Originally posted by Bladestrom Vesalius you need to think about it a bit more, the cash shop has not a sinle thing that is a must have. A cash shop allows you to play an AAA mmorg with no sub. In at 80 and I made a choice to buy a bag slot, it wasnt a must have but it was a nice to have that I decided to buy, my decision which I take personal responsibility for. Your getting a pretty substantial sized server infrastructure for your non-sub, that's not cheap. I have seen cash shops where you are at a disadvantage in the game if you don't buy (must have potions, gear) but this is not the case here.
No, I think you really need to think about it more.
If you have not seen the basic design decisions that have been dictated by the existance of a cash shop in this game you are running blind.
As a crafter I would say having more then 1 small bank between 5 characters is a must and basic to play, as an example.
Technically, everything is a choice, yes. Pro cash shoppers wave the 'choice' banner around all the time, but the system is clearly designed with that 'choice' in mind though. You think you eventually made that 'choice' uninfluenced by intentional system design?
I would argue that, often, you should call it 'the illusion of choice'.
To cover the costs you mention I prefer the transparent and, IMO, more honest sub model. I don't expect an ongoing service for free.
As for being at 'disadvantage' or not... that is very much open to debate. I know, as an example, that I am poorer then a guy that uses currency boosters or buys gems>gold for example.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Yamoto an optional 0 to x pounds a month IS cheaper than a Compulsary 10 pounds a month, that's a fact.
This. People who say cash shops are more expensive fail at the most basic level of logic... and even in a case like GW2, you can see people in this very thread getting cash shop only items through in-game work. It's not a matter of opinion, Yamota is WRONG.
In GW2 the cash shop usage seems more obligatory for casual players, since gamers with more time on their hands can simply grind an hour abouts in Orr for an extra bank tab for example. Only if you're short on gold and time would I you consider paying RL money, imo.
Bought 3 extra classslots for 2400 and have 1600 left on my account.
Anyone else allready spend more then he would on a subbed game in the first 5 months?
I dont regret spending it, but it proves to me that even when you want to make money B2p is the way to go
I have spent £8, which ofc is more then I would have spent in the first month in a sub based game as well.
But then that's the great trick of cash shops I guess... They dress up more expensive basics, such as a practical amount of bank space, as 'choice'.
We have to remember that the highly promoted and very much engineered move to this model is only to benefit profit margains, not the games or the gamer.
Cash shops do not fix games, and no game has ever been made better by one. If it wasn't worth the gamer's time at £2.50/week then the chances are it isn't at whatever the shop eventually drip feeds out of them.
Cash shops effect game design on the most profound level. It simply isn't a good model for anyone who calls themselves a gamer and plays to achieve.
Agree 100%. Cash shop adds nothing good for gamers. It just gives the illusion that it is cheaper than a sub based game. Its sole purpose is to increase the profit margins and that is why games which were tanking are suddenly profitable, without the actual gameplay improving.
So Ves are you saying you will have to pay £100 a year or gw2 is not playable? No ofc not, subs are more expensive, 0 to x pounds a year is cheaper. There are cynical cash shops and there cash shops that are not, you need more fined grained analysis.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Svarcanum In GW2 the cash shop usage seems more obligatory for casual players, since gamers with more time on their hands can simply grind an hour abouts in Orr for an extra bank tab for example. Only if you're short on gold and time would I you consider paying RL money, imo.
That's entirely the point. Since GW2 does not charge monthly, and you have access to every method of earning in-game money (which you can then trade for gems), the only reason you would "need" to buy anything is because you didn't want to earn it in-game, for whatever reason. People are making the method of paying by real cash out to be more necessary than it is, but hey, what else is new?
I still prefer this over a subscription. My gaming computer's been down for weeks. I didn't have to waste $15 on something I wasn't able to play, nor did I have to go through the hassle of cancelling a sub only to re-sub later. B2P rules.
