Don't see the big deal, SWTOR had 2mil box sales, so what, noone considers that a successful MMO. This number doesn't really mean much. My guess is they will end up somewhere in the 3mil total boxes sold, I don't think there will be a very large active playerbase in 3 to 6 months though, end of the day it will be a niche MMO that is very well done if that is what your looking for in a game.
SWTOR had 2.4 million box sales after 4 months (April 2012) - context is everything
As of the end of April 2012, 2.4 million units of Star Wars: The Old Republic have sold through.
SWTOR was a subscription based game. You're right, context IS everything.
Which of course makes SWTOR's sales all the more impressive knowing you had to pay a sub fee, when people buy GW@ they are taking far less of a chance, but still 2 mil in sales, congrats for selling almost as much as SWTOR
If I don't like GW2 - wasted $60.
If I don't like SWTOR - wasted $60. If someone pay another $15 for a month it is because they are liking it, so it isn't as if it is a risk.
Unless the only way people see those $15 or $30 or whatever worthwhile only if they proceed to spend another $500-$1000 in the same game.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Which of course makes SWTOR's sales all the more impressive knowing you had to pay a sub fee, when people buy GW@ they are taking far less of a chance, but still 2 mil in sales, congrats for selling almost as much as SWTOR
well its not like the number is gonna go down or anything hehe..
Im actally suprised they have sold so little because of the amonut of super hype i expected them to sell more...
So you expected WoW numbers?
GW2 is the biggest new MMORPG release in the west.
Yeah, how can one not be surprised...
Actually I think they've outsold WoW if you compare the first months GW2 sales to the first months WoW vaniilla sales . So in that respect they are already more successful than WoW . But playing devils adovocate you have to remember more people are interested in mmos than they were in 2005 .
Whatever way you look at it Guild Wars 2 is well on the way to being the most successful mmo since Warcraft . If nothing else it proves an mmo other than WoW can catch the public imagination and go beyond being an niche game .
Don't see the big deal, SWTOR had 2mil box sales, so what, noone considers that a successful MMO. This number doesn't really mean much. My guess is they will end up somewhere in the 3mil total boxes sold, I don't think there will be a very large active playerbase in 3 to 6 months though, end of the day it will be a niche MMO that is very well done if that is what your looking for in a game.
SWTOR had 2.4 million box sales after 4 months (April 2012) - context is everything
As of the end of April 2012, 2.4 million units of Star Wars: The Old Republic have sold through.
SWTOR was a subscription based game. You're right, context IS everything.
Which of course makes SWTOR's sales all the more impressive knowing you had to pay a sub fee, when people buy GW@ they are taking far less of a chance, but still 2 mil in sales, congrats for selling almost as much as SWTOR
If I don't like GW2 - wasted $60.
If I don't like SWTOR - wasted $60. If someone pay another $15 for a month it is because they are liking it, so it isn't as if it is a risk.
Unless the only way people see those $15 or $30 or whatever worthwhile only if they proceed to spend another $500-$1000 in the same game.
The reason I said what I said was because most people who bought SWTOR knew it had a sub and would not have bought it with out the understanding that their continued enjoyment would not happen without the outlay of more money, with GW2 you did not have to worry about that-therefore more financial stress buying SWTOR than GW2
Which of course makes SWTOR's sales all the more impressive knowing you had to pay a sub fee, when people buy GW@ they are taking far less of a chance, but still 2 mil in sales, congrats for selling almost as much as SWTOR
The problem here is they have orchestrated it in such a way that this number will ever decline. "2million units sold" 90% of the population could leave and it still would be "2 million units sold"
I personally think there is a hard ceiling to this game, Where everyone who wanted to play it, did.
Negative. Just as with the original GW, new players will continually come along. Yes, the rate of sales will decline over time as with all games. However, it doesn't matter if buyers keep playing, once Anet get's the $60 it will mean more content for those of us (Me!!!!) still playing.
