a huge impact. If you are overclocking there is a couple good boards out there. One is the Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H, with this one you will have everything you need and more. There is a UD5 model, but this is more expensive and you will not make use of anything extra it has to offer under your circumstances. I am a avid gamer and I was having trouble coming up with reasons to justify the cost of payign for the UD5.
Memory: The perfect amount of memory right now is to have 2 sticks that are 4 Gig each which gives you a total of 8. Make sure the memory matches your motherboard with the manufacturers online site. Unless you are number crunching or encoding video's memory speed will not make much of a difference. If you go with the I-5 3570k you overclock the multiplier not the FSB going to the memory. If you put in a single 8 Gig stick you lose the speed of running duel channel, if you put in 2 sticks of 8 gig then you are losing speed because of looser timings...ect..
Video Card: After the CPU you should upgrade yoru video card (preferably at the same time) . If you go Nvidia try to make sure you get the GTX models. GTX models make a huge difference. The 400 series GTX would give you a noticable improvement, but if your serious you need the 570 GTX or better.
Your power supply is hard to tell you when you need to upgrade. You need to make sure the power supply you are using can meet the power requiremtns of the other parts in your system. Your video card usually has the highest requirement.
By the time you are buying a new motherboard and processor .. you are completely upgrading your pc.
DDR3 ram is as cheap as donkey piss in Romania and you can pick up a perfectly servieable graphics card for $75 second hand.
A power supply can be had for peanuts and you simply dont NEED a expensive high/medium power supply it isnt as though a $30 one is going to blow up your house. It might die in a year or so or use slightly more power but ti has to be fit for purpose.
Thanks for the response so from what I have seen I think I will go with the i5 CPU/mobo/ram etc... first.
I am still on the fence about what video card to buy... I have used Nvidia cards for over 10 years since my Quake 2 days and I have never had a problem. I have always read about ATI's compatibility problems with some games so that has always pushed me away from them.
If the 7850 is actually more bang for my buck than the 560Ti I might just be swayed to try ATI but I still need some more research. I am actually looking to push the price down towards 200-250 rather than 300$ which is why I dont want to go for the 660.
So any info on those cards would be helpful.
Thanks again.
Do you even read your own links? They've got a GeForce GTX 660 Ti roughly even with a Radeon HD 7870, and the latter is cheaper. Other reviews were a little more favorable to the GTX 660 Ti, but typically found it between a Radeon HD 7870 and 7950 both in price and performance.
What's with the sudden rash of GTX 660 Ti recommendations? It's as though a bunch of people decided months ago that it was the card to get, and never mind the specs, performance, or price tag. It's not a bad choice for someone with a $300 budget looking to put together a single monitor system, but it's not really a better choice than a Radeon HD 7870 or 7950, either.
Very few gaming machines have any plausible use for a power supply over 650 W.
But it's not just the nominal wattage that matters. It's the quality of the power supply, too. Speaking of which, for the original poster, what power supply do you have? Just saying 500 W isn't that much more helpful than saying what color it is (which is obviously useless), as nominal wattages are a marketing number rather than an engineering one for many companies.
As for memory, your amount of system memory should be a power of 2. 6 GB is only for Bloomfield systems that were obsolete two years ago or OEM systems that are solely marketed to idiots.
You can get a $75 video card, but it will be a downgrade from his current one.
The trouble with a $30 power supply isn't the risk that it will die in a year. It's the risk that, when it dies, it will take other hardware with it. A $30 power supply that fries $1000 in other hardware isn't cheap.
My current PSU is actually 450Watts its a Thermaltake Black Widow I believe is the brand name.
with the PS you also have to look at the 12V rail current not just the watts the 560TI need a +12V rail current of 38A so even if you have a 750W PS and the rail current is only say 25A the card will not do well.
also some if the PS as more the one rail the town also have to come to 38A total exp +12V1 20A +12V2 20A then total is 40A you will be ok.
I'm no expert but I went with research I found, absolutely no reason to be condescending... period... misinformed maybe Iam but still a lot better then the other advice given.
yes the 660 ti out performed the 560 ti and the 7870 so my advice wasn't wrong. am I all for it no, but if he wants to upgrade don't go backwards.
and yes I did read my linked reviews... Got any other links or just flat out your opinions? because I provided links not just condescending remarks, tyvm... I atleast provided some reasearch and advice you just came and made everyone who tried to help look bad.
also here is another link to check benchmarks:
GPU Benchmarks
IamApropos
See where adventure will lead you!
My PC Specs:
i5-3570k oc'ed @4.2GHz
8GB 1600 RAM
GTX670 oc'ed @ 1.25Ghz
Samsung 830 SSD.
#1 is the CPU. At this point, even if you get a new GPU, it will be bottlenecked by the poor processing power. Make sure that your motherboard is able to run whatever CPU you get (as you seem to have noted).
Then I would try the GPU; if it turns out you don't have enough juice, then you may have to upgrade the powersupply.
If you have a 32 bit operating system, you don't need to touch the ram as it only uses about 4GB. If you have a 64bit system 8GBs (1333 or 1600) is usually enough, though some go up to 16GB at times. More ram usually means that you are able to use more mods with some games; when it comes to MMOs, it also helps with all the player characters on screen (though I can't imagine it needed more than 4GB on an optimized MMO).
