The place to put this thread would have been under "Site Suggestions", they actually read and respond to it regularly. (might get overlooked over here, since it's not GW2)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Stop crying for it to be called a new game. It isn't. They shouldn't have messed up the first one then they wouldn't have this issue to begin with.
Yes, I believe there should be a re-review. But no, this is not a new game so suck it up. It is a PATCH. And for that matter, as it's taken as long as it has, I'm still not holding my breath that this will actually release and not be broken.
So a game that only has about 10% of the original game remaining is only a patch? lol by 10% I mean already existing armor sets
Don't cry about semantics. There isn't a history of launch failures of this size and scope. This is a patch. This is a repair/fix/patch for all the problems in the game.
It is NOT an expansion (which would cost and would add to content).
This is not a launch as the game already exists, characters already exist, world exists. Regardless that the content itself is being fixed, the game exists.
Stop crying for it to be called a new game. It isn't. They shouldn't have messed up the first one then they wouldn't have this issue to begin with.
Yes, I believe there should be a re-review. But no, this is not a new game so suck it up. It is a PATCH. And for that matter, as it's taken as long as it has, I'm still not holding my breath that this will actually release and not be broken.
I actually agree that ARR should not have a new page, it's just not necessary, and I say that even being a fan of what SE have done with the retooling of the game. It would just create confusion.
I don't agree really though that 'it's just a patch'.... that's doing SE a huge disservice in how they have handled this situation. If this had been SOE their game would have just been stuck on to life support for the next four years and then had a cash shop tacked on to it to milk it dry.
The sheer scale of what SE have done here is far more then 'just a patch'. It is a relaunch.
Don't cry about semantics. There isn't a history of launch failures of this size and scope. This is a patch. This is a repair/fix/patch for all the problems in the game.
It is NOT an expansion (which would cost and would add to content).
This is not a launch as the game already exists, characters already exist, world exists. Regardless that the content itself is being fixed, the game exists.
Well, not really. The game doesn't really exist anymore. After it's taken offline it'll never come back. It'll be down for months. In which time they'll be setting up the new servers for the new game client. The characters yeah you got me there lol. But the world doesn't exist that's being deleted also. By world I literally mean the entire in-game world is gone. Not revamped, or added to, completely made a new world from scratch.
Don't cry about semantics. There isn't a history of launch failures of this size and scope. This is a patch. This is a repair/fix/patch for all the problems in the game.
It is NOT an expansion (which would cost and would add to content).
This is not a launch as the game already exists, characters already exist, world exists. Regardless that the content itself is being fixed, the game exists.
Well, not really. The game doesn't really exist anymore. After it's taken offline it'll never come back. It'll be down for months. In which time they'll be setting up the new servers for the new game client. The characters yeah you got me there lol. But the world doesn't exist that's being deleted also. By world I literally mean the entire in-game world is gone. Not revamped, or added to, completely made a new world from scratch.
Ohh cool so it wont have linkshells that do the same thing the same 3 factions, the same classes, the same wait everything is still going to be the SAME except things that needs fixed that they messed up originally. All the rest is guesswork the graphics wouldn't work on the very system they created it for the PS3 so it has to be reworked. They don't get props for that. Ragnarok Online 2 didn't.
No double standerds. It will get re-re-re-reviewed by this site once it is launched. It really doesn't deserve that.
I'm not saying that what SE is doing isn't incredible. It takes something serious to ADMIT that everything they did was completely wrong. It takes BIGGER cahones to say we're going to completely scrap everything we did and start over.
But at the end of the day, what is the delivery platform?
To play ARR, do you need to go buy a new box if you own FFXIV? No.
To play ARR, do you need to buy an expansion box in addition to FFXIV? No.
Do you need to run an updater via FFXIV client? Yes.
I get that the word patch doesn't necessarily cover the scope of what they are doing but it really is just a patch. A massive, awesome, updating patch. But it is what it is.
I'm not saying that what SE is doing isn't incredible. It takes something serious to ADMIT that everything they did was completely wrong. It takes BIGGER cahones to say we're going to completely scrap everything we did and start over.
