Am I the only one that misses leveling over years?

Gravarg · September 2012

I guess you could call me old school, or a grumpy old man, but I truly miss the old days when it took at least 6 months to level to max level. In today's games it takes maybe a week, if you're slow, to get to max level. I truly believe that in MMOs, unlike other games, the "end" should never be there. Yes, today's developers add in content for capped characters to do, but it's just not the same as leveling up. Take Guild Wars 2 for instance, I heard that a player leveled from level 1-80 in 2 days...really? That couldn't be fun at all, and it misses the whole point of MMOs. I think alot of developers (and players) have forgotten that in MMOs the "endgame" isn't what MMOs are about. It's about exploration, discovery, learning new things, and yes killing. Old MMOs had more to do with learning than today's MMOs. Today's MMOs you can log in day one, and never have to go find some spreadsheet telling you which weapon is best for your level. Today's MMOs you never have to go to a wiki, or heaven-forbid, buy an actual book with a map and how-tos, just so you don't get lost.

I know there will probably never be a game like old EQ or old DAoC or old Ultima Online or really old Neverwinter Nights, back when it took a minimum of 6 months to get to the end. Heck, in the original DAoC it took longer to get the last 2 levels than it does to get to cap in today's games. Alas, there is no real reason for developers to make games like this anymore. The majority of players aren't like me. They want thier rewards upfront and as soon as possible. They don't want to spend hours on end killing things or doing quests just to get a single level. They want 20 levels in that time.

Just my two cents from an old dinosaur lol.

Loktofeit · September 2012

I don't miss level disparity AT ALL. Leveling at different speeds from the guild or friends always meant someone or multiple someones either couldn't access content or gained no benefit from content as the group's levels spread out over time. All the band-aid and duct tape solutions introduced over the past 5 or 6 years have lessened the problem but they are still hackjob fixes to a greater problem caused by reusing a system that was broken even before it entered the MMO sphere.

I wish the EQ/FFXI flagellates would stop pitching the "old = loves grinding = old school" stuff.

Here ya go. You can get one for less than the cost of a sub and at the end of an hour of self-torture you'll at least have something to show for it.

Dewm · September 2012

I agree with ya, ....but I doubt we'll ever see those days return.

GeezerGamer · September 2012

No, you aren't

Sovrath · September 2012

I prefer a very long leveling arc.

Damage99 · September 2012

I'm with you. I miss the days of feeling attached to a character.

Thorbrand · September 2012

You are referring to MMORPGs that do not exist today. Yes I miss them, the good old days when you made your character not some template a dev said you should play. Every point you spent matter and if you gimped your character you are stuck with it or create a new one. You played in a world your character lived in. I do miss the true MMOs that where designed to replace PnP gaming. It was great when they had depth now it is all action and flash.

laserit · September 2012

I wish we would just forget about this concept of level's. I would rather log into a world and collect my gear and skill's through adventure.

I'm a fan of the virtual world.

Reizla · September 2012

I'm with OP. I started playing Lineage II (on official servers) back in 2006, and after 4 years of subscription, I never made it to maximum level. Not even on one class, let alone on any of the subs I have with my char.

Leveling these days goes way too fast (even in Lineage II). Look at GW2 now. I'm slacking as much as possible and after 90 hours my main is already 51. I know it's still slow compared to certain players, but still...

Onecrazyguy · September 2012

I miss those days as well. Gamers (in general) now don't have the attention span to handle a long leveling curve. The thought of playing one game for more than a month scares most people. So I guess we're destined to continue to get the super easy games like GW2 and now the much watered-down WoW than the games like DAoC, AC, EQ...

Silok · September 2012

No you are not the only one who miss the long leveling.

People these days think because it took time to leveling this is torture. Take FFXI for example, i never reach max lvl, and i think i was lvl 40 or 41 but still after more then 1 years of sub i never think it was a torture or grind cause if i didnt want to do some leveling i could craft, fishing, explore to find some ressource, breed my chocobos etc etc etc.

This is the essence of mmo.. mmo are time sinker well they suppose to be but now there are more like single player game 40-80 hours of gameplay if your lucky and move to the next..

The real problem and i said it more then once, now we dont have only rpg gamers in mmo but fps and action gamers too and well they have taken the market, so the devs give them what they want and forget about the other crowd.

So i dont think we will see new mmorpg in my opinion like they are suppose to be, well maibe an indie devs will create a good mmorpg but my hope are not too high.

