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I want the Trinity back! *sob*
Elikal
Member UncommonPosts: 7,912
in Guild Wars 2
After playing Ascalon Catas (first dungeon) in GW2 and wiping about 50 times... I WANT MY TRINITY BACK LIEK NAO!
*stomps feet* *whine* *cry* *moan*
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
Trust me i though the same. keep leveling without doing dungeon. and try again with 80's only.. it will be wayyyyyy easier and you will see how no tank can works. lot's of the bosses have concepts than are though but possible without tank. And trash will stop killing you sooo easily.
I did citadel of flame and it was WAAYYYY easier than my first try in AC at level 30
I did AC with a group and we went through it just fine :O no wipes or anything. There may be no trinity but you still need your mitigation. Can you chill enemies and kite them? Can you interrupt the casters? Can you weaken enemies? Can you heal yourselves fairly quickly? Can you perma blind someone and keep him out of the fight for a bit? Do you have any anti projectile fields? Do you pace them with your heal so your regen lasts as long as possible? Do you have burst finishers so you can give frost armor/ might/ retaliation/ aoe weaken/ aoe heal? Are they burning off their finishers when there are no combo fields?
Having damage paced so that everyone can make regen last its full length will go a long way. And having people stack their burst on a poison field can go a long way in reducing incoming damage and same with blind.
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And this ^
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No way! Never! We only just managed to get rid of the trinity, finally!
Never been a fan of trinity systems but that's what we were stuck with for a long time. It doesn't fit with the D&D origins of the games, nor ultlimately with the Tolkeinesque roots of the genre as a whole. It also presupposes the complete idiocy of any enemy you face. Let's face it, if you were a troll/gnoll/kobold/bandit and some guy kept healing this big guy with the shield in front of you, who would you kill first?
I'm still waiting for an MMO to come along with no healing at all, but proper mitigation/avoidance mechanics. Maybe one day...
Kind of proving a point here. The problem isn't the trinity doesn't exit, just people aren't generally spec'ing into rolls. Take a balanced group (doesn't need to be 100% trinity builds) and you'll not be wiping 50 time.
Just because it's not designed around the trinity, doesn't mean people should ignore rolls. You can still be tank like in this game, and you can still have healers.
If you don't mind wiping, then fine.
I never understood the zeal of some people to get rid of it. For me it is something that works. That's like saying "We have used the wheel for so long, I am tired of my cars/bikes/carts driving on wheels, let's replace the wheel with something else!" Why change something that worked, just for the sake of novelty?
And I am totally honest here: I simply do not *want* to do so much thinking, planning and reacting. I play my games for relaxtion and recreation, but that's just me.
Spock said that once, why humans in their recreation often seek out such strenuous taks is illogical, and I just can agree with him. ^^
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Its not for the sake of novelty. If you played any MMO in the past 10+ years you should know the pain it can be to have to wait for a tank or a healer, or not getting in a group because you are not a tank or a healer. I know that is whinning also, but for the love of God! its about time someone did away with that in at least ONE mmo!
Challenge isn't added to a game as a novelty~ what you're encountering is called innovation. You've already made it clear in the other thread that you're terrible at the game. Yet somehow you've managed to conquer Level 16 and are now over level 30. You conquered that challenge, you made it through enough to get to your first dungeon~ and your first knee jerk desire is to whine about your failure.
Guess what? One day, soon enough, that dungeon will be EASY to you, and you'll go to the next and fail there too. Again and again~ and then that'll become easy. Because that is the nature of human perseverance. You've already managed to take one step forward, stop using the forums as your personal dumping grounds for tears.
Games are by their nature tests of skill or ingenuity. It is based on chance, skill or strength. If you want to be entertained and to relax, read a book. That is not what video games are for. Many video games do strive for a demographic that want to watch a movie, or just engage in a story. GW2 is not that game. It won't be that game, and based on its success and how it pushes the envelope, will indeed inspire future games. So either get used to it, play a simpler game, or heaven forbid, have the self-respect to honor yourself and become a better player. When I play GW2, it's relaxing to me. This game isn't hard at all to most players.
People are hitting level 80 just by running around the world. Stop cheating yourself from a challenge. You've established you're old enough to know this in your other thread, so stop belittling yourself like a child. This isn't work. It's not hard to improve in a game of skill. There are plenty of people here willing to do so, but you're too busy not taking accountability for your own shortcomings to actually learn the mechanics behind GW2, and want to go back to something simple for you.
Expand yourself a bit~ the mmo topography is changing. Your complaint is as old as when people whined about Hybrids introduced to class rosters years ago. Things change.
Trinity doesn't make things easier. It's the combat system that determines the dificulty
GW2 was designed for no trinity and dying alot more easliy because of rezzing and downed state. Slapping a tank role on the game wouldn't connect well and ruin everything.
Also, funny thing is i remember you posting about how you found TSW, a game with trinity, far too hard and difficult. Looks like you can't one way or the other. Sorry Elikal.
Without wanting to sound over-zealous, I don't think comparing the trinity to the wheel is fair on the wheel. The wheel is a very efficient and pure design that works very, very well, in a number of different contexts.
The Trinity works, in the context in which it is set, but I don't think it's the best system that could have been used, and as I said, it doesn't really fit with the systems that led to MMO's that use a trinity. It almost feels like it was thrown in because nobody could come up with a better idea, in a game that was class based as opposed to skill based like UO was.
