Originally posted by ScalplessOh my. If I paid over 100$ for this game still didn't get the additional planet for free, I'd be pissed. I know they don't have much money at the moment, but pissing off their few remaining fans doesn't sound like a smart thing to do.
You get tons of those Cartel Coins, if you have the CE.However, I still don't get it why don't they go with the LOTRO model, which seems is a pretty neat freemium model in my opinion.
I mean a normal box price + almost a year's worth of subs. People expect to get something for their sub and rightfully so. "We use it to pay for servers" doesn't really cut it nowadays.
You get tons of cartel coins if you have the CE AND/OR if you have been a subscriber, so anyone thats spent $100 or more will definitely be getting a fair bit.
"tons of", yeah? so how do you end up with that statement? Bioware doesn't even know their prices yet.
Oh let me get it, it's "tons of" because it's a high number. (And ignore the fact that prices could be even a bigger number)
Oh I completely agree the amount of coins players get might not be worth much relative to the price of items, but people that have paid money for the game definitely do get something
Sub and box (standard) from launch to November (with 2 free months) is $210.
Sub money paid for the "catch up " items such as customizable UI, LFG, etc.
Subs paid for conversion of the game to FTP.
Subs paid for 1 paltry content patch of 1 WZ, 1 OP.
BW says subs will get "full access to game" whereas FTP won't.
First real content patch, BW says the subscribers "may" have to pay for it.
A game which promised monthly content updates in one year gave 1 tiny update.
Now when they finally might have something more substantive, BW/EA is looking to double dip.
It's easy to see why a subscriber may be uppset. Especially if the new content is the same price for the FTP'ers you didn't have to pay for the box.
I think the comparison to LOTRO isn't apt because LOTRO put out 15 major content updates before going FTP. LOTRO also grandfathered in a lot of perks for former subscribers wheras SWTOR doesn't seem like it is going that route.
I only see a lot of if, maybe, possibly based on a rumor. But someone is right; we don't know anything about prices yet. We can think that based on previous experiences it will be expensive/cheap. My experience says the conversion will be 1 carter coin = 10¢. So old subscribers get 10 dollars a month. But I don't pretend to know if 100 carter coins will allow to buy a pet, a mount or a full planet
Originally posted by ScalplessOh my. If I paid over 100$ for this game still didn't get the additional planet for free, I'd be pissed. I know they don't have much money at the moment, but pissing off their few remaining fans doesn't sound like a smart thing to do.
You get tons of those Cartel Coins, if you have the CE.However, I still don't get it why don't they go with the LOTRO model, which seems is a pretty neat freemium model in my opinion.
I mean a normal box price + almost a year's worth of subs. People expect to get something for their sub and rightfully so. "We use it to pay for servers" doesn't really cut it nowadays.
You get tons of cartel coins if you have the CE AND/OR if you have been a subscriber, so anyone thats spent $100 or more will definitely be getting a fair bit.
"tons of", yeah? so how do you end up with that statement? Bioware doesn't even know their prices yet.
Oh let me get it, it's "tons of" because it's a high number. (And ignore the fact that prices could be even a bigger number)
Oh I completely agree the amount of coins players get might not be worth much relative to the price of items, but people that have paid money for the game definitely do get something
I suppose that's true. Still, it doesn't feel right. Feels like a rip-off. TOR is far from the best MMO out there and I just can't justify paying a sub for it without getting everything automatically. Comparing this crap to TSW's monthly updates, Rift's updates or GW2's B2P model (supposedly with regular content updates) makes TOR look really, really bad.
If they charge for Makeb it'll likely be 3, maybe 5 bucks. Comparing it to a full-blown expansion like WotLK is assasinine.
A smart move by BW would be to allow the use of their cartel coins for an unlock.
I wonder if they will keep F2P at level 50, while everybody else can go to 55. Would make this a bit P2W, but since it only matters for PvP really and you can't get into ePeen-measuring, I mean: ranked WZs as F2P, it probably a non-issue.
Maybe they will allow F2P to go to 55 as well, but without new content on Makeb you are stuck doing lvl50 content, which will still give you XP, but at much slower rates as you climb the levels. Ugh!
Are the people still playing this game actually upset over this? I was under the impression that most of the remaining subscribers represented Bioware's core audience, who have thus far gladly supported (nearly) every decision Bioware has made concerning the game.
There are extreme real world analogies demonstrating our need to save people from themselves, but in almost every case, those people don't want to be saved. I feel like that's the point we're at with the remaining TOR community.
IOW, there's no need to feel bad for them... if this is the direction Bioware wants to go, that's all TOR fans want.
