Why? It isn't because you aren't standing still and using strategic key pressing (which is mentally challenging, and why I like it so much)...but...
Even DCU (DC Universe) had mana and stamina. In GW2...what happened to the stamina and mana bar? You press the one key over and over and over...there is no strategy. It doesn't matter what weapon(s) I have equipped, I just kill everything by pressing one key. On top of that, unlike other MMOs (like DCU) where this is possible...I don't even have to worry about stamina or mana. Which EVERY MMO has. This isn't even a real MMO. There is just no strategy to the combat. It has been dumbed down so much.
Anyone else find they really miss the stamina/mana bar? At least that would add strategy, instead of hitting the one key repeatedly.
Buttonmashers like you are the shitloads of people I rez'd in these 3 days. I saw more dead players and provided more rezzes in the open world in these few days than on my healers in other mmo's together over 10+ years.
If you think you can get away with that through the entire game and in situations like fighting a champion mob with no other players around, then I'd like to see that. Meet me in PvP for a 1v1, I'm terribad in pvp but I bet I can easily repeatedly kill you by actually using my skills right.
I remember clearly during beta i asked in a thread that if there is no stamina bar everyone will dodge like frieking frogs around which is ridiculous and no indication whatsoever of tactical factor. Then couple of guys that played beta said that stamina bar lowers alot if u dodge once or twice.
Op here suggests that anet removed that stamina bar entirely from the game?
Originally posted by tazarconan Op here suggests that anet removed that stamina bar entirely from the game?
The OP meant a generic resource bar like mana/rage/energy in WoW. If he did some research or played a thief, for example, he'd know that some classes in GW2 have it.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
I thing I did not see mentioned is the skill required to combat enemies while being aware of environmental concerns. This is what I find the most fun and challenging. Killing a mob is easy, trying to avoid traps, falls, and other mobs is what is more difficult imo. I have never really been concerned about environments in mmos since DDO. I understand your criticisms of the game OP, and they are valid.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Most other games, Combat is masted pretty quick. This one is still taking time. I am still trying to train my reflexes to know when to properly judge and time dodge. It's not as easy as it looks. Also there are many abilities you have to unlock through the use of different weapons. Once you unlock the abilities, you have to get comfortable with them and what they do. You then have to get used to hot swapping to get to them. You have size up in advance what abilities you might be using most and set up you hot swap queue accordingly. At the moment, I am limited to 1 swap set.
When I watched my 1st video of GW2, I thought the same thing. "Oh look, GW2 combat.... 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 3 "OH SHIT!" 111111111111111111111111 "Oh thank god!" 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 3 But in reality it's not so simple.
I've been playing MMOs for years. I'm not the most skilled player, but I'm not stupid either. As an experienced gamer, I can tell you, It's not that easy and I haven't fully figured this one out yet.
Get deep into the game, 30+, then you'll realize why people like it.
yeah, every MMO I can tell before level 10 if I like combat or not. WoW gave me tons of stuff before level 10, and TONS of stuff at level 10. Same with SWTOR and a lot of other MMOs.
It isn't the worst combat in a MMO though, it is just really dumbed down. No mana or stamina...the staple of all RPGs is missing. Can't get more dumbed down than that. Even DCU, they made it where it regenned fast...but you still had to manage it.
You don't need mana or stamina if your skills have cooldowns. Some classes have adrenaline / initiative system, there is stamina/endurance which allows you to dodge. Your argument that WoW gave you more options in combat is rather laughable. Mana/stamina is simply hidden in the cooldowns in GW2. I don't remember actively dodging attacks ( while managing my endurance to not waste it for low damage attacks etc ), blocking attacks in WoW.
Not only do I need to utilize the switch weapon to take down Veterans, I also have to be tricky to win skill challenges.
Even during Champion fights, when it was just 2 people against that champion, I was never at a downstate.
Unfotunately it did take me up to level 20 to really learn the weapon skills for my character and which weapons I like and the combinations that they offer to kill something quick.
I have experimented with different weapon combinations, die a couple times. So from that experience I can tell you that the Combat is more indepth than other MMO's.
And before each encounter you actually think before you act, no more mindless killings.
Its true that you only start to understand your character after level 11 because thats when you finally get to utilize all the skills given to your character.
Borrow the game from a friend, try it and you will be addicted to it.
That feeling of reading the opponent and getting a successful Dodge is truly amazing.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Not only do I need to utilize the switch weapon to take down Veterans, I also have to be tricky to win skill challenges.
Even during Champion fights, when it was just 2 people against that champion, I was never at a downstate.
