I find kids are generally more open to modifying their behavior if it is out of line than adults. At least, that's been my experience. Sure, there are rough spots with kids, but it's nothing like the sort of trouble I've had with people who are 18+. Though, most folk in general seem fine.
I wouldn't want to be on an "adult" server. That just sounds like an excuse for a bunch of crude sexual humor, profanity, and horrific manners. Why is it that things that are for "adults" are not very mature at all? Anyhow, no thanks.
Blame it on the poor educational systems that don't teach kids proper spreadsheeting until at least high school, no wonder they don't take to EVE properly.
You've forgot to add in the excessive boredom factor at the start of EvE when you're dumped in the game with a ship and black screen and basically saying "off you go have fun", took me two trials to get over that until the penny dropped.
OT.
CCP just sent me 14 days free comback plz plz plz plz offer that I'm going to take up so check your email.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Blame it on the poor educational systems that don't teach kids proper spreadsheeting until at least high school, no wonder they don't take to EVE properly.
You've forgot to add in the excessive boredom factor at the start of EvE when you're dumped in the game with a ship and black screen and basically saying "off you go have fun", took me two trials to get over that until the penny dropped.
OT.
CCP just sent me 14 days free comback plz plz plz plz offer that I'm going to take up so check your email.
Oh just now...during GW2 release week? They must be desperate!
In the case of sub based MMO's that's a contract and I don't think minors are allowed to enter a contract. Basically what I'm saying is, we don't need kids in MMO's but contracts can be impossible to enforce sometimes.
Blame it on the poor educational systems that don't teach kids proper spreadsheeting until at least high school, no wonder they don't take to EVE properly.
You've forgot to add in the excessive boredom factor at the start of EvE when you're dumped in the game with a ship and black screen and basically saying "off you go have fun", took me two trials to get over that until the penny dropped.
OT.
CCP just sent me 14 days free comback plz plz plz plz offer that I'm going to take up so check your email.
Oh just now...during GW2 release week? They must be desperate!
Bwahahahahaha
/slinks back into troll cave....
Yeah how more obvious can you be, though how the hell did they know I was at a lose end this weekend?
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
The only brats and children i've dealt with are the overly macho punk controlling mysogonistic bigoted selfish men I've had to deal with over the years who happen to be older then age 18 but were never raised properly so they can't seem to control themselves. Or the very rare and occasional manipulative woman. It's not always the young as many of the young have very mature attitudes.
After talking socially with a few GMs once upon a time in an MMORPG, I came away with a differing insight OP. I once thought that for a medium with an average player age being in their thirties that so much of what occurred was outlandish, childish, anti-social, and frankly dumb. I questioned the age stats and was told per inside data it was accurate. The real problem was that many MMORPG players were considered to be amongst the most socially inept people and that they were freed from inhibitions by online anonymity. This was supposed to be the real issue they felt they were dealing with. Uninhibited social ineptitude... O.o
Originally posted by itgrowls The only brats and children i've dealt with are the overly macho punk controlling mysogonistic bigoted selfish men I've had to deal with over the years who happen to be older then age 18 but were never raised properly so they can't seem to control themselves. Or the very rare and occasional manipulative woman. It's not always the young as many of the young have very mature attitudes.
Adults seem more stuck in their ways and take a lot more offense if you ask them to change their behavior, in my experience.
The main trouble I've had with the ladies is that none of them will go out with me. No one loves Drachasor.
Actually, that's not true, I did date a girl I met in WoW who happened to live in the same city as me (oddly enough we had actually been on a date once before and met in WoW completely by chance). Didn't work out though. No one wants to work out with Drachasor. Hmm, but I should let that stop me from exercising.
A friend's son who played WOW was so young that he couldn't even read levels properly. No concept of two digit numbers. He used to challenge people to duels left and right. Then he'd say "I couldn't defeat him because, see, he's two-five and i'm one-nine! So it's natural."
The problem persists not only in games but in the review market too. To many young reviewers think everything is a diamond in the rough or just needs polish, but refuse to accept when a game is just bad.
