After reading so many posts about dungeons on here and GW2 forums ive come to some interesting conclusions.
1. For a supposedly anti-elitist game the general attitude towards people who say negative things about dungeons is "you arent skiled enough" or "get better" ... i loled
2.If you find the trinity system boring in dungeons ( i honestly doubt %95 of GW2 players ever did any good trintiy hard mode content) how the hell do you find kiting, dodging and ressing more fun ? honestly i dont see what part of taking turns kiting a mob around dodging randomly when u can and ressing people constantly is even remotely entertaining or challenging for that matter ....... sure combo fields are cool but that doesnt change that with the current system other than combos you dodge,kite and res for every fight.... repettative much ?
3.All the non gear grind go back to wow haters and fanbois , i notice your either silent or in agreeance with dungeons needing better "rewards" , this is also in line with " we dont need a carrot " i thought that this was all about fun and challenge, the reward for doing the dungeon was getting to do it ?
4. The inability to play your class how you want in dungeons due to such poor mechanics makes me pray that no one else ever comes out with such a poor non trinity concept with such boring mechanics. Its the same problem i have with the classes and skills, if im a duel pistol thief thats what i want to use, i dont want to be forced to change weapons to get what feels like character depth, i dont want to br forced to run 1 of 3 theif weapon/trait combos to be able to do pve content, i thought this was what GW2 was supposed to change but in reality its the opposite, ive never felt like my char had less choice or depth in any other game.
After reading so many posts about dungeons on here and GW2 forums ive come to some interesting conclusions.
1. For a supposedly anti-elitist game the general attitude towards people who say negative things about dungeons is "you arent skiled enough" or "get better" ... i loled
2.If you find the trinity system boring in dungeons ( i honestly doubt %95 of GW2 players ever did any good trintiy hard mode content) how the hell do you find kiting, dodging and ressing more fun ? honestly i dont see what part of taking turns kiting a mob around dodging randomly when u can and ressing people constantly is even remotely entertaining or challenging for that matter ....... sure combo fields are cool but that doesnt change that with the current system other than combos you dodge,kite and res for every fight.... repettative much ?
3.All the non gear grind go back to wow haters and fanbois , i notice your either silent or in agreeance with dungeons needing better "rewards" , this is also in line with " we dont need a carrot " i thought that this was all about fun and challenge, the reward for doing the dungeon was getting to do it ?
4. The inability to play your class how you want in dungeons due to such poor mechanics makes me pray that no one else ever comes out with such a poor non trinity concept with such boring mechanics. Its the same problem i have with the classes and skills, if im a duel pistol thief thats what i want to use, i dont want to be forced to change weapons to get what feels like character depth, i dont want to br forced to run 1 of 3 theif weapon/trait combos to be able to do pve content, i thought this was what GW2 was supposed to change but in reality its the opposite, ive never felt like my char had less choice or depth in any other game.
1. The skill requirement is much more of a factor than the gear requirement to a greater degree than other MMOs. Stating this isn't elitist, it's simply a fact which needs adjusting to. I agree being dimissive of people based on skill is poor ettiquette, but it is in reponse to people saying the game is s**t because they want it to be more gear based etc.
2. '95%' of GW2 players never did any hard/good trinity content did they? This comment could be so easily used to dimiss anything else you say as utterly irrelevant. It is a 'statistic' you pulled out of the air and presented as fact - undermining your position about as completely as you could have done.
....never mind eh!?.....
3. 'wow-haters and fanbois'.... fine as shorthand if you have a balanced arguement, but you don't, so once again your point is undermined as readers classify you as a 'GW2-hater' and stop giving what you say any weight.
4. I have the ability to play my class any way I please. I am wondering why you think YOU don't? Your comment about dual-wielding pistols is especially revealing. In short - you want one tactic to work for everything - sounds very much like a more traditional MMO player used to the same weapon and button rotation for all enemies and situations to me....
I really don't understand the vitriol poured out over GW2 by the players of other MMOs complaining that GW2 is different and 'different = fail'.
In the face of this unreasoning position it is understandable that people revert to 'ltp' or 'play something else' comments. As the answers to my reasoned response in this post will attest - being logical and engaging on the issues accomplishes nothing....
.... but I didn't dismiss you did I - I tackled your arguement, which in my opinion is without any real merit.
I understand where the OP is coming from, but a lot of the complaints I hear in regards to the dungeons comes from people who still approach it like it's a Trinity based system. I know that most people by now know that the game is supposed to be a 'non trinity', but it doesn't change a large segment of the population from trying to play it as one.
Usually, the dungeons only turn into zergy death-fests when people try and approach them in such a way. I've successfully PUGed all the dungeons, multiple times, with various class combos. Really, what it comes down to is the following:
1) Glass cannons don't work. If you're going to be doing dungeons (especially explorables), throw on some HP gear. WIth a little bit of vitality, you will not be getting 1 shotted, and usually won't even be getting 2 shotted by most enemies. This doesn't mean you need to stack mostly vit, but having a split between the two gives you enough time to react, and to get your heal skill off cooldown to stay alive longer. Dead dps is no dps after all.
2) Pay attention to your surroundings. Everyone is responsible for taking care of themselves to an extent. If you are getting hit, then it's your turn to kite a bit. Use CC, blocking skills, evasions, etc. until you can get the enemy to switch targets.
3) Get downed players up fast.
4) Pay attention to the mechanics. Each fight has various methods of approaching it, and various ways to approach it. Every class as some way of dealing w/ the encounter. For example in CM, skils that reflect projectiles, blind, or grant block / evasion to allies help a ton. A lot of people go in with optimal damage builds, and never bother to bring condition removal, CC, or defensive skills to a fight. This is a huge mistake. Sometimes you can get lucky with group composition, and have allies that take care of all of that stuff for you, but it's not very common.
5) The first run is always the hardest. As people get used to the mechanics, a lot of mistakes get made. Naturally this leads to deaths. Do multiple runs, or try and do dungeons with people you know have ran them before. It makes them a lot easier to do.
Communicate with your team if they're new. Find out what skills they are bringing to the fight, and see if there's anything your group might be missing. Wooden Potatoes also has a few decent videos on AC explorable, where he mentions some of the above points and gives some tips.
i dont care about trinity and i have no problem to try a new approach to group/dungeon mechanics. but if this is the replacement of the trinity then, ty i wont buy. it sucks big time
This game by far has blown me away in almost every category, the gameplay is fun and the world is bueatiful. The Dynamic events are a great way to level because there is no go fletch quest hubs and so on, but last night I tried a dungeon for the first time.
I was a a level 50 Ranger doing a level 40 CM story mode. I had heard the horror stories of how unorganized, zerg fest they were but I kept telling myself I've played MMO's for so long that it can't be that bad. It was, the lack of a trinity was clear right away.
When entering the zone we started thru the story. First mob is a Golem, solo, and didn't go to bad. One death by a warrior but we got him up fast. I'm thinking ok, not to shabby. Second group of mobs is where it all went downhill. Your first pull there is about 4-5 mobs. Each one of them are "elite" which means even if all 5 of us are attacking it, it takes about 45-60 seconds to burn it down. Except there is no way to do ANYTHING about the other 4 beating on you. There is no tanking, no offtanking, no CC that is worth it. Most CC in this game last 3 seconds maybe. So needless to say, nearly every pull was a wipe. We spent as much time rezing people as we did fighting.