Don't see the big deal, SWTOR had 2mil box sales, so what, noone considers that a successful MMO. This number doesn't really mean much. My guess is they will end up somewhere in the 3mil total boxes sold, I don't think there will be a very large active playerbase in 3 to 6 months though, end of the day it will be a niche MMO that is very well done if that is what your looking for in a game.
SWTOR had 2.4 million box sales after 4 months (April 2012) - context is everything
As of the end of April 2012, 2.4 million units of Star Wars: The Old Republic have sold through.
SWTOR was a subscription based game. You're right, context IS everything.
My point was who cares about boxes sold. It is a MMO if you sell 10M boxes and 10M people leave you still have a dead MMO. Maybe GW2 will be a huge success and maybe it won't, but box sales don't matter. GW2 is no different because it doesn't have a sub. They still need people on the servers and people buying stuff from the cash shop.
SWTOR did not fail because they only sold 2.4M or 2M in the first month or whatever. They failed because they didn't hold the player base and while with a f2p model this is harder to TRACK it still holds true. GW2 will be a success or failure not based on how many boxes are sold but how many people continue to play the game and how full the servers are with people spending money.
Originally posted by Tayah Congrats, it really is the best mmo I've played in years. Finally, an mmo that comes out with all the bells and whistles, so much depth, and it's free to play?? Congrats ArenaNet, job well done.
I agree but its not a F2P game. Unless Arenanet gave you a copy and didnt tell anyone else.
I'm surprised at how much i am enjoying this game.
I didn't care for GW1, i don't (or didn't) like cash shops, but theres so much that keeps me busy, and im having a lot of fun doing it. Been waiting for a game like this for awhile and i'm glad i picked it up.
Originally posted by Marcus- I'm surprised at how much i am enjoying this game.
I didn't care for GW1, i don't (or didn't) like cash shops, but theres so much that keeps me busy, and im having a lot of fun doing it. Been waiting for a game like this for awhile and i'm glad i picked it up.
Agree with you. As altholic will have a lot to do and just hope game is fun also beyond lv. 11. :-) all my 8 alts are now between 7 and 11 only, but so far I'm having a blast.
My biggest disappointment however was Aion, very fun to certain level, as I remember around 20, ... then only free fall. History, never to return. But If I have to compare and if memory still servers me well ... gw2 is waaaay much better and complex and with a lot of candies.
Nearly I'm sorry will have to stop for few months at 25.9., but wow is still my 2nd best game after Swtor. 3rd is Rift, but Gw2 I must admit is closing fast if will continue as so far.
I'm going to be the one small voice to point out that all of you congratulating Anet are forgetting that you are also putting money into the pockets of NCSoft, possibly the company with the WORST record for killing off MMO games in the history of gaming.
Dungeon Runners, Auto Assault, Exteel, Tabula Rasa.
City of Heroes.
Do any of these ring a bell?
The instant this game starts to not look like the "giant killer" that NCsoft wants or doesn't fit into the South Korean/Asian market, you'd better start looking over your shoulders for the axe to fall. You might get 3-4 years of enjoyment out of this game. But don't get too attached to your characters and your guilds.
Because look at what has happened with the deplorable way that Paragon Studios and City of Heroes was treated. Kicked to the curb even though they were still profitable - just not profitable ENOUGH to offset the massive losses in sales from the failure of AION and other NCSoft titles.
And now NCSoft is going to be bringing Blade and Soul - another Asian style grindfest over to North America, where it too will fail because that model doesn't work here. It's been tried over and over again. And they haven't learned yet.
Don't take this as hatred for Anet or Guild Wars 2. You have a fantastic looking game there and Anet is being very innovative.
But I wouldn't trust NCsoft as far as I can throw them. And I won't give them my money.
I hope Anet has some way to escape from under the thumb of NCsoft. If they do, I'll gladly support them. But not until then.
-Logan ---------- "Wake UP! Time for SCIENCE!" -Adam Savage "Mythbusters" ----------
I'm going to be the one small voice to point out that all of you congratulating Anet are forgetting that you are also putting money into the pockets of NCSoft, possibly the company with the WORST record for killing off MMO games in the history of gaming.