I totally agree, I can't stand gaming with all these "young folks", you know, those people under the age of 35 or so, just not as much fun as speaking with people my own age.
While its true the barriers to entry have come down and far more young people are in MMO's these days, I'm finding the most obnoxious group of people to actually be in the 20-30 range, not sure what planet you folks were raised on, but I am totally beginning to understand the generation gap between us. (no offense)
But overall "children" if we are talking about folks under the age of 18 really haven't spoiled my enjoyment of MMO's that much, it's all of the rest of you I can't get along with.
I completely agree with you, it doesn't help that most people who play mmos are in the 20-30 range.
Originally posted by Crazy_Stick After talking socially with a few GMs once upon a time in an MMORPG, I came away with a differing insight OP. I once thought that for a medium with an average player age being in their thirties that so much of what occurred was outlandish, childish, anti-social, and frankly dumb. I questioned the age stats and was told per inside data it was accurate. The real problem was that many MMORPG players were considered to be amongst the most socially inept people and that they were freed from inhibitions by online anonymity. This was supposed to be the real issue they felt they were dealing with. Uninhibited social ineptitude... O.o
This is the issue entirely- when games required a modicum of social skills and actually had repercussions for bad behavior there was far less asshattery overall. Unfortunately systems that decreased that behavior was inconvenient for players (need for grouping to progress, needing other players for fast travel rather than NPCs) and costlier for Devs/Pubs (need for increased physical GM moderation to enforce the rules as issues come up rather than hours/days later- if ever).
For the sake of profit and convenience these are the communities we are left with...
I defiinitely do not think its an irl age thing. For one, "internet" and "gamer" age play more into how mature someone seems online. It's very easy to mistake someone's real age just by how they act online. Also, I think older gamers can be just as whiny and entitled as the next player, which is the attitude I do feel can make gaming unpleasant much moreso than simple inexperience. You know the type that always has to criticize and can never just sit back and have fun? The jaded and "discerning gaming elite" get all my sighs and eyerolls.
When MMOs were community driven, it sifted out most of the people who were not compatible with the game's community. The problem with this was that these games were more 'hard-core' oriented and never really catered to the casuals, but it taught people playing that they had to cooperate with others if they wanted to get things done in an MMO.
The more casual approach to the MMOs currently allows people to enjoy their games without having to spend ridiculous hours, but at the same time the quality of the communities, to me, has really hit rock bottom.
I've always lead big groups in MMOs and talking to children or adults has always been something to deal with. Explaining tactics, game mechanics and in game situations to both gives me what I enjoy the best. It doesn't take anything away from the socializing aspect for me, in fact it gives me variety. Just stay open and patient.
I'm surprised with a social strategy game like eRepulik there are as many high schoolers playing as there seems to be. I thought a game like this would cater to an older audience.
A friend's son who played WOW was so young that he couldn't even read levels properly. No concept of two digit numbers. He used to challenge people to duels left and right. Then he'd say "I couldn't defeat him because, see, he's two-five and i'm one-nine! So it's natural."
Smart Kid.
But on topic, ANYONE can be whiny and immature, regardless of age.
Maybe there are too many children in MMO's however there are also too many children at the Shopping Mall, at the convienence store and hanging around in the park. I wish they would go somewhere else. They bug me. And when I say children i mean everyone under the age of thirty because as I near fifty it occurs to me that people under thirty take themselves far to seriously.
I'd like to get the children out of the WalMart. I mean seriously you cant go in the WalMart with our hearing some kid screaming in the back corner of the store because his mother wouldent buy it a fifty dollar piece of third world crap that almost surely would require an emergency room visit down the line.
Children are a scurge that should be clensed with fire.
Refugee from UO,EQ,AC,AC2,AO,DAOC,L2,SB,HZ,CoH,PT,EQ2,WoW,VG,SWG,EVE,WAR,DF,MO,AI,GA,LOTRO, SWTOR... Gw2 on Deck
When I say children, I mean everyone under the age of thirty, because as I near fifty it occurs to me that people under thirty take themselves far too seriously.