We beat the dungeon, but our strat was to all attack one mob, burn it down hopefully before we wiped, and come back and do it again. We would burn the barrel placers first and so on.
I know that CM was made harder recenetly, but this was just storymode. I felt like I didn't learn anything from the story because I was to busy cringing at this system. There was NOTHING FUN about this dungeon. We also had a person quit and we had to replace them during this dungeon because he said (sorry guys..this dugeon system is horrible..I am going to uninstall).
My character was setup for PVE and grouping. I had healing spring with some points into healing, search and rescue to help with rezing and the healing spirit. There was no way to heal thru that damage. We also had a guardian and that helped some but just prolonged how long it took us to wipe.
I miss my healers, tanks, and true CC. I lost motivation to level now because I do enjoy PVE more then PVP and knowing that is all I have to look forward to in dungeons is quite dishearting. I love every other aspect of this game, crafting, quest, pvp, graphics, but this is to core of a system for me to overlook. There is a difference between core mehanics and difficulty. The core mechanics on dungeons is just broke. Even if they made it super easy and a zerg fest, there would still be no "skill" to the system. It is either boring no pay attention killing, or just a wipe and res as fast as you can event. I miss strategy.
how old are u ? cause Gw2 got a dungeon system just like Wow.. so dont complain about it.. Gw2 offers better dungeons harder dungeons.. and i love it u dont i accept it.
After reading so many posts about dungeons on here and GW2 forums ive come to some interesting conclusions.
1. For a supposedly anti-elitist game the general attitude towards people who say negative things about dungeons is "you arent skiled enough" or "get better" ... i loled
2.If you find the trinity system boring in dungeons ( i honestly doubt %95 of GW2 players ever did any good trintiy hard mode content) how the hell do you find kiting, dodging and ressing more fun ? honestly i dont see what part of taking turns kiting a mob around dodging randomly when u can and ressing people constantly is even remotely entertaining or challenging for that matter ....... sure combo fields are cool but that doesnt change that with the current system other than combos you dodge,kite and res for every fight.... repettative much ?
3.All the non gear grind go back to wow haters and fanbois , i notice your either silent or in agreeance with dungeons needing better "rewards" , this is also in line with " we dont need a carrot " i thought that this was all about fun and challenge, the reward for doing the dungeon was getting to do it ?
4. The inability to play your class how you want in dungeons due to such poor mechanics makes me pray that no one else ever comes out with such a poor non trinity concept with such boring mechanics. Its the same problem i have with the classes and skills, if im a duel pistol thief thats what i want to use, i dont want to be forced to change weapons to get what feels like character depth, i dont want to br forced to run 1 of 3 theif weapon/trait combos to be able to do pve content, i thought this was what GW2 was supposed to change but in reality its the opposite, ive never felt like my char had less choice or depth in any other game.
1. The skill requirement is much more of a factor than the gear requirement to a greater degree than other MMOs. Stating this isn't elitist, it's simply a fact which needs adjusting to. I agree being dimissive of people based on skill is poor ettiquette, but it is in reponse to people saying the game is s**t because they want it to be more gear based etc. Really ? cause pretty much everyone agrees that you need to have gold gear or better AND "more skill" no matter how you paint that picture , that is an elitist attitude telling someone to get better has nuthing to do with ettiquite its a precise statement referring to your superior skill , its elitism in its finest.... i have already had this argument once but elitism is NOT restricted to noobs in WoW with epics.......
2. '95%' of GW2 players never did any hard/good trinity content did they? This comment could be so easily used to dimiss anything else you say as utterly irrelevant. It is a 'statistic' you pulled out of the air and presented as fact - undermining your position about as completely as you could have done. If you have read as many " this beats watching my cast bar while tanks stand in one place tanking and healers heal" posts as i have this assumption would make alot more sense..... sorry but its blatanlty obvious how little real PVE content most people that post about "trinity" games have actually done that requires co ordination and teamwork, of course all those hard mode boss fights and raids and world bosses in other games all go down while we magically stand in one spot right ?
....never mind eh!?.....
3. 'wow-haters and fanbois'.... fine as shorthand if you have a balanced arguement, but you don't, so once again your point is undermined as readers classify you as a 'GW2-hater' and stop giving what you say any weight. Why because anyone who has ever posted something negative in this GW2 part has been told to go back to wow or enjoy the panda's at least 10 times in each post ? Because rabid fanboys have 0 logical input to any discussion ? Oh look youve done th same thing all rabid defenders of the realm do, pretty much ignore points you cant argue and try to twist the rest to make it out like your ntelligent.
4. I have the ability to play my class any way I please. I am wondering why you think YOU don't? Your comment about dual-wielding pistols is especially revealing. In short - you want one tactic to work for everything - sounds very much like a more traditional MMO player used to the same weapon and button rotation for all enemies and situations to me.... What is revealing ? that i dont want to be FORCED to switch weapons ? how about my personal immersion in a game like GW2 why should i suddenly become a dagger weilding char because i need certain skills for a situation , this is your worst bit yet, instead of having one deep class that can do a bunch of things ( hardly one tactic) i have a class broken into weapon sets.... giving it more "tactics" ? your idea has more holes than a piece of swiss cheese.....
I really don't understand the vitriol poured out over GW2 by the players of other MMOs complaining that GW2 is different and 'different = fail'. Ive never once said the game failed... nor do i play WoW or any current sub based game as they are all not up to scratch, fact is there is way just as many misleading "positive" threads about the game as negative , where in my post did i actually bash the game as much as more the retarded fanbois and haters of anything non GW2 ? you turned my post into a i hate GW2 post .....
In the face of this unreasoning position it is understandable that people revert to 'ltp' or 'play something else' comments. As the answers to my reasoned response in this post will attest - being logical and engaging on the issues accomplishes nothing.... i fail to see your logic
.... but I didn't dismiss you did I - I tackled your arguement, which in my opinion is without any real merit.
This game by far has blown me away in almost every category, the gameplay is fun and the world is bueatiful. The Dynamic events are a great way to level because there is no go fletch quest hubs and so on, but last night I tried a dungeon for the first time.
I was a a level 50 Ranger doing a level 40 CM story mode. I had heard the horror stories of how unorganized, zerg fest they were but I kept telling myself I've played MMO's for so long that it can't be that bad. It was, the lack of a trinity was clear right away.
When entering the zone we started thru the story. First mob is a Golem, solo, and didn't go to bad. One death by a warrior but we got him up fast. I'm thinking ok, not to shabby. Second group of mobs is where it all went downhill. Your first pull there is about 4-5 mobs. Each one of them are "elite" which means even if all 5 of us are attacking it, it takes about 45-60 seconds to burn it down. Except there is no way to do ANYTHING about the other 4 beating on you. There is no tanking, no offtanking, no CC that is worth it. Most CC in this game last 3 seconds maybe. So needless to say, nearly every pull was a wipe. We spent as much time rezing people as we did fighting.
We beat the dungeon, but our strat was to all attack one mob, burn it down hopefully before we wiped, and come back and do it again. We would burn the barrel placers first and so on.
