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CU destroyed SWG...
Loniki
Member Posts: 6
The CU destroyed the game for non combatants. Sure everyone always looks at how the CU effected combat but it had a much farther reaching effect. The eight person limit on groups for instance. I was an entertainer, I had an entertainers PA. We had weekly parties on Kett that were the largest on the server for a time. We would have huge entertainer groups and it was a lot of fun. When the CU hit, that all ended. I watched how members would show up, there was no more room in the group, and often left. This also happened to large guild hunts and hurt them too. The eight person group killed my entertainer PA.
Then there was the combat levels that became a part of the CU. As an entertainer my combat lvl was 1. It was no longer safe to leave a city or drive my AV-21, status of being a successful entertainer.
Jedi... they multiplied. As a Jedi you can participate in like 90 percent of the content in SWG and you even get a extra charactor slot to pursue the other 10%. As an entertainer I was lucky to be able to enjoy 10% of the content and to enjoy the rest, I needed a second account. I had been playing SWG since its start. I had been making content in the game. I had been playing longer then many of the new jedi in the game. Jedi add to the problems of SWG, I didn't, but I didn't rate a second charactor slot. The resentment of that second slot became a driving reason on top of all the other bad changes and bugs that drove me to cancel both my accounts a couple months ago.
I played SWG a long time and yes, there are times I do miss it, but all I need to do when that happens is run over to the SWG boards and read about all the problems and the desire goes away....
Comments
Howdy! I was on Kett myself as Ico. What was your pc name/PA?
Although aspects of the CU were needed, I agree that the CU in general over stepped its bounds.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Hi Ico,
My first charactor was Mariki. She became a dancer back when Coronet Cantina was hot property. She later went to some combat and crafting and finally master rifle and ship wright. About the time I started missing the social aspects of entertainer, july 2004, I created an alt, Loniki, who became a master entertainer/ musician and went on to be a member of The Rancors for the last year. She had started the guild EU (Entertainers United) back in aug of 04. Hehe, I know its only a game but we do tend to get lost in these things when all is going well. It was depressing to see SWG make so many wrong turns. It was like the Devs were going out of their way to screw it up...
Oh, and while CU was the final nail for me, what really started all the destruction was SOE's allowance of AFK in the game. I would say that AFK did at least as much damage as the CU. Even though they said AFK was not how the game was intended, they never had the intestinal fortitude to enforce it in any way. I think they were just greedy...
OK here is the deal. You can cry all you want about the CU but there was really no option here. Let me explain...
When the CU was first being worked on, the developers and testers were tweaking it to the skill. Balancing the skills as it were. However, this would take a long time. A very long time. Up to a year of closed beta testing to tweak it properly. Even one bonus or negative in the wrong spot would kill the whole thing. Kind of like building a house of cards. One wrong move, exhale to hard, even sneeze, and it all falls down.
A few days/weeks before the CU alot of stuff happened. Posts from the testers began appearing and being deleted so fast you could hardly haev a chance to read them. Several testers were banned. See, the developers put out a new patch to the CU. It changed everything. Instead of balancing to the skill it balanced to the level. I call it The CU Guide for Dummies. It was the easy way out.
The reason is when they realized it would take a year of just closed testing they werent too happy. They wanted this out for ROTW. And by God it was coming out one way or another. So the CU went from being a very balanced to the skill full on conversion to a balanced to the CL patch. You got some of the new skills and such and the new HAM and armor. But for the most part the CU went completely in the other direction.
Why do I say they had no choice? Because the game was getting much worse. I dare say it wouldnt have survived another year in the condition it was in. Not to mention the CU actually cost alot of developer man power having to crunch numbers and such. So they had to rework it. It was their fault to begin with because they had been warned. First by beta testers then by live players that the game needed a major overhaul. But they didnt listen. They waited til the last minute and when they realized they had no more time, they tossed out a quick fix.