And do you really enjoy playing against mobs that are as dumb as a post and can't see that they shoud just kill the pesky healer first? Compare this to PvP where players will always take down healers first if possible, as they rightly should. It's just a flawed system (IMHO) that was copied from EQ and DAoC, placed into WoW and has been copied ever since because everyone thought that the WoW design model was the only way to succeed.
To use an anecdote similar to yours, Well, what's wrong with leeches? They worked for hundreds of years didn't they? We don't need this penicillin stuff. Elec-trickery? What's that? Nothing wrong with candles, I say!
Currently I am still having fun with GW2. Did storymode AC. died a lot. but it was still mostly fun. But otherwise I still have to agree with you. While I definitly like every class being able to do every role. That is not really the same thing as getting rid of the roles of tank and healer. Still allow people to move into and out of roles on the fly and don't couple any roles to any classes but. Would it be so very bad if every class had a role that could actually heal rather then pat people on the back and say "there there". And If I am supposed to be my primary healer, why does my heal have a 40 second cooldown?
Oh well. over all it is still a lot of fun. I just hope it says that way.
All die, so die well.
This might help as far as traits and actual experience goes, other than that I don't see the point since you get downleveled..
We 3 manned AC yesterday with a necro, elemental and mesmer, it took some time (around 2 hours) but by the end we were rarely dying. We had a blast! Oh and kinda spent around 40s each on repairs..
The zeal comes from the fact that trinity simplifies combat so much so that I feel like I'm being patronized. I know combat doesn't work that way outside of PvE. I know it doesn't work that way in real-life either. I am particularly appaled how even modern, sci-fi and spaceship-themed games are squeezed into this dynamic. It is outrageous! Guns and spaceships don't work like that! Ships "healing" other ships... give me a break. Show me one movie where that has happened.
The holy trinity is a cop out - a fallback mechanic when you can't come up with something different or new.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Elikal is cool. I vouch for him.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
<.< >.> <.< Ahh don't make me blush!
No, I am not joking! Why would I do that!
The trinity gave me always comfort, kinda knowing my place in the grand scheme of things, like being in a real team or what!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I would have to say that every MMO I have played, healing produces more aggro than DPS.....hence taunt, and +hate ability items and skills. If you have been thinking all these mobs were dumb as posts, leads me to think you have been playing behind some quality tanks.
The wheel worked fine, then we added rubber tires and it worked better. Just because trinity worked as you say does not mean its the only way that can work and be fun. You seem to be one of those people who when asked why something is done you say "Its the way we always did it".
It was not changed for the sake of novelty. That answer tells me you really dont understand.
I see at least 3 problems with the Trinity:
_ The leveling. Usualy it's very long/boring to level if you're a healer. And just slow if you're a tank.
_ Maybe 70% of people will choose dps, 20% healers and 10% tanks. You have to design encounters around that fact. That's why most raid boss in WoW requiere 1-2 tanks, 3 healers and 5-6 dps. But what happens if your team is 3 tanks, 1 healer and 6 dps or any other combo ? Well most of the time you can't do it. Usualy when you pug you find the dps in 5 minutes and you then spend half an hour looking for tanks or healers.
_ PvP. You have to redesign totaly how tank works in PvP. And healers can be a pain to balance too.
So to sum up: the trinity doesn't work for leveling, doesn't work for pvp and only works in raid with huge limitation about the team composition.
Well, after your last post about not wanting challenges in your MMO's and now this, I would ask you why do you even bother to play MMO's then? Go play some single player games or some FPS and you won't have any problems. If you can't have fun while being challenge then I would say MMO's are not for you. If you still want to play an MMO, then I would say good look at the hundreds of MMO's with korean grind style.
Oh, people keep forgetting GW2 did not invent the trinity-less system, it's been around for a while. When I first experienced it in another game I was also like "woot". Experience and time taught me two things: the group content has to be made dumb diown easy for random strangers to overcome it with minimal coordination. You really cannot expect to succeed by making your normal dungeons be beaten only by regular groups on vent. It's just not going to last. And once dumb down easy it becomes a zerg fest. And boring.
But hey, live and learn, anything can get better - the trinity system sure can. People really shouldnt be blindly hating on anything, in this case trinity systems because of what they are. They have expanded to a 4th role of control. Others ahave actualy, somehow, against all odds, made healing so much fun the healing classes are just as popular as any ranged DPS class - some gamers have no healer shortages at all. Same thing with tanking.
I've played freeform systems, tanking, healing and DPS. Controls is the one singel role that has never suited me but I play the others depending on the mood and the quality or nature of my guild at the time. You can't condemnt "trinity" so much as condemnt the way one specific game handles it and even then - it's your own taste. Others might actually like it.
The trinity - less system in GW2 has interstingly nothign to do with why the game didnt click with me and found it boring. there were other reasons involved. But I reading the grouping experiences with people so far it's aready easy to see where it will all go based on my experiences. Those dungeons will be nerfed, it's pretty inevitable. you'll be left with joke dungeons some might enjoy and others just quit out of pointlesness.
Go try other games and see how they handle trinyity roles. You might be surprised how some are remarkably well done. Forget WoW, that's pretty antiquated so let's leave it out of the example. But trinity weorks. And doesnt necessarily make any content faceroll. There are games where despite dedicated healing roles having importance the DPS has primary responsibility for their own survival. As we like to say, "you can't heal stupid."