Originally posted by thark think the gamers of today are cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games
I don't know if you will consider me 'mature player', but I am playing computer games since 1990.
My first mmoprg was Ultima Online and I loved it.
I also can pay subscription and actually for kind of mmorpg I would want to play most and longterm - I would prefer subsciption if that would give me no cash shop, no rmah, no gold selling enviroment.
I know one thing though. TSW will NOT pick me. I played it and it is usual, linear themepak with instanced dungeons PvE grinding and instanced PvP grinding. Also not really into mmorpg's that put most of their emphasis on story and cutscenes.
People say TSW is immersive and 'virtual worldy', but for me it is not. Cutscenes and VO does not really work for me well in mmorpg's so I was not immersed and game is zoned themepark with instaced grind so there is nothing virtual worldy about it. Not more than in Swtor or AoC.
Bit of story can be nice, but overally I am not looking for that in mmropg and even if I look for story I will create myself.
Besides I hate double dipping with their pricing.
So thanks but no thanks.
You don't like the game, thats fine..Not everyone will like TSW..
But you do not have a problem with a "price" or a subscription fee if the game you play is good in your opinion
But as It's stands ...Most players today seems to have a problem with just that..To actually pay for anything,,
My god, it's so simple! Coders should donate their time!
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
2. The FTP market generates a play everything for free mentality . They are not even considering that said game may even become more expensive than 15 $ with a cash shop etc.
so its bad to buy cash shop in FTP mmos but its totally fine to do it after paying a full priced box and a subscription in TSW?
i love the dark setting in TSW, but thats not enough to pay a sub. I dont like subs but if i were to pay a sub for TSW i expect to have every single item from the cash shop ingame with ingame money, not real money.
paying a subscription and having a cash shop full of items that can only be obtained with real money makes me feel im playing an incomplete game if i dont buy the extra stuff. So i dont pay for those foul managed games. I buy the box and play the first month for free then uninstall
2. The FTP market generates a play everything for free mentality . They are not even considering that said game may even become more expensive than 15 $ with a cash shop etc.
so its bad to buy cash shop in FTP mmos but its totally fine to do it after paying a full priced box and a subscription in TSW?
i love the dark setting in TSW, but thats not enough to pay a sub. I dont like subs but if i were to pay a sub for TSW i expect to have every single item from the cash shop ingame with ingame money, not real money.
paying a subscription and having a cash shop full of items that can only be obtained with real money makes me feel im playing an incomplete game if i dont buy the extra stuff. So i dont pay for those foul managed games. I buy the box and play the first month for free then uninstall
Hmm..I like your picture I just love King Diamond
First..I never said it was bad to buy from any cash shop..did I ..? What I ment is that a FTP game may even become more expensive than said game with subscription.
Well..The cash shop in the secret world is ...for the time beiing, only items that doesnt really effect gameplay part from looks..
It's not that there isn't clothing options available ..there is a HUGE amount of clothes in London to be bought . And sets to unlock etc.
But if it is something I will agree upon..It's still abit cheap..
Originally posted by thark think the gamers of today are cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games
Here are some issues that points to certain aspects of todays markets.
1 The to YOUNG crowd ..to get a monthly subscription fee payd by their parents. We have a massive increase in gamers over the years, most are young and without any income .
This in itself generates hate not only towards said parents , but unfortunatly it creates hate towards developers aswell. If I cant play this game, I will hate it and spread ill rumours about it.
2. The FTP market generates a play everything for free mentality . They are not even considering that said game may even become more expensive than 15 $ with a cash shop etc.
3 . The current BETA FREE LOADERS and cheapscates. More and more players DEMAND to play a game for a few weeks before launch, othervise they claim to NOT be playing at all.
What happens in many cases is that before the beta is over many has had their fun in the game, so why even bother paying ..Half the game is even spoiled, wich makes it even harder for said person to really commit to the game..
Sure, having a good beta may even draw in some customers, but the people with money do not run around and play betas..Not in the bigger scope of things atleast. This is ofcourse my opinion, I may be wrong in this, but I think the majority of the beta players are only there to play for free and then set the game as "played"
4. The PIRATE and torrent market, this one affects the MMO market aswell , even thou we do not think so..It creates a general free to play mentality in itself.
Software should be free, why am I suppose to be paying for an MMO when I can play Skyrim absolutly free.
Hopefully the market changes eventually, but I'm starting to wonder..really.
I'm not sure why you think that The Secret World necessarily attracts or will continue to attract mature gamers just because it has a sub attached and I'm not sure what makes you think people with money don't play betas. I've got a good job and plenty of money and I play betas. I also played TSW beta and for a month after launch and I didn't find the content particularly any more engaging as a mature player than any other game. I don't think that monsters, blood, swearing and a few puzzles make a mature game (to be honest the puzzles are probably easily doable by people in their late teens) or maybe mature for people who want to feel a bit more grown up. I didn't stop playing because it had a sub and I wouldn't continute to play even if I thought the sub would attract a more mature community. The cost of the game plus sub wasn't an issue for me.
Amongst other mmos I play LOTRO (I guess it's one of your kiddie games) which is F2P and what makes it mature gaming for me is the guild I play with and the level of RP that takes place, there are also some complex emotional engagement with quests as well (the death of Theodred at the Isen was moving). It just doesn't follow that kids play the F2P sword and sorcery games and adults with a decent income play sub based games with a setting like TSW. LOTRO on Laurelin has a very mature community and is a F2P game. The best mmos are what you make of it and if it has the flexibility to allow that level of engagement. The criteria for me has always been, and always will be, is it a game I enjoy playing and at the right level of emotional complexity (not game complexity as we all know LOTRO is very easy to play) and with a community to engage me as an adult? At the moment LOTRO does that and TSW didn't i'm afraid. I'm sure there are thousands of mature gamers out there not playing TSW, maybe there are ways of attracting them, but at the moment there is nothing that will attract me back to it.