Originally posted by Scalpless Oh my. If I paid over 100$ for this game still didn't get the additional planet for free, I'd be pissed. I know they don't have much money at the moment, but pissing off their few remaining fans doesn't sound like a smart thing to do.
You get tons of those Cartel Coins, if you have the CE.
However, I still don't get it why don't they go with the LOTRO model, which seems is a pretty neat freemium model in my opinion.
I mean a normal box price + almost a year's worth of subs. People expect to get something for their sub and rightfully so. "We use it to pay for servers" doesn't really cut it nowadays.
They will give subbers access to ops and PvP. Something non subbers can't get.
They don't appear to have a model like LOTRO at all. You can't just pick and choose what to unlock with a one time fee. They see F2P simply as a way to get more people to try the game, with a certain % of them subscribing. I don't see that working very well in the long run.
I can definitely see them charging everyone, including subscribers, for Makeb.
Also, people keep mistaking F2P for a really free game like LoL and Aion.
Desperate companites use F2P to try to sell their game .. but their usage of F2P is blasphemy.
Real F2P can be fun, playing with friends who just joined. EA F2P involving limitations and gimps, preventing friends from playing together is horrid (SWTOR).
Freemiun (like SWTOR will be) is a cesspool to gamers :P
Sefenstar61, I appreciate your attempt to bring SWTOR to the video scene in your other threads.
But if you read post #2 it is not a rumor. Jeff Hickman said what he said, it may or may not go to costs for subscribers .. and the mere speculation is disgusting. The fact that EA higher-ups even considered this to the public ...
Jeff Hickman is the SWTOR Executive Producer.
Last time they weren't sure of anything was whether they would go F2P. They denied the "rumors", and then guess what .. F2P!
Although it's really a limited F2P .. more of a freemium. A F2P as EA uses it is a disgrace to the actual meaning of F2P. Agree or defend EA as you will, but offering F2P with limited inventory, bank, global chats, dungeons (FP), limited GTN (AH), no mounts (vehicles), no mail, no operations (raids) is simply one hell of a gimped F2P (freemium).
From what I've read, Makeb has been in the making for the past 8-9 months, so yeah I think it already costed them dollars. Going F2P is a gamble, are people still gonna stick around, the F2P restrictions blows so in order to keep playing the game, you'd have to subscribe so the reason for F2P is just to let those that drop in once in a while to play the game a little. As F2P you won't be able to do operations (where a majority of your good pve gear comes from), and only run 10 warzones a week (which suck if you have a fresh 50 that needs Battlemaster gear), so you're basically left with a level 1-50 free game but at 50 it's where the restiction kicks in.
Originally posted by Karteli Although it's really a limited F2P .. more of a freemium. A F2P as EA uses it is a disgrace to the actual meaning of F2P. Agree or defend EA as you will, but offering F2P with limited inventory, bank, global chats, dungeons (FP), limited GTN (AH), no mounts (vehicles), no mail, no operations (raids) is simply one hell of a gimped F2P (freemium). Like hell this game is Truly F2P.
Did they list about no mounts and no mail? That's a load of crap if they're taking those out for F2P.
Although it's really a limited F2P .. more of a freemium. A F2P as EA uses it is a disgrace to the actual meaning of F2P. Agree or defend EA as you will, but offering F2P with limited inventory, bank, global chats, dungeons (FP), limited GTN (AH), no mounts (vehicles), no mail, no operations (raids) is simply one hell of a gimped F2P (freemium).
Like hell this game is Truly F2P.
Did they list about no mounts and no mail? That's a load of crap if they're taking those out for F2P.
no mail also means no gallictic trade market as that is how your items and your credits are sent, through the mail system, that is one hell of a lockout.
Although it's really a limited F2P .. more of a freemium. A F2P as EA uses it is a disgrace to the actual meaning of F2P. Agree or defend EA as you will, but offering F2P with limited inventory, bank, global chats, dungeons (FP), limited GTN (AH), no mounts (vehicles), no mail, no operations (raids) is simply one hell of a gimped F2P (freemium).
Like hell this game is Truly F2P.
Did they list about no mounts and no mail? That's a load of crap if they're taking those out for F2P.
They've been vague as to what "limited" means, but they are implementing travel and mail restrictins to the FTP accounts.
My feeling is that if they make Makeb free they are serious about trying to recover somewhat with the F2P option. If they charge for it, even for subscribers, they are about to cancel the game and just try to cut their losses slightly.
To be fair, it is possible that the "limited" restriction on mail for FTP players is probably that they can receive but not send mail. This would be to deter gold farmers. I guess credit farmers would be a better term.
FTP players will be able to list 50 items on the Galactic Trade Network a month.