I know that CM was made harder recenetly, but this was just storymode. I felt like I didn't learn anything from the story because I was to busy cringing at this system. There was NOTHING FUN about this dungeon. We also had a person quit and we had to replace them during this dungeon because he said (sorry guys..this dugeon system is horrible..I am going to uninstall).
My character was setup for PVE and grouping. I had healing spring with some points into healing, search and rescue to help with rezing and the healing spirit. There was no way to heal thru that damage. We also had a guardian and that helped some but just prolonged how long it took us to wipe.
I miss my healers, tanks, and true CC. I lost motivation to level now because I do enjoy PVE more then PVP and knowing that is all I have to look forward to in dungeons is quite dishearting. I love every other aspect of this game, crafting, quest, pvp, graphics, but this is to core of a system for me to overlook. There is a difference between core mehanics and difficulty. The core mechanics on dungeons is just broke. Even if they made it super easy and a zerg fest, there would still be no "skill" to the system. It is either boring no pay attention killing, or just a wipe and res as fast as you can event. I miss strategy.
how old are u ? cause Gw2 got a dungeon system just like Wow.. so dont complain about it.. Gw2 offers better dungeons harder dungeons.. and i love it u dont i accept it.
In the face of this unreasoning position it is understandable that people revert to 'ltp' or 'play something else' comments. As the answers to my reasoned response in this post will attest - being logical and engaging on the issues accomplishes nothing.... i fail to see your logic
Wow, thats 20 hours a day (game has been out for 30 days I think - August 25 (early access) to today included)... that leaves 4 hours to sleep, washing, eating, etc...
Yeah, sure
And you played 600+ hours in 30 days and didn't notice you can switch builds for a 3s50c fee at any trainer?
You hit the nail on the head there Korrigan.
A player who opens their arguement with a dismissive 'I have more time online in GW2 than you so any counter-arguement you make is invalid' and then overblows it with an impossible figure.
.... and another poster saying they 'miss strategy'.... hell that translates pretty accurately to 'I miss predictable scripting and repeat same tactic = win' gameplay.
The comment on combo fields is also well made - they make a tremendous difference.
I for one run dungeons with power/toughness/heal accessories and power/crit/condition damage armour and weapons and do just fine. You only need to stack vitality/toughness/power if you lack skill and/or adaptability.
The difference between a PUG lacking in cohesion and synergy and a guild-team who understand that the whole is more than the sum of the parts is very marked in dungeons.
Yes it is a more complex challenge. Yes, you will wipe a lot if you go in wth your 'WoW Raid Head', but things improve significantly once you realise the dungeons in GW2 require a more flexible form of team play.
I have experienced some of the worst and the best dungeon runs in this regard and it is as clear as crystal why the bad was painful, and the good was a triumph.
It will be obvious to anyone else still struggling as long as they stick at it - better yet, get into one of my Guilds dungeon runs and see the difference for yourself.
The game is a new take on things - clinging to the old paradigms isn't going to work.
Stop being such Luddites about it....
I do love how you and Korrigan seem to jump on that guy, over he's, '600 hour', statement, because really that's all the pair of you have to go on isn't? I'd suspect he's done a lot more dungeons and has more experience of that mode then you, but you must discredit him because he's negative about saintly GW2. You diehard GW2 fanbois are truly pathetic.
GW2's dungeons are actually hillariously simplistic, They have much less variety then WoW's raids, sorry to tell you. Here's how to succeed at dungeons: 1. Bring a Guardian, with a sword and shield. 2. Bring a Mesmer, who is fine with condition/debuffing, 3. Bring whoever else with toughness and vitality signets. 4. Stick everyone at range, apart from the Guardian who should dodge when he can. 5. WIN!
If your having problems with that, or can't get that setup, graveyard zerg till it dies, (Twins is especially fun doing this!).
That is pretty much it. The games, 'difficulty', comes from mistakes or unavoidable aoe, which just blows you away. I.E. Like others have said mobs that hit like trucks, that's just poor design because it's simply to do and has no reply value.
By all means though if you think your a superior being for loving GW2 and we're all living in the past go ahead, who are we to stop you?
At first would probably have said it's preety bad, or at least annoying, but after playing for a while, I like it. Thing is, in explorable mode at least, the game does force you to addapt.
About healing, I play a tanky support guardian, whit gear that has + heal on it, and, altho there aren't many direct heals, I can do 2.5k heals on everyone around me with 1 skill, like 1.8h with another and give a lot of regeneration and shields to team mates.
Not all explorables require exotics, but I would say stuff like Arah or CoE explorable, does, or at least it is recommended to have it.
You can run explorables as glass cannons, 2 people in my usual group are just that, but you need to use toughness food and the potion that is specific to each dungeon (- 10% dmg taken from those enemies and +10% done to them; you can check the names on the token armor vendors, but should buy at TP, they are cheap so not worth to spend 1 badge on them at that vendor).
What I do find dumb, is trash packs being harder than bosses sometimes, but it seems they want to address that and they are also working on rewards which is a good thing also.
Also a lot of the time, you don't have to change traits, but you do have to change your 7-10 skills, for certain encounters. Don't be affraid to do that, it will help a lot. For example, some range mobs were being really hard, decimating our health...until me and another guardian in our group started using wall of reflection (think it's called) and they started killing themselves.
I agree that a few of the story modes are sometimes too hard for story modes and it can discourage people from trying further to learn certain tricks like changing skills and using combos. Maybe a more in depth tutorial would help. Like a lvl 20 mini dungeon where you have certain small chalanges in which it's explained how to overcome through the use of combo fields or certain skills that might not seem attractive at first sight.
I do love how you and Korrigan seem to jump on that guy, over he's, '600 hour', statement, because really that's all the pair of you have to go on isn't? I'd suspect he's done a lot more dungeons and has more experience of that mode then you, but you must discredit him because he's negative about saintly GW2. You diehard GW2 fanbois are truly pathetic.
GW2's dungeons are actually hillariously simplistic, They have much less variety then WoW's raids, sorry to tell you. Here's how to succeed at dungeons: 1. Bring a Guardian, with a sword and shield. 2. Bring a Mesmer, who is fine with condition/debuffing, 3. Bring whoever else with toughness and vitality signets. 4. Stick everyone at range, apart from the Guardian who should dodge when he can. 5. WIN!
If your having problems with that, or can't get that setup, graveyard zerg till it dies, (Twins is especially fun doing this!).
That is pretty much it. The games, 'difficulty', comes from mistakes or unavoidable aoe, which just blows you away. I.E. Like others have said mobs that hit like trucks, that's just poor design because it's simply to do and has no reply value.
By all means though if you think your a superior being for loving GW2 and we're all living in the past go ahead, who are we to stop you?
This
Seriously guys do you really have to defend everything this game has even if said dungeons are not that great?
At first would probably have said it's preety bad, or at least annoying, but after playing for a while, I like it. Thing is, in explorable mode at least, the game does force you to addapt.
About healing, I play a tanky support guardian, whit gear that has + heal on it, and, altho there aren't many direct heals, I can do 2.5k heals on everyone around me with 1 skill, like 1.8h with another and give a lot of regeneration and shields to team mates.
Not all explorables require exotics, but I would say stuff like Arah or CoE explorable, does, or at least it is recommended to have it.