Dungeon Runners, Auto Assault, Exteel, Tabula Rasa.
City of Heroes.
And now NCSoft is going to be bringing Blade and Soul - another Asian style grindfest over to North America, where it too will fail because that model doesn't work here. It's been tried over and over again. And they haven't learned yet.
Don't take this as hatred for Anet or Guild Wars 2. You have a fantastic looking game there and Anet is being very innovative.
But I wouldn't trust NCsoft as far as I can throw them. And I won't give them my money.
I hope Anet has some way to escape from under the thumb of NCsoft. If they do, I'll gladly support them. But not until then.
i miss dungeon runners - and i wish COX was not being shutdown
I agree w you that Blade & Soul is likely to get the same reception TERA had
SWTOR was a subscription based game. You're right, context IS everything.
Context certainly matters, but I think there are bigger factors than the subscription.
I think the biggest sales drivers for SWtOR were the Star Wars IP, BioWare label and large marketing budget. That is the formula for a large inital spike in sales. There wasn't much substance behind it so you end up with a large drop off. I sometimes wonder if this "pump and dump" stategy was deliberate given that the box and digital sales went to EA without Lucas Arts getting a cut.
GW2, on the other hand, seems focused on a quality long term game so I would expect steadier sales. With obscure IP, a relatively unknown label and limited marketing they've done quite well.
SWTOR was a subscription based game. You're right, context IS everything.
Context certainly matters, but I think there are bigger factors than the subscription.
I think the biggest sales drivers for SWtOR were the Star Wars IP, BioWare label and large marketing budget. That is the formula for a large inital spike in sales. There wasn't much substance behind it so you end up with a large drop off. I sometimes wonder if this "pump and dump" stategy was deliberate given that the box and digital sales went to EA without Lucas Arts getting a cut.
Given the ruthless nature of EA's business culture? I'd say it's 99.9% certain it was deliberate.
The Star Wars IP only counts for so much - basically initial sales. Bioware's reputation certainly helped initial pre-orders as well.
But then the fiasco with the botched, ruined ending of Mass Effect 3 became clear. And between that and DA2 and the other failings of SWTOR it became quickly clear that Bioware was not the company it once was. Among many gamers, Bioware is now considered to be nothing more than another studio EA has ruined.
So I think Mass Effect 3 was one of the major drivers in loss for SWTOR. People dropped their subs over time and didn't renew them. Quit out of disgust and because they were also Mass Effect players, or because they had done all the content in SWTOR and there wasn't anything left to do. Or a combination of those and other factors.
Basically, when you piss off enough of your fanbase, it WILL hurt your sales. I think EA and Bioware forgot that.
I think NCSoft is forgetting it too. There's a lot of initial sales of GW2. But I wonder if their history as "THE MMO Killer" will finally catch up to them now that they've killed off the beloved City of Heroes franchise solely to prop up quarterly market reports. (Notice that COH sunsets on Nov 30th, and the Next financial quarter starts on Dec 1st. Coincidence? I think not!)
I do hope Arenanet has an escape plan. I really do, because everything I've seen indicates they have crafted a wonderful game. And I wish them the best. As soon as I hear that another company has bought Arenanet or they go independent, I'll gladly support them.
But sadly, I can't give them any of my money while any of it will go to NCSoft.
I can't speak for anyone else, but NCSoft pissed me off by killing off City of Heroes and possibly shattering the entire community of people I had come to love and care for.
So I'm taking my business elsewhere. It's as simple as that.
(If NCSoft changes their mind about City of Heroes or allows the IP and game to be sold to another company, I'll change my stance and I'll be able to support GW2 then. But I will always remain wary of NCsoft. And I don't think I will ever "invest' myself emotionally in any of the games they publish. They will simply be places where I play with my friends. Nothing more or less. And I will stay casual so that I can drop them as easily as they drop their customers.)