As to the travel restrictions, well balls. This would fall under the stick catefory in the carrot and stick efforts to get people to subscribe. Will they sell some sort of "travel-pass" microtransaction to lift this, I dunno. My guess is FTP players won't be able to use the taxis. No mounts seems too Draconian.
Of course, everything is mostly speculation. BW is being tight lipped on what the grand and glorious "Fall" will look like.
The fact that they are still looking to hire someone to head the game's "monetization" efforts could be interpeted as both the overhaul will focus on micro-transaction creation and that Bioware is not keeping pace with the switch to micro-transaction. (And thus why November has become Fall has become probably Fall.)
Maybe they were counting on subs buying Makeb and market research indicates that plan would be suicide and they are rethinking their new FTP revenue streams. Who knows?
It's all speculation about the future. The one thing I know is that since the anouncement, they are still bleeding subs which hasn't been helped by the FTP announcement or the lack of newly released content. Apparently Guild Wars 2 is starting to put a bit of a hurt on them. It's early, but they just hit their lowest X-Fire numbers.
I guess we shall see what we shall see when it gets here.
One of the biggest problems with F2P is that F2P needs lots of people if <<insert game here>> is going to make money. And that has two big problems: churn and marketing costs.
And it is known - from Zynga's reports, recent discussions about what Facebook charges for ads etc etc - that this costs lots of money.
I am sure that on day 1 EA will talk about how many people have signed up on day 1 .... that is the easy part; maybe less so for SWTOR as people who have played through the story lines may not come back ... the problem is getting people on day 20, day 50, day ..... and getting them to spend money.
Comments
Oh I completely agree the amount of coins players get might not be worth much relative to the price of items, but people that have paid money for the game definitely do get something
With that i can absolutly agree
The gripe of a ToR subber in a nutshell:
Sub and box (standard) from launch to November (with 2 free months) is $210.
Sub money paid for the "catch up " items such as customizable UI, LFG, etc.
Subs paid for conversion of the game to FTP.
Subs paid for 1 paltry content patch of 1 WZ, 1 OP.
BW says subs will get "full access to game" whereas FTP won't.
First real content patch, BW says the subscribers "may" have to pay for it.
A game which promised monthly content updates in one year gave 1 tiny update.
Now when they finally might have something more substantive, BW/EA is looking to double dip.
It's easy to see why a subscriber may be uppset. Especially if the new content is the same price for the FTP'ers you didn't have to pay for the box.
I think the comparison to LOTRO isn't apt because LOTRO put out 15 major content updates before going FTP. LOTRO also grandfathered in a lot of perks for former subscribers wheras SWTOR doesn't seem like it is going that route.
But someone is right; we don't know anything about prices yet. We can think that based on previous experiences it will be expensive/cheap.
My experience says the conversion will be 1 carter coin = 10¢.
So old subscribers get 10 dollars a month.
But I don't pretend to know if 100 carter coins will allow to buy a pet, a mount or a full planet
I suppose that's true. Still, it doesn't feel right. Feels like a rip-off. TOR is far from the best MMO out there and I just can't justify paying a sub for it without getting everything automatically. Comparing this crap to TSW's monthly updates, Rift's updates or GW2's B2P model (supposedly with regular content updates) makes TOR look really, really bad.
If they charge for Makeb it'll likely be 3, maybe 5 bucks. Comparing it to a full-blown expansion like WotLK is assasinine.
A smart move by BW would be to allow the use of their cartel coins for an unlock.
I wonder if they will keep F2P at level 50, while everybody else can go to 55. Would make this a bit P2W, but since it only matters for PvP really and you can't get into ePeen-measuring, I mean: ranked WZs as F2P, it probably a non-issue.
Maybe they will allow F2P to go to 55 as well, but without new content on Makeb you are stuck doing lvl50 content, which will still give you XP, but at much slower rates as you climb the levels. Ugh!
Are the people still playing this game actually upset over this? I was under the impression that most of the remaining subscribers represented Bioware's core audience, who have thus far gladly supported (nearly) every decision Bioware has made concerning the game.
There are extreme real world analogies demonstrating our need to save people from themselves, but in almost every case, those people don't want to be saved. I feel like that's the point we're at with the remaining TOR community.
IOW, there's no need to feel bad for them... if this is the direction Bioware wants to go, that's all TOR fans want.
I'm telling ya, you likely won't be able to advance past 50 as F2P, they will make it so that you'd have to sub to get into Mekab.
They will give subbers access to ops and PvP. Something non subbers can't get.