But at the end of the day, what is the delivery platform?
To play ARR, do you need to go buy a new box if you own FFXIV? No.
To play ARR, do you need to buy an expansion box in addition to FFXIV? No.
Do you need to run an updater via FFXIV client? Yes.
I get that the word patch doesn't necessarily cover the scope of what they are doing but it really is just a patch. A massive, awesome, updating patch. But it is what it is.
Fair enough, lol. It's still fucking awesome though. Just trying to spread the word
I'm not saying that what SE is doing isn't incredible. It takes something serious to ADMIT that everything they did was completely wrong. It takes BIGGER cahones to say we're going to completely scrap everything we did and start over.
But at the end of the day, what is the delivery platform?
To play ARR, do you need to go buy a new box if you own FFXIV? No.
To play ARR, do you need to buy an expansion box in addition to FFXIV? No.
Do you need to run an updater via FFXIV client? Yes.
I get that the word patch doesn't necessarily cover the scope of what they are doing but it really is just a patch. A massive, awesome, updating patch. But it is what it is.
We agree to disagree The fact that they sacked everybody that worked on FFXIV, and it wasen't even ordinary SE employes but a chinese company that made it. The fact that Square Enix is taking this in there own hands makes a hugh difference! The graphic engine is new, the combat system is new, the crafting system is new, added classes, jobs and races, completly new made world, lvling system is new, the story is new! Hell what isn't new with this game??
And the only reason that it isn't released as a totaly new game is becouse SE feel like they OWE to the players to make up for there earlier failure! They are printing ARR like it's a new game to bring out to the retailers, and the old ones are thrown away. They could just as easily just put Final Fantasy XV at the lable and pissed off every fan out there.. but they didnt! This is a new game!
We agree to disagree The fact that they sacked everybody that worked on FFXIV, and it wasen't even ordinary SE employes but a chinese company that made it.
They "sacked" the management, and the chinese company tidbit is just pure nonsense. It was 95% in-house and most people working on 2.0 were working on 1.0.
Have you even looked at the CREDITS of both games? Developed by the same people, only management and development procedures have changed.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Do you need to run an updater via FFXIV client? Yes.
You do? That's news to me.
I would have thought it'd make more sense for people to be able to download the NEW FFXIV client from the official website and uninstall the POS current client, but I guess you know more than I do~
Though in the end if the difference between a patch and an expansion/new game is that one costs money and the other one doesn't, that's a pretty silly way to make a comparison in my honest opinion.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
They "sacked" the management, and the chinese company tidbit is just pure nonsense. It was 95% in-house and most people working on 2.0 were working on 1.0.
Have you even looked at the CREDITS of both games? Developed by the same people, only management and development procedures have changed.
"..decided that the most viable step was to approach improvements under new leadership and with a restructured team." - Wada
Managerial Changes
Producer/Director Naoki Yoshida
Section Leader Changes
Assistant Director Shintaro Tamai (FINAL FANTASY X, Front Mission 5: Scars of the War)
Lead Game Designer Nobuaki Komoto (FINAL FANTASY IX, FINAL FANTASY XI)
Lead Combat System Designer Akihiko Matsui (FINAL FANTASY XI)
Technical Advisor Yoshihisa Hashimoto (Next Generation Game Engine Development)
Lead Programmer Hideyuki Kasuga (FINAL FANTASY XI, DIRGE OF CERBERUS -FINAL FANTASY VII-)
Senior Concept Artist Akihiko Yoshida (FINAL FANTASY XII, Vagrant Story)
Lead Artist Hiroshi Takai (FINAL FANTASY XI, THE LAST REMNANT)
Lead UI Designer/Lead Web Designer Hiroshi Minagawa (FINAL FANTASY XII, Vagrant Story)
Seems like they have totaly changed management and done something with the devlopment teams.. we dont know what they mean with "restructed"? Anyhow.. Im happy with so many managers from FFXI! That can only be good ^^
We do, it's in the credits of the game. Team members were shifted around, teams rearranged, new teams formed and some old ones scrapped. The actual people behind the game have not for the most part changed at all. Even the old management has found a place in the new team (former director Komoto is now lead game designer to name an example).