Unfotunately it did take me up to level 20 to really learn the weapon skills for my character and which weapons I like and the combinations that they offer to kill something quick.
I have experimented with different weapon combinations, die a couple times. So from that experience I can tell you that the Combat is more indepth than other MMO's.
And before each encounter you actually think before you act, no more mindless killings.
Its true that you only start to understand your character after level 11 because thats when you finally get to utilize all the skills given to your character.
Borrow the game from a friend, try it and you will be addicted to it.
That feeling of reading the opponent and getting a successful Dodge is truly amazing.
The only thing I would say about the combat after level 30 is that, for the most part, after learning all of your weapon skills and getting most of your unlocked skills (at least the ones you want) you end up with a build that you really like.. and that doesn't change much.
I know which weapons I like for my character.. and I know pretty much what traits to spec into and how that will mesh with my weapons and playstyle. It doesn't make the combat boring or easy... far from it... you always have to be on your toes for the most part, but it does make the combat builds stale, seeing as how I'm level 37 right now and not even halfway to max level. (even if my in-game completion is at 35%). So I pretty much have 40+ more levels of the same skills and playstyle.
I'm okay with that personally, but it can get stale. With my build I can solo group Champions (it just takes a very long time). I know in the future though I'll need more variety to keep going.
When has strategy in combat ever matterd when pve is the entier map worths of people all zerging a pve boss event...or when has combat strategy matterd when your zerg vs zerg in pvp.
Just stand there, find the "i win skill" and spam it and sit back and feel like you accomplished something...because lets be honest, if you had decided to log off and miss that world boss or pvp event...no one would even notice....so that feeling or worth, strategy and accomplishment must come from inside....your the only one whos going to notice how well you do in zerg pve/pvp.
Why? It isn't because you aren't standing still and using strategic key pressing (which is mentally challenging, and why I like it so much)...but...
Even DCU (DC Universe) had mana and stamina. In GW2...what happened to the stamina and mana bar? You press the one key over and over and over...there is no strategy. It doesn't matter what weapon(s) I have equipped, I just kill everything by pressing one key. On top of that, unlike other MMOs (like DCU) where this is possible...I don't even have to worry about stamina or mana. Which EVERY MMO has. This isn't even a real MMO. There is just no strategy to the combat. It has been dumbed down so much.
Anyone else find they really miss the stamina/mana bar? At least that would add strategy, instead of hitting the one key repeatedly.
If you are pressing the one key over and over, then obviously the game has not been dumbed down enough for you. You can enable auto-attack on it.
This at first sounds like easy mode but in fact, it frees people up. To move around, to look around. To see if maybe some other player is in trouble, some one needs rezzing or adds are about to hit the rear guard.
If you are just standing their pressing the 1 button over and over again, then you are just a mindless DPS and you will always be a mindless DPS. Mind you, this game does encourage that. Just stand there at a boss pressing 1 button GOLD MEDAL.
Deal with ads, protect and buff the group and resurrect people? Bronze, you looser.
Then again, this is a korean game, what did you expect? Chess grand master challenge?
When has strategy in combat ever matterd when pve is the entier map worths of people all zerging a pve boss event...or when has combat strategy matterd when your zerg vs zerg in pvp.
Just stand there, find the "i win skill" and spam it and sit back and feel like you accomplished something...because lets be honest, if you had decided to log off and miss that world boss or pvp event...no one would even notice....so that feeling or worth, strategy and accomplishment must come from inside....your the only one whos going to notice how well you do in zerg pve/pvp.
That is very true, it all depends on you the Gamer.
When I find a hole in the ground and see water, while it doesn't show it on the map, I jumped, only to be surrounded by mobs. That was fun, but it was only fun for me.
When I found that Veteran, and tested my skills for the first time and won without any support from passerbys I felt amazing.
When I changed my weapons and Utilities to test out a new attack pattern and succeeded, I felt great.
Its all about you the Gamer.
And this game delivers.
( there was a couple places that you can get to by just taking a leap of faith, either you die because the water is shallow, or you just found an alternative way of getting there, kinda fun when you realized that you could have just walked through the secret door down a stairway blocked by some leaves, but you still do the jump because it was just fun)
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
When has strategy in combat ever matterd when pve is the entier map worths of people all zerging a pve boss event...or when has combat strategy matterd when your zerg vs zerg in pvp.
Just stand there, find the "i win skill" and spam it and sit back and feel like you accomplished something...because lets be honest, if you had decided to log off and miss that world boss or pvp event...no one would even notice....so that feeling or worth, strategy and accomplishment must come from inside....your the only one whos going to notice how well you do in zerg pve/pvp.