They don't appear to have a model like LOTRO at all. You can't just pick and choose what to unlock with a one time fee. They see F2P simply as a way to get more people to try the game, with a certain % of them subscribing. I don't see that working very well in the long run.
I can definitely see them charging everyone, including subscribers, for Makeb.
Amazing is it not?
Also, people keep mistaking F2P for a really free game like LoL and Aion.
Desperate companites use F2P to try to sell their game .. but their usage of F2P is blasphemy.
Real F2P can be fun, playing with friends who just joined. EA F2P involving limitations and gimps, preventing friends from playing together is horrid (SWTOR).
Freemiun (like SWTOR will be) is a cesspool to gamers :P
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
As a title of thread says - it's a rumor.
Why rage over something that might not happen?
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
Sefenstar61, I appreciate your attempt to bring SWTOR to the video scene in your other threads.
But if you read post #2 it is not a rumor. Jeff Hickman said what he said, it may or may not go to costs for subscribers .. and the mere speculation is disgusting. The fact that EA higher-ups even considered this to the public ...
Jeff Hickman is the SWTOR Executive Producer.
Last time they weren't sure of anything was whether they would go F2P. They denied the "rumors", and then guess what .. F2P!
Although it's really a limited F2P .. more of a freemium. A F2P as EA uses it is a disgrace to the actual meaning of F2P. Agree or defend EA as you will, but offering F2P with limited inventory, bank, global chats, dungeons (FP), limited GTN (AH), no mounts (vehicles), no mail, no operations (raids) is simply one hell of a gimped F2P (freemium).
Like hell this game is Truly F2P.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
I watched entire interview with him. It's not decided yet. I am not saying it won't happen, but right now it's not set in stone.
/shrug
Edit: Sometimes it feels like if you really like this game is to be crucified. To love it - brings only hatred.
Edit 2: And yes I bring some funny stuff... this site needs some balance to all the hate. I will keep trying to bring some love.
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
I can only say .. Continue!
(But submit your own videos, not someone elses. Those "other" videos stink.)
This game needs as much love as possible. Even though I won't pay for it
Carry on!
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
From what I've read, Makeb has been in the making for the past 8-9 months, so yeah I think it already costed them dollars. Going F2P is a gamble, are people still gonna stick around, the F2P restrictions blows so in order to keep playing the game, you'd have to subscribe so the reason for F2P is just to let those that drop in once in a while to play the game a little. As F2P you won't be able to do operations (where a majority of your good pve gear comes from), and only run 10 warzones a week (which suck if you have a fresh 50 that needs Battlemaster gear), so you're basically left with a level 1-50 free game but at 50 it's where the restiction kicks in.
no mail also means no gallictic trade market as that is how your items and your credits are sent, through the mail system, that is one hell of a lockout.
They've been vague as to what "limited" means, but they are implementing travel and mail restrictins to the FTP accounts.
http://www.swtor.com/free/features
To be fair, it is possible that the "limited" restriction on mail for FTP players is probably that they can receive but not send mail. This would be to deter gold farmers. I guess credit farmers would be a better term.
FTP players will be able to list 50 items on the Galactic Trade Network a month.
As to the travel restrictions, well balls. This would fall under the stick catefory in the carrot and stick efforts to get people to subscribe. Will they sell some sort of "travel-pass" microtransaction to lift this, I dunno. My guess is FTP players won't be able to use the taxis. No mounts seems too Draconian.
Of course, everything is mostly speculation. BW is being tight lipped on what the grand and glorious "Fall" will look like.
The fact that they are still looking to hire someone to head the game's "monetization" efforts could be interpeted as both the overhaul will focus on micro-transaction creation and that Bioware is not keeping pace with the switch to micro-transaction. (And thus why November has become Fall has become probably Fall.)
Maybe they were counting on subs buying Makeb and market research indicates that plan would be suicide and they are rethinking their new FTP revenue streams. Who knows?
It's all speculation about the future. The one thing I know is that since the anouncement, they are still bleeding subs which hasn't been helped by the FTP announcement or the lack of newly released content. Apparently Guild Wars 2 is starting to put a bit of a hurt on them. It's early, but they just hit their lowest X-Fire numbers.
I guess we shall see what we shall see when it gets here.
One of the biggest problems with F2P is that F2P needs lots of people if <<insert game here>> is going to make money. And that has two big problems: churn and marketing costs.
And it is known - from Zynga's reports, recent discussions about what Facebook charges for ads etc etc - that this costs lots of money.
I am sure that on day 1 EA will talk about how many people have signed up on day 1 .... that is the easy part; maybe less so for SWTOR as people who have played through the story lines may not come back ... the problem is getting people on day 20, day 50, day ..... and getting them to spend money.