To claim that Chinese made the current game when the credits clearly state every single member of the dev team working from Japan in SE's HQ is behind the catastrophe is the kind of excuse this game does not need or deserve. Three of the people you listed were already making the current game by the way, only their respective duties on the management side changed at best. "Totally changed" my butt.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Patches and expansions can't be listed as completely new games, because then one would have to draw a line to somewhere to determine "When is the game updated enough that it ceases to be old game and turns into new game instead?"
EQ1 has undoubtedly changed so much that it's a new game, not the old game released back 1999. But with huge amount of expansions and patches, what was the patch that changed it from the old game it was to the new game it is today? How about EVE Online? Clearly it's wastly different today than it was at lauch date, but when did it turn from old EVE Online to new EVE Online that is a different game? Anarchy Online today is clearly a new game compared to the old Anarchy Online that was horrible bugfest at launch, but where to put the line between the new game and the old game?
Separate forum for expansion/large patch and maybe even separate hype rating are a good thing. But drawing lines when a game has changed so much that it should be called a new game is not possible. The line would end up being one person's opinion, and much of the community would resent it.
The fact that Square Enix is taking this in there own hands makes a hugh difference! The graphic engine is new, the combat system is new, the crafting system is new(simplafied not new), added classes, jobs and races(There are the same races that was had at the begining Making them black does not mean they are a new race.), completly new made world(Just new engine with map shaping to remove copy-pasta terreain that no one has seen or tested.), lvling system is new, the story is new! Hell what isn't new with this game??
And the only reason that it isn't released as a totaly new game is becouse SE feel like they OWE to the players to make up for there earlier failure! They are printing ARR like it's a new game to bring out to the retailers, and the old ones are thrown away. They could just as easily just put Final Fantasy XV at the lable and pissed off every fan out there.. but they didnt! This is a new game!
I forgot.. the UI is totaly awsome and new to!
Most of what you listed is mostly speculation. The graphics are new because it wouldn't work for the console they made it for? It still has all the same quest arch-types to lvl as it did before.
With the 90% stock drop that made them apologize, they didn't feel like they owed the players they knew if they didn't the wouldn't have a buisness anymore.
I cannot even begin to even think that you are serious about most of your post
WADA WAS IN CONTROL OF THE FIRST FF14 DEVELOPMENT HE STILL IS. ALL FF'S HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED FAILURES IN THE EYES OF SUARE ENIX THEMSELVES.
Wada’s statement indicates that Square recognizes that even its own internal teams have failed to match the high bar set by Final Fantasy VII back in 1997.
Most of what you listed is mostly speculation. The graphics are new because it wouldn't work for the console they made it for? It still has all the same quest arch-types to lvl as it did before.
With the 90% stock drop that made them apologize, they didn't feel like they owed the players they knew if they didn't the wouldn't have a buisness anymore.
I cannot even begin to even think that you are serious about most of your post
WADA WAS IN CONTROL OF THE FIRST FF14 DEVELOPMENT HE STILL IS. ALL FF'S HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED FAILURES IN THE EYES OF SUARE ENIX THEMSELVES.
Wada’s statement indicates that Square recognizes that even its own internal teams have failed to match the high bar set by Final Fantasy VII back in 1997.
Yoshida himself said that they doing this becouse they made some promises to the players that wasen't keept. Is it an apology or that they owe it? Sounds the same to me...
Of course Wada is in controll, his the president of the whole company! Of course he has the finale word but I dont think he's that involed in the development process.. there a lot of other thinks to keep track of in a company like Square Enix if you are the president.
I'm not saying that what SE is doing isn't incredible. It takes something serious to ADMIT that everything they did was completely wrong. It takes BIGGER cahones to say we're going to completely scrap everything we did and start over.
But at the end of the day, what is the delivery platform?
To play ARR, do you need to go buy a new box if you own FFXIV? No.
To play ARR, do you need to buy an expansion box in addition to FFXIV? No.