Laughing-man · September 2012

Ah the days when leveling WAS the meat of the game...

I miss those days.

Leoghan · September 2012

I don't miss leveling over years for leveling sake. What I miss is that journey actually meaning something. Even in games like EQ people could do nothing but play and hit level caps much faster than anyone else, but EQ wasn't originally desiged for that to mean anything but give people bigger epeens. End game wasn't the focus of the first few iterations of EQ. Now all games are designed so that 90% of the time and content is dedicated to end game, the journey to end game is ignored.

Onecrazyguy · September 2012

Originally posted by laserit
I wish we would just forget about this concept of level's. I would rather log into a world and collect my gear and skill's through adventure.

I'm a fan of the virtual world.

How is that possible? People will always find a way to mark themselves based upon their progression. SWG didn't have levels yet people would say "I'm a creature handler 4433" for instance. People WANT a way to see their characters improve and be able to show others their accomplishments. Not sure what game mechanic can not be labeled while at the same time showing players progression as they play...

ohpower · September 2012

Well, play less. If you play 1h/day with a character, I can tell you it'll take you months to lvl him up. And you can spend your time doing other stuff too in the meantime.

More generally, these very long drawn out leveling phases have two problems: they create a major chasm between a very small minority who gets to max in a month and an overwhelming majority who gets to cap in a year, making it hard to create content for everyone at the same time, breaking community apart etc... and it's the best spot for gold/exp sellers, which means phising, hacking, and all the great fun.

Finally, there's also a good way for you to get over that problem; play any P2W game without paying, and grind your way through all the levels. It's not fun to me, but at least once you'll have gotten to cap, I'm sure you'll be attached to your character... to each his own I guess

arctarus · September 2012

Yap im with you OP.

Gone were the days where you slowly level and explore the contents, meaningful crafting and take your time to enjoy the game.

Where max level means something.

And such ironic that players complain about asian grind.

Yet i dont agree with devs that put millions of xp per level, or grind thousands of mobs just to level a sword skill, just because they are lazy to bring out new contents, or they dont have the time to make contents, mostly due to publisher pressure, and chunk out the game asap, hope they can earn back the development cost by box sale, and milk the players by raid or die end game...

At the end its both the players and devs fault, takes both hands to clap, and i believe we aint gona see such old school games anymore.

If Titans becomes a social game like on facebook, and succeed, than this genre that we've know and love will be truly gone...

TruthXHurts · September 2012

How many years did it take to get an Epic level character in D&D pen and paper? If you could even survive long enough to get that high. It wasn't just handed to you. The arcade style MMO tit will dry up eventually and all these cats will be crying.

Acidon · September 2012

Remember when they added the little blue line to the experience bar in EQ? So that you could almost see your XP move, representing a fraction of one bubble? That was back when there were still "hell levels".

Yes I miss those days. It was about the *journey*. It was about friends, huge guilds, player-made events, contests, weddings.

During the days of respect. Of being responsible for yourself and your name. With progression being as it was, if you created a bad name for yourself you had to live with it.

Yeah I'll stop, I'm already going off on tangents.

Yes, I miss that type of progression.

And no, you can't go back. Those games are just a shell of their former selves. Leveling has been sped up considerably and you get free great gear that's amazing for your level. No more loot rotting on corpses. etc etc. Blah.

EDIT: Yes I'm old. But i've also changed with the times and currently enjoy two great MMORPGs. Rift and TSW.

Odinthedark1 · September 2012

Lol my first mmo when iwas like 12 was Flyff (Fly For Fun) i remember hitting level 60 and it taking a month of pure grinding and still not even hitting anywhere close to 70....then i went on a pk fest, delvl'ed to level 1, lost all my gear...and quit lol...it was definately interesting and i do miss it though only for nostalgia...but it was by no means fun xD O did i forgot to mention the level cap was 150 with a rebirth system that after you hit 150 you start over and then it takes twice as long to level? pretty crazy...i couldnt imagine how long it must take in that game to hit max....i played it for a couple years and got to 40 on multiple chars with my highest getting to 65..

Dragonantis · September 2012

Long term lvling only ever benefits people who were around at the start of the game, take Atlantica Online for instance, the main players are mostly poeple who have played since the game launched, that games such a grindfest to get any sort of exp new players dont even try.

Thus the model doesnt appeal to newer players after the exp crunch of mid lvls sets in.

laserit · September 2012

Originally posted by Onecrazyguy
Originally posted by laserit
I wish we would just forget about this concept of level's. I would rather log into a world and collect my gear and skill's through adventure.