You can run explorables as glass cannons, 2 people in my usual group are just that, but you need to use toughness food and the potion that is specific to each dungeon (- 10% dmg taken from those enemies and +10% done to them; you can check the names on the token armor vendors, but should buy at TP, they are cheap so not worth to spend 1 badge on them at that vendor).
What I do find dumb, is trash packs being harder than bosses sometimes, but it seems they want to address that and they are also working on rewards which is a good thing also.
Also a lot of the time, you don't have to change traits, but you do have to change your 7-10 skills, for certain encounters. Don't be affraid to do that, it will help a lot. For example, some range mobs were being really hard, decimating our health...until me and another guardian in our group started using wall of reflection (think it's called) and they started killing themselves.
I agree that a few of the story modes are sometimes too hard for story modes and it can discourage people from trying further to learn certain tricks like changing skills and using combos. Maybe a more in depth tutorial would help. Like a lvl 20 mini dungeon where you have certain small chalanges in which it's explained how to overcome through the use of combo fields or certain skills that might not seem attractive at first sight.
Trash mobs can be CC'ed to oblivion.
Bosses require boon stacking and damage which is probably closer to what people run 24/7.
The first time you do a dungeon and have traps covering the entire room and 3 mobs spamming AoE it seems impossible, crazy insane masochist stuff.
The 3rd time it is trivial.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I do love how you and Korrigan seem to jump on that guy, over he's, '600 hour', statement, because really that's all the pair of you have to go on isn't? I'd suspect he's done a lot more dungeons and has more experience of that mode then you, but you must discredit him because he's negative about saintly GW2. You diehard GW2 fanbois are truly pathetic.
GW2's dungeons are actually hillariously simplistic, They have much less variety then WoW's raids, sorry to tell you. Here's how to succeed at dungeons: 1. Bring a Guardian, with a sword and shield. 2. Bring a Mesmer, who is fine with condition/debuffing, 3. Bring whoever else with toughness and vitality signets. 4. Stick everyone at range, apart from the Guardian who should dodge when he can. 5. WIN!
If your having problems with that, or can't get that setup, graveyard zerg till it dies, (Twins is especially fun doing this!).
That is pretty much it. The games, 'difficulty', comes from mistakes or unavoidable aoe, which just blows you away. I.E. Like others have said mobs that hit like trucks, that's just poor design because it's simply to do and has no reply value.
By all means though if you think your a superior being for loving GW2 and we're all living in the past go ahead, who are we to stop you?
This
Seriously guys do you really have to defend everything this game has even if said dungeons are not that great?
Zhaitan battle anyone?
Worst boss fight ever, so disappointing.
I'm sorry, but anyone that require any special strategy aside 1 guy throwing rocks at 1 of the twins doesn't deserve any credit.
I would also like to know how people are doing with mass defense vs the graveling burrows in AC explorable or how is that graveyard zerging working.
The crap one reads about this game is endless.
Yes, Zhaitain fight is a letdown.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Wow, thats 20 hours a day (game has been out for 30 days I think - August 25 (early access) to today included)... that leaves 4 hours to sleep, washing, eating, etc...
Yeah, sure
And you played 600+ hours in 30 days and didn't notice you can switch builds for a 3s50c fee at any trainer?
You hit the nail on the head there Korrigan.
A player who opens their arguement with a dismissive 'I have more time online in GW2 than you so any counter-arguement you make is invalid' and then overblows it with an impossible figure.
.... and another poster saying they 'miss strategy'.... hell that translates pretty accurately to 'I miss predictable scripting and repeat same tactic = win' gameplay.
The comment on combo fields is also well made - they make a tremendous difference.
I for one run dungeons with power/toughness/heal accessories and power/crit/condition damage armour and weapons and do just fine. You only need to stack vitality/toughness/power if you lack skill and/or adaptability.
The difference between a PUG lacking in cohesion and synergy and a guild-team who understand that the whole is more than the sum of the parts is very marked in dungeons.
Yes it is a more complex challenge. Yes, you will wipe a lot if you go in wth your 'WoW Raid Head', but things improve significantly once you realise the dungeons in GW2 require a more flexible form of team play.
I have experienced some of the worst and the best dungeon runs in this regard and it is as clear as crystal why the bad was painful, and the good was a triumph.
It will be obvious to anyone else still struggling as long as they stick at it - better yet, get into one of my Guilds dungeon runs and see the difference for yourself.
The game is a new take on things - clinging to the old paradigms isn't going to work.
Stop being such Luddites about it....
I do love how you and Korrigan seem to jump on that guy, over he's, '600 hour', statement, because really that's all the pair of you have to go on isn't? I'd suspect he's done a lot more dungeons and has more experience of that mode then you, but you must discredit him because he's negative about saintly GW2. You diehard GW2 fanbois are truly pathetic.
GW2's dungeons are actually hillariously simplistic, They have much less variety then WoW's raids, sorry to tell you. Here's how to succeed at dungeons: 1. Bring a Guardian, with a sword and shield. 2. Bring a Mesmer, who is fine with condition/debuffing, 3. Bring whoever else with toughness and vitality signets. 4. Stick everyone at range, apart from the Guardian who should dodge when he can. 5. WIN!
If your having problems with that, or can't get that setup, graveyard zerg till it dies, (Twins is especially fun doing this!).
That is pretty much it. The games, 'difficulty', comes from mistakes or unavoidable aoe, which just blows you away. I.E. Like others have said mobs that hit like trucks, that's just poor design because it's simply to do and has no reply value.
By all means though if you think your a superior being for loving GW2 and we're all living in the past go ahead, who are we to stop you?
"You diehard GW2 fanbois are truly pathetic."
They are are they.... and I am, am I?
"By all means though if you think your a superior being for loving GW2 and we're all living in the past go ahead, who are we to stop you?"
I wasn't aware I thought of myself as a superior being. Interesting you 'picked up on that' - can't say anyone else ever has, but your insights are so much more accurate than anyone elses' I suspect.
The only thing 'hillariously simple' about GW2 is the quality of posts like yours. You insult, you make statements of 'fact' without the slightest corroborating evidence etc. For instance - do a straw poll of people who think the dungeons are hard as opposed to easy as you state. Apart from the CoF easymode run which tackled by ANet, and to a lesser extent the storymodes (some of which still nevertheless challenge) you are notable in the rarity of your point of view.
People don't generally agree with you that dungeons are easy in other words.
I realise you will not agree - but then at least I managed to dissagree with your point of view without insulting you....
At first would probably have said it's preety bad, or at least annoying, but after playing for a while, I like it. Thing is, in explorable mode at least, the game does force you to addapt.
About healing, I play a tanky support guardian, whit gear that has + heal on it, and, altho there aren't many direct heals, I can do 2.5k heals on everyone around me with 1 skill, like 1.8h with another and give a lot of regeneration and shields to team mates.
Not all explorables require exotics, but I would say stuff like Arah or CoE explorable, does, or at least it is recommended to have it.
You can run explorables as glass cannons, 2 people in my usual group are just that, but you need to use toughness food and the potion that is specific to each dungeon (- 10% dmg taken from those enemies and +10% done to them; you can check the names on the token armor vendors, but should buy at TP, they are cheap so not worth to spend 1 badge on them at that vendor).
What I do find dumb, is trash packs being harder than bosses sometimes, but it seems they want to address that and they are also working on rewards which is a good thing also.
