"even though they churn out content faster than any other MMO since AC"
- TBH, I'm not all that interested in 'churned out content.' In fact, churning it out leaves me a bit wary about when they'll hit the bottom of the barrel... even if it starts out top-notch.
Then again, taking their time on it isn't a guarantee of quality either.
And that is why WE love Arena Net, they care for they players first and profit after. Thats why they made best MMO.
Look at Bioware and Funcom they are only trying to milk the players, ToR going F2P with probably paid content updates and TSW has cash shop + sub + box fee, no wonder they sold only 200k copies.
Thank you Arena Net for reviving MMO genre !!!
haha really? keep living in your fantasy word, i mean come'on havent you learned anything from the past 5 years of mmo's?
Arena Net is a company just like any other, its all about profit. the second its more worth milking the players instead of feeding them free content they will do so.
free content = bait to keep you until expansion and induce you to buy from the gem store.
im not saying there is ANYTHING shady about this at all, this is just how it has always worked.
Originally posted by Psychow Good to know I won't have to pay for any expansions from this "responsible" company! Yay!!
You have to pay for expansions. You don't have to pay for updates. By updates they mean small content updates, new zones etc. An expansion would unlock a new entire continent.
I like the 'promises' and i hope they go through with it but i also hope they are not biting on more than they can chew by saying stuff like 'reponsible companies'.
They are indirectly calling companies like Trion irresponsible? even though they churn out content faster than any other MMO since AC. I would say Trion is also very responsible company. Anet is lumping everyone together into one group by making statement like that.
i dont think they are aiming at Trion with that statement. Trion is actively adding free content updates to the game. The only difference is that Rift has a sub. I think Colins statement fits all mmos that charge for all content updates or lock players until they pay (hybrid freemium models) and TSW with its ridiculous "insert your moneys here" anywhere you look. IMO
if that is how it is it also applys to a few NCsoft gameslike Aion Eu n Linage 2 n other i dont remember now. isnt ncsoft pubishing gw2?
absolutely, but NCSOFT didnt affect GW1 negatively so i doubt they will do it with GW2 specially after the successful sales so early.
EDIT: i may be wrong but ANET has more control over its own game than NCSOFT as its publisher
NCSOFT as owner of Anet has ultimate control. They have thus far appeared content to not look the proverbial gift horse in the mouth.
And that is why WE love Arena Net, they care for they players first and profit after. Thats why they made best MMO.
Look at Bioware and Funcom they are only trying to milk the players, ToR going F2P with probably paid content updates and TSW has cash shop + sub + box fee, no wonder they sold only 200k copies.
Thank you Arena Net for reviving MMO genre !!!
Do you mean the royal we? Because not everyone is living in your -- player first profit after -- fantasy world.
I really hope millions of people play GW2 not only because I really love the game but because I want this model to become the one new MMOs want to copy. Bring on the price war for my love!!!!
"Check out our FREE game with FREE updates! Only $60 to play completely for FREE! And of course you can unlock additional FREE features and advantages by using our cash shop!"
I swear, if you say the word 'Free' enough about your product, people will pay anything to get their hands on it, and will throw money at you to support it being free. But hey, these guys are responsible and altruistic.
It's more free than $15 a month for updates.
That's rationalization for you. And nonsense.
There aren't degrees of a product being free. Either you paid something for it, or you paid nothing. I gaurantee that someone is paying for the content. They're not doing this out of the kindness of their hearts, or out of any sense of 'responsibility', despite what their PR will tell you.
So, what do I get if you're wrong? I mean, you're throwing out guarantees, and they usually come with something to back it up.
Anyway, you can't have it both ways. So many people have talked about how Anet won't make enough money to keep the game going without subscriptions. Even with a mostly cosmetic/xp boost CS. Most people agree that the box price A) recoups their production costs of the original game and fund development of further expansions (at least the upfront costs). Most everyone also agrees that the CS won't bring in as much as a sub on average so it's just there to offset some costs. Now, I agree that the content is paid for in terms of Anet has to pay to develop it. But, as I'm sure everyone here knows, it is being given to the players for free. Which means to me that the costs of developing and implementing these free content updates was built into the original price for the game. That makes the game an even better value than first thought.
Is it a marketing tool? Sure. To keep you interested to buy their expansions. They are a business to sure, but they've apparently made the decision that they don't need $billions to keep the business successful.
I've never talked about the game not making enough money. I also disagree that CS brings in less than subs, and I've made the opposite argument in previous threads.
So you agree that "free" content has to be paid for? Great. Then I guess I won't have to come up with a back up to my gaurantee, since you already know that I'm right.
I mostly disagree that the updates are going to come from the upfront cost of the purchasing the game, and I say mostly because I think if they do tap into that revenue, it will only be for a short period and for a minor amount. I believe, as do many others, that the development of the bulk of the "free" content will be driven primarily by cash shop sales, and as such you can expect that content to fluctuate based on CS sales.
There's no question to the value of this game, and for certain people who manage to avoid the cash shop entirely, they're going to reap enormous benefit from those who use it regularly. However, I take issue when a game company makes the assumption that their playerbase are morons and will believe a line like, '... we’d prefer to give a lot of it to you for free, cause that’s what we think a responsible MMO company does!'
Who are these guys kidding? Content isn't free. It is paid for by the few % who dump a crap load of money into the game. Now you may think this is a good idea as you get to play for cheap while others support your broke arse ... but this always bites you in the ass with f2p games as the entire game slowly becomes engineered to support those who fork over the money. Actual free to play players will start seeing themselves gated out of nearly every high end feature.
I'll give Anet props though ... they are successfully brain washing their playerbase into thinking they provide a charity service to wanting gamers. The truth is that they are here to make money and their payment structure will start reflecting this as the months go by. F2p is the utlimate carrot on a stick. That is the entire foundation of the concept.
I agree that small content additions should be free no matter what the payment plan but payment revenue is expected by any company. They can only juice the small % who actually throw money at the CS so much before it becomes unfair for all. They are expected to pay too much even for them and gating becomes a massive problem. There has to be a balance where every player is expected to pay something at some time or everyone suffers.
See that's funny because Anet actually allows players to transfer their ingame money to the cash shop. Making the whole cash shop just another tradepost for what we can earn in game. And doesn't take much to get whatever you want out of it. Heck i already upgraded to the deluxe bought some nice looking gear (for the looks since they have no stats) and acouple of pets. ALL WITH IN GAME MONEY. but yes you're right the people that fork over $20+ to the cash shop with have access to more content than i ever will. What was I thinking? Prolly just brain washed like the rest of the people. Silly me. And as for content updates go. If an expansion does release in the future i will buy it. Giving me another 150+ Hours of quality gaming with my homies :P with no sub fee's or any other reason to drop real money into it.
"Check out our FREE game with FREE updates! Only $60 to play completely for FREE! And of course you can unlock additional FREE features and advantages by using our cash shop!"
I swear, if you say the word 'Free' enough about your product, people will pay anything to get their hands on it, and will throw money at you to support it being free. But hey, these guys are responsible and altruistic.
It's more free than $15 a month for updates.
That's rationalization for you. And nonsense.
There aren't degrees of a product being free. Either you paid something for it, or you paid nothing. I gaurantee that someone is paying for the content. They're not doing this out of the kindness of their hearts, or out of any sense of 'responsibility', despite what their PR will tell you.
So, what do I get if you're wrong? I mean, you're throwing out guarantees, and they usually come with something to back it up.
Anyway, you can't have it both ways. So many people have talked about how Anet won't make enough money to keep the game going without subscriptions. Even with a mostly cosmetic/xp boost CS. Most people agree that the box price A) recoups their production costs of the original game and fund development of further expansions (at least the upfront costs). Most everyone also agrees that the CS won't bring in as much as a sub on average so it's just there to offset some costs. Now, I agree that the content is paid for in terms of Anet has to pay to develop it. But, as I'm sure everyone here knows, it is being given to the players for free. Which means to me that the costs of developing and implementing these free content updates was built into the original price for the game. That makes the game an even better value than first thought.