Im trying to make sence in this mess, I don't understand how players can have a problem with dishing out 15$/month for a game that lasts longer than ANY singleplayer game with a cost for few beers or a movie ticket.
I think maybe you are starting from the premise that it's a game worth $15 a month to play. Because you like the game, and that's your opinion and fair enough, you find it difficult to understand why people don't sub to TSW. As i've said already the price of the sub isn't the problem with TSW, at least not for me.
Originally posted by thark think the gamers of today are cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games
I don't know if you will consider me 'mature player', but I am playing computer games since 1990.
My first mmoprg was Ultima Online and I loved it.
I also can pay subscription and actually for kind of mmorpg I would want to play most and longterm - I would prefer subsciption if that would give me no cash shop, no rmah, no gold selling enviroment.
I know one thing though. TSW will NOT pick me. I played it and it is usual, linear themepak with instanced dungeons PvE grinding and instanced PvP grinding. Also not really into mmorpg's that put most of their emphasis on story and cutscenes.
People say TSW is immersive and 'virtual worldy', but for me it is not. Cutscenes and VO does not really work for me well in mmorpg's so I was not immersed and game is zoned themepark with instaced grind so there is nothing virtual worldy about it. Not more than in Swtor or AoC.
Bit of story can be nice, but overally I am not looking for that in mmropg and even if I look for story I will create myself.
Besides I hate double dipping with their pricing.
So thanks but no thanks.
You don't like the game, thats fine..Not everyone will like TSW..
But you do not have a problem with a "price" or a subscription fee if the game you play is good in your opinion
But as It's stands ...Most players today seems to have a problem with just that..To actually pay for anything,,
Let me get this straight. Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?
Plus are you also saying it should remain sub based because otherwise it will attract a less mature gamer?
I play World of Warcraft and DC Universe Online currently. One is a subscription only game, one has a free-to-play option. I subscribe to both of them.
I guess they are kiddie games according to the OP, but I wonder if that makes me a "kiddie" for playing them. Interesting thought. Yet, I am 39, four children (oldest 19, youngest only 2), a professional author (yes-- published, yes--award nominated), professional PnP RPG designer and publisher, and make a decent income.
Yet, after trying TSW, I will not pay a subscription for that game. I didn't find the game particularly good from a gameplay standpoint, I found the puzzles simplistic, and the overall theme trying too hard to be "dark and mature" and instead coming off as lackluster and artificial.
I play World of Warcraft and DC Universe Online currently. One is a subscription only game, one has a free-to-play option. I subscribe to both of them.
I guess they are kiddie games according to the OP, but I wonder if that makes me a "kiddie" for playing them. Interesting thought. Yet, I am 39, four children (oldest 19, youngest only 2), a professional author (yes-- published, yes--award nominated), professional PnP RPG designer and publisher, and make a decent income.
Yet, after trying TSW, I will not pay a subscription for that game. I didn't find the game particularly good from a gameplay standpoint, I found the puzzles simplistic, and the overall theme trying too hard to be "dark and mature" and instead coming off as lackluster and artificial.
According to OP, you're a kiddie, because you play a popular game like WoW. He hates everything, that is popular. As seen by the fact he didn't answer my last post.
He tries to use age as an argument to sell TSW, he and Funcom both failed miserably, so I don't think you'll see him here again.
However, if you said you were subbing to TSW, you'd be just fine.
Originally posted by thark think the gamers of today are cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games
I don't know if you will consider me 'mature player', but I am playing computer games since 1990.
My first mmoprg was Ultima Online and I loved it.
I also can pay subscription and actually for kind of mmorpg I would want to play most and longterm - I would prefer subsciption if that would give me no cash shop, no rmah, no gold selling enviroment.
I know one thing though. TSW will NOT pick me. I played it and it is usual, linear themepak with instanced dungeons PvE grinding and instanced PvP grinding. Also not really into mmorpg's that put most of their emphasis on story and cutscenes.
People say TSW is immersive and 'virtual worldy', but for me it is not. Cutscenes and VO does not really work for me well in mmorpg's so I was not immersed and game is zoned themepark with instaced grind so there is nothing virtual worldy about it. Not more than in Swtor or AoC.
Bit of story can be nice, but overally I am not looking for that in mmropg and even if I look for story I will create myself.
Besides I hate double dipping with their pricing.
So thanks but no thanks.
You don't like the game, thats fine..Not everyone will like TSW..
But you do not have a problem with a "price" or a subscription fee if the game you play is good in your opinion
But as It's stands ...Most players today seems to have a problem with just that..To actually pay for anything,,
being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?Let me get this straight. Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite
Plus are you also saying it should remain sub based because otherwise it will attract a less mature gamer?
Just trying to work through the argument.
My argument is that the fee is not expensive, ..I do not think that was hard to understand.
My points in my initial post refer to .."reasons" IMO why players all of a sudden has started to feel that a subscription fee for a AA title is out of the question..
"being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?Let me get this straight. Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite "
Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean by this ..at all.
Originally posted by thark think the gamers of today are cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games
I don't know if you will consider me 'mature player', but I am playing computer games since 1990.
My first mmoprg was Ultima Online and I loved it.
I also can pay subscription and actually for kind of mmorpg I would want to play most and longterm - I would prefer subsciption if that would give me no cash shop, no rmah, no gold selling enviroment.
I know one thing though. TSW will NOT pick me. I played it and it is usual, linear themepak with instanced dungeons PvE grinding and instanced PvP grinding. Also not really into mmorpg's that put most of their emphasis on story and cutscenes.
People say TSW is immersive and 'virtual worldy', but for me it is not. Cutscenes and VO does not really work for me well in mmorpg's so I was not immersed and game is zoned themepark with instaced grind so there is nothing virtual worldy about it. Not more than in Swtor or AoC.
Bit of story can be nice, but overally I am not looking for that in mmropg and even if I look for story I will create myself.