Also a lot of the time, you don't have to change traits, but you do have to change your 7-10 skills, for certain encounters. Don't be affraid to do that, it will help a lot. For example, some range mobs were being really hard, decimating our health...until me and another guardian in our group started using wall of reflection (think it's called) and they started killing themselves.
I agree that a few of the story modes are sometimes too hard for story modes and it can discourage people from trying further to learn certain tricks like changing skills and using combos. Maybe a more in depth tutorial would help. Like a lvl 20 mini dungeon where you have certain small chalanges in which it's explained how to overcome through the use of combo fields or certain skills that might not seem attractive at first sight.
Trash mobs can be CC'ed to oblivion.
Bosses require boon stacking and damage which is probably closer to what people run 24/7.
The first time you do a dungeon and have traps covering the entire room and 3 mobs spamming AoE it seems impossible, crazy insane masochist stuff.
The 3rd time it is trivial.
Still find trash packs with 2 stun channelers and 2 deadeyes that almost 1 shot you while staying near a minefield, harder to handle than some of the bosses in Arah explorable, for example, even with stability and CC.
I really like GW2, but the dungeons are one thing I really don't care for, I do them with friends, family, guildies, when they want to go, but there's no way I'll grind out armor sets. They're probably the worse dungeons I've ever played in in an mmo. I go in with pretty organised groups so it's not a total wipefest, I just don't enjoy GW2 dungeons at all. It's like they tried to make them epic but fell short. It's lets throw dozens of mobs at them or let's give them a few mobs or one big one with a ton of hitpoints so it takes longer to kill them. At least I'm given the choice to do them though, I'm not forced, as in other games to grind out gear in them, so that makes me happy.
Originally posted by Aerowyn gotta learn combo fields.. if you get a group together that knows how to utliize combo fields well dungeons can be a blast
Exactly!
Which is why I play a Longbow Warrior primary Sword/Warhorn secondary with shouts and runes of the soldier in dungeons, having so much combo potential and condition removal makes the dungeons go alot smoother.
Just remember to spec for condition removal, and combo fields and your dungeon runs will go alot smoother.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I am a known GW2 fan... But, ultimately, I am also a group based PvEer, and I also don't like their dungeons much.
I know GW2 has been very clear about it's no trinity and eSports PvP philosophy, and I hold it no bad feeling as a game because of the way groups work, but in the long term I know it isn't for me because of it. The PvE game is too heavily at the mercy of PvP design for my tastes. The group PvE game seems to be tacked on as an afterthought.
Put simply, when it comes to group content, I miss strong group roles and all that brings.
Wow, thats 20 hours a day (game has been out for 30 days I think - August 25 (early access) to today included)... that leaves 4 hours to sleep, washing, eating, etc...
Yeah, sure
And you played 600+ hours in 30 days and didn't notice you can switch builds for a 3s50c fee at any trainer?
You hit the nail on the head there Korrigan.
A player who opens their arguement with a dismissive 'I have more time online in GW2 than you so any counter-arguement you make is invalid' and then overblows it with an impossible figure.
.... and another poster saying they 'miss strategy'.... hell that translates pretty accurately to 'I miss predictable scripting and repeat same tactic = win' gameplay.
The comment on combo fields is also well made - they make a tremendous difference.
I for one run dungeons with power/toughness/heal accessories and power/crit/condition damage armour and weapons and do just fine. You only need to stack vitality/toughness/power if you lack skill and/or adaptability.
The difference between a PUG lacking in cohesion and synergy and a guild-team who understand that the whole is more than the sum of the parts is very marked in dungeons.
Yes it is a more complex challenge. Yes, you will wipe a lot if you go in wth your 'WoW Raid Head', but things improve significantly once you realise the dungeons in GW2 require a more flexible form of team play.
I have experienced some of the worst and the best dungeon runs in this regard and it is as clear as crystal why the bad was painful, and the good was a triumph.
It will be obvious to anyone else still struggling as long as they stick at it - better yet, get into one of my Guilds dungeon runs and see the difference for yourself.
The game is a new take on things - clinging to the old paradigms isn't going to work.
Stop being such Luddites about it....
I do love how you and Korrigan seem to jump on that guy, over he's, '600 hour', statement, because really that's all the pair of you have to go on isn't? I'd suspect he's done a lot more dungeons and has more experience of that mode then you, but you must discredit him because he's negative about saintly GW2. You diehard GW2 fanbois are truly pathetic.
GW2's dungeons are actually hillariously simplistic, They have much less variety then WoW's raids, sorry to tell you. Here's how to succeed at dungeons: 1. Bring a Guardian, with a sword and shield. 2. Bring a Mesmer, who is fine with condition/debuffing, 3. Bring whoever else with toughness and vitality signets. 4. Stick everyone at range, apart from the Guardian who should dodge when he can. 5. WIN!
If your having problems with that, or can't get that setup, graveyard zerg till it dies, (Twins is especially fun doing this!).
That is pretty much it. The games, 'difficulty', comes from mistakes or unavoidable aoe, which just blows you away. I.E. Like others have said mobs that hit like trucks, that's just poor design because it's simply to do and has no reply value.
By all means though if you think your a superior being for loving GW2 and we're all living in the past go ahead, who are we to stop you?
I am a known GW2 fan... But, ultimately, I am also a group based PvEer, and I also don't like their dungeons much.
I know GW2 has been very clear about it's no trinity and eSports PvP philosophy, and I hold it no bad feeling as a game because of the way groups work, but in the long term I know it isn't for me because of it. The PvE game is too heavily at the mercy of PvP design for my tastes. The group PvE game seems to be tacked on as an afterthought.
Put simply, when it comes to group content, I miss strong group roles and all that brings. Like I say though, I do consider the game a success and well worth my money, I just don't see it being my 'A' game past me getting done with the solo PvE side of things.
I love their art style, their NPC scripting, and what they have done with their open world solo PvE (because playing alongside someone isn't the same as playing WITH them, no matter how you dress it). ANet are sublime world builders. I think the inclusion of extras like vistas, jumping puzzles, and the diverse environments for me to explore around in are awesome. When I am done with all this, I will be done with the game until new content that suits me is dropped in.
I know it will piss some off and cause them to spit their dummies out, but I personally would enjoy the game more if the tanks could tank and the healers could actually heal. Why allow me to build a healing or tanking spec if that style of play is not viable? It's just the illusion of choice.
Wow, thats 20 hours a day (game has been out for 30 days I think - August 25 (early access) to today included)... that leaves 4 hours to sleep, washing, eating, etc...
Yeah, sure
And you played 600+ hours in 30 days and didn't notice you can switch builds for a 3s50c fee at any trainer?
You hit the nail on the head there Korrigan.
A player who opens their arguement with a dismissive 'I have more time online in GW2 than you so any counter-arguement you make is invalid' and then overblows it with an impossible figure.
.... and another poster saying they 'miss strategy'.... hell that translates pretty accurately to 'I miss predictable scripting and repeat same tactic = win' gameplay.
The comment on combo fields is also well made - they make a tremendous difference.
I for one run dungeons with power/toughness/heal accessories and power/crit/condition damage armour and weapons and do just fine. You only need to stack vitality/toughness/power if you lack skill and/or adaptability.