Do you need to run an updater via FFXIV client? Yes.
I get that the word patch doesn't necessarily cover the scope of what they are doing but it really is just a patch. A massive, awesome, updating patch. But it is what it is.
A patch that releases a completely new engine and server structure?
I dont see why it shouldnt be treated like a new game, all of the current players know that it is. New everything = new game imo. On a side note the alpha test recruitment site is now live!
Originally posted by Mannish This is a new game. Its not a patch or an update. Everything has been redone in Final Fantasy XIV Reborn. It needs its own forum.
If MMORPG.Com adds non mmo games or addons(Day-z and Diablo3) I'm sure they can make a new forum for a new MMO game..
They "sacked" the management, and the chinese company tidbit is just pure nonsense. It was 95% in-house and most people working on 2.0 were working on 1.0.
Have you even looked at the CREDITS of both games? Developed by the same people, only management and development procedures have changed.
"..decided that the most viable step was to approach improvements under new leadership and with a restructured team." - Wada
Managerial Changes
Producer/Director Naoki Yoshida
Section Leader Changes
Assistant Director Shintaro Tamai (FINAL FANTASY X, Front Mission 5: Scars of the War)
Lead Game Designer Nobuaki Komoto (FINAL FANTASY IX, FINAL FANTASY XI)
Lead Combat System Designer Akihiko Matsui (FINAL FANTASY XI)
Technical Advisor Yoshihisa Hashimoto (Next Generation Game Engine Development)
Lead Programmer Hideyuki Kasuga (FINAL FANTASY XI, DIRGE OF CERBERUS -FINAL FANTASY VII-)
Senior Concept Artist Akihiko Yoshida (FINAL FANTASY XII, Vagrant Story)
Lead Artist Hiroshi Takai (FINAL FANTASY XI, THE LAST REMNANT)
Lead UI Designer/Lead Web Designer Hiroshi Minagawa (FINAL FANTASY XII, Vagrant Story)
Seems like they have totaly changed management and done something with the devlopment teams.. we dont know what they mean with "restructed"? Anyhow.. Im happy with so many managers from FFXI! That can only be good ^^
Ugh it totally makes me sad that you have to be a racist and say things like "scrapped the entire chinese team"
You do realize the origional design team is the same guys who made Final Fantasy 11?
You are extremely out of touch and borderline racist.
I agree. The game should get a brand new forum. Keep the old one for archiving purposes. To be more honest, I hope that the team at MMORPG.com is able (hopefully) through contacts; to get access to the Alpha. Even better, maybe they can get an interview set up in regards to a Realm Reborn. If that ends up being the title, I do think it should get a brand new forum, including the reasons listed above.
I would say that close to 100% of the game has "probably" been changed somehow. Tying it to the old forums would make little sense since the majority of the mechanics, gameplay, features, and environment are going to be radically different. I would also say add it to avoid any confusion between the two. Leaving it as is might lead people to believe that the game only got a "moderate" update.
Just watched that weekly mmoftw vid and he didnt even mention XIV ARR @ PAX.... maybe this site is just clueless about the game. Wake up MMORPG.com, Dalmund is here and your missing it!!
So SE revamps a game they should have never released, but don't want to rename so as to not hurt the franchise and thier reputation? What kind of jedi mind trick is this supposed to be? These aren't the droids your looking for.
Comments
The place to put this thread would have been under "Site Suggestions", they actually read and respond to it regularly. (might get overlooked over here, since it's not GW2)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Don't cry about semantics. There isn't a history of launch failures of this size and scope. This is a patch. This is a repair/fix/patch for all the problems in the game.
It is NOT an expansion (which would cost and would add to content).
This is not a launch as the game already exists, characters already exist, world exists. Regardless that the content itself is being fixed, the game exists.
I actually agree that ARR should not have a new page, it's just not necessary, and I say that even being a fan of what SE have done with the retooling of the game. It would just create confusion.
I don't agree really though that 'it's just a patch'.... that's doing SE a huge disservice in how they have handled this situation. If this had been SOE their game would have just been stuck on to life support for the next four years and then had a cash shop tacked on to it to milk it dry.
The sheer scale of what SE have done here is far more then 'just a patch'. It is a relaunch.
And kudos to them for that I say.
Well, not really. The game doesn't really exist anymore. After it's taken offline it'll never come back. It'll be down for months. In which time they'll be setting up the new servers for the new game client. The characters yeah you got me there lol. But the world doesn't exist that's being deleted also. By world I literally mean the entire in-game world is gone. Not revamped, or added to, completely made a new world from scratch.
Ohh cool so it wont have linkshells that do the same thing the same 3 factions, the same classes, the same wait everything is still going to be the SAME except things that needs fixed that they messed up originally. All the rest is guesswork the graphics wouldn't work on the very system they created it for the PS3 so it has to be reworked. They don't get props for that. Ragnarok Online 2 didn't.
No double standerds. It will get re-re-re-reviewed by this site once it is launched. It really doesn't deserve that.
And don't misunderstand me....
I'm not saying that what SE is doing isn't incredible. It takes something serious to ADMIT that everything they did was completely wrong. It takes BIGGER cahones to say we're going to completely scrap everything we did and start over.
But at the end of the day, what is the delivery platform?
To play ARR, do you need to go buy a new box if you own FFXIV? No.
To play ARR, do you need to buy an expansion box in addition to FFXIV? No.
Do you need to run an updater via FFXIV client? Yes.
I get that the word patch doesn't necessarily cover the scope of what they are doing but it really is just a patch. A massive, awesome, updating patch. But it is what it is.
Fair enough, lol. It's still fucking awesome though. Just trying to spread the word
We agree to disagree
The fact that they sacked everybody that worked on FFXIV, and it wasen't even ordinary SE employes but a chinese company that made it. The fact that Square Enix is taking this in there own hands makes a hugh difference! The graphic engine is new, the combat system is new, the crafting system is new, added classes, jobs and races, completly new made world, lvling system is new, the story is new! Hell what isn't new with this game??
And the only reason that it isn't released as a totaly new game is becouse SE feel like they OWE to the players to make up for there earlier failure! They are printing ARR like it's a new game to bring out to the retailers, and the old ones are thrown away. They could just as easily just put Final Fantasy XV at the lable and pissed off every fan out there.. but they didnt! This is a new game!
I forgot.. the UI is totaly awsome and new to!
They "sacked" the management, and the chinese company tidbit is just pure nonsense. It was 95% in-house and most people working on 2.0 were working on 1.0.
Have you even looked at the CREDITS of both games? Developed by the same people, only management and development procedures have changed.
You do? That's news to me.
I would have thought it'd make more sense for people to be able to download the NEW FFXIV client from the official website and uninstall the POS current client, but I guess you know more than I do~
Though in the end if the difference between a patch and an expansion/new game is that one costs money and the other one doesn't, that's a pretty silly way to make a comparison in my honest opinion.
"..decided that the most viable step was to approach improvements under new leadership and with a restructured team." - Wada
Managerial Changes
Producer/Director
Naoki Yoshida
Section Leader Changes
Assistant Director
Shintaro Tamai (FINAL FANTASY X, Front Mission 5: Scars of the War)
Lead Game Designer
Nobuaki Komoto (FINAL FANTASY IX, FINAL FANTASY XI)
Lead Combat System Designer
Akihiko Matsui (FINAL FANTASY XI)
Technical Advisor
Yoshihisa Hashimoto (Next Generation Game Engine Development)
Lead Programmer
Hideyuki Kasuga (FINAL FANTASY XI, DIRGE OF CERBERUS -FINAL FANTASY VII-)
Senior Concept Artist
Akihiko Yoshida (FINAL FANTASY XII, Vagrant Story)
Lead Artist
Hiroshi Takai (FINAL FANTASY XI, THE LAST REMNANT)
Lead UI Designer/Lead Web Designer
Hiroshi Minagawa (FINAL FANTASY XII, Vagrant Story)
Seems like they have totaly changed management and done something with the devlopment teams.. we dont know what they mean with "restructed"? Anyhow.. Im happy with so many managers from FFXI! That can only be good ^^
To claim that Chinese made the current game when the credits clearly state every single member of the dev team working from Japan in SE's HQ is behind the catastrophe is the kind of excuse this game does not need or deserve. Three of the people you listed were already making the current game by the way, only their respective duties on the management side changed at best. "Totally changed" my butt.
Thoose persons ARE the new management..
This are the old ones;
Producer
Hiromichi Tanaka
Director
Nobuaki Komoto
Art Director
Akihiko Yoshida
Battle Director
Atsushi Okada
Music
Nobuo Uematsu
Level Design
Yusuke Kigoshi
Scenario
Yaeko Sato
World Concept Planner
Kenichi Iwao
An even more interesting discussion is whether how much the managers role affect the outcome of a game..?
Patches and expansions can't be listed as completely new games, because then one would have to draw a line to somewhere to determine "When is the game updated enough that it ceases to be old game and turns into new game instead?"
EQ1 has undoubtedly changed so much that it's a new game, not the old game released back 1999. But with huge amount of expansions and patches, what was the patch that changed it from the old game it was to the new game it is today? How about EVE Online? Clearly it's wastly different today than it was at lauch date, but when did it turn from old EVE Online to new EVE Online that is a different game? Anarchy Online today is clearly a new game compared to the old Anarchy Online that was horrible bugfest at launch, but where to put the line between the new game and the old game?
Separate forum for expansion/large patch and maybe even separate hype rating are a good thing. But drawing lines when a game has changed so much that it should be called a new game is not possible. The line would end up being one person's opinion, and much of the community would resent it.
Most of what you listed is mostly speculation. The graphics are new because it wouldn't work for the console they made it for? It still has all the same quest arch-types to lvl as it did before.
With the 90% stock drop that made them apologize, they didn't feel like they owed the players they knew if they didn't the wouldn't have a buisness anymore.
I cannot even begin to even think that you are serious about most of your post
WADA WAS IN CONTROL OF THE FIRST FF14 DEVELOPMENT HE STILL IS. ALL FF'S HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED FAILURES IN THE EYES OF SUARE ENIX THEMSELVES.
Wada’s statement indicates that Square recognizes that even its own internal teams have failed to match the high bar set by Final Fantasy VII back in 1997.
Read more: http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/square-enix-no-final-fantasy-vii-hd-remake-until-weve-made-a-game-better-than-final-fantasy-vii/#ixzz24dnwqaP9
Now you just critizing for the sake of it.
Yoshida himself said that they doing this becouse they made some promises to the players that wasen't keept. Is it an apology or that they owe it? Sounds the same to me...
Of course Wada is in controll, his the president of the whole company! Of course he has the finale word but I dont think he's that involed in the development process.. there a lot of other thinks to keep track of in a company like Square Enix if you are the president.
A patch that releases a completely new engine and server structure?
If MMORPG.Com adds non mmo games or addons(Day-z and Diablo3) I'm sure they can make a new forum for a new MMO game..
I had 100% completey given up on this game after playing at launch. I bought the CE too. But it's now back on my radar. Lets hope for the best!
Maybe these forums should bundle all the OLD threads into a Pre-2.0 section so the game can be discused fresh?
Ugh it totally makes me sad that you have to be a racist and say things like "scrapped the entire chinese team"
You do realize the origional design team is the same guys who made Final Fantasy 11?
You are extremely out of touch and borderline racist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiromichi_Tanaka
I agree. The game should get a brand new forum. Keep the old one for archiving purposes. To be more honest, I hope that the team at MMORPG.com is able (hopefully) through contacts; to get access to the Alpha. Even better, maybe they can get an interview set up in regards to a Realm Reborn. If that ends up being the title, I do think it should get a brand new forum, including the reasons listed above.
I would say that close to 100% of the game has "probably" been changed somehow. Tying it to the old forums would make little sense since the majority of the mechanics, gameplay, features, and environment are going to be radically different. I would also say add it to avoid any confusion between the two. Leaving it as is might lead people to believe that the game only got a "moderate" update.