Besides I hate double dipping with their pricing.
So thanks but no thanks.
You don't like the game, thats fine..Not everyone will like TSW..
But you do not have a problem with a "price" or a subscription fee if the game you play is good in your opinion
But as It's stands ...Most players today seems to have a problem with just that..To actually pay for anything,,
being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?Let me get this straight. Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite
Plus are you also saying it should remain sub based because otherwise it will attract a less mature gamer?
Just trying to work through the argument.
My argument is that the fee is not expensive, ..I do not think that was hard to understand.
My points in my initial post refer to .."reasons" IMO why players all of a sudden has started to feel that a subscription fee for a AA title is out of the question..
"being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?Let me get this straight. Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite "
Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean by this ..at all.
Probably because you've chopped and garbled my original post and now it doesn't make sense.
Here it is again:
"Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?"
I play World of Warcraft and DC Universe Online currently. One is a subscription only game, one has a free-to-play option. I subscribe to both of them.
I guess they are kiddie games according to the OP, but I wonder if that makes me a "kiddie" for playing them. Interesting thought. Yet, I am 39, four children (oldest 19, youngest only 2), a professional author (yes-- published, yes--award nominated), professional PnP RPG designer and publisher, and make a decent income.
Yet, after trying TSW, I will not pay a subscription for that game. I didn't find the game particularly good from a gameplay standpoint, I found the puzzles simplistic, and the overall theme trying too hard to be "dark and mature" and instead coming off as lackluster and artificial.
Hmm..Ok. ..So you think I label everyone that plays a certain game " a kiddie" ?
Please re-read my initial posts in that case..I may be a bit rusty on the communication skills since English is not my first language..But that was NOT what I ment, far from it..
I have played both of those games myself and I'm even older than you Not that 39 or 45 is old , mind you !!
The article is about why we all of a sudden find gamers that express them selfs like..(Obvioiusly both young and old )
-If I am going to play this game they better have it free to play, or else I won't play it ..
There could be several reasons for this, and this is what the article really is about..Nothing else.
I play World of Warcraft and DC Universe Online currently. One is a subscription only game, one has a free-to-play option. I subscribe to both of them.
I guess they are kiddie games according to the OP, but I wonder if that makes me a "kiddie" for playing them. Interesting thought. Yet, I am 39, four children (oldest 19, youngest only 2), a professional author (yes-- published, yes--award nominated), professional PnP RPG designer and publisher, and make a decent income.
Yet, after trying TSW, I will not pay a subscription for that game. I didn't find the game particularly good from a gameplay standpoint, I found the puzzles simplistic, and the overall theme trying too hard to be "dark and mature" and instead coming off as lackluster and artificial.
Hmm..Ok. ..So you think I label everyone that plays a certain game " a kiddie" ?
Please re-read my initial posts in that case..I may be a bit rusty on the communication skills since English is not my first language..But that was NOT what I ment, far from it..
I have played both of those games myself and I'm even older than you Not that 39 or 45 is old , mind you !!
The article is about why we all of a sudden find gamers that express them selfs like..(Obvioiusly both young and old )
-If I am going to play this game they better have it free to play, or else I won't play it ..
There could be several reasons for this, and this is what the article really is about..Nothing else.
Perhaps you should answer my last post. (on page 2, that you conviniently ignored completely).
You say right now, that you don't label everyone who plays a certain game a kiddie. Yet 2 days ago you said: "Yes..WoW ..is still a "kiddie" game.." You have never raided, you know nothing about difficulty, yet your TSW is so hard and requires much brains to play. Basically you'd be a noob in WoW, which you so much hate, you'd be a casual scrub, who knows nothing about raiding (hard content).
At least delete your previous response, before talking completely out of your ass.
Originally posted by thark think the gamers of today are cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games
I don't know if you will consider me 'mature player', but I am playing computer games since 1990.
My first mmoprg was Ultima Online and I loved it.
I also can pay subscription and actually for kind of mmorpg I would want to play most and longterm - I would prefer subsciption if that would give me no cash shop, no rmah, no gold selling enviroment.
I know one thing though. TSW will NOT pick me. I played it and it is usual, linear themepak with instanced dungeons PvE grinding and instanced PvP grinding. Also not really into mmorpg's that put most of their emphasis on story and cutscenes.
People say TSW is immersive and 'virtual worldy', but for me it is not. Cutscenes and VO does not really work for me well in mmorpg's so I was not immersed and game is zoned themepark with instaced grind so there is nothing virtual worldy about it. Not more than in Swtor or AoC.
Bit of story can be nice, but overally I am not looking for that in mmropg and even if I look for story I will create myself.
Besides I hate double dipping with their pricing.
So thanks but no thanks.
You don't like the game, thats fine..Not everyone will like TSW..
But you do not have a problem with a "price" or a subscription fee if the game you play is good in your opinion
But as It's stands ...Most players today seems to have a problem with just that..To actually pay for anything,,
being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?Let me get this straight. Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite
Plus are you also saying it should remain sub based because otherwise it will attract a less mature gamer?
Just trying to work through the argument.
My argument is that the fee is not expensive, ..I do not think that was hard to understand.
My points in my initial post refer to .."reasons" IMO why players all of a sudden has started to feel that a subscription fee for a AA title is out of the question..
"being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?Let me get this straight. Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite "
Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean by this ..at all.
Probably because you've chopped and garbled my original post and now it doesn't make sense.
Here it is again:
"Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?"
Ohh really sorry If i messed something up..I only copied what you wrote to quote it..Your initial post is still there above..
Well..yes there are players ..alot actually, that sais they won't play certain games because they have a subscription fee.
IMO 50-60$ + 15$/month for entertainment is not much money, but It could be much money for a person that has limited funds, and when more than half the MMO's on the market has started to become FTP it feels less and less reasonable for said individual to pay for entertainment that usually is free .