The difference between a PUG lacking in cohesion and synergy and a guild-team who understand that the whole is more than the sum of the parts is very marked in dungeons.
Yes it is a more complex challenge. Yes, you will wipe a lot if you go in wth your 'WoW Raid Head', but things improve significantly once you realise the dungeons in GW2 require a more flexible form of team play.
I have experienced some of the worst and the best dungeon runs in this regard and it is as clear as crystal why the bad was painful, and the good was a triumph.
It will be obvious to anyone else still struggling as long as they stick at it - better yet, get into one of my Guilds dungeon runs and see the difference for yourself.
The game is a new take on things - clinging to the old paradigms isn't going to work.
Stop being such Luddites about it....
I do love how you and Korrigan seem to jump on that guy, over he's, '600 hour', statement, because really that's all the pair of you have to go on isn't? I'd suspect he's done a lot more dungeons and has more experience of that mode then you, but you must discredit him because he's negative about saintly GW2. You diehard GW2 fanbois are truly pathetic.
GW2's dungeons are actually hillariously simplistic, They have much less variety then WoW's raids, sorry to tell you. Here's how to succeed at dungeons: 1. Bring a Guardian, with a sword and shield. 2. Bring a Mesmer, who is fine with condition/debuffing, 3. Bring whoever else with toughness and vitality signets. 4. Stick everyone at range, apart from the Guardian who should dodge when he can. 5. WIN!
If your having problems with that, or can't get that setup, graveyard zerg till it dies, (Twins is especially fun doing this!).
That is pretty much it. The games, 'difficulty', comes from mistakes or unavoidable aoe, which just blows you away. I.E. Like others have said mobs that hit like trucks, that's just poor design because it's simply to do and has no reply value.
By all means though if you think your a superior being for loving GW2 and we're all living in the past go ahead, who are we to stop you?
+1
Yo, mods, when's this website getting a +1 (or -1 ofc) voting system for individual posts? It's time, don't ya think?
GW2 Dungeons should be called 'Bane of Casual McScrub'.
For casual 'non-pro' gamers the dungeons are a losing bet, sure to inflict pain and suffering for intangible rewards.
Untill they nerf DE's the risk/reward of GW2 dungeons is nor worth it. I have yet to see any pixel's that are worth it.
As was stated by the developer - the Dungeons are being studied to determine if they are hard or not. SOme of the worst instances I have been in were in GW1, until you figured out how to do them and PLAN it out. Then they were decent and fun.
I played Rift, and did some of the Elite dungeons (too many times for me) and I can say, the GW1/GW2 ones are different enough to peak my curiosity.
When entering the zone we started thru the story. First mob is a Golem, solo, and didn't go to bad. One death by a warrior but we got him up fast. I'm thinking ok, not to shabby. Second group of mobs is where it all went downhill. Your first pull there is about 4-5 mobs. Each one of them are "elite" which means even if all 5 of us are attacking it, it takes about 45-60 seconds to burn it down. Except there is no way to do ANYTHING about the other 4 beating on you. There is no tanking, no offtanking, no CC that is worth it. Most CC in this game last 3 seconds maybe. So needless to say, nearly every pull was a wipe. We spent as much time rezing people as we did fighting.
We beat the dungeon, but our strat was to all attack one mob, burn it down hopefully before we wiped, and come back and do it again. We would burn the barrel placers first and so on.
I know that CM was made harder recenetly, but this was just storymode. I felt like I didn't learn anything from the story because I was to busy cringing at this system. There was NOTHING FUN about this dungeon. We also had a person quit and we had to replace them during this dungeon because he said (sorry guys..this dugeon system is horrible..I am going to uninstall).
My character was setup for PVE and grouping. I had healing spring with some points into healing, search and rescue to help with rezing and the healing spirit. There was no way to heal thru that damage. We also had a guardian and that helped some but just prolonged how long it took us to wipe.
I miss my healers, tanks, and true CC. I lost motivation to level now because I do enjoy PVE more then PVP and knowing that is all I have to look forward to in dungeons is quite dishearting. I love every other aspect of this game, crafting, quest, pvp, graphics, but this is to core of a system for me to overlook. There is a difference between core mehanics and difficulty. The core mechanics on dungeons is just broke. Even if they made it super easy and a zerg fest, there would still be no "skill" to the system. It is either boring no pay attention killing, or just a wipe and res as fast as you can event. I miss strategy.
So you were bad and because of that you complain ? For some reason some groups have it quite easy. Did you think about it a little ? Why is that ?
There is big difference between GW2 and other themeparks like Rift, WoW, TOR etc. It's not designed around stationary combat. So tank role is not to stay still, take agro and wait while healer is healing him. In this game being a punching bag is NOT A VALID TACTIC.
When I'm configured around defense (traits, traits bonuses, skills, weapon etc) I keep my shields up when I'm about to be hit. There are multiple shields like someone mentioned. Also I dodge a lot. Only idiot don't dodge incomings. I heal only when I need to. As secondary weapon I use scepter (nice AOE + rate of fire, too slow so only for PVE + short CC) and focus (for 3-hit shield that blow up).
As offensive guardian I use mutliple AOE + combo attacks and stuff to create literally a deathfield around me. I can burn down multiple oponents VERY VERY fast. Not good for champions but I'm not a nuker. My job is to take multiple weak enemies.
We also gather group with people that specialize in some roles. In dungeons I'm tanking but not TOR/WoW/RIft way. My job is to get attention and don't get killed by shielding, dodging and using skills. For example as hammer user I can create nice circle for 5s that will keep mobs in check and will not allow them to leave. Best to focus everything you got on that circle when it's on (whole team).
People say that in GW2 there is no tanking, healing etc. They are WRONG. Everything is in place. Difference is that no class is design for specific role. Take a TOR for example. You have trees for 2-3 roles right ? In theory. But in the end you will end up with the role your class was originally designed to do because it will be best at it. Part of this problem is that tree system was added quite late in TOR after people complain about trinity.
GW2 have no trinity. You are free to make a healer out of guardian. Just remember that in this game healing is just another way of support. Is not something that you focus all you are doing around. Healing will help someone but it will not keep you alive for a long.
In the end, I find GW2 dungeons much more enjoyable. Only thing I would change is to add mutliple patterns of attack/defense for them and less HP to make fights more interesting and shorter. In Rift/WoW/TOR all you were doing is "rotation" to burn down enemies while tank was taking agro. He was standing there doing from little to nothing while healers where keeping us all alive. And healing was so powerfull that when 2-3 healers were doing cross-healing in arena, you could not take them down.
Quite supid I must say. ANet give you a choice. Use it. Don't complain.
I do love how you and Korrigan seem to jump on that guy, over he's, '600 hour', statement, because really that's all the pair of you have to go on isn't?
Exactly.
And if he had said that he had got 600+ hours on his account, and the game is..."GREAT!!! Dying in dungeons means you are playing it wrong!!!! Its all working well, unless you are a WoW scrub so go back to WoW and dont call this game flawed in any way you hater", then those 2 posters would have readily quoted him as 'an experienced GW2 player' to further their points and used his posts as proof that the OP is wrong.
Double standards of the poorest kind. And ofcourse that other poster might come back with another condescendingly smug drivel about what he would have done, but thats just the nature of petty people to act ignorant when called out on their BS.