Children are a scourge that should be cleansed with fire.
Remind me to bring a swiss army knife with me if I ever see you around. O_O
When I say children, I mean everyone under the age of thirty, because as I near fifty it occurs to me that people under thirty take themselves far too seriously.
Children are a scourge that should be cleansed with fire.
Remind me to bring a swiss army knife with me if I ever see you around. O_O
Last time I saw one of those it was a down and dirty vasectomy in the back room of Sharkeys pool and eer.
Refugee from UO,EQ,AC,AC2,AO,DAOC,L2,SB,HZ,CoH,PT,EQ2,WoW,VG,SWG,EVE,WAR,DF,MO,AI,GA,LOTRO, SWTOR... Gw2 on Deck
Stop playing games that appeal to kids. Yes i know "more adults than kids play" blah blah blah. Walk into any new or modern themepark and its chat is jam packed with the chat version of 4chan/reddit...no real conversation exists just trolls and memes.
Jump into a game like Perpetuum/Darkfall/Mortal Online...you have people who act like normal people. Yes theres still joking around but theres conversation and its night and day from any themepark ive played in the last 10 years. TSW had a good community from what i saw too.
Worst communities ive seen as of late inclue: Rift, SWTOR, Tera, GW2 beta (passing on that one)
If there was a worst it would be a toss up between SWTOR and Tera, though i did find out that i was on the server that everyone from reddit chose...and it showed.
When you have to activly seek out the hidden normal person community the games community is bad..end of story. When you walk into a game and the normal mature-ish community is all around you the community is good. Outliers will exist.
Simple way to tell if your mmo community is shit is ask a question. If the first 5-10 responses are troll responses and lol's and you get a pm from a mature player with a real answer and suggestions...then you know its bad...that guy is hiding and the kids are in control.
I find that any game that offers fustrations beyond your normal wow-park drives the kids away. They dont want to put effort towards a game (they just want the best class and to own others NOW) and also they dont want to have to relearn or learn anything. Find a game that can be fustrating while new and requiers a bit of learning and the community improves greatly.
The kids started coming into MMO's with what I call the console crowd just after WoW launched, but many have PC's of course.
If you look at buisness stratergy in general you will see one of the reasons why MMO's are in the state they are today. What is the biggest buying age demographic? 40's, 30's or 20's? No it is the teens, they spend more on their interests than any other age group. So companies are pandering to them and their tastes. Be it TV shows, music or games they are the ones the executives listern to.
It is Teen Idol, not middle aged gamer idol that these games are being made for.
The kids started coming into MMO's with what I call the console crowd just after WoW launched, but many have PC's of course.
If you look at buisness stratergy in general you will see one of the reasons why MMO's are in the state they are today. What is the biggest buying age demographic? 40's, 30's or 20's? No it is the teens, they spend more on their interests than any other age group. So companies are pandering to them and their tastes. Be it TV shows, music or games they are the ones the executives listern to.
It is Teen Idol, not middle aged gamer idol that these games are being made for.
The average gamer is 35-36 years old. So do the rest just pirate their games?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
The kids started coming into MMO's with what I call the console crowd just after WoW launched, but many have PC's of course.
If you look at buisness stratergy in general you will see one of the reasons why MMO's are in the state they are today. What is the biggest buying age demographic? 40's, 30's or 20's? No it is the teens, they spend more on their interests than any other age group. So companies are pandering to them and their tastes. Be it TV shows, music or games they are the ones the executives listern to.
It is Teen Idol, not middle aged gamer idol that these games are being made for.
Gosh .. you are just sticking your head in the sand and ignore the evidence.
There are plenty of facts (many posted in this thread) that the median/average gamer is an adult.
Ahaha that's some crazy stuff. I remember, when being old and playing games was a rare thing, and only so called "geeks" did it. Now older people complain about kids playing games hehe kids playing games... Now there are games for mature players.