I gave several reasons in my initial post why It may be like this. , when did we actually start to get cheap with an already cheap hobby ?
I play World of Warcraft and DC Universe Online currently. One is a subscription only game, one has a free-to-play option. I subscribe to both of them.
I guess they are kiddie games according to the OP, but I wonder if that makes me a "kiddie" for playing them. Interesting thought. Yet, I am 39, four children (oldest 19, youngest only 2), a professional author (yes-- published, yes--award nominated), professional PnP RPG designer and publisher, and make a decent income.
Yet, after trying TSW, I will not pay a subscription for that game. I didn't find the game particularly good from a gameplay standpoint, I found the puzzles simplistic, and the overall theme trying too hard to be "dark and mature" and instead coming off as lackluster and artificial.
Hmm..Ok. ..So you think I label everyone that plays a certain game " a kiddie" ?
Please re-read my initial posts in that case..I may be a bit rusty on the communication skills since English is not my first language..But that was NOT what I ment, far from it..
I have played both of those games myself and I'm even older than you Not that 39 or 45 is old , mind you !!
The article is about why we all of a sudden find gamers that express them selfs like..(Obvioiusly both young and old )
-If I am going to play this game they better have it free to play, or else I won't play it ..
There could be several reasons for this, and this is what the article really is about..Nothing else.
I just don't think it's true that all of a sudden TSW is suffering from a wave of players that only want F2P games. You are blaming the sub for people not wanting to play and not the game itself. It's a pointless discussion if you can't move from the position that the game is simply not worth a sub and that's why we aren't playing. You'll just find yourself getting more and more confused as to why people aren't playing. It's quite simple really.
I'll happily sub to a game I enjoy and think is worth the sub.
Originally posted by thark think the gamers of today are cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games
I don't know if you will consider me 'mature player', but I am playing computer games since 1990.
My first mmoprg was Ultima Online and I loved it.
I also can pay subscription and actually for kind of mmorpg I would want to play most and longterm - I would prefer subsciption if that would give me no cash shop, no rmah, no gold selling enviroment.
I know one thing though. TSW will NOT pick me. I played it and it is usual, linear themepak with instanced dungeons PvE grinding and instanced PvP grinding. Also not really into mmorpg's that put most of their emphasis on story and cutscenes.
People say TSW is immersive and 'virtual worldy', but for me it is not. Cutscenes and VO does not really work for me well in mmorpg's so I was not immersed and game is zoned themepark with instaced grind so there is nothing virtual worldy about it. Not more than in Swtor or AoC.
Bit of story can be nice, but overally I am not looking for that in mmropg and even if I look for story I will create myself.
Besides I hate double dipping with their pricing.
So thanks but no thanks.
You don't like the game, thats fine..Not everyone will like TSW..
But you do not have a problem with a "price" or a subscription fee if the game you play is good in your opinion
But as It's stands ...Most players today seems to have a problem with just that..To actually pay for anything,,
being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?Let me get this straight. Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite
Plus are you also saying it should remain sub based because otherwise it will attract a less mature gamer?
Just trying to work through the argument.
My argument is that the fee is not expensive, ..I do not think that was hard to understand.
My points in my initial post refer to .."reasons" IMO why players all of a sudden has started to feel that a subscription fee for a AA title is out of the question..
"being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?Let me get this straight. Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite "
Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean by this ..at all.
Probably because you've chopped and garbled my original post and now it doesn't make sense.
Here it is again:
"Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?"
Ohh really sorry If i messed something up..I only copied what you wrote to quote it..Your initial post is still there above..
Well..yes there are players ..alot actually, that sais they won't play certain games because they have a subscription fee.
IMO 50-60$ + 15$/month for entertainment is not much money, but It could be much money for a person that has limited funds, and when more than half the MMO's on the market has started to become FTP it feels less and less reasonable for said individual to pay for entertainment that usually is free .
I gave several reasons in my initial post why It may be like this. , when did we actually start to get cheap with an already cheap hobby ?
There's a lot of players who won't pay for another FUNCOM game too. What kind of category do you have for them?
Some would rather pay their 50-60+15 on Sims, if they had to choose. It's the kiddies! They wouldn't pay for a Funcom game.
Maybe you should try to understand, that it isn't about being cheap, it's about wasting money on a questionable company. I bet that's too hard for you to see, though.
Originally posted by thark I know gw2 is cheaper overall, but it has alot less in production value than TSW . Naturally its the gamers that choose, and it seems to be pointing towards cheap
I lol'ed so hard...
really dude, still laughing my a... off
GW 2 cheap production... rofl xD
xDDD
( 3 years in Age of Conan have taught me that money thrown at Funcom is a bad thing...).
Originally posted by thark I know gw2 is cheaper overall, but it has alot less in production value than TSW . Naturally its the gamers that choose, and it seems to be pointing towards cheap
I lol'ed so hard...
really dude, still laughing my a... off
GW 2 cheap production... rofl xD
xDDD
( 3 years in Age of Conan have taught me that money thrown at Funcom is a bad thing...).
As I said earlier, he hates everything that is popular. You see ridiculous reasons to why FC should earn 2 mill subs etc, it's just because FC has such a mature game with same ideas as over 10-year old games have.
Originally posted by HeroEvermore I love your enthusiasm. Sadly TSW is a moneysink for Funcom now. Thankfully they have some decent investors and shouldn't bite the bucket from it. AoC probably making money still. I mean 200k total units sold in 2 months. Ouch. How many still even subbed. Usually 60% of mmorpg gamers don't make it to the 3rd month of a game. I wish your game the best of luck though and I am only commenting in astonishment that only 200k units sold. Considering how hyped it was on here.
TSW is cash flow positive for Funcom. That's the opposite of a money sink.
Good that you guys know so much about company economy without having any serious numbers, want to work for mine?