-Logan ---------- "Wake UP! Time for SCIENCE!" -Adam Savage "Mythbusters" ----------
Originally posted by fatboy21007 Look out WoW, some1 is gaining steam XD
WoW has more subscribers than GW2 ever will
You're correct on that, WoW WILL have more subscribers than GW2, in fact GW2 will have 0 subscribers because its a buy-to-play MMO, no subscription involved! BWAAAHAAA - Who's getting screwed in the pocket book now? :P
Almost 15 years of MMOing under my belt. I have only been this excited 3 other times. EQ1 2 weeks in, I knew I had found something new and loved it. Few years later DAoC taught me something new, RvR was the only way to PvP. Few years later WoW delivered PvE in a way never done before and was a blast but was always missing something but none the less was the best of its time. Now ANet has brought the best of PvP and PvE into one package and as a hard core MMOer I am having a blast. This will be my home for many years I am sure. 2 Mill is only a drop in the bucket to come I am sure!!!
Originally posted by fatboy21007 Look out WoW, some1 is gaining steam XD
WoW has more subscribers than GW2 ever will
define 'ever'....
Unless GW2 starts offering subscriptions, what I said will always be true.
Yeah. Since it's $60 for a box and no sub they are relevant in races for units sold, not "subscribers". This means they're mostly competing with things like Skyrim, Borderlands, Fallout, Diablo 3.
Originally posted by fatboy21007 Look out WoW, some1 is gaining steam XD
WoW has more subscribers than GW2 ever will
define 'ever'....
Unless GW2 starts offering subscriptions, what I said will always be true.
Yeah. Since it's $60 for a box and no sub they are relevant in races for units sold, not "subscribers". This means they're mostly competing with things like Skyrim, Borderlands, Fallout, Diablo 3.
Good competition and technically we all win.
Umm..what? Business model has little to do with who they are competing. It's mostly the genre of game they are competing with.
yea... if NCSoft wants to impress me, they'll do something to Keep CoH alive, their decision to shut down a profitable game, because it doesnt meet up with their "new focus" burns me up
they also say that they have at least 400k+ logged in at all times... 2 mill boxes, down peak of 1/4 of that given world wide time zones...? Not too shabby imo.... the game is amazing btw ;-)
Don't forget every FTP makes you play for the next expansion. Every game that comes out is more expensive than the following expansions besides "collector" editions. LOTRO, EQ2, you name it, ftp has not been ftp - can't exist, they will find a way to pay for development.
Originally posted by maestro48239 yea... if NCSoft wants to impress me, they'll do something to Keep CoH alive, their decision to shut down a profitable game, because it doesnt meet up with their "new focus" burns me up
And how exactly was CoH profitable? Few players and most of them were playing for free...all freemium games deserve a slow death for their trying to make a quick buck on a game that wasnt good enough to maintain paying customers. Either go F2P and create a shop with micro-transactions that actually make money...or die like the game should have.
Comments
If I don't like GW2 - wasted $60.
If I don't like SWTOR - wasted $60. If someone pay another $15 for a month it is because they are liking it, so it isn't as if it is a risk.
Unless the only way people see those $15 or $30 or whatever worthwhile only if they proceed to spend another $500-$1000 in the same game.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
GW2 sold 2 million in 2 weeks
heres SWTOR numbers:
first 3 days, EA reported over 1 million
http://www.swtor.com/info/news/press-release/20111226
after 5 weeks, EA reported over 2 million
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/01/ea-reveals-swtor-subscription-and-sales-numbers-beats-financial/10
after 4 months, EA reported 2.4 million units sold
http://m.ign.com/articles/2012/05/07/swtor-subscriber-base-shrinks
EQ2 fan sites
Actually I think they've outsold WoW if you compare the first months GW2 sales to the first months WoW vaniilla sales . So in that respect they are already more successful than WoW . But playing devils adovocate you have to remember more people are interested in mmos than they were in 2005 .
Whatever way you look at it Guild Wars 2 is well on the way to being the most successful mmo since Warcraft . If nothing else it proves an mmo other than WoW can catch the public imagination and go beyond being an niche game .
Thats a good thing .
