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Casual Mindset
Silvermink
Member UncommonPosts: 289
In EQ I was a hardcore raider, 5 nights a week. I don't do that anymore. I have the time, I just don't like the elitist mindset that many raiders have so I have moved to more casual fun guilds. I have an issue though, I want to complete everything. I don't care about loot (besides what's needed to progress) as I want to see all the content the devs work so hard to create. Casual guilds have a very hard accomplishing this. Not because their members don't want it. Not because they don't have enough people. But the casual players often refuse to commit to progression.
Why can someone that is ontime at work everyday, goes to the movies on time and meets friends, goes on dates at set times can't show up for a raid? They don't tell friends that they'll show up at the bar to meet them whenever and expect anyone to be there (well some people do, but not ones I'd keep as friends). Are online friends less important than offline ones? I was going to say real, but online friends are just as real as offline ones. Wehave emotions. We feel disappointed when the raid is cancelled cause the tank wanted to watch tv instead. I'm not saying they need to commit to 3-5 days a week 6 hours a night. But is it so hard for 1-2 nights a week 2-3 hours? Theygo to a movie for 2 hours. They go to sports for 4. I know real life happens, kids and spouses, etc. but your online friends should warrant the same response if you had to cancel a date or not go to the game. A timely message and a heartfelt apology. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but friends - online or off - deserve respect. Just cause it's a game, doesn't mean the people you play with aren't real.
I know this is a pretty hardcore forum but it's the only non-game specific forum I post to. 
/end soapbox
Comments
Maybe (and forgive the mild language please) it''s simply because they have so many strong commitments they must keep in real life that it strains them and they need something they can "half-ass" to relax in their happy fun time. O.o
I mean I used to work in an area that required so much complex thought that weighed on me so heavily that I would go home and let loose by watching "stupid stuff "like pro-wrestling, B-Movies, or even hit a strip club just to remain sane and not burn out on living. Same deal.
I have no problem with people that play just for fun. That's fine. But if you say you want to progress or want to raid (or want the rewards from raiding) then blow off the people that try to make that happen, it's different.
If you call up your friend at the last minute and say lets go to a club (pick-up group) they probably expect you to show up within a reasonable time. If you want to see a movie coming out next week, you probably pick a time and date to meet friends, you don't just show up at the theatre randomly expecting them to be there waiting for you. You don't go to a concert at anytime you please and demand the band start playing when you get there. There are spur of the moment things you do in RL, and online, and things that have to be scheduled. The game doesn't force that schedule on you, you volunteer and negotiate it with friends...real people. If you can't go to a concert on the days the band plays, you don't tell people you will.
Part of the issue that must be considered is who the casual may simply be dealing with people that do not understand. That is why would someone have a schedule for an online video game. Even if it is only 4 hours a week. To some people it would be more acceptable to schedule regular time to watch TV (that could be recorded) than to play a game with other people. I can see the casual simply tagging along whatever friend circle with this mindset, it is less drama for them this way.
My personal group of friends are into gaming, but not so much for online gaming. They are more into going out to eat, go to a movie, or head home and watch something there. If it is a game, it would be played single player. I had spoken to them about my online gaming experiences on several occations, but it was clear that they had no understanding what-so-ever to the concept. Very bright group of people, just they are not wired to this form of entertainment. Fortunally for me, they didn't interfer with my gaming schedule to cause drama, but at the same time my gaming schedule was set arround our regular activities.
Raiding requires a much higher level of commitment than going to a movie. You don't commit to go to a series of 10 movies with a friend, do you?
I was doing hardcore raiding back in WOTLK. You need to show up for every week. That is simply too much for a GAME.
I much prefer LFR, which requires zero commitment. Games should accomodate players' schedule, not the other way around.
Silvermink, I think you hit the nail on the head with:
This is very subjective and depends entirely on how much a person values his/her online friends. I've known someone who is very pleasant and thoughtful of others be completely mindless of others online because "those are video game people"; treating other players like NPCs that only exist to assist him in having fun or get gear.
To me, no.
I have a family and enough friends. I do have online friends that come close to real friends, but to be honest, i don't have the time & energy for them anyway.
Killing some monster with me a few times do not make a true friend.
I agree. ALL my friends are real world friends.
How many of these Internet friends have been to your home? For me, zero. Same goes for me going to their house. People look at facebook/myspace social sites where "friend count" is a badge of something meaningful (not to me) to some people. But people shouldn't confuse those people as real friends. The word friend is overloaded.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Yeh. The closest i got is an online guildie told me that he works at an Apple store close by. And i said i would look him up there whenever i am in the store and have time. I have yet to do that.