Problem is there is no invest without serious plans and a good return on investment (COMPANIES always do worst and best case) And im very sure funcom had a even worser case for their strategy. I am pretty sick of this company going to sink or going to rise threads and speaking even the writers have no real clue about their management systems and their plans, they just repeat what others said in another thread, thats annoying.
I play World of Warcraft and DC Universe Online currently. One is a subscription only game, one has a free-to-play option. I subscribe to both of them.
I guess they are kiddie games according to the OP, but I wonder if that makes me a "kiddie" for playing them. Interesting thought. Yet, I am 39, four children (oldest 19, youngest only 2), a professional author (yes-- published, yes--award nominated), professional PnP RPG designer and publisher, and make a decent income.
Yet, after trying TSW, I will not pay a subscription for that game. I didn't find the game particularly good from a gameplay standpoint, I found the puzzles simplistic, and the overall theme trying too hard to be "dark and mature" and instead coming off as lackluster and artificial.
Hmm..Ok. ..So you think I label everyone that plays a certain game " a kiddie" ?
Please re-read my initial posts in that case..I may be a bit rusty on the communication skills since English is not my first language..But that was NOT what I ment, far from it..
I have played both of those games myself and I'm even older than you Not that 39 or 45 is old , mind you !!
The article is about why we all of a sudden find gamers that express them selfs like..(Obvioiusly both young and old )
-If I am going to play this game they better have it free to play, or else I won't play it ..
There could be several reasons for this, and this is what the article really is about..Nothing else.
Perhaps you should answer my last post. (on page 2, that you conviniently ignored completely).
You say right now, that you don't label everyone who plays a certain game a kiddie. Yet 2 days ago you said: "Yes..WoW ..is still a "kiddie" game.." You have never raided, you know nothing about difficulty, yet your TSW is so hard and requires much brains to play. Basically you'd be a noob in WoW, which you so much hate, you'd be a casual scrub, who knows nothing about raiding (hard content).
At least delete your previous response, before talking completely out of your ass.
I'm sorry ..I didnt ignore your post..I simply missed It. I went back and read it..:)
You do make some good points, and yes you are right not every inch of WoW should be labeled easy, I more than well understand that . Ohh I have been raiding thou, not in WoW but in other games.
Sure If it pleases you, I overreacted abit, naturally not all players of WoW should be labeled "kiiddies" My neigbour still plays WoW and hes certainly not a kid. so..you are right..
As you said..WoW is the most "popular" MMO , that is also why they have the largest portion of that game made "super easy" , only but a fraction of it's players actually plays the game you are refering to.
I don't hate WoW..I shun what has become of ..the hobby we once knew as a whole, I'd like a challenge in my games, much like you obviously , as you are playing "hard raids" in WoW. I like to think , use tactics and learn from my mistakes.
But ...This is also not what I'm really discussing here..It's about why ..the market for games all of a sudden has become cheap..It's about the effect of FTP titles and low production cost titles versus high production value titles that all of a sudden more less going to be forced to go FTP .
Originally posted by thark think the gamers of today are cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games
Here are some issues that points to certain aspects of todays markets.
1 The to YOUNG crowd ..to get a monthly subscription fee payd by their parents. We have a massive increase in gamers over the years, most are young and without any income .
This in itself generates hate not only towards said parents , but unfortunatly it creates hate towards developers aswell. If I cant play this game, I will hate it and spread ill rumours about it.
2. The FTP market generates a play everything for free mentality . They are not even considering that said game may even become more expensive than 15 $ with a cash shop etc.
3 . The current BETA FREE LOADERS and cheapscates. More and more players DEMAND to play a game for a few weeks before launch, othervise they claim to NOT be playing at all.
What happens in many cases is that before the beta is over many has had their fun in the game, so why even bother paying ..Half the game is even spoiled, wich makes it even harder for said person to really commit to the game..
Sure may add that having a good beta may even draw in some customers, but the people with money do not run around and play betas..Not in the bigger scope of things atleast.
4. The PIRATE and torrent market, this one affects the MMO market aswell , even thou we do not think so..It creates a general free to play mentality in itself.
Software should be free, why am I suppose to be paying for an MMO when I can play Skyrim absolutly free.
Hopefully the market changes eventually, but I'm starting to wonder..really.
Why should there be a monthly sub for a game? Explain other than complaining that people don't like to pay it.
It is not the gamers that need to change it is the gaming companies. Sticking with the same old tired game design does not help sell games - TOR found that out. Gaming companies need to innovate or die.
GW2 shows that companies can innovate if they want to. They just need to get off there lazy butts and do it. Once that happens maybe then you will see a different type of gamer.
If you read my post I think I more than well explained why people are cheap..If you think you precious GW2 devs doesn't want your money ..Well think again..They will charge you..and in the end it will be more/less the same as a standard MMO..
I know gw2 is cheaper overall, but it has alot less in production value than TSW . Naturally its the gamers that choose, and it seems to be pointing towards cheap
Seems to be pointing towards fun and well-made to me rther than cheap.
I play World of Warcraft and DC Universe Online currently. One is a subscription only game, one has a free-to-play option. I subscribe to both of them.
I guess they are kiddie games according to the OP, but I wonder if that makes me a "kiddie" for playing them. Interesting thought. Yet, I am 39, four children (oldest 19, youngest only 2), a professional author (yes-- published, yes--award nominated), professional PnP RPG designer and publisher, and make a decent income.
Yet, after trying TSW, I will not pay a subscription for that game. I didn't find the game particularly good from a gameplay standpoint, I found the puzzles simplistic, and the overall theme trying too hard to be "dark and mature" and instead coming off as lackluster and artificial.
Hmm..Ok. ..So you think I label everyone that plays a certain game " a kiddie" ?
Please re-read my initial posts in that case..I may be a bit rusty on the communication skills since English is not my first language..But that was NOT what I ment, far from it..
I have played both of those games myself and I'm even older than you Not that 39 or 45 is old , mind you !!