The reason I said what I said was because most people who bought SWTOR knew it had a sub and would not have bought it with out the understanding that their continued enjoyment would not happen without the outlay of more money, with GW2 you did not have to worry about that-therefore more financial stress buying SWTOR than GW2
My statement is still accurate. A few weeks or a month from now we will find out if GW2 is able to surpass SWTOR, but right now they have not
Negative. Just as with the original GW, new players will continually come along. Yes, the rate of sales will decline over time as with all games. However, it doesn't matter if buyers keep playing, once Anet get's the $60 it will mean more content for those of us (Me!!!!) still playing.
My point was who cares about boxes sold. It is a MMO if you sell 10M boxes and 10M people leave you still have a dead MMO. Maybe GW2 will be a huge success and maybe it won't, but box sales don't matter. GW2 is no different because it doesn't have a sub. They still need people on the servers and people buying stuff from the cash shop.
SWTOR did not fail because they only sold 2.4M or 2M in the first month or whatever. They failed because they didn't hold the player base and while with a f2p model this is harder to TRACK it still holds true. GW2 will be a success or failure not based on how many boxes are sold but how many people continue to play the game and how full the servers are with people spending money.
www.archeagetr.com
www.archeageonlinetr.com
I agree but its not a F2P game. Unless Arenanet gave you a copy and didnt tell anyone else.
I didn't care for GW1, i don't (or didn't) like cash shops, but theres so much that keeps me busy, and im having a lot of fun doing it. Been waiting for a game like this for awhile and i'm glad i picked it up.
Agree with you. As altholic will have a lot to do and just hope game is fun also beyond lv. 11. :-) all my 8 alts are now between 7 and 11 only, but so far I'm having a blast.
My biggest disappointment however was Aion, very fun to certain level, as I remember around 20, ... then only free fall. History, never to return. But If I have to compare and if memory still servers me well ... gw2 is waaaay much better and complex and with a lot of candies.
Nearly I'm sorry will have to stop for few months at 25.9., but wow is still my 2nd best game after Swtor. 3rd is Rift, but Gw2 I must admit is closing fast if will continue as so far.
I'm going to be the one small voice to point out that all of you congratulating Anet are forgetting that you are also putting money into the pockets of NCSoft, possibly the company with the WORST record for killing off MMO games in the history of gaming.
Dungeon Runners, Auto Assault, Exteel, Tabula Rasa.
City of Heroes.
Do any of these ring a bell?
The instant this game starts to not look like the "giant killer" that NCsoft wants or doesn't fit into the South Korean/Asian market, you'd better start looking over your shoulders for the axe to fall. You might get 3-4 years of enjoyment out of this game. But don't get too attached to your characters and your guilds.
Because look at what has happened with the deplorable way that Paragon Studios and City of Heroes was treated. Kicked to the curb even though they were still profitable - just not profitable ENOUGH to offset the massive losses in sales from the failure of AION and other NCSoft titles.
And now NCSoft is going to be bringing Blade and Soul - another Asian style grindfest over to North America, where it too will fail because that model doesn't work here. It's been tried over and over again. And they haven't learned yet.
Don't take this as hatred for Anet or Guild Wars 2. You have a fantastic looking game there and Anet is being very innovative.
But I wouldn't trust NCsoft as far as I can throw them. And I won't give them my money.
I hope Anet has some way to escape from under the thumb of NCsoft. If they do, I'll gladly support them. But not until then.
-Logan
----------
"Wake UP! Time for SCIENCE!"
-Adam Savage "Mythbusters"
----------
i miss dungeon runners - and i wish COX was not being shutdown
I agree w you that Blade & Soul is likely to get the same reception TERA had
EQ2 fan sites
Context certainly matters, but I think there are bigger factors than the subscription.
I think the biggest sales drivers for SWtOR were the Star Wars IP, BioWare label and large marketing budget. That is the formula for a large inital spike in sales. There wasn't much substance behind it so you end up with a large drop off. I sometimes wonder if this "pump and dump" stategy was deliberate given that the box and digital sales went to EA without Lucas Arts getting a cut.