Online community cannot substitute a real world one .. and there is no point in investing too much into them since they shift a lot.
I'm thankful that's not the experience I've had. I met wonderful people in EQ1 and that wound up shifting to WoW and the majority of the folks we'd had in guild still talk to each other regularly either in vent while playing whatever games or IRL. We've had several RL meet-ups and only a very few weren't as pleasant to be around IRL as they were in game.
I'd be willing to say those friends are easily as cherished by me as friends I'd met in the military (and under far more stressful circumstances).
The majority of my online real friends are people I've at least talked to on the phone, but most I've met in person or have been over to my house, etc. However, the mark of a real friend is one that you stop playing games with and start interacting with on an entirely different level. Most people I consider friends that I met in games, we just don't play together but we e-mail or call regularly and talk about things that are not related to gaming. For the few that we hung out in games together, the majority of time, we'd go find a quiet corner somewhere and just talk about non-game related things most of the time.
People who have nothing in common but games and who do nothing but play games together are not friends IMO.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Why thankful for anything? You control how you make friends and choose according?
Frankly i am not interested in online friendship .. i have enough real world friends. People just have different preference on making friends.
Frankly i am not interested in online friendship .. i have enough real world friends. People just have different preference on making friends.
But I don't control how/who I meet. Through a small change of events it could be that I would have missed out on meeting any one of them and missing out on the friendships that have developed from those online interactions would be a real shame to me.
I'm not judging you on your choice of or source of friends- certainly it's difficult to keep up with and even keep track if you have a great, great amount of them. I guess I'm personally glad that some of my good friends have come from online gaming because it helps me remember that even though current MMO communities are often cesspools (from my experience) it doesn't mean all people within them are that way and some of them may become more important to you than you'd think... given the chance.
I control the filtering but I don't control the circumstance. In many of today's MMOs the ability to meet and engage with other players seems neutered to me because of how little downtime there is and how little dependence there is on other players. It cripples the social aspect of the game and while I can appreciate where today's MMOs have come to improve the "game" portion of the abbreviation I personally never looked to MMORPGs to be no downtime action games. I play FPS and fighting games if that's the gameplay I seek.
I have no need for the entire community to be good, I've survived WoW after the community became toxic (mostly after cross server anything) but it certainly made my experience in game worse off from that point on. The problem is that for me MMORPGs are not so much a console game where there happens to be other people around as it is an arena or stage that has content as background and the interactions with other gamers is the valued content.
I can play the game as I would a console and have goals to get whatever trinket or widget drop from whatever monster but the reason I play MMORPGs is to find interesting people to party with then see how that party interacts with whatever dev content we choose to pursue.
It's not about the content or the challenge, it's about fellowship and fun.
didnt read:
but as a casual, I am easily bored of MMO time sinks. I see past them, for what they really are. Filler,,,,
I rather play for fun,
not play to unlock fun.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
This is my life sir. The second half
In hardcore groups you will end up booted if you keep missing raids. At the workplace you will be booted if you don't bother to show up. In casual groups you can get away with not showing up on time/at all. The only way to get rid of the problem is to have strict rules, and when people don't meet their obligations they are kicked but most leaders prefer to be friends with everyone and avoid conflicts.
You can have casual groups that stay commited, but there are very few leaders that have what it takes to run them smoothly, most of them end up doing hardcore raiding instead.
That is the problem. MMO are GAMES, not work. I don't want to commit to a game like i commit to my work.
THe only way to get rid of the problem is LFR .. which requires NO commitment for raiding. Rules? That just make the game too serious.
"Why can someone that is ontime at work everyday, goes to the movies on time and meets friends, goes on dates at set times can't show up for a raid?"
If they *really* wanted to raid they'd be in a raid guild. So the real question is why do they say they want to do it when they don't.
While I believe I understand your point, I continue to disagree. We look for different things in the games we play. I like playing different genres for their differences and their potential; in genres like MMOs with the outstanding number of players they support I look for a more social experience because MMOs can support that and the social aspect of MMOs is better than any content the devs can give me.
Wanting to use a MMO to relax after work is the sort of tosh mentality that has made MMO's what they are today. MMO's are not your TV, go and sit in front of the TV if you want to relax.
Why should you not be expected to put some effort into a MMO? Want to chill out online? Well there are solo games for that. Why do you have to bring your couch potato attitude to every f***ing thing you do?
Sorry if I got carried away, but I have put up with this lame attitude for too many years.