In many cases this is true... more in GW2 than in other games. In other games, people usually don't run in and start whacking away at mobs other people are already killing.. and stepping in to help if someone is about to die is an act of kindness. Grouping actually means something. You group with people who know how to play, and play well... thats not the case in GW2.
It doesn't matter that, in events, I am always up, helping others to stay alive, and never going down.. nobody realizes that. All they care about it that they are smashing buttons until they fall on the ground, then expect someone -- anyone -- to stop what they're doing to pick them up so they can go die again.
Haha that makes me laugh! The amount of people I have rezzed during events, hearts, bosses definatly indicate the combat is hardly easy/button mashing, obviously you are not challenging yourself and going out of your way to attack veteran/champion bosses because they are tough.
The combat system in PvE is similar to every single other MMO post-WoW. Let's get that straight. I don't understand how people don't see this. You pick your skills, there's a certain combination of numbers that you press over and over and over (or just randomly when they cooldown), and the mobs die. It's been like this for enternity and changes VERY little from MMO to MMO. You should not judge a post-WoW MMO's combat system from PvE as most of them follow this pattern.
PvP, on the other hand, is a different matter. While GW2 is definitely much faster than most MMO's (and sadly kind of feels like WoW), there is definitely some unique elements to it. My buddy has been playing every beta weekend 24/7 straight. He's about 50 now and hasn't exploited anything. And I can tell you for sure, he knows the best way to beat every class in PvP using his Guardian (he's played all the other classes a ton).
A lot of people don't realize how important timing interrupts or dodges with their opponents' most important skills is. Guild Wars 2 is fast, and the skill/spell animations are not very unique. However, my friend knows every skill for each class and what it looks like. He can interrupt or dodge their elites, and crush them in turn. He really isn't someone you wanna screw with in the field. He also leads our guilds PvP group and I can tell you there is definitely a specialized skill in that too. He knows what targets to call first, demands we throw certain skills on them, etc.
There is a lot of hidden skill in this game, and a lot of it I haven't really figured out. It takes time, experience, and practice. People that complain all the time about simplicity, classes being imbalanced, and other stuff are simply whiners who are too lazy to understand the true mechanics after they get rolled a couple of times.
Have you gone 5v5 against one of the best guilds in the game? I have. They showed us that there is a lot of skill required in this game when we got absolutely annihilated by them. Completely crushed. And we aren't exactly "noobs".
The game is dumbed down some in a lot of ways. You can tell it's definitely targeted to casual players but there is still something for everyone.
I don't understand this whole button mashing argument? On my warrior I have a lot of different resources to manage:
1. Energy or endurance (whatever you use to dodge) if you haven't realized it yet this is a critical resource and I actually use skills to increase my regen of it.
2. Skill cooldowns, each weapon has a combination of different snares and burst damage and the timing on them is critical. If you miss or use one at the wrong time it can be bad news especially if you're actually fighting other players.
3. Weapon swapping, being able to transition from bow/rifle to sword at the right times is a must
4. Adrenaline, what do I need to say? It's the same kind of resource that rises and falls just like every other game and it a critical part of dps.
5. Runes, not sure what to say if you can't understand the benefits of actively managing these resources you aren't doing it right.
Using auto attacks I can take on stuff my level. Effectively managing all of the above I'm able to take on several mobs up to 7 levels higher than me and the game rewards me for this with better loot. It's fun and I feel like I'm being rewarded for it. In PVP the players able to manage all of their stuff will be the ones not dying and getting all the kills.
You just keep on button mashing though and you will have some success that's the beauty of the game actually. It's fun for everyone at all skill levels!!
I think they are just trying to speed up the process and feel of the game. With normal subscription MMO the idea is to keep you playing as long as possible. So things like depositing crafting supplies to your bank would require going back to town (hub, station, base, etc.) where with GW2 they want you to move through quickly so depositing becomes as easy as clicking a button in your inventory. Personally I really like it, this game doesn't feel like one big cash grab. More like they think they have a great game that players will want to spend money on instead of have to spenf money on.
Comments
comparing that trash with gw2 is sad...
Buttonmashers like you are the shitloads of people I rez'd in these 3 days. I saw more dead players and provided more rezzes in the open world in these few days than on my healers in other mmo's together over 10+ years.
If you think you can get away with that through the entire game and in situations like fighting a champion mob with no other players around, then I'd like to see that. Meet me in PvP for a 1v1, I'm terribad in pvp but I bet I can easily repeatedly kill you by actually using my skills right.