You should probably replace the power supply, too, then. The Thermaltake Black Widow power supplies seem to mean either their TR2 line or some subset of it (possibly with an RX). At least some of the power supplies in that line are junk, and it's quite possible that all of them are. In any case, you don't want to push anywhere near the rated wattage on an iffy power supply, and a GeForce GTX 560 Ti will use a lot more power than your current card.
A Radeon HD 7850 will perform a little better than a GTX 560 Ti, while using a lot less power, but that will still use more power than your current card.
As I said on your other thread, you should be thinking about replacing your current computer entirely rather than upgrading it. Doing a proper upgrade would entail replacing nearly everything anyway, and it should be worth something if you sell it intact. If you don't have the money to replace the computer, then I'd keep running your current one a while longer until you can save up the money.
I wouldn't call myself an expert, but rather an enthusiast. If an expert would claim otherwise, then I'd listen to him as a potential buyer trying to save money.
Though I do have the ability to try new hardware as it comes out, test in in about seven different computer builds and even acquire multiples to test SLI and Crossfire with different computer setup rather than relying on computer tech websites show me results and just believe them.
Granted though, those are with limited sets and not massive research that would consist of testing at least 20 of the same product to see if they all performed in the same manner and it wasn't one in particular behaving as such.
What I've noticed from the current generation of GPUs is that they show a concisive lower output on my duo core machines than on my more advanced compositions. In one rare circumstance I even had a 3930 with a crappy video card outperform a 2500 with a better one in the unoptimized Guild Wars 2. Though for the most part, intel's new cores seem to cap with it's mid generation of quad cores on graphically intensive programs, especially with the demanding MMOs of today. Now, this does not mean that a duo core cannot use the power of a GPU to a playble extent, though I'm just going on FPS and general multi-monitor setups.
There may also be cases where I am just reading too far into it (or giving the processing power too much/too little credit) and the real problems may be something else with the systems in question.
Synthetic benchmarks completely unrelated to any game are only useful if you have absolutely no clue how a video card should perform and aren't savvy enough to read the specs. If you don't know whether card A should be about as fast as card B, or three times as fast, or ten times as fast, a synthetic benchmark will point you in the right general direction.
But if you want to know whether card A is about as fast as card B, or 50% faster, then synthetics are useless. You need real game benchmarks for that. Look at their list: they've got a GeForce GTX 670 beating a GTX 680. They've got a Radeon HD 7970M beating a 7870, even though the former is just a lower clocked version of the latter. They've got a GeForce GTX 580 barely trailing a GTX 680 and Radeon HD 7970, even though there may or may not be any real games at all where it doesn't get completely crushed by either card--and it will usually lose badly to both.
As for a GeForce GTX 660 Ti outperforming a GTX 560 Ti, what does that have to do with anything? Is it really surprising that a $300 card is faster than a $200 card? If you're going to ignore the price tag, then why not grab a Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition for $460? That's a lot faster yet.
If you're price range for the GPU lies around the cost of a 560 ti I'd go for an AMD HD6870. It's less expensive then the 560ti and performs almost just as fast(maybe 5% difference at most, check benchmarks). Even though the 7xxx series is out, you wont miss out on the 6xxx series in terms of technology. The only thing the 7xxx cards do that the 6xxx series cards cant is use less power.
Your CPU will definately bottleneck any mid-range card you'd buy now. I woulndt upgrade your GPU unless you can afford a CPU/mobo upgrade as well. If you can't afford it buy nothing. A faster GPU will be bottlenecked by that dual core and an i3 with your same GPU wont give you that much more fps in games. Maybe a little in CPU dependant games but not enough to justify the purchase.
Short version: upgrade both cpu and gpu or upgrade nothing; 1 upgrade wont give you the performance you'd want.
Alright thanks everyone I am going to order my CPU stuff first mobo/ram/psu etc.
Just one more question I am really on the fence as to which video card the 560ti or the 6870 I am really leaning towards the 6870 because of the price and the research I did but I would like a few opinions.
PSU will not be a problem and I usually run my Resolution at 1680x1050(maxed out) in windows -- In game I always set it to 1980x1080? I think... maybe thats not a good choice, i have never looked into it I always just maxed the in game option.
Will I miss out on Physx or any of that Nvidia stuff by going with ATI.
Will I get close the same performance with the 6870 or should I spend the extra ~$100 for the Nvidia 560ti?
Go for 6xx Nvidia cards due to TXAA
What you have right now is a decent enough gaming computer that doesn't look like it's in dire need of replacement. But the parts are balanced enough that if you upgrade one thing expecting better performance, you'll just immediately be held back by another. To do a proper upgrade, you'll need to replace nearly everything, so you might as well just wait until you have the budget to do it all at once rather than piecemeal.
A GeForce GTX 560 Ti is typically about 20% faster than a Radeon HD 6870, which is, in turn, about double the performance of your current GeForce GTS 250. The gap in power consumption is much wider than in performance, however, as the Fermi architecture was horribly inefficient.
GPU PhysX is a stupid gimmick. The only time games ever implement it at all is when Nvidia pays them to. Naturally, Nvidia can't pay for most games to be programmed, which is why only a token few games can be bothered to do so.
You really have the exact same setup? It's not even possible to know that unless you know the original poster from elsewhere, as he hasn't posted the details of most of his rig. Why not post what you have, and we can have a look at it? List the case and everything that goes inside it, not just two or three things that you think are the "main" specs.
Or you could even go to the hardware section and start your own thread.