WoW. A game with colorful, cartoony graphics, where you can be a green goblin and throw magical spells at others. When you look at it objectively, it looks ridiculous and childish. And then you see the age of 30s being the average. And then people saying, that kids shouldn't play it. Crazy stuff, and scary
What will I see next... toy store with a sign "you need to be 18 to enter" Or "My kid took my legos, kids shouldn't play them"
Comments
I find kids are generally more open to modifying their behavior if it is out of line than adults. At least, that's been my experience. Sure, there are rough spots with kids, but it's nothing like the sort of trouble I've had with people who are 18+. Though, most folk in general seem fine.
I wouldn't want to be on an "adult" server. That just sounds like an excuse for a bunch of crude sexual humor, profanity, and horrific manners. Why is it that things that are for "adults" are not very mature at all? Anyhow, no thanks.
Incidentally the average age of an Eve player rose by one year from last year. I wonder why...
Still, Eve has its share of immature players - stupid ones too. I'd go as far as to say there's hardly any difference when compared to other games.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
You've forgot to add in the excessive boredom factor at the start of EvE when you're dumped in the game with a ship and black screen and basically saying "off you go have fun", took me two trials to get over that until the penny dropped.
OT.
CCP just sent me 14 days free comback plz plz plz plz offer that I'm going to take up so check your email.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Oh just now...during GW2 release week? They must be desperate!
Bwahahahahaha
/slinks back into troll cave....
In the case of sub based MMO's that's a contract and I don't think minors are allowed to enter a contract. Basically what I'm saying is, we don't need kids in MMO's but contracts can be impossible to enforce sometimes.
Yeah how more obvious can you be, though how the hell did they know I was at a lose end this weekend?
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
After talking socially with a few GMs once upon a time in an MMORPG, I came away with a differing insight OP. I once thought that for a medium with an average player age being in their thirties that so much of what occurred was outlandish, childish, anti-social, and frankly dumb. I questioned the age stats and was told per inside data it was accurate. The real problem was that many MMORPG players were considered to be amongst the most socially inept people and that they were freed from inhibitions by online anonymity. This was supposed to be the real issue they felt they were dealing with. Uninhibited social ineptitude... O.o
Adults seem more stuck in their ways and take a lot more offense if you ask them to change their behavior, in my experience.
The main trouble I've had with the ladies is that none of them will go out with me. No one loves Drachasor.
Actually, that's not true, I did date a girl I met in WoW who happened to live in the same city as me (oddly enough we had actually been on a date once before and met in WoW completely by chance). Didn't work out though. No one wants to work out with Drachasor. Hmm, but I should let that stop me from exercising.
The end.
A friend's son who played WOW was so young that he couldn't even read levels properly. No concept of two digit numbers. He used to challenge people to duels left and right. Then he'd say "I couldn't defeat him because, see, he's two-five and i'm one-nine! So it's natural."
So much crap, so little quality.
I completely agree with you, it doesn't help that most people who play mmos are in the 20-30 range.
This is the issue entirely- when games required a modicum of social skills and actually had repercussions for bad behavior there was far less asshattery overall. Unfortunately systems that decreased that behavior was inconvenient for players (need for grouping to progress, needing other players for fast travel rather than NPCs) and costlier for Devs/Pubs (need for increased physical GM moderation to enforce the rules as issues come up rather than hours/days later- if ever).
For the sake of profit and convenience these are the communities we are left with...
When MMOs were community driven, it sifted out most of the people who were not compatible with the game's community. The problem with this was that these games were more 'hard-core' oriented and never really catered to the casuals, but it taught people playing that they had to cooperate with others if they wanted to get things done in an MMO.
The more casual approach to the MMOs currently allows people to enjoy their games without having to spend ridiculous hours, but at the same time the quality of the communities, to me, has really hit rock bottom.
I've always lead big groups in MMOs and talking to children or adults has always been something to deal with. Explaining tactics, game mechanics and in game situations to both gives me what I enjoy the best. It doesn't take anything away from the socializing aspect for me, in fact it gives me variety. Just stay open and patient.