I'm a fan of the virtual world.

How is that possible? People will always find a way to mark themselves based upon their progression. SWG didn't have levels yet people would say "I'm a creature handler 4433" for instance. People WANT a way to see their characters improve and be able to show others their accomplishments. Not sure what game mechanic can not be labeled while at the same time showing players progression as they play...

IMHO it would be much cooler to fight my may through a well thought out dungeon to fulfill some bargain with a cursed warrior to recieve payment in the form of a skill, then to visit the local trainer when I ding 32.

Accomplishment could be shown by the skill's, gear and medal's you could collect as well as many other ways that are only limited by creativity.

I really like GW2's concept of collecting skill point's through places of power and challenges. This would be really cool to expand upon.

I would just like to see the genre get away from this level cap mentality.

But that's just me

Sovrath · September 2012

Originally posted by Dragonantis
Long term lvling only ever benefits people who were around at the start of the game, take Atlantica Online for instance, the main players are mostly poeple who have played since the game launched, that games such a grindfest to get any sort of exp new players dont even try.

Thus the model doesnt appeal to newer players after the exp crunch of mid lvls sets in.

I actually agree with this. There is no incentive for new players to join a game when the high level players are way beyond them.

my thought is that there should be horizontal and vertical leveling. This way the nwe players might be able to join content that the old players are doing but might not be "as effective" until they put time into their characters.

I'm not really sure what the answer is since the concept of leveling and long leveling doesn't lend well to new players joining the game.

One might say mentoring but my thought about that is "why even have levels t begin with if you can suddenly join a group and be "at level".

TruthXHurts · September 2012

Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Dragonantis
Long term lvling only ever benefits people who were around at the start of the game, take Atlantica Online for instance, the main players are mostly poeple who have played since the game launched, that games such a grindfest to get any sort of exp new players dont even try.

Thus the model doesnt appeal to newer players after the exp crunch of mid lvls sets in.

I actually agree with this. There is no incentive for new players to join a game when the high level players are way beyond them.

my thought is that there should be horizontal and vertical leveling. This way the nwe players might be able to join content that the old players are doing but might not be "as effective" until they put time into their characters.

I'm not really sure what the answer is since the concept of leveling and long leveling doesn't lend well to new players joining the game.

One might say mentoring but my thought about that is "why even have levels t begin with if you can suddenly join a group and be "at level".

There is always someone who is better than you in life. Why does anyone bother going to college? There are already thousands of college graduates who are in the workforce. This is another entitlement generation issue. You people are in for a rude awakening when you get out from your sheltered domes and realize that life isn't fair and balanced.

shrekpop · September 2012

Originally posted by GravargI know there will probably never be a game like old EQ or old DAoC or old Ultima Online or really old Neverwinter Nights, back when it took a minimum of 6 months to get to the end.

Neverwinter Nights Release date June 18, 2002

EverQuest Release date 16 March 1999

Dark Age of Camelot Release date October 10, 2001

Ultima Online Release date September 24, 1997

So the game that are most resent released are really old but the others are only old

Silok · September 2012

Originally posted by ohpower
Well, play less. If you play 1h/day with a character, I can tell you it'll take you months to lvl him up. And you can spend your time doing other stuff too in the meantime.

Sure so if i want to play more then 1 hour, what do i do?

More generally, these very long drawn out leveling phases have two problems: they create a major chasm between a very small minority who gets to max in a month and an overwhelming majority who gets to cap in a year, making it hard to create content for everyone at the same time, breaking community apart etc... and it's the best spot for gold/exp sellers, which means phising, hacking, and all the great fun.

You do realise that this is the exact problem of mmos these day, some reach max lvl in 1 weeks ans other in 1-2 months, so this is way harder to create content for everyone since you have 1-2 month to do so before people leave because there are bored.. and like there are no gold sellers in todays mmos lol.

Finally, there's also a good way for you to get over that problem; play any P2W game without paying, and grind your way through all the levels. It's not fun to me, but at least once you'll have gotten to cap, I'm sure you'll be attached to your character... to each his own I guess

I would if these game where any good.. but most of them have no good crafting, no explorations, no social aspect, no living world etc etc.. like you said each his own but wait where is my own kind a games? o yeah i dont have one cause devs listen only to you.

maplestone · September 2012

If I want to do more leveling, I make an alt.

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Am I the only one that misses leveling over years?

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Am I the only one that misses leveling over years?

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