Does this mean the CU doesnt work? Aye it works so far. But it still has alot of work left to be done. 8 months by my count. But most of it can be done live and that is a big bonus for a community that was about to walk out enmasse because of a ficticious CURB. They got a few professions to finish. Ranger is going combat apparently, Smuggler needs his missions, and SL is on the block getting carved up now. Then its time to do the crafter and item part. I am sure I will lose my T21 then. And finally comes the big GCW additions to bring it up to speed. And the CU will be done.
It didnt do what it promised. But it did stem the flow of blood. Before the CU, there were more people leaving then joining. Now there are more people joining then leaving. Its a very slow climb. But it is climbing. It didnt bring back all the lost players from release like they promised, but it did save the game from an agonizing death.
And if the hints I have been seeing are true then the future could be bright as well. We might see the destruction of a majority of jedi, a rebirth in the GCW, and quite possibly the game we were promised before release. However this is SOE and LA we are talking about here. I will believe it when I see it live and not before.
The developers have alot to atone for before this player starts to trust them again. I might come back to hunt jedi but I will also be a thorn in the developers rumps as before.
Kai
Kai... you say it would have taken months and months to tweak.. yet in the same post, you say it'll take 8 months to get the CU right?
So the better idea was to shove the buggy CU through and drive away the playerbase.. push the mess and tweak it for the next year?
Over keep the players, work on player-suggested tweaks.. and actually keep the game we all fell in love with intact?
They would have had overwhelming support from the community. They would have sold MANY more copies of Kashyyyk and Mustifar... and their subscriptions would be up.
The CU didn't bring new people in. The expansion and the multi-million dollar marketing campaign did. The CU drove people away, many more than it brought back to "give it a whirl"
I've read the design notes, and they were on the right track. They'd have fixed all the gun-related classes with a simple increase in Pistol damage, and a decrease in HAM cost for Carbines.
That, and a decrease in armor encumbrance and protection, and halving buffs... would have made us just as fragile as we are now. And that's just a quick start. They could have done this easily.
But without gimping crafters. Without killing entertainers. Without the bugged CH patch. Without a million Jedi.
The REAL reason we have this system is that a re-skinned EQ2 engine is easier than fixing issues. Cuts down on development costs.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
If they had stuck with what they had and not put out the CU version that they did release, they would have lost a hell of alot more players then they did with the CU. Because the CU would not have been released in any form until around May 2006. And if you had actually played back then (I am seriously beginning to doubt you have ever played the game) then you would know this. People were already walking back in January.
There would not have been a kashykk or mustafar or anything since nearly all their resources were going into the CURB and its skill based balance. They would have had zero support from the community and you know it. By the beginning of 2005 the community nerves were wearing thin. How do you think they would have taken the following announcement?
"The expected release date for the CURB is now May 2006. Maybe later. Because of all the work we are putting into it we wont be able to release any new content or major fixes. Thank you for your time."
They might as well just link the cancel page to that announcement if they had given it. Players were ready to leave. Most were just waiting for that kind of announcement.
Oh and trust me here. If by some miracle they had released the CURB as was originally visioned, that all the players just loved, you would have still lost a large chunk of the player base. Just as many would have walked. Most of the people that walked are people that were afraid of change. Or they were the lazy players that wanted the game to play itself so they could just mash the most powerful attack and shout "I WIN!".
And alot did come back. According to the chart its slowly going up since the CU hit. There was a drop but people are rejoining or trying it out for the first time. I came back in June and July.
Kai
And I've been accused of making stuff up.
They could have eased out rebalancing in steps. EASILY. They patch a few of the GAPING issues (Especially the carbineer killing themselves with specials) first. Then add more in the next couple months.
The manpower issue you brought up was B.S. because the Kashyyyk expansion and the CU people were TWO DIFFERENT TEAMS. The only reason that the CU was pushed out so soppily was because they made the boneheaded decision to make Kashyyyk post-CU balanced instead of pre-CU. Kashyyyk HAD to ship with Episode 3. Just like the mess that is Mustifar has to ship when the DVD hits. If they would have waited to rebalance Kashyyyk, and actually BETATESTED the CU more than 2 weeks... and actually TOOK FEEDBACK instead of banning critics and deleting criticism. Worked WITH and not AGAINST the players... we wouldn't have had this ONGOING MESS.
The people who would have walked were just delayed a month or two. There was a MASS exodus that would have easily shown up in the numbers if the numbers were truthfully reported.
80% of the playerbase HATED the CU but they launched it anyway.
A great deal of the people who rejoined have quit. A great deal of the noobs have left.
And I can't believe ANYONE still pulls the "I win" card out to argue this anymore. AFTER the CU you just make it your default attack and push it once.. the days of mashing are gone.
Give this game 2 months. The writing is on the wall, and the devs can't read.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
They could have eased out rebalancing in steps. EASILY. They patch a few of the GAPING issues (Especially the carbineer killing themselves with specials) first. Then add more in the next couple months.
You mean like they did with CH and it nerfed into uselessness for more then a year? How about when they tweaked pistoleer and one novice pistoleer could take down 3 master BHs without breaking a sweat? Or maybe when they tweaked TKa and made it the win all be all of PVP for almost a year? The players are tired of that. They get upset and walk.
That is what happens when you push something out piecemeal a few professions at a time. I thought you were smart enough to figure that out.
The manpower issue you brought up was B.S. because the Kashyyyk expansion and the CU people were TWO DIFFERENT TEAMS. The only reason that the CU was pushed out so soppily was because they made the boneheaded decision to make Kashyyyk post-CU balanced instead of pre-CU. Kashyyyk HAD to ship with Episode 3. Just like the mess that is Mustifar has to ship when the DVD hits. If they would have waited to rebalance Kashyyyk, and actually BETATESTED the CU more than 2 weeks... and actually TOOK FEEDBACK instead of banning critics and deleting criticism. Worked WITH and not AGAINST the players... we wouldn't have had this ONGOING MESS.
The CU was tested for two weeks? The CU we have now? The sandbox was around since after JTL and was where the CURB was coming from. Since alot of the CU came from the CURB the CU was tested far longer...
As I said, the CU changed before it was release, From the skill balance CURB to the level balanced CU in game. I dont know how long before the official release it happened. Could have been days or weeks. I quit because of it. Not because of the CU itself but because the developers took the easy way out. It was just before the announcement of ROTW in fact. So its quite clear they pulled some off of it and moved them to ROTW. Quite possibly at the behest of LA. Also dont forget it was just before ROTW they hired extra people.
Oh wait what am I saying? I am sure your magical invisable friend already told you all this since he sleeps with a developer's third cousin twice removed on his mom's side except after 5pm then its the second cousin once removed on his dad's side. Right?
The people who would have walked were just delayed a month or two. There was a MASS exodus that would have easily shown up in the numbers if the numbers were truthfully reported.
80% of the playerbase HATED the CU but they launched it anyway.
I wanna see proof. Come on... I wanna see an official poll right now. Dont give me this "A friend told me" crap. Give us proof.
A great deal of the people who rejoined have quit. A great deal of the noobs have left.
And a great deal more join. Before the CU, when 2 people quit, 1 person joined. Now when 2 people quit you get 3 people joining. www.mmorpgchart.com at least I got proof. You have what? Oh yah your imaginary friends....
And I can't believe ANYONE still pulls the "I win" card out to argue this anymore. AFTER the CU you just make it your default attack and push it once.. the days of mashing are gone.
Give this game 2 months. The writing is on the wall, and the devs can't read.
Nope heard it. Lets see if these ring a bell.....
"FFXI is coming next month and will kill SWG"
"Lineage 2 is coming and will kill SWG"
"Battlefront is alot better then SWG, SWG is dead in a month."
"EQ2 will surely destroy SWG."
"WoW is gonna bury SWG."
Hmmm sounds familiar to what you said. Did it happen? Nope. So what do you think I and the rest of the world will think? But dont worry I saved this thread. So I can make sure to shove down your throat in 2 months.
Kai
Need to add Shayde.
You seem to think the ROTW and ToOW expansions are some kind of hueg accomlishment and they arent. The map for Kashykk was mediocre at best. I am willing to bet they got a program with a seeder to do 90% of that work. The content was laughable. My 3 year old nephew could have come up with better content.
General Grievious was the best example. According to the explanation, some guy liked the model of grievous so much he designed a droid to look just like it. And it just happens to be able to use a lightsaber too. Wow imagine that....
Now the truth. General Grievous was modelled after a Krath War Droid. A single minded droid that had only one use. To kill jedi by attrition. You find a jedi and you send a million of these things after him and let them overwhelm the poor guy. The Krath War Droid was a pile of junk and led to the demise of the Krath culture Along with the help of Exar Kun. Armament was a short sword and pulse bow. Later models got a shield generator.
So General Grievous wasnt a unique model. And I doubt a droid engineer is going to pick that to base his droid off of. Especially with the HK and new IGs to use as inspiration.
So in fact ROTW didnt take as much work to make as we think.
Kai
I played SWG for a long, long time and while I wouldn't say the CU destroyed the game id say it destroyed what the veteran community loved about it. It took away a lot of its uniqueness and a lot of the player uniqueness that used to be possible. In my opinion, what was/is more damaging to the game than the CU is that soe are scared to do anything drastic to reduce jedi numbers (perma death just as an obvious example) - and its definately too late to do anything about it now, there would be far too many complaints from the jedi (just for reference I reached jedi hood on my alt pre-CU so im not a non-jedi preaching for perma death, rather a jedi preaching for it
). I also still cant believe they allowed the double XP (and even quad XP on my server) to work with jedi XP, it hardly helped the problem.
__________________________
Currently Following: Roma Victor, Fallen Earth, Warhammer Online.
Kai.. were you even in the beta of the CU? It was 2 weeks of testing for what they had... then a week more for RotW before it pushed.
The "sandbox" or alpha phase wasn't even tested externally. I had access to the sandbox forums through a friend's account. They never even had a build to test. The concepts that were discussed were never implimented. They scrapped all the concepts and took the EQ2 engine and reskinned it. I'm sure that was an executive decision... which is why we all now have EQ2 analogues to compare to. Cool down timers.. roots... all the EQ2 fantasy crap.
80% of EVERY daily CU test poll said "Hate the cu". They reset the poll every day, and every day it came up 80% HATE. on a scale of 1-5.
The subscription numbers are questionable, but I know there's MUCH less people on Intrepid. My friends list of over 150 people has maybe 20 people at MOST on it. I know from our own forums, that only at MOST 1/3 of the people who used to play have left the game. Towns are empty. Anyone who had played pre-CU can tell you the server is MUCH less populated.
We'll never have accurate numbers until they give us them. They won't give us anything but what makes their stock look better... they'll never show a loss.
Just look at their last press release. They said "Over a million sold" not "Over a million subscribers" What does it tell you about a game that sold a million, yet has 200,000 subscribers? 20% stayed? Oh yeah.. great game.
Oh, and Mustifar sucks BTW.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
That.. and to add one thing to your vaunted MMORPGCHART numbers...
The last report was JUNE of this year. The CU and RotW were released mid-may, and the PEOPLE WHO CANCELLED IN PROTEST WERE STILL ACTIVE ACCOUNTS UNTIL MID-JUNE. They were counted as such.
They also had the numbers of the noobs who bought the expansion to give it a try.
And the Vets who returned to give it a look.
Those numbers were JUNE. and do NOT reflect anyone who left over the CU. Not a one.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Here we go again with your so called "friends" again. "A friend told me" or "A friend's account". I thought we covered this one already.
They never said a million subscribers. They said a million copies sold. And as Erillion was so quick to shove down my throat, that meant a million copies of SWG base, JTL, and ROTW. Not 1 million subscribers. I believe the word they used was franchizes. Which is a media term for media copy. Go ask your invisable friend. I am sure he knows someone who can confirm this for you.
Oh and you werent there then when the guys from the CU and the sandbox started posting what was really going on. I am seriously beginning to questions if you ever played the game as long as you say. I think you started playing a few weeks ago and just began pulling stories out of thin air.
They were testing the CURB even before ROTW was announced. The testers got upset that the developers were taking the easy way out and wanted everyone to know. Just because you didnt get into ROTW beta until 2 weeks before the release, doesnt mean the beta was only two weeks long. I was given an invite to ROTW after I had quit (they love linux users) and that was right when it was announced. I believe March '05???
Lastly the chart goes to July. Check the 100k to 700k table. Its showing a small rise. It doesnt show the hundreds of billions your eluding too that left. I guess Drop Dead Fred told you so that makes it true huh?
And I hate Mustafar too. Which is why even if I do come back I wont buy it. I wont support SOE and LA's stupid logic or pay for yet another useless bug filled commercial.
Kai
Here is the actual article for you to read since you werent playing when it was first announced...
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setView/news/gameID/6/showArticle/3399
And here is the opening line...
"LUCASARTS ANNOUNCES NEW STAR WARS GALAXIES EXPANSION PACK AS FRANCHISE UNIT SALES SURPASS ONE MILLION"
Key words here are franchise unit sales. Not subscribers. Which means copies of the game sold. And with that the great mighty know-it-all-under-the-sun Shayde has been proven wrong yet again.
Or do you have another imaginary friend who met Smedley at a secret meeting in an underground carpark at midnight last week just to ask about this for you, that you want to tell us about?
Kai
Ok, I'll type slower so you get it.
THEY said a million. THEY gave that number. THEY lied.
So let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say HALF of that is the main game. Of that 500k, LESS THAN HALF actually still play it.. according to the chart. Some vote of confidence.
And you're DEAD WRONG on the MMORPG chart numbers. The last update to his SITE was June 10th 2005. So that's the LATEST the last orange triangle is. That is where it is on ALL the charts. So it STILL doesn't take into consideration ANY of the cancellations. NONE.. NADA.
Really.. do you think $OE would give the numbers in their annual report that says "Subscriptions Plummet"?
That is a snapshot of time when SWG's subscribers were at its apex in 2005. All the veterans were still playing, most holding their breath praying that the CU either wouldn't be pushed or wouldn't suck as bad as everyone said. There was an influx of noob blood due to the expansion. This total was BEFORE the cancellations were officially out of the tallies, and AFTER all the noobs came in and the exiles came back for a spin of the CU.
I also find it suspect that the EQ2 numbers follow an identical track that the SWG numbers do... further backing up the Access pass totals being factored into both games.
I was in the beta of the CU since the 2nd round. I tested this mess and sent a ton of feedback to the devs. All ignored. The daily polls on the sony website had 80% of the response "1-Hate the CU" DAILY. They deleted the poll and reset it daily.. STILL 80% HATE. They had an online petition of over 100 thousand valid subscribers begging for them to not push the CU. The testers weren't mad about any of the backstory.. they were mad that they were replacing the game they loved with an absolute mess that was broken and unplayable. I know what went down. I was there... leading protests in Theed the day before push... getting banned on the sony boards for being too critical of the CU. I fought to make this a better game, all for NOTHING.
So until we see some REAL numbers that reflect the people who quit because of the CU, and those who quit after they came back.. I'll still say the game is dying. Why? Because of all the people I know who played SWG RELIGIOUSLY, only 10-15 still do. That's of a community of over 200 active players. The cities are emptier, the players are dwindling.
You can impuign my sources all you want, they've never given me any info that was wrong. Your numbers are false, get over it.
But at least we do agree on one thing.. Mustifar Blows.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
But at least we do agree on one thing.. Mustifar Blows.
Agree, Im in the beta and its total garbage. $30 for a few quests and a bunkerhouse and vehicle.....whoopie.
Why doesnt SOE just go the EQ2 route and let me buy the items I want and skip the dumb pointless quests they add (which half dont work right). Id rather get my bunkerhouse and see the mining ship quest get fixed, thats almost worth $30 at this point pfftt
THEY said a million. THEY gave that number. THEY lied.
So let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say HALF of that is the main game. Of that 500k, LESS THAN HALF actually still play it.. according to the chart. Some vote of confidence.
Again you still dont get it. Is there someone there with an education above the 6th grade to help you with the big words?? FRANCHIZE UNITS SOLD!!! That means copies. Consider it the easy way so your brain doesnt explode trying to add 2 +2 here. 400k copies of base, 300k copies of JTL, and 300k copies of ROTW. That is called easy math and what does that equal? Oh my.... 1 MILLION!!!!!! Wow. Not to mention double and triple accounts. I had 3 myself. And 2 had JTL. Thats 5 copies right there. If 300k players all had that you got over 1 million.
This isnt exact numbers but when you start dividing the 1 million by the 3 different franchizes, add in the double and triple accounts, also dont forget TE which counts as 3 if only one is sold... Maybe then you start getting the picture..
And you're DEAD WRONG on the MMORPG chart numbers. The last update to his SITE was June 10th 2005. So that's the LATEST the last orange triangle is. That is where it is on ALL the charts. So it STILL doesn't take into consideration ANY of the cancellations. NONE.. NADA.
Really.. do you think $OE would give the numbers in their annual report that says "Subscriptions Plummet"?
They have before. Especially when EQ took a dive and when SWG dropped from holocrons. Thank you very much...
That is a snapshot of time when SWG's subscribers were at its apex in 2005. All the veterans were still playing, most holding their breath praying that the CU either wouldn't be pushed or wouldn't suck as bad as everyone said. There was an influx of noob blood due to the expansion. This total was BEFORE the cancellations were officially out of the tallies, and AFTER all the noobs came in and the exiles came back for a spin of the CU.
Wasnt it you who said the players would have supported the CU and yet now you say they didnt want it to be pushed back. hmmmmm You need to go reread what you type for now on before you post so you can keep your story straight..
I also find it suspect that the EQ2 numbers follow an identical track that the SWG numbers do... further backing up the Access pass totals being factored into both games.
I was in the beta of the CU since the 2nd round. I tested this mess and sent a ton of feedback to the devs. All ignored. The daily polls on the sony website had 80% of the response "1-Hate the CU" DAILY. They deleted the poll and reset it daily.. STILL 80% HATE. They had an online petition of over 100 thousand valid subscribers begging for them to not push the CU. The testers weren't mad about any of the backstory.. they were mad that they were replacing the game they loved with an absolute mess that was broken and unplayable. I know what went down. I was there... leading protests in Theed the day before push... getting banned on the sony boards for being too critical of the CU. I fought to make this a better game, all for NOTHING.
Now I know your full of it. First you tell us you used your friends account to see the CU and now you say you were in the CU tests.. Either you lied when you said you used your friend's account to see the beta CU or your lying now. Which is it?
"The "sandbox" or alpha phase wasn't even tested externally. I had access to the sandbox forums through a friend's account. They never even had a build to test"
And you said they never had a test to build yet all the testers from day ONE said they had a CURB to test. I remember the original 12 talking about what they were allowed to talk about... Or are you calling them all liars?
So until we see some REAL numbers that reflect the people who quit because of the CU, and those who quit after they came back.. I'll still say the game is dying. Why? Because of all the people I know who played SWG RELIGIOUSLY, only 10-15 still do. That's of a community of over 200 active players. The cities are emptier, the players are dwindling.
Dont forget you and your imaginary friends said the game is dead in 2 months. I will hold you to it. Because if it isnt dead I am shoving this post right down your throat....
You can impuign my sources all you want, they've never given me any info that was wrong. Your numbers are false, get over it.
I am not impuning any of your sources because you have none. At least I threw up the chart. What have you thrown up?? *looks at ALL of shayde previous posts* Nothing but your "imaginary friends"....
But at least we do agree on one thing.. Mustifar Blows.
At least with Erillion he tries to base his statements off facts. You just think somethign sounds good and start typing not even realizing how much damage your doing to people who really do want to change this game for the better.
You know what? You no longer exist to me. I am going to ignore your posts for now and just imagine they say "lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie" to make this all easier. Thanks for saving me time. See you in 2 months when I remind of your statements here. If your still here, something tells me you will leave before then so you wont have to face it...
Kai
Kai.. you STILL need to read slower. Either that or work on your comprehension. I apologize in advance if English isn't your first language.
I'll respond to your green point by point.
1. The franchise units sold... I FREAKING SAID THAT MAYBE HALF WERE SWG. You're factoring in WAY too much for the expansions, figuring that JTL didn't ship until after a year and Kashyyyk wasn't picked up by anyone who quit after the CU. They said a mil total... I'm estimating that half that is the base game, SINCE IT WAS OVER A YEAR UNTIL ANY EXPANSION SHIPPED. JTL was recieved pretty well, but Kashyyyk wasn't near that.
2. Annual reports put the best spin on things. They'd obviously use the best numbers possible. They couldn't lie outright since they already took a hit in cancellations over the last year, so they'd obviously use whatever upswing they can tweak the numbers to give, that what they are doing is improving subscribers.
3. "Pushed" is a beta term that is synonomous with "Publish". It means when you take the beta build and "Push" it to live. So therefore "praying that the CU either wouldn't be pushed or wouldn't suck as bad as everyone said" meant that the Vets were praying the mess of a CU never was pushed to live. Not pushed BACK. I typed it as slow as I could.
4. To clarify. I used a friend's account to see the SANDBOX discussion. The pre-cu design work. I said there was no build, because he had no access to a build to test at the time. HE was told there was no build, and I could find no evidence of it. I was in the Beta of the CU tat we have now... was in it since the second round of invites. I bug reported it, I discussed it on the forums, and I rallied against it. It happened anyway.
In my experience there WAS no pre-cu test of the sandbox design. I was told this by not only the person who gave me access, but another friend in the sandbox. That there WAS no pre-cu game test before they put the CU on the testserver. If you have any information to prove that wrong, I welcome it. I'll admit when I'm wrong.
5. Dead in 2 months... that is an estimate on how well I think they are handling the game. It is a prediction like "The Jets are going down in the first round of the playoffs" a guess based on facts at hand.
6. What facts have you thrown up? Inaccurate MMORPG chart info. You use FACTS to prove me wrong, not claims that my friends are imaginary. Ignore me if you want, you know I'm right on the MMORPG chart numbers you grasp to so despirately.
If you don't like my facts, prove them wrong. I'm still waiting.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Why do I get deja vu a plenty in this thread ?
Or maybe we HAVE chewed out these things in a half a dozen threads already
Have fun
Erillion
The following is a series of PM's between myself and SirBruce, of MMORPGCHART fame, on DDO, where we were both waiting for Beta.
There it is, from the horse's mouth, as the saying goes.
The figures used to construct the site come from the companies themselves. There is no guarantee of the accuracy of the numbers posted, as they are only obtained from the Company's in question.
The CHART is just as accurate as any market analysis will provide, in fact it's used in many documentations including analyses and white papers, and business plans.
The inaccuracies arise only in that most companies are not telling the truth, especially in SOE's case where anything they say becomes reality in their minds, but that is also the same problem a market analyst will face.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I believe my point still stands.
MMORPGChart is not, and should not, be treated as the "truth" as far as a particular games subscription numbers are concerned.
Those who do treat it as "gospel" are deluded beyond all ability to reason with.