Thanks,
Mike
Working on Social Strategy MMORTS (now Launched!) http://www.worldalpha.com
Smart Kid.
But on topic, ANYONE can be whiny and immature, regardless of age.
Maybe there are too many children in MMO's however there are also too many children at the Shopping Mall, at the convienence store and hanging around in the park. I wish they would go somewhere else. They bug me. And when I say children i mean everyone under the age of thirty because as I near fifty it occurs to me that people under thirty take themselves far to seriously.
I'd like to get the children out of the WalMart. I mean seriously you cant go in the WalMart with our hearing some kid screaming in the back corner of the store because his mother wouldent buy it a fifty dollar piece of third world crap that almost surely would require an emergency room visit down the line.
Children are a scurge that should be clensed with fire.
Refugee from UO,EQ,AC,AC2,AO,DAOC,L2,SB,HZ,CoH,PT,EQ2,WoW,VG,SWG,EVE,WAR,DF,MO,AI,GA,LOTRO, SWTOR... Gw2 on Deck
Remind me to bring a swiss army knife with me if I ever see you around. O_O
Last time I saw one of those it was a down and dirty vasectomy in the back room of Sharkeys pool and eer.
Refugee from UO,EQ,AC,AC2,AO,DAOC,L2,SB,HZ,CoH,PT,EQ2,WoW,VG,SWG,EVE,WAR,DF,MO,AI,GA,LOTRO, SWTOR... Gw2 on Deck
Stop playing games that appeal to kids. Yes i know "more adults than kids play" blah blah blah. Walk into any new or modern themepark and its chat is jam packed with the chat version of 4chan/reddit...no real conversation exists just trolls and memes.
Jump into a game like Perpetuum/Darkfall/Mortal Online...you have people who act like normal people. Yes theres still joking around but theres conversation and its night and day from any themepark ive played in the last 10 years. TSW had a good community from what i saw too.
Worst communities ive seen as of late inclue: Rift, SWTOR, Tera, GW2 beta (passing on that one)
If there was a worst it would be a toss up between SWTOR and Tera, though i did find out that i was on the server that everyone from reddit chose...and it showed.
When you have to activly seek out the hidden normal person community the games community is bad..end of story. When you walk into a game and the normal mature-ish community is all around you the community is good. Outliers will exist.
Simple way to tell if your mmo community is shit is ask a question. If the first 5-10 responses are troll responses and lol's and you get a pm from a mature player with a real answer and suggestions...then you know its bad...that guy is hiding and the kids are in control.
I find that any game that offers fustrations beyond your normal wow-park drives the kids away. They dont want to put effort towards a game (they just want the best class and to own others NOW) and also they dont want to have to relearn or learn anything. Find a game that can be fustrating while new and requiers a bit of learning and the community improves greatly.
The kids started coming into MMO's with what I call the console crowd just after WoW launched, but many have PC's of course.
If you look at buisness stratergy in general you will see one of the reasons why MMO's are in the state they are today. What is the biggest buying age demographic? 40's, 30's or 20's? No it is the teens, they spend more on their interests than any other age group. So companies are pandering to them and their tastes. Be it TV shows, music or games they are the ones the executives listern to.
It is Teen Idol, not middle aged gamer idol that these games are being made for.
The average gamer is 35-36 years old. So do the rest just pirate their games?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Gosh .. you are just sticking your head in the sand and ignore the evidence.
There are plenty of facts (many posted in this thread) that the median/average gamer is an adult.
Ahaha that's some crazy stuff. I remember, when being old and playing games was a rare thing, and only so called "geeks" did it. Now older people complain about kids playing games hehe kids playing games... Now there are games for mature players.
WoW. A game with colorful, cartoony graphics, where you can be a green goblin and throw magical spells at others. When you look at it objectively, it looks ridiculous and childish. And then you see the age of 30s being the average. And then people saying, that kids shouldn't play it. Crazy stuff, and scary
What will I see next... toy store with a sign "you need to be 18 to enter" Or "My kid took my legos, kids shouldn't play them"