Originally posted by Bladestrom So Ves are you saying you will have to pay £100 a year or gw2 is not playable? No ofc not, subs are more expensive, 0 to x pounds a year is cheaper. There are cynical cash shops and there cash shops that are not, you need more fined grained analysis.
No, that's not what I said at all. Please don't straw man argue.
Originally posted by Svarcanum In GW2 the cash shop usage seems more obligatory for casual players, since gamers with more time on their hands can simply grind an hour abouts in Orr for an extra bank tab for example. Only if you're short on gold and time would I you consider paying RL money, imo.
That's entirely the point. Since GW2 does not charge monthly, and you have access to every method of earning in-game money (which you can then trade for gems), the only reason you would need to buy anything is because you didn't want to earn it in-game, for whatever reason. People are making the method of paying by real cash out to be more necessary than it is, but hey, what else is new?
It's gonna die, soon probably. I hope aganst hope. But. I think it can't survive on just 2 million copies for maybe ... 2 years? . =
You're right, because all sales have STOPPED. Let's put a fork in GW2, it didn't sell 10 million copies in a month. Seriously.. GW1 was even less popular and people stayed for years. Some are even still playing, and IMO it's an inferior game. Your post has nothing to do with mine anyway.
But then that's the great trick of cash shops I guess... They dress up more expensive basics, such as a practical amount of bank space, as 'choice'.
That little theory seems to be contradicted, at lest for GW2; by the fact that the majority in this thread didn't pay a cent to the cash shop. And the reason is the cash shop currency can be "quite easily" bought with in game gold.
So I disagree with you, at least for GW2. Would you have said e.g. LOTRO, I'd agree 100%. But I can't agree for GW2.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Originally posted by Bladestrom Vesalius you need to think about it a bit more, the cash shop has not a sinle thing that is a must have. A cash shop allows you to play an AAA mmorg with no sub. In at 80 and I made a choice to buy a bag slot, it wasnt a must have but it was a nice to have that I decided to buy, my decision which I take personal responsibility for. Your getting a pretty substantial sized server infrastructure for your non-sub, that's not cheap. I have seen cash shops where you are at a disadvantage in the game if you don't buy (must have potions, gear) but this is not the case here.
No, I think you really need to think about it more.
If you have not seen the basic design decisions that have been dictated by the existance of a cash shop in this game you are running blind.
As a crafter I would say having more then 1 small bank between 5 characters is a must and basic to play, as an example.
Technically, everything is a choice, yes. Pro cash shoppers wave the 'choice' banner around all the time, but the system is clearly designed with that 'choice' in mind though. You think you eventually made that 'choice' uninfluenced by intentional system design?
I would argue that, often, you should call it 'the illusion of choice'.
To cover the costs you mention I prefer the transparent and, IMO, more honest sub model. I don't expect an ongoing service for free.
As for being at 'disadvantage' or not... that is very much open to debate. I know, as an example, that I am poorer then a guy that uses currency boosters or buys gems>gold for example.
OR you could just buy/craft some food that gives you a currency boost (and btw I don't see a currency booster in the shop, but there is crafted food for this). I've also got a bunch of these boosters from Black Lion Chests for free (yes the keys were free as well, and some chests drop another key... and if you want to get into specifics I have these in my bank: 3 Magic Find Boosters, 4 EXP Boosters, 2 Killstreak EXP Boosters, 2 Armor Boosters, 1 Strength Booster, 1 Crafting Booster, 1 Karma Booster, 1 PvP Glory Booster, and I've used a few already).
At this point in the game, I don't see how the cash shop would bother anybody. None of my friends have spent a dime and have all bought gems with gold. Quite a few people in this thread have stated they did the same.
If you were too impatient to farm the gold, then that's your fault.