The article is about why we all of a sudden find gamers that express them selfs like..(Obvioiusly both young and old )
-If I am going to play this game they better have it free to play, or else I won't play it ..
There could be several reasons for this, and this is what the article really is about..Nothing else.
I just don't think it's true that all of a sudden TSW is suffering from a wave of players that only want F2P games. You are blaming the sub for people not wanting to play and not the game itself. It's a pointless discussion if you can't move from the position that the game is simply not worth a sub and that's why we aren't playing. You'll just find yourself getting more and more confused as to why people aren't playing. It's quite simple really.
I'll happily sub to a game I enjoy and think is worth the sub.
Ok..For SOME players ...the game is not worth a sub, because they think it's a terrible game , I absolutly do not argue this the slightest.
I don't see where i pointed out that its about ALL players , maybe it's a large group but certainly not everyone, It feels large to me atleast.
Originally posted by thark think the gamers of today are cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games
I don't know if you will consider me 'mature player', but I am playing computer games since 1990.
My first mmoprg was Ultima Online and I loved it.
I also can pay subscription and actually for kind of mmorpg I would want to play most and longterm - I would prefer subsciption if that would give me no cash shop, no rmah, no gold selling enviroment.
I know one thing though. TSW will NOT pick me. I played it and it is usual, linear themepak with instanced dungeons PvE grinding and instanced PvP grinding. Also not really into mmorpg's that put most of their emphasis on story and cutscenes.
People say TSW is immersive and 'virtual worldy', but for me it is not. Cutscenes and VO does not really work for me well in mmorpg's so I was not immersed and game is zoned themepark with instaced grind so there is nothing virtual worldy about it. Not more than in Swtor or AoC.
Bit of story can be nice, but overally I am not looking for that in mmropg and even if I look for story I will create myself.
Besides I hate double dipping with their pricing.
So thanks but no thanks.
You don't like the game, thats fine..Not everyone will like TSW..
But you do not have a problem with a "price" or a subscription fee if the game you play is good in your opinion
But as It's stands ...Most players today seems to have a problem with just that..To actually pay for anything,,
being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?Let me get this straight. Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite
Plus are you also saying it should remain sub based because otherwise it will attract a less mature gamer?
Just trying to work through the argument.
My argument is that the fee is not expensive, ..I do not think that was hard to understand.
My points in my initial post refer to .."reasons" IMO why players all of a sudden has started to feel that a subscription fee for a AA title is out of the question..
"being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?Let me get this straight. Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite "
Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean by this ..at all.
Probably because you've chopped and garbled my original post and now it doesn't make sense.
Here it is again:
"Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?"
Ohh really sorry If i messed something up..I only copied what you wrote to quote it..Your initial post is still there above..
Well..yes there are players ..alot actually, that sais they won't play certain games because they have a subscription fee.
IMO 50-60$ + 15$/month for entertainment is not much money, but It could be much money for a person that has limited funds, and when more than half the MMO's on the market has started to become FTP it feels less and less reasonable for said individual to pay for entertainment that usually is free .
I gave several reasons in my initial post why It may be like this. , when did we actually start to get cheap with an already cheap hobby ?
There's a lot of players who won't pay for another FUNCOM game too. What kind of category do you have for them?
Some would rather pay their 50-60+15 on Sims, if they had to choose. It's the kiddies! They wouldn't pay for a Funcom game.
Maybe you should try to understand, that it isn't about being cheap, it's about wasting money on a questionable company. I bet that's too hard for you to see, though.
Not at all..It's not hard to see..and ofcourse a valid reason like every other reason..
Originally posted by thark think the gamers of today are cheap . My hope is that eventually TSW will pick up all the "mature" gamers that It really needs to survive, we need developers like FUNCOM on the market. Othervise we are stuck with super easy "kiddie" games
Here are some issues that points to certain aspects of todays markets.
1 The to YOUNG crowd ..to get a monthly subscription fee payd by their parents. We have a massive increase in gamers over the years, most are young and without any income .
This in itself generates hate not only towards said parents , but unfortunatly it creates hate towards developers aswell. If I cant play this game, I will hate it and spread ill rumours about it.
2. The FTP market generates a play everything for free mentality . They are not even considering that said game may even become more expensive than 15 $ with a cash shop etc.
3 . The current BETA FREE LOADERS and cheapscates. More and more players DEMAND to play a game for a few weeks before launch, othervise they claim to NOT be playing at all.
What happens in many cases is that before the beta is over many has had their fun in the game, so why even bother paying ..Half the game is even spoiled, wich makes it even harder for said person to really commit to the game..
Sure, having a good beta may even draw in some customers, but the people with money do not run around and play betas..Not in the bigger scope of things atleast. This is ofcourse my opinion, I may be wrong in this, but I think the majority of the beta players are only there to play for free and then set the game as "played"
4. The PIRATE and torrent market, this one affects the MMO market aswell , even thou we do not think so..It creates a general free to play mentality in itself.
Software should be free, why am I suppose to be paying for an MMO when I can play Skyrim absolutly free.
Hopefully the market changes eventually, but I'm starting to wonder..really.
I'm not sure why you think that The Secret World necessarily attracts or will continue to attract mature gamers just because it has a sub attached and I'm not sure what makes you think people with money don't play betas. I've got a good job and plenty of money and I play betas. I also played TSW beta and for a month after launch and I didn't find the content particularly any more engaging as a mature player than any other game. I don't think that monsters, blood, swearing and a few puzzles make a mature game (to be honest the puzzles are probably easily doable by people in their late teens) or maybe mature for people who want to feel a bit more grown up. I didn't stop playing because it had a sub and I wouldn't continute to play even if I thought the sub would attract a more mature community. The cost of the game plus sub wasn't an issue for me.
Amongst other mmos I play LOTRO (I guess it's one of your kiddie games) which is F2P and what makes it mature gaming for me is the guild I play with and the level of RP that takes place, there are also some complex emotional engagement with quests as well (the death of Theodred at the Isen was moving). It just doesn't follow that kids play the F2P sword and sorcery games and adults with a decent income play sub based games with a setting like TSW. LOTRO on Laurelin has a very mature community and is a F2P game. The best mmos are what you make of it and if it has the flexibility to allow that level of engagement. The criteria for me has always been, and always will be, is it a game I enjoy playing and at the right level of emotional complexity (not game complexity as we all know LOTRO is very easy to play) and with a community to engage me as an adult? At the moment LOTRO does that and TSW didn't i'm afraid. I'm sure there are thousands of mature gamers out there not playing TSW, maybe there are ways of attracting them, but at the moment there is nothing that will attract me back to it.
Not everyone like TSW..for diffrent reasons, you didnt. like the game for what it is,.thats fine..I don't know where I said my ideas included every single gamer on this planet .Taste is naturally individual.
.I played LOTRO aswell back when it was NOT FTP , as I have answered others Ill answer you. This is a AA title from the beginning that has been forced FTP because of a fluctuating changing market. You can't make this type of quality games from the beginning if you are aiming for FTP from the get go..And yes LOTRO is a mature game with a deep engaging story.
If you ever played the game before it went FTP , you didnt notice any changes in the community , did you ?
Originally posted by thark More and more players DEMAND to play a game for a few weeks before launch, othervise they claim to NOT be playing at all.
Indeed. But this, dear OP, is because games themselves have changed. Now when you can't try before you buy you're going to buy total crap with 90% probability. What's worse, even betas don't always help as engame can be very different from early game. The most recent example is D3. Leveling was fun but engame was crap. Well, at least leveling was fun.
Developers are cheap, my friend, not gamers.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Comments
You don't like the game, thats fine..Not everyone will like TSW..
But you do not have a problem with a "price" or a subscription fee if the game you play is good in your opinion
But as It's stands ...Most players today seems to have a problem with just that..To actually pay for anything,,
Software should be free.
My god, it's so simple! Coders should donate their time!
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
so its bad to buy cash shop in FTP mmos but its totally fine to do it after paying a full priced box and a subscription in TSW?
i love the dark setting in TSW, but thats not enough to pay a sub. I dont like subs but if i were to pay a sub for TSW i expect to have every single item from the cash shop ingame with ingame money, not real money.
paying a subscription and having a cash shop full of items that can only be obtained with real money makes me feel im playing an incomplete game if i dont buy the extra stuff. So i dont pay for those foul managed games. I buy the box and play the first month for free then uninstall
Hmm..I like your picture
I just love King Diamond 
First..I never said it was bad to buy from any cash shop..did I ..? What I ment is that a FTP game may even become more expensive than said game with subscription.
Well..The cash shop in the secret world is ...for the time beiing, only items that doesnt really effect gameplay part from looks..
It's not that there isn't clothing options available ..there is a HUGE amount of clothes in London to be bought . And sets to unlock etc.
But if it is something I will agree upon..It's still abit cheap..
I'm not sure why you think that The Secret World necessarily attracts or will continue to attract mature gamers just because it has a sub attached and I'm not sure what makes you think people with money don't play betas. I've got a good job and plenty of money and I play betas. I also played TSW beta and for a month after launch and I didn't find the content particularly any more engaging as a mature player than any other game. I don't think that monsters, blood, swearing and a few puzzles make a mature game (to be honest the puzzles are probably easily doable by people in their late teens) or maybe mature for people who want to feel a bit more grown up. I didn't stop playing because it had a sub and I wouldn't continute to play even if I thought the sub would attract a more mature community. The cost of the game plus sub wasn't an issue for me.
Amongst other mmos I play LOTRO (I guess it's one of your kiddie games) which is F2P and what makes it mature gaming for me is the guild I play with and the level of RP that takes place, there are also some complex emotional engagement with quests as well (the death of Theodred at the Isen was moving). It just doesn't follow that kids play the F2P sword and sorcery games and adults with a decent income play sub based games with a setting like TSW. LOTRO on Laurelin has a very mature community and is a F2P game. The best mmos are what you make of it and if it has the flexibility to allow that level of engagement. The criteria for me has always been, and always will be, is it a game I enjoy playing and at the right level of emotional complexity (not game complexity as we all know LOTRO is very easy to play) and with a community to engage me as an adult? At the moment LOTRO does that and TSW didn't i'm afraid. I'm sure there are thousands of mature gamers out there not playing TSW, maybe there are ways of attracting them, but at the moment there is nothing that will attract me back to it.
I think maybe you are starting from the premise that it's a game worth $15 a month to play. Because you like the game, and that's your opinion and fair enough, you find it difficult to understand why people don't sub to TSW. As i've said already the price of the sub isn't the problem with TSW, at least not for me.
Let me get this straight. Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?
Plus are you also saying it should remain sub based because otherwise it will attract a less mature gamer?
Just trying to work through the argument.
I play World of Warcraft and DC Universe Online currently. One is a subscription only game, one has a free-to-play option. I subscribe to both of them.
I guess they are kiddie games according to the OP, but I wonder if that makes me a "kiddie" for playing them. Interesting thought. Yet, I am 39, four children (oldest 19, youngest only 2), a professional author (yes-- published, yes--award nominated), professional PnP RPG designer and publisher, and make a decent income.
Yet, after trying TSW, I will not pay a subscription for that game. I didn't find the game particularly good from a gameplay standpoint, I found the puzzles simplistic, and the overall theme trying too hard to be "dark and mature" and instead coming off as lackluster and artificial.
According to OP, you're a kiddie, because you play a popular game like WoW. He hates everything, that is popular. As seen by the fact he didn't answer my last post.
He tries to use age as an argument to sell TSW, he and Funcom both failed miserably, so I don't think you'll see him here again.
However, if you said you were subbing to TSW, you'd be just fine.