I remember clearly during beta i asked in a thread that if there is no stamina bar everyone will dodge like frieking frogs around which is ridiculous and no indication whatsoever of tactical factor. Then couple of guys that played beta said that stamina bar lowers alot if u dodge once or twice.
Op here suggests that anet removed that stamina bar entirely from the game?
The OP meant a generic resource bar like mana/rage/energy in WoW. If he did some research or played a thief, for example, he'd know that some classes in GW2 have it.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
I thing I did not see mentioned is the skill required to combat enemies while being aware of environmental concerns. This is what I find the most fun and challenging. Killing a mob is easy, trying to avoid traps, falls, and other mobs is what is more difficult imo. I have never really been concerned about environments in mmos since DDO. I understand your criticisms of the game OP, and they are valid.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Most other games, Combat is masted pretty quick.
This one is still taking time. I am still trying to train my reflexes to know when to properly judge and time dodge. It's not as easy as it looks. Also there are many abilities you have to unlock through the use of different weapons. Once you unlock the abilities, you have to get comfortable with them and what they do. You then have to get used to hot swapping to get to them. You have size up in advance what abilities you might be using most and set up you hot swap queue accordingly. At the moment, I am limited to 1 swap set.
When I watched my 1st video of GW2, I thought the same thing. "Oh look, GW2 combat....
1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 3
"OH SHIT!"
111111111111111111111111
"Oh thank god!"
1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 3
But in reality it's not so simple.
I've been playing MMOs for years. I'm not the most skilled player, but I'm not stupid either. As an experienced gamer, I can tell you, It's not that easy and I haven't fully figured this one out yet.
You don't need mana or stamina if your skills have cooldowns. Some classes have adrenaline / initiative system, there is stamina/endurance which allows you to dodge. Your argument that WoW gave you more options in combat is rather laughable. Mana/stamina is simply hidden in the cooldowns in GW2. I don't remember actively dodging attacks ( while managing my endurance to not waste it for low damage attacks etc ), blocking attacks in WoW.
I got my character to 36,
Not only do I need to utilize the switch weapon to take down Veterans, I also have to be tricky to win skill challenges.
Even during Champion fights, when it was just 2 people against that champion, I was never at a downstate.
Unfotunately it did take me up to level 20 to really learn the weapon skills for my character and which weapons I like and the combinations that they offer to kill something quick.
I have experimented with different weapon combinations, die a couple times. So from that experience I can tell you that the Combat is more indepth than other MMO's.
And before each encounter you actually think before you act, no more mindless killings.
Its true that you only start to understand your character after level 11 because thats when you finally get to utilize all the skills given to your character.
Borrow the game from a friend, try it and you will be addicted to it.
That feeling of reading the opponent and getting a successful Dodge is truly amazing.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
The only thing I would say about the combat after level 30 is that, for the most part, after learning all of your weapon skills and getting most of your unlocked skills (at least the ones you want) you end up with a build that you really like.. and that doesn't change much.
I know which weapons I like for my character.. and I know pretty much what traits to spec into and how that will mesh with my weapons and playstyle. It doesn't make the combat boring or easy... far from it... you always have to be on your toes for the most part, but it does make the combat builds stale, seeing as how I'm level 37 right now and not even halfway to max level. (even if my in-game completion is at 35%). So I pretty much have 40+ more levels of the same skills and playstyle.
I'm okay with that personally, but it can get stale. With my build I can solo group Champions (it just takes a very long time). I know in the future though I'll need more variety to keep going.
When has strategy in combat ever matterd when pve is the entier map worths of people all zerging a pve boss event...or when has combat strategy matterd when your zerg vs zerg in pvp.
Just stand there, find the "i win skill" and spam it and sit back and feel like you accomplished something...because lets be honest, if you had decided to log off and miss that world boss or pvp event...no one would even notice....so that feeling or worth, strategy and accomplishment must come from inside....your the only one whos going to notice how well you do in zerg pve/pvp.
If you are pressing the one key over and over, then obviously the game has not been dumbed down enough for you. You can enable auto-attack on it.
This at first sounds like easy mode but in fact, it frees people up. To move around, to look around. To see if maybe some other player is in trouble, some one needs rezzing or adds are about to hit the rear guard.
If you are just standing their pressing the 1 button over and over again, then you are just a mindless DPS and you will always be a mindless DPS. Mind you, this game does encourage that. Just stand there at a boss pressing 1 button GOLD MEDAL.