The game is not without flaws, but I have 0 complaints about the cash shop. The way I see it, I would have paid gold to unlock bank slots in other games, and that's what I did here. The only things worth getting (for me) are bank slots, inventory slots, and character slots.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Vesalius you need to think about it a bit more, the cash shop has not a sinle thing that is a must have. A cash shop allows you to play an AAA mmorg with no sub. In at 80 and I made a choice to buy a bag slot, it wasnt a must have but it was a nice to have that I decided to buy, my decision which I take personal responsibility for. Your getting a pretty substantial sized server infrastructure for your non-sub, that's not cheap. I have seen cash shops where you are at a disadvantage in the game if you don't buy (must have potions, gear) but this is not the case here.
No, I think you really need to think about it more.
If you have not seen the basic design decisions that have been dictated by the existance of a cash shop in this game you are running blind.
As a crafter I would say having more then 1 small bank between 5 characters is a must and basic to play, as an example.
Technically, everything is a choice, yes. Pro cash shoppers wave the 'choice' banner around all the time, but the system is clearly designed with that 'choice' in mind though. You think you eventually made that 'choice' uninfluenced by intentional system design?
I would argue that, often, you should call it 'the illusion of choice'.
To cover the costs you mention I prefer the transparent and, IMO, more honest sub model. I don't expect an ongoing service for free.
As for being at 'disadvantage' or not... that is very much open to debate. I know, as an example, that I am poorer then a guy that uses currency boosters or buys gems>gold for example.
OR you could just buy/craft some food that gives you a currency boost (and btw I don't see a currency booster in the shop, but there is crafted food for this). I've also got a bunch of these boosters from Black Lion Chests for free (yes the keys were free as well, and some chests drop another key... and if you want to get into specifics I have these in my bank: 3 Magic Find Boosters, 4 EXP Boosters, 2 Killstreak EXP Boosters, 2 Armor Boosters, 1 Strength Booster, 1 Crafting Booster, 1 Karma Booster, 1 PvP Glory Booster, and I've used a few already).
At this point in the game, I don't see how the cash shop would bother anybody. None of my friends have spent a dime and have all bought gems with gold. Quite a few people in this thread have stated they did the same.
If you were too impatient to farm the gold, then that's your fault.
The game is not without flaws, but I have 0 complaints about the cash shop. The way I see it, I would have paid gold to unlock bank slots in other games, and that's what I did here. The only things worth getting (for me) are bank slots, inventory slots, and character slots.
I really don't see the problem here.
I agree with Bleyzwun here. So far I've spent $0, and I still love this game. GW2 is awesome!
Well Ves I can prove it if I must lol, I bought 1 exotic with my 42k karma I saved while levelling and a pair of exotic boots for 2.7 gold, mr rare accessories I crafted with stuff I gathered on way. The rest of my stuff is blue/yellow gear found on way. I'm currently working on mats for mystic salvage kit. No cash spent here for all this. I
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
At the begining i spent 16euro for gems for more bank space and bag space. But i dont think i will spend more on the current things in store, becouse since that first purchase i upgraded to DDE and bought one additional character slot, but this time i bought gems for in game gold .
But then that's the great trick of cash shops I guess... They dress up more expensive basics, such as a practical amount of bank space, as 'choice'.
That little theory seems to be contradicted, at lest for GW2; by the fact that the majority in this thread didn't pay a cent to the cash shop. And the reason is the cash shop currency can be "quite easily" bought with in game gold.
So I disagree with you, at least for GW2. Would you have said e.g. LOTRO, I'd agree 100%. But I can't agree for GW2.
Well, in my experience debating this Kor plenty of people that say they don't spend in cash shops actually do... If someone says they do spend and give an amount I usually sunconciously double it.
Not everyone, but plenty lie on the internet to represent a stronger position
I've spent 30$. Bought extra bank slot, a pack of three mini pets, dye multipack, aviators, boxing gloves and converted 200 gems to some coin. Have800 gems left.
I finally broke down and spent 20 bucks yesterday. And then i dumped 2 gold for gems as well. PIcked up some extra bank space, inventory space and some keys.
Comments
No, I think you really need to think about it more.
If you have not seen the basic design decisions that have been dictated by the existance of a cash shop in this game you are running blind.
As a crafter I would say having more then 1 small bank between 5 characters is a must and basic to play, as an example.