My argument is that the fee is not expensive, ..I do not think that was hard to understand.
My points in my initial post refer to .."reasons" IMO why players all of a sudden has started to feel that a subscription fee for a AA title is out of the question..
"being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?Let me get this straight. Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite "
Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean by this ..at all.
Probably because you've chopped and garbled my original post and now it doesn't make sense.
Here it is again:
"Are you saying there are thousands of players out there who think this is a wonderful game but are not playing it only because of the subscription fee, despite being easily able to afford the fee, and that is the main reason why it isn't doing as well as it should be?"
Hmm..Ok. ..So you think I label everyone that plays a certain game " a kiddie" ?
Please re-read my initial posts in that case..I may be a bit rusty on the communication skills since English is not my first language..But that was NOT what I ment, far from it..
I have played both of those games myself and I'm even older than you
Not that 39 or 45 is old , mind you !!
The article is about why we all of a sudden find gamers that express them selfs like..(Obvioiusly both young and old )
-If I am going to play this game they better have it free to play, or else I won't play it ..
There could be several reasons for this, and this is what the article really is about..Nothing else.
Perhaps you should answer my last post. (on page 2, that you conviniently ignored completely).
You say right now, that you don't label everyone who plays a certain game a kiddie. Yet 2 days ago you said: "Yes..WoW ..is still a "kiddie" game.." You have never raided, you know nothing about difficulty, yet your TSW is so hard and requires much brains to play. Basically you'd be a noob in WoW, which you so much hate, you'd be a casual scrub, who knows nothing about raiding (hard content).
At least delete your previous response, before talking completely out of your ass.
Ohh really sorry If i messed something up..I only copied what you wrote to quote it..Your initial post is still there above..
Well..yes there are players ..alot actually, that sais they won't play certain games because they have a subscription fee.
IMO 50-60$ + 15$/month for entertainment is not much money, but It could be much money for a person that has limited funds, and when more than half the MMO's on the market has started to become FTP it feels less and less reasonable for said individual to pay for entertainment that usually is free .
I gave several reasons in my initial post why It may be like this. , when did we actually start to get cheap with an already cheap hobby ?
I just don't think it's true that all of a sudden TSW is suffering from a wave of players that only want F2P games. You are blaming the sub for people not wanting to play and not the game itself. It's a pointless discussion if you can't move from the position that the game is simply not worth a sub and that's why we aren't playing. You'll just find yourself getting more and more confused as to why people aren't playing. It's quite simple really.
I'll happily sub to a game I enjoy and think is worth the sub.
There's a lot of players who won't pay for another FUNCOM game too. What kind of category do you have for them?
Some would rather pay their 50-60+15 on Sims, if they had to choose. It's the kiddies! They wouldn't pay for a Funcom game.
Maybe you should try to understand, that it isn't about being cheap, it's about wasting money on a questionable company. I bet that's too hard for you to see, though.
I lol'ed so hard...
really dude, still laughing my a... off
GW 2 cheap production... rofl xD
xDDD
( 3 years in Age of Conan have taught me that money thrown at Funcom is a bad thing...).
As I said earlier, he hates everything that is popular. You see ridiculous reasons to why FC should earn 2 mill subs etc, it's just because FC has such a mature game with same ideas as over 10-year old games have.
Good that you guys know so much about company economy without having any serious numbers, want to work for mine?
Problem is there is no invest without serious plans and a good return on investment (COMPANIES always do worst and best case) And im very sure funcom had a even worser case for their strategy. I am pretty sick of this company going to sink or going to rise threads and speaking even the writers have no real clue about their management systems and their plans, they just repeat what others said in another thread, thats annoying.
I'm sorry ..I didnt ignore your post..I simply missed It. I went back and read it..:)
You do make some good points, and yes you are right not every inch of WoW should be labeled easy, I more than well understand that . Ohh I have been raiding thou, not in WoW but in other games.
Sure If it pleases you, I overreacted abit, naturally not all players of WoW should be labeled "kiiddies" My neigbour still plays WoW and hes certainly not a kid. so..you are right..
As you said..WoW is the most "popular" MMO , that is also why they have the largest portion of that game made "super easy" , only but a fraction of it's players actually plays the game you are refering to.
I don't hate WoW..I shun what has become of ..the hobby we once knew as a whole, I'd like a challenge in my games, much like you obviously , as you are playing "hard raids" in WoW. I like to think , use tactics and learn from my mistakes.
But ...This is also not what I'm really discussing here..It's about why ..the market for games all of a sudden has become cheap..It's about the effect of FTP titles and low production cost titles versus high production value titles that all of a sudden more less going to be forced to go FTP .
Seems to be pointing towards fun and well-made to me rther than cheap.
Ok..For SOME players ...the game is not worth a sub, because they think it's a terrible game , I absolutly do not argue this the slightest.
I don't see where i pointed out that its about ALL players , maybe it's a large group but certainly not everyone, It feels large to me atleast.
Not at all..It's not hard to see..and ofcourse a valid reason like every other reason..
Not everyone like TSW..for diffrent reasons, you didnt. like the game for what it is,.thats fine..I don't know where I said my ideas included every single gamer on this planet .Taste is naturally individual.
.I played LOTRO aswell back when it was NOT FTP , as I have answered others Ill answer you. This is a AA title from the beginning that has been forced FTP because of a fluctuating changing market. You can't make this type of quality games from the beginning if you are aiming for FTP from the get go..And yes LOTRO is a mature game with a deep engaging story.
If you ever played the game before it went FTP , you didnt notice any changes in the community , did you ?
Indeed. But this, dear OP, is because games themselves have changed. Now when you can't try before you buy you're going to buy total crap with 90% probability. What's worse, even betas don't always help as engame can be very different from early game. The most recent example is D3. Leveling was fun but engame was crap. Well, at least leveling was fun.
Developers are cheap, my friend, not gamers.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).