For as much as I like GW2, I feel the game fell short on having worthwhile dungeons by a long shot...Its "different" by ANet's point of view but IMHO its just a bad kind of unbalanced 'different'.
Proud Member of the A.F-D-A. [Anti Fanboy-Defense-Army]Association for a Better Tomorrow or [A.F-D-A.]AfaBT, in short.
Comments
After reading so many posts about dungeons on here and GW2 forums ive come to some interesting conclusions.
1. For a supposedly anti-elitist game the general attitude towards people who say negative things about dungeons is "you arent skiled enough" or "get better" ... i loled
2.If you find the trinity system boring in dungeons ( i honestly doubt %95 of GW2 players ever did any good trintiy hard mode content) how the hell do you find kiting, dodging and ressing more fun ? honestly i dont see what part of taking turns kiting a mob around dodging randomly when u can and ressing people constantly is even remotely entertaining or challenging for that matter ....... sure combo fields are cool but that doesnt change that with the current system other than combos you dodge,kite and res for every fight.... repettative much ?
3.All the non gear grind go back to wow haters and fanbois , i notice your either silent or in agreeance with dungeons needing better "rewards" , this is also in line with " we dont need a carrot " i thought that this was all about fun and challenge, the reward for doing the dungeon was getting to do it ?
4. The inability to play your class how you want in dungeons due to such poor mechanics makes me pray that no one else ever comes out with such a poor non trinity concept with such boring mechanics. Its the same problem i have with the classes and skills, if im a duel pistol thief thats what i want to use, i dont want to be forced to change weapons to get what feels like character depth, i dont want to br forced to run 1 of 3 theif weapon/trait combos to be able to do pve content, i thought this was what GW2 was supposed to change but in reality its the opposite, ive never felt like my char had less choice or depth in any other game.
1. The skill requirement is much more of a factor than the gear requirement to a greater degree than other MMOs. Stating this isn't elitist, it's simply a fact which needs adjusting to. I agree being dimissive of people based on skill is poor ettiquette, but it is in reponse to people saying the game is s**t because they want it to be more gear based etc.
2. '95%' of GW2 players never did any hard/good trinity content did they? This comment could be so easily used to dimiss anything else you say as utterly irrelevant. It is a 'statistic' you pulled out of the air and presented as fact - undermining your position about as completely as you could have done.
....never mind eh!?.....
3. 'wow-haters and fanbois'.... fine as shorthand if you have a balanced arguement, but you don't, so once again your point is undermined as readers classify you as a 'GW2-hater' and stop giving what you say any weight.
4. I have the ability to play my class any way I please. I am wondering why you think YOU don't? Your comment about dual-wielding pistols is especially revealing. In short - you want one tactic to work for everything - sounds very much like a more traditional MMO player used to the same weapon and button rotation for all enemies and situations to me....
I really don't understand the vitriol poured out over GW2 by the players of other MMOs complaining that GW2 is different and 'different = fail'.
In the face of this unreasoning position it is understandable that people revert to 'ltp' or 'play something else' comments. As the answers to my reasoned response in this post will attest - being logical and engaging on the issues accomplishes nothing....
.... but I didn't dismiss you did I - I tackled your arguement, which in my opinion is without any real merit.
I understand where the OP is coming from, but a lot of the complaints I hear in regards to the dungeons comes from people who still approach it like it's a Trinity based system. I know that most people by now know that the game is supposed to be a 'non trinity', but it doesn't change a large segment of the population from trying to play it as one.
Usually, the dungeons only turn into zergy death-fests when people try and approach them in such a way. I've successfully PUGed all the dungeons, multiple times, with various class combos. Really, what it comes down to is the following:
1) Glass cannons don't work. If you're going to be doing dungeons (especially explorables), throw on some HP gear. WIth a little bit of vitality, you will not be getting 1 shotted, and usually won't even be getting 2 shotted by most enemies. This doesn't mean you need to stack mostly vit, but having a split between the two gives you enough time to react, and to get your heal skill off cooldown to stay alive longer. Dead dps is no dps after all.
2) Pay attention to your surroundings. Everyone is responsible for taking care of themselves to an extent. If you are getting hit, then it's your turn to kite a bit. Use CC, blocking skills, evasions, etc. until you can get the enemy to switch targets.
3) Get downed players up fast.
4) Pay attention to the mechanics. Each fight has various methods of approaching it, and various ways to approach it. Every class as some way of dealing w/ the encounter. For example in CM, skils that reflect projectiles, blind, or grant block / evasion to allies help a ton. A lot of people go in with optimal damage builds, and never bother to bring condition removal, CC, or defensive skills to a fight. This is a huge mistake. Sometimes you can get lucky with group composition, and have allies that take care of all of that stuff for you, but it's not very common.
5) The first run is always the hardest. As people get used to the mechanics, a lot of mistakes get made. Naturally this leads to deaths. Do multiple runs, or try and do dungeons with people you know have ran them before. It makes them a lot easier to do.
Communicate with your team if they're new. Find out what skills they are bringing to the fight, and see if there's anything your group might be missing. Wooden Potatoes also has a few decent videos on AC explorable, where he mentions some of the above points and gives some tips.
how old are u ? cause Gw2 got a dungeon system just like Wow.. so dont complain about it.. Gw2 offers better dungeons harder dungeons.. and i love it u dont i accept it.
kidding right?
Indeed you do - how predictably ironic.
I do love how you and Korrigan seem to jump on that guy, over he's, '600 hour', statement, because really that's all the pair of you have to go on isn't? I'd suspect he's done a lot more dungeons and has more experience of that mode then you, but you must discredit him because he's negative about saintly GW2. You diehard GW2 fanbois are truly pathetic.
GW2's dungeons are actually hillariously simplistic, They have much less variety then WoW's raids, sorry to tell you. Here's how to succeed at dungeons: 1. Bring a Guardian, with a sword and shield. 2. Bring a Mesmer, who is fine with condition/debuffing, 3. Bring whoever else with toughness and vitality signets. 4. Stick everyone at range, apart from the Guardian who should dodge when he can. 5. WIN!
If your having problems with that, or can't get that setup, graveyard zerg till it dies, (Twins is especially fun doing this!).
That is pretty much it. The games, 'difficulty', comes from mistakes or unavoidable aoe, which just blows you away. I.E. Like others have said mobs that hit like trucks, that's just poor design because it's simply to do and has no reply value.
By all means though if you think your a superior being for loving GW2 and we're all living in the past go ahead, who are we to stop you?
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
At first would probably have said it's preety bad, or at least annoying, but after playing for a while, I like it. Thing is, in explorable mode at least, the game does force you to addapt.
About healing, I play a tanky support guardian, whit gear that has + heal on it, and, altho there aren't many direct heals, I can do 2.5k heals on everyone around me with 1 skill, like 1.8h with another and give a lot of regeneration and shields to team mates.
Not all explorables require exotics, but I would say stuff like Arah or CoE explorable, does, or at least it is recommended to have it.
You can run explorables as glass cannons, 2 people in my usual group are just that, but you need to use toughness food and the potion that is specific to each dungeon (- 10% dmg taken from those enemies and +10% done to them; you can check the names on the token armor vendors, but should buy at TP, they are cheap so not worth to spend 1 badge on them at that vendor).