GW2, on the other hand, seems focused on a quality long term game so I would expect steadier sales. With obscure IP, a relatively unknown label and limited marketing they've done quite well.
Given the ruthless nature of EA's business culture? I'd say it's 99.9% certain it was deliberate.
The Star Wars IP only counts for so much - basically initial sales. Bioware's reputation certainly helped initial pre-orders as well.
But then the fiasco with the botched, ruined ending of Mass Effect 3 became clear. And between that and DA2 and the other failings of SWTOR it became quickly clear that Bioware was not the company it once was. Among many gamers, Bioware is now considered to be nothing more than another studio EA has ruined.
So I think Mass Effect 3 was one of the major drivers in loss for SWTOR. People dropped their subs over time and didn't renew them. Quit out of disgust and because they were also Mass Effect players, or because they had done all the content in SWTOR and there wasn't anything left to do. Or a combination of those and other factors.
Basically, when you piss off enough of your fanbase, it WILL hurt your sales. I think EA and Bioware forgot that.
I think NCSoft is forgetting it too. There's a lot of initial sales of GW2. But I wonder if their history as "THE MMO Killer" will finally catch up to them now that they've killed off the beloved City of Heroes franchise solely to prop up quarterly market reports. (Notice that COH sunsets on Nov 30th, and the Next financial quarter starts on Dec 1st. Coincidence? I think not!)
I do hope Arenanet has an escape plan. I really do, because everything I've seen indicates they have crafted a wonderful game. And I wish them the best. As soon as I hear that another company has bought Arenanet or they go independent, I'll gladly support them.
But sadly, I can't give them any of my money while any of it will go to NCSoft.
I can't speak for anyone else, but NCSoft pissed me off by killing off City of Heroes and possibly shattering the entire community of people I had come to love and care for.
So I'm taking my business elsewhere. It's as simple as that.
(If NCSoft changes their mind about City of Heroes or allows the IP and game to be sold to another company, I'll change my stance and I'll be able to support GW2 then. But I will always remain wary of NCsoft. And I don't think I will ever "invest' myself emotionally in any of the games they publish. They will simply be places where I play with my friends. Nothing more or less. And I will stay casual so that I can drop them as easily as they drop their customers.)
-Logan
----------
"Wake UP! Time for SCIENCE!"
-Adam Savage "Mythbusters"
----------
You're correct on that, WoW WILL have more subscribers than GW2, in fact GW2 will have 0 subscribers because its a buy-to-play MMO, no subscription involved! BWAAAHAAA - Who's getting screwed in the pocket book now? :P
Almost 15 years of MMOing under my belt. I have only been this excited 3 other times. EQ1 2 weeks in, I knew I had found something new and loved it. Few years later DAoC taught me something new, RvR was the only way to PvP. Few years later WoW delivered PvE in a way never done before and was a blast but was always missing something but none the less was the best of its time. Now ANet has brought the best of PvP and PvE into one package and as a hard core MMOer I am having a blast. This will be my home for many years I am sure. 2 Mill is only a drop in the bucket to come I am sure!!!
Yeah. Since it's $60 for a box and no sub they are relevant in races for units sold, not "subscribers". This means they're mostly competing with things like Skyrim, Borderlands, Fallout, Diablo 3.
Good competition and technically we all win.
Umm..what? Business model has little to do with who they are competing. It's mostly the genre of game they are competing with.
they also say that they have at least 400k+ logged in at all times... 2 mill boxes, down peak of 1/4 of that given world wide time zones...? Not too shabby imo.... the game is amazing btw ;-)
Don't forget every FTP makes you play for the next expansion. Every game that comes out is more expensive than the following expansions besides "collector" editions. LOTRO, EQ2, you name it, ftp has not been ftp - can't exist, they will find a way to pay for development.
The in-between though, this seems really nice!
And how exactly was CoH profitable? Few players and most of them were playing for free...all freemium games deserve a slow death for their trying to make a quick buck on a game that wasnt good enough to maintain paying customers. Either go F2P and create a shop with micro-transactions that actually make money...or die like the game should have.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert