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So I know I'm in the minority....
dais
Member UncommonPosts: 95
....but does any one else besides me *not* like the level scaling in GW2? Don't get me wrong, I understand what they were trying to go for. You have the freedom to choose where you want to go to level, and if you are a completionist you can stick around well past the time you would normally have to leave a zone. And on paper it sounds great. When I was following Guild Wars 2 during development I was telling my wife "See, I can still play when you aren't online, but I can go back and help you and we will still be the same level". In practice however I hate it. If it's a feature that every player just absolutely loves then why not make it optional, like a prompt or checkbox? My experience so far is only up to a 33 Warrior, so this may change later. It really feels like there is zero incentive to level, and you don't *feel* like the epic hero of a story. In other games there is a clear metric that you can see your character gaining in power because challenges in the past are now trivial to you. All the explanations that have been given where people defend it say "It's boring to go back and one shot things, go team Anet!". In case anyone has forgotten sometimes it's FUN to do that! If you played WoW for a fair amount of time admit it, you went to goldshire and one shot Hogger and spat on his corpse. And you did it because at that level he was hard, and he may have killed you. It's fun to look back on things like that and say "Look how far I have come". Also for a role playing game it's a huge immersion breaker. You can be 'Rocktar, Slayer of Dragons, Warmaster of the Vigil', but you might be helping your level 13 buddy and get killed by a lvl 14 champion crab.
TLDR: As long as games have new and exciting content at max level for you to do then there is no need to have level scaling, and sometimes it's fun to roflstomp old content, because you earned that "Badass" title.
Comments
the problem is, in this game with Dynamic Events, high level players would either ruin the experience by roflstomping the DEs, or they would power level people like this. The way it is now, their is a progression, but you can't just outlevel all the content and destroy it.
If it wasn't for the DEs though I could see it being optional. Can you figure out a way for it to work? Cause i won't accept that its ok for you to come into metrica province at lvl 30 and just one shot all my Dynamic Event mobs.
Also unless your gear really sucks, or you really suck you are still going to be stronger. This game is all about players working together not one killing everything.
My theme song.
If you actually try the scaling down, it's really not that bad. At level 20, if I scale down to other stuff, I'm noticeably stronger than others who are not leveled down, and generally I just cut through enemies like butter. That being said, no, I'm not going to be able to take out an elite monster like the Champion Cave Troll in Queensdale, north of Claypool, as they were intended to always be taken on by multiple people, as far as I can tell. I might be wrong about that, but meh.
Either way, scaling down means you're still stronger than you were originally at that level, plus you'll look cooler than most others around, so you can still show off your power a good bit.
Anyway, I like it a lot, and honestly, I doubt the systmes in this game would work as well if there WASN'T level scaling. As others said above, level 80's would come in and tear shit up and ruin people's fun.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
There are ways to do it if Anet decided they wanted to. You could have a checkbox in the menu that said "Uncheck me to no longer level scale. Please note if this is unchecked you will be permanently placed in the overflow que of all zones 4 or more levels below you" etc. I'm not saying that's an ideal solution, but it's a start for brainstorming. You could still go back to zones to explore/vistas/roflstomp content, but you would be seperated from the vast majority of players.
Also as I level I do see more and more of a gap from the extremely low level stuff and where my character is at, but my issue is more about feeling like you have attained a certain status with your character, and the level scaling robbing you of that play experience. Even as a level 80 I highly doubt I could go back and solo Ascalon Catacombs due to level scaling, even though it would be 50 levels below me. As I said in my previous post I can see why Anet did it, but as the game evolves and people mature their characters they will come to realize there is a downside to it as well.
So it would just ruin the fun of people in the overflow zones? No, the only way I would not protest this feature, is if you were in your own private instance along with anyone you wanted to group with. If they wanna allow people to blow up stuff in a private zone i'm fine with that.
Also remember, with the scaling you get rewards relevant to your current level. I've gotten some of my best drops off of lvl 4 mobs while i was lvl 25 lol. That would have to change too. You should get no loot for face rolling mobs.
I really disliked it at first, but I've changed my opinion. As others have said, you're still significantly more powerful than the zone you're downleveled to.
My remaining complaint is that the scaling isn't complete. For example, if a level 10 champion kills you, you're still paying level 80 repair costs, but the event rewards don't scale to match. Waypoint costs aren't scaled either, which means you pretty much have to run everywhere when you're downleveled.
Other than the cost issues though, I have to say I now think it's great. I don't want to see it in every game, but it works well here.
You do get rewards based on your actual level.
Well you are talking about the specific minutia of solving the problem, what I am trying to describe is the bigger picture. Yes of course you wouldn't get loot for killing mobs vastly below you in level, and yes I know that the current system gives loot based off your level and not the mobs. The reason I mentioned the overflow zone is because players are only briefly in there before moving to the main world, but yes a private zone would be fine too. It could be done, but if Anet wanted to do it they would ask their development team to find a way, but I doubt it.
The bigger picture that I am trying to convey here is the second half of MMORPG, the RPG part. If you have been playing a character for 3 years, aquired an axe forged from a fire breathing dragon, diamond armor crafted by dwarves in doom hold, and the helm of legendary gladiator "Vodar the Clumsy" it's really jarring when you can't kill a level 13 crab. You have invested in your character, and you feel a sense of pride in all of your past accomplishments (that's why we have achievements). Maybe I need to stop using the crab example. In reality no matter how well geared or powerful your character is, due to level scaling there will be encounters that you just will not be able to beat unless you are in a group and it will be sufficiently challenging, even though you might outgear/outlevel it to the extreme. When you have faced much more powerful enemies it's a little silly.
Also judging from all the other posts in this thread I am in the extreme minority. With Guild Wars 2 being the most recent flavor of the month the vitriol is still thick, and people may have forgotten that there will be opinions that are different from their own.
GW2, the ultimate in virtual Communism
That is because level isn't the system that classify how hard mobs are, level is a player indicator.
Mobs have ranks.
You have common, veteran, elite, champions and legendary mobs,
Elite, Champion and Legendary mobs will always be hard.
And your premise is fake: you can kill the crab just fine and it won't pose a threath unless you are asleep, but you are still mortal,
Also part of the god effect is more a design to sell expansions and monthly fees than exactly RPG.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Nope, certainly not for money. It scales some, but not to what a level-appropriate quest would be.
To verify, I did the Queensdale Farm event at level 30 and got 18 copper. The followup email contained 45 copper. Level 30 rewards are easily three-four times that normally.
It's always been pretty unrealistic
That you could stand toe to toe with a dragon that would obviously just step on you if it even noticed you. It's the equivelant of a spider killing a human by stabbing it with a tooth pick. Point being, I know you're used to being face rolling overpowered but gw2 is trying something different. I think I and many others
Don't want to see that vision compromised. There are plenty of games that do what you ask.
its the most innovative and best feature of GW2. fact.
well, amongst a million other best features.
I messed up a part in my storyline. Big Time. My ego hurt. I wanted to go somewhere and just one-hit things to help soothe my ego. To blow off steam from messing so badly. Nowhere to go in GW2. I ended up logging off.
Like you, I also see and understand why A-Net did what they did. Most of the time, I don't really find it too roleplayus interruptus. Even Achilles had his heel
I just wish there was someplace a player could go to feel how far they had progressed. I guess one could always kill bunnies and such...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Level scaling is the stupidies thing to have in an RPG, it kills the immersion and character progression.
It favors FPS and console players that want the same difficulty all the time (i.e. system with no character progression). Level scaling is anti-RPG feature, it was the most hated feature in Oblivion.
Level scaling is a cheap way to balance the game world, in which developers can't otherwise bother with a reasonable level progression. Anet again took the easy way and it's ridiiculous to see that people actually call this an innovation. Incredible.
REALITY CHECK
I agree, in fact scaling should be a feature in all future MMO's, it means all content no matter what lvl what zone will always remain relevant, you will always be able to grp with family/friends/guildies no matter if you have out lvl'd them and still have some degree of challenge, rather than that sad old crap ppl do in WoW where you grab the highest lvl and get them to run you through a dungeon gaining 2 xp per kill and all the loot, it's boring, it's pointless for the high lvl and it just isn't worth it in the end.
Scaling is one of the best features of GW2, take that away and as it's already been said the game just wouldn't be the same.
As for the RPG element, well it adds volumes to that side of the game, no longer are you constrained by your lvl when you come across an event, your able to participate and have some input that makes sense, rather than the high lvl coming in to slaughter everything within sight within a matter of seconds, your inclusion is relevant, your able to still feel immersed in your surroundings becuase it is still a dangerous area to be in, that element of danger is what is lacking when your character is now able to stroll through that once damgerous area without a care in the world because your 40 lvls higher than the content, talk about immersive breaking and anti-rpg, that has never made sense.
Yes, mobs have ranks. They also have "levels." A level 5 bear is not as tough as a level 15 bear. Same mob. Same "rank." Differing levels.
With the downleveling that GW2 has, yes, these mobs will ALWAYS be tough. There is no way to go back and beat the snot out of that one elite mob that owned your ass back in the day. NEVER will you be able to go back and one-hit him, no matter how great your achievements are.
RPG. I just killed the biggest, baddest, most terrifying mob in all the world. I am great! On to a different zone and maybe do some world exploration. Nothing, and I mean nothing should pose a threat to me. I just saved the world! Yet here I am, outside of Divinity's Reach, trading blows with some worm, getting knocked down by some boar, and picking my way into a centaur camp. I should be able to waltz right in and clean everything out with no trouble. Thus God-mode.
This has nothing to do with sub fees or expansions. Why would I invest in something that takes away my God-mode. This new content that gives me new, tougher content to overcome?
What planet do you live on?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
The one where God-mode isn't an important factor. I could care less about whether the game gives me some misplaced sense of superiority based on superficial factors such as levels.
what level scaling? what is levels? in gw2, i dont pay attention to levels because im usually having too much fun. it's just a number on the bottom that tells me when i can enter a new zone. level 80 means absolutely nothing in this game, because the world will just keep on getting updated and you'll have to keep going back.
forget about levels, forget about "endgame". just go out, explore, craft your epix and go WvW. thats what it means to me anyway.