Is it a marketing tool? Sure. To keep you interested to buy their expansions. They are a business to sure, but they've apparently made the decision that they don't need $billions to keep the business successful.
I've never talked about the game not making enough money. I also disagree that CS brings in less than subs, and I've made the opposite argument in previous threads.
So you agree that "free" content has to be paid for? Great. Then I guess I won't have to come up with a back up to my gaurantee, since you already know that I'm right.
I mostly disagree that the updates are going to come from the upfront cost of the purchasing the game, and I say mostly because I think if they do tap into that revenue, it will only be for a short period and for a minor amount. I believe, as do many others, that the development of the bulk of the "free" content will be driven primarily by cash shop sales, and as such you can expect that content to fluctuate based on CS sales.
There's no question to the value of this game, and for certain people who manage to avoid the cash shop entirely, they're going to reap enormous benefit from those who use it regularly. However, I take issue when a game company makes the assumption that their playerbase are morons and will believe a line like, '... we’d prefer to give a lot of it to you for free, cause that’s what we think a responsible MMO company does!'
That line is utter bullshit.
But that line is not utter bullshit. Yes, the content is paid for in that the people and materials used to create and implement it is paid for by Anet. What Colin was saying is that we, the players, won't have to pay to get the content. It's just implemented into the game. So, it is given as a free item. (by your reckoning, nothing is free, even things given away for free, because it cost money to make said item - which is true, from a certain point of view) The point he was making is that no one was forced to pay any extra to play the game in its entirety, and no one will be forced to pay any extra for the content updates.
So, if you don't use the CS - and I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of players don't and that you overestimate how much is generated by a CS like that in GW2 - you are, in fact, getting the content for free. It's basically like the marketing tool of "buy this product, get this other for free!" You are not paying for the second item directly. The cost of that is offset by other things within the producing company and even sometimes eaten by that company just for marketing purposes.
Of course, we won't know anything for sure about Anet's budget until they publish it, so this is all conjecture about how the content is paid for. But, truth be told, the content is given freely - meaning without extra charge - to the players.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Originally posted by Nanfoodle I really hope millions of people play GW2 not only because I really love the game but because I want this model to become the one new MMOs want to copy. Bring on the price war for my love!!!!
^^^^^^ OMG this!
Yes people... this is the whole point... always has been. To stick a pitchfork in the eye of the greedy behemoth that is WoW. WoW would be 10000 times better without a sub. It certainly doesn't warrant a sub. You paid for the development when you bought the game. Everything that you pay them after that is beyond profit... it's outright robbery.
More people need to open their eyes and realize that we have the power to change the model... we do! All it takes is a united front. Change will come, swiftly, if the playerbase chose not to pay a subscription to play a game they arlready paid for.
That's why Arena.net calls it a revolution... it's not about playing GW2 as much as sending a message that we don't want to pay a subscription to play video games any more.
Aent is hitting their competition, namely the Subcription model in general, at every opportunity!
They are REALLY trying to sell/push on the whole "why pay for THAT game with a sub fee when you can get all THIS from US for free?"
I happen to agree with them, and have already spent 40$ on gems lol so they've got almost 3 months sub fee out of me already... after less than 2 weeks! Sneaky bastards...
Which means they are responsible to their shareholders aren't they?
It is nice they intend to give free content, but games are a business and you can bet for any signifcant content that there will be cost associated with it, just like GW1 which we don't mind paying for.
I'm sure they will have some free content, but dont forget they released several expansions with GW1 that players were charged for.....I'd imagine in a few months GW2 will roll out an expansion and be looking for another 30-50 dollars from its customer base......
Comments
Give it a rest Kadepsyson.. You hate GW2 and love Eve. Why are you here? Did you know there is an Eve forum here on this very site?
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
"even though they churn out content faster than any other MMO since AC"
- TBH, I'm not all that interested in 'churned out content.' In fact, churning it out leaves me a bit wary about when they'll hit the bottom of the barrel... even if it starts out top-notch.