What I do find dumb, is trash packs being harder than bosses sometimes, but it seems they want to address that and they are also working on rewards which is a good thing also.
Also a lot of the time, you don't have to change traits, but you do have to change your 7-10 skills, for certain encounters. Don't be affraid to do that, it will help a lot. For example, some range mobs were being really hard, decimating our health...until me and another guardian in our group started using wall of reflection (think it's called) and they started killing themselves.
I agree that a few of the story modes are sometimes too hard for story modes and it can discourage people from trying further to learn certain tricks like changing skills and using combos. Maybe a more in depth tutorial would help. Like a lvl 20 mini dungeon where you have certain small chalanges in which it's explained how to overcome through the use of combo fields or certain skills that might not seem attractive at first sight.
This
Seriously guys do you really have to defend everything this game has even if said dungeons are not that great?
Zhaitan battle anyone?
Worst boss fight ever, so disappointing.
Trash mobs can be CC'ed to oblivion.
Bosses require boon stacking and damage which is probably closer to what people run 24/7.
The first time you do a dungeon and have traps covering the entire room and 3 mobs spamming AoE it seems impossible, crazy insane masochist stuff.
The 3rd time it is trivial.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I'm sorry, but anyone that require any special strategy aside 1 guy throwing rocks at 1 of the twins doesn't deserve any credit.
I would also like to know how people are doing with mass defense vs the graveling burrows in AC explorable or how is that graveyard zerging working.
The crap one reads about this game is endless.
Yes, Zhaitain fight is a letdown.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
"You diehard GW2 fanbois are truly pathetic."
They are are they.... and I am, am I?
"By all means though if you think your a superior being for loving GW2 and we're all living in the past go ahead, who are we to stop you?"
I wasn't aware I thought of myself as a superior being. Interesting you 'picked up on that' - can't say anyone else ever has, but your insights are so much more accurate than anyone elses' I suspect.
The only thing 'hillariously simple' about GW2 is the quality of posts like yours. You insult, you make statements of 'fact' without the slightest corroborating evidence etc. For instance - do a straw poll of people who think the dungeons are hard as opposed to easy as you state. Apart from the CoF easymode run which tackled by ANet, and to a lesser extent the storymodes (some of which still nevertheless challenge) you are notable in the rarity of your point of view.
People don't generally agree with you that dungeons are easy in other words.
I realise you will not agree - but then at least I managed to dissagree with your point of view without insulting you....
....something I find 'hillariously simple'.
Still find trash packs with 2 stun channelers and 2 deadeyes that almost 1 shot you while staying near a minefield, harder to handle than some of the bosses in Arah explorable, for example, even with stability and CC.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Exactly!
Which is why I play a Longbow Warrior primary Sword/Warhorn secondary with shouts and runes of the soldier in dungeons, having so much combo potential and condition removal makes the dungeons go alot smoother.
Just remember to spec for condition removal, and combo fields and your dungeon runs will go alot smoother.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I am a known GW2 fan... But, ultimately, I am also a group based PvEer, and I also don't like their dungeons much.
I know GW2 has been very clear about it's no trinity and eSports PvP philosophy, and I hold it no bad feeling as a game because of the way groups work, but in the long term I know it isn't for me because of it. The PvE game is too heavily at the mercy of PvP design for my tastes. The group PvE game seems to be tacked on as an afterthought.
Put simply, when it comes to group content, I miss strong group roles and all that brings.
edited for clarity
+1
This is what I think about the game too
Yo, mods, when's this website getting a +1 (or -1 ofc) voting system for individual posts? It's time, don't ya think?
GW2 Dungeons should be called 'Bane of Casual McScrub'.
For casual 'non-pro' gamers the dungeons are a losing bet, sure to inflict pain and suffering for intangible rewards.
Untill they nerf DE's the risk/reward of GW2 dungeons is nor worth it. I have yet to see any pixel's that are worth it.
As was stated by the developer - the Dungeons are being studied to determine if they are hard or not. SOme of the worst instances I have been in were in GW1, until you figured out how to do them and PLAN it out. Then they were decent and fun.
I played Rift, and did some of the Elite dungeons (too many times for me) and I can say, the GW1/GW2 ones are different enough to peak my curiosity.
So you were bad and because of that you complain ? For some reason some groups have it quite easy. Did you think about it a little ? Why is that ?
There is big difference between GW2 and other themeparks like Rift, WoW, TOR etc. It's not designed around stationary combat. So tank role is not to stay still, take agro and wait while healer is healing him. In this game being a punching bag is NOT A VALID TACTIC.
When I'm configured around defense (traits, traits bonuses, skills, weapon etc) I keep my shields up when I'm about to be hit. There are multiple shields like someone mentioned. Also I dodge a lot. Only idiot don't dodge incomings. I heal only when I need to. As secondary weapon I use scepter (nice AOE + rate of fire, too slow so only for PVE + short CC) and focus (for 3-hit shield that blow up).
As offensive guardian I use mutliple AOE + combo attacks and stuff to create literally a deathfield around me. I can burn down multiple oponents VERY VERY fast. Not good for champions but I'm not a nuker. My job is to take multiple weak enemies.
We also gather group with people that specialize in some roles. In dungeons I'm tanking but not TOR/WoW/RIft way. My job is to get attention and don't get killed by shielding, dodging and using skills. For example as hammer user I can create nice circle for 5s that will keep mobs in check and will not allow them to leave. Best to focus everything you got on that circle when it's on (whole team).
People say that in GW2 there is no tanking, healing etc. They are WRONG. Everything is in place. Difference is that no class is design for specific role. Take a TOR for example. You have trees for 2-3 roles right ? In theory. But in the end you will end up with the role your class was originally designed to do because it will be best at it. Part of this problem is that tree system was added quite late in TOR after people complain about trinity.
GW2 have no trinity. You are free to make a healer out of guardian. Just remember that in this game healing is just another way of support. Is not something that you focus all you are doing around. Healing will help someone but it will not keep you alive for a long.
In the end, I find GW2 dungeons much more enjoyable. Only thing I would change is to add mutliple patterns of attack/defense for them and less HP to make fights more interesting and shorter. In Rift/WoW/TOR all you were doing is "rotation" to burn down enemies while tank was taking agro. He was standing there doing from little to nothing while healers where keeping us all alive. And healing was so powerfull that when 2-3 healers were doing cross-healing in arena, you could not take them down.
Quite supid I must say. ANet give you a choice. Use it. Don't complain.
Exactly.
And if he had said that he had got 600+ hours on his account, and the game is..."GREAT!!! Dying in dungeons means you are playing it wrong!!!! Its all working well, unless you are a WoW scrub so go back to WoW and dont call this game flawed in any way you hater", then those 2 posters would have readily quoted him as 'an experienced GW2 player' to further their points and used his posts as proof that the OP is wrong.
Double standards of the poorest kind. And ofcourse that other poster might come back with another condescendingly smug drivel about what he would have done, but thats just the nature of petty people to act ignorant when called out on their BS.
For as much as I like GW2, I feel the game fell short on having worthwhile dungeons by a long shot...Its "different" by ANet's point of view but IMHO its just a bad kind of unbalanced 'different'.
Proud Member of the A.F-D-A. [Anti Fanboy-Defense-Army]Association for a Better Tomorrow or [A.F-D-A.]AfaBT, in short.