Technically, everything is a choice, yes. Pro cash shoppers wave the 'choice' banner around all the time, but the system is clearly designed with that 'choice' in mind though. You think you eventually made that 'choice' uninfluenced by intentional system design?
I would argue that, often, you should call it 'the illusion of choice'.
To cover the costs you mention I prefer the transparent and, IMO, more honest sub model. I don't expect an ongoing service for free.
As for being at 'disadvantage' or not... that is very much open to debate. I know, as an example, that I am poorer then a guy that uses currency boosters or buys gems>gold for example.
This. People who say cash shops are more expensive fail at the most basic level of logic... and even in a case like GW2, you can see people in this very thread getting cash shop only items through in-game work. It's not a matter of opinion, Yamota is WRONG.
Exactly Yam.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
That's entirely the point. Since GW2 does not charge monthly, and you have access to every method of earning in-game money (which you can then trade for gems), the only reason you would "need" to buy anything is because you didn't want to earn it in-game, for whatever reason. People are making the method of paying by real cash out to be more necessary than it is, but hey, what else is new?
I still prefer this over a subscription. My gaming computer's been down for weeks. I didn't have to waste $15 on something I wasn't able to play, nor did I have to go through the hassle of cancelling a sub only to re-sub later. B2P rules.
Soon you will be seen as a debt to the game I'm sure.
No, that's not what I said at all. Please don't straw man argue.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
You're right, because all sales have STOPPED. Let's put a fork in GW2, it didn't sell 10 million copies in a month. Seriously.. GW1 was even less popular and people stayed for years. Some are even still playing, and IMO it's an inferior game. Your post has nothing to do with mine anyway.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I know. I hope they do like 6 month expansions to keep it rollin'.
At this point, when claims are made like this, I usually ask for screen shots to support them.
Not calling you a liar, I am sure it is possble, but I would like to see them anyhow. Humour me?
Btw, can you please start quoting the post you are answering to? There are more then two of us in the thread and it helps clarity.
That little theory seems to be contradicted, at lest for GW2; by the fact that the majority in this thread didn't pay a cent to the cash shop. And the reason is the cash shop currency can be "quite easily" bought with in game gold.
So I disagree with you, at least for GW2. Would you have said e.g. LOTRO, I'd agree 100%. But I can't agree for GW2.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
OR you could just buy/craft some food that gives you a currency boost (and btw I don't see a currency booster in the shop, but there is crafted food for this). I've also got a bunch of these boosters from Black Lion Chests for free (yes the keys were free as well, and some chests drop another key... and if you want to get into specifics I have these in my bank: 3 Magic Find Boosters, 4 EXP Boosters, 2 Killstreak EXP Boosters, 2 Armor Boosters, 1 Strength Booster, 1 Crafting Booster, 1 Karma Booster, 1 PvP Glory Booster, and I've used a few already).
At this point in the game, I don't see how the cash shop would bother anybody. None of my friends have spent a dime and have all bought gems with gold. Quite a few people in this thread have stated they did the same.
If you were too impatient to farm the gold, then that's your fault.
The game is not without flaws, but I have 0 complaints about the cash shop. The way I see it, I would have paid gold to unlock bank slots in other games, and that's what I did here. The only things worth getting (for me) are bank slots, inventory slots, and character slots.
I really don't see the problem here.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I agree with Bleyzwun here. So far I've spent $0, and I still love this game. GW2 is awesome!
I
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Well, in my experience debating this Kor plenty of people that say they don't spend in cash shops actually do... If someone says they do spend and give an amount I usually sunconciously double it.
Not everyone, but plenty lie on the internet to represent a stronger position
Bought gems to open up my bank slots, spent £12.75 ($20) bank exchange rate is awesome
Just as many lie to strenghten the opposite position... at the end, it's balanced
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I finally broke down and spent 20 bucks yesterday. And then i dumped 2 gold for gems as well. PIcked up some extra bank space, inventory space and some keys.