Then again, taking their time on it isn't a guarantee of quality either.
haha really? keep living in your fantasy word, i mean come'on havent you learned anything from the past 5 years of mmo's?
Arena Net is a company just like any other, its all about profit. the second its more worth milking the players instead of feeding them free content they will do so.
free content = bait to keep you until expansion and induce you to buy from the gem store.
im not saying there is ANYTHING shady about this at all, this is just how it has always worked.
You have to pay for expansions. You don't have to pay for updates. By updates they mean small content updates, new zones etc. An expansion would unlock a new entire continent.
NCSOFT as owner of Anet has ultimate control. They have thus far appeared content to not look the proverbial gift horse in the mouth.
Do you mean the royal we? Because not everyone is living in your -- player first profit after -- fantasy world.
REALITY CHECK
I've never talked about the game not making enough money. I also disagree that CS brings in less than subs, and I've made the opposite argument in previous threads.
So you agree that "free" content has to be paid for? Great. Then I guess I won't have to come up with a back up to my gaurantee, since you already know that I'm right.
I mostly disagree that the updates are going to come from the upfront cost of the purchasing the game, and I say mostly because I think if they do tap into that revenue, it will only be for a short period and for a minor amount. I believe, as do many others, that the development of the bulk of the "free" content will be driven primarily by cash shop sales, and as such you can expect that content to fluctuate based on CS sales.
There's no question to the value of this game, and for certain people who manage to avoid the cash shop entirely, they're going to reap enormous benefit from those who use it regularly. However, I take issue when a game company makes the assumption that their playerbase are morons and will believe a line like, '... we’d prefer to give a lot of it to you for free, cause that’s what we think a responsible MMO company does!'
That line is utter bullshit.
See that's funny because Anet actually allows players to transfer their ingame money to the cash shop. Making the whole cash shop just another tradepost for what we can earn in game. And doesn't take much to get whatever you want out of it. Heck i already upgraded to the deluxe bought some nice looking gear (for the looks since they have no stats) and acouple of pets. ALL WITH IN GAME MONEY. but yes you're right the people that fork over $20+ to the cash shop with have access to more content than i ever will. What was I thinking? Prolly just brain washed like the rest of the people. Silly me. And as for content updates go. If an expansion does release in the future i will buy it. Giving me another 150+ Hours of quality gaming with my homies :P with no sub fee's or any other reason to drop real money into it.
Yours truly,
A customer for life.
But that line is not utter bullshit. Yes, the content is paid for in that the people and materials used to create and implement it is paid for by Anet. What Colin was saying is that we, the players, won't have to pay to get the content. It's just implemented into the game. So, it is given as a free item. (by your reckoning, nothing is free, even things given away for free, because it cost money to make said item - which is true, from a certain point of view) The point he was making is that no one was forced to pay any extra to play the game in its entirety, and no one will be forced to pay any extra for the content updates.
So, if you don't use the CS - and I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of players don't and that you overestimate how much is generated by a CS like that in GW2 - you are, in fact, getting the content for free. It's basically like the marketing tool of "buy this product, get this other for free!" You are not paying for the second item directly. The cost of that is offset by other things within the producing company and even sometimes eaten by that company just for marketing purposes.
Of course, we won't know anything for sure about Anet's budget until they publish it, so this is all conjecture about how the content is paid for. But, truth be told, the content is given freely - meaning without extra charge - to the players.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
^^^^^^ OMG this!
Yes people... this is the whole point... always has been. To stick a pitchfork in the eye of the greedy behemoth that is WoW. WoW would be 10000 times better without a sub. It certainly doesn't warrant a sub. You paid for the development when you bought the game. Everything that you pay them after that is beyond profit... it's outright robbery.
More people need to open their eyes and realize that we have the power to change the model... we do! All it takes is a united front. Change will come, swiftly, if the playerbase chose not to pay a subscription to play a game they arlready paid for.
That's why Arena.net calls it a revolution... it's not about playing GW2 as much as sending a message that we don't want to pay a subscription to play video games any more.
Which means they are responsible to their shareholders aren't they?