Deal with ads, protect and buff the group and resurrect people? Bronze, you looser.
Then again, this is a korean game, what did you expect? Chess grand master challenge?
That is very true, it all depends on you the Gamer.
When I find a hole in the ground and see water, while it doesn't show it on the map, I jumped, only to be surrounded by mobs. That was fun, but it was only fun for me.
When I found that Veteran, and tested my skills for the first time and won without any support from passerbys I felt amazing.
When I changed my weapons and Utilities to test out a new attack pattern and succeeded, I felt great.
Its all about you the Gamer.
And this game delivers.
( there was a couple places that you can get to by just taking a leap of faith, either you die because the water is shallow, or you just found an alternative way of getting there, kinda fun when you realized that you could have just walked through the secret door down a stairway blocked by some leaves, but you still do the jump because it was just fun)
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
In many cases this is true... more in GW2 than in other games. In other games, people usually don't run in and start whacking away at mobs other people are already killing.. and stepping in to help if someone is about to die is an act of kindness. Grouping actually means something. You group with people who know how to play, and play well... thats not the case in GW2.
It doesn't matter that, in events, I am always up, helping others to stay alive, and never going down.. nobody realizes that. All they care about it that they are smashing buttons until they fall on the ground, then expect someone -- anyone -- to stop what they're doing to pick them up so they can go die again.
Haha that makes me laugh! The amount of people I have rezzed during events, hearts, bosses definatly indicate the combat is hardly easy/button mashing, obviously you are not challenging yourself and going out of your way to attack veteran/champion bosses because they are tough.
The combat system in PvE is similar to every single other MMO post-WoW. Let's get that straight. I don't understand how people don't see this. You pick your skills, there's a certain combination of numbers that you press over and over and over (or just randomly when they cooldown), and the mobs die. It's been like this for enternity and changes VERY little from MMO to MMO. You should not judge a post-WoW MMO's combat system from PvE as most of them follow this pattern.
PvP, on the other hand, is a different matter. While GW2 is definitely much faster than most MMO's (and sadly kind of feels like WoW), there is definitely some unique elements to it. My buddy has been playing every beta weekend 24/7 straight. He's about 50 now and hasn't exploited anything. And I can tell you for sure, he knows the best way to beat every class in PvP using his Guardian (he's played all the other classes a ton).
A lot of people don't realize how important timing interrupts or dodges with their opponents' most important skills is. Guild Wars 2 is fast, and the skill/spell animations are not very unique. However, my friend knows every skill for each class and what it looks like. He can interrupt or dodge their elites, and crush them in turn. He really isn't someone you wanna screw with in the field. He also leads our guilds PvP group and I can tell you there is definitely a specialized skill in that too. He knows what targets to call first, demands we throw certain skills on them, etc.
There is a lot of hidden skill in this game, and a lot of it I haven't really figured out. It takes time, experience, and practice. People that complain all the time about simplicity, classes being imbalanced, and other stuff are simply whiners who are too lazy to understand the true mechanics after they get rolled a couple of times.
Have you gone 5v5 against one of the best guilds in the game? I have. They showed us that there is a lot of skill required in this game when we got absolutely annihilated by them. Completely crushed. And we aren't exactly "noobs".
Just my 2 cents.
The game is dumbed down some in a lot of ways. You can tell it's definitely targeted to casual players but there is still something for everyone.
I don't understand this whole button mashing argument? On my warrior I have a lot of different resources to manage:
1. Energy or endurance (whatever you use to dodge) if you haven't realized it yet this is a critical resource and I actually use skills to increase my regen of it.
2. Skill cooldowns, each weapon has a combination of different snares and burst damage and the timing on them is critical. If you miss or use one at the wrong time it can be bad news especially if you're actually fighting other players.
3. Weapon swapping, being able to transition from bow/rifle to sword at the right times is a must
4. Adrenaline, what do I need to say? It's the same kind of resource that rises and falls just like every other game and it a critical part of dps.
5. Runes, not sure what to say if you can't understand the benefits of actively managing these resources you aren't doing it right.
Using auto attacks I can take on stuff my level. Effectively managing all of the above I'm able to take on several mobs up to 7 levels higher than me and the game rewards me for this with better loot. It's fun and I feel like I'm being rewarded for it. In PVP the players able to manage all of their stuff will be the ones not dying and getting all the kills.
You just keep on button mashing though and you will have some success that's the beauty of the game actually. It's fun for everyone at all skill levels!!
The man, the myth, the legend.
Add me on Evolve!