Jesus, are you this dumb? He's not saying 3 faction pvp is bad, He's saying that the hero engine can barely handle 2 factions in one area and when you throw in a whole more faction of people things will turn to shit.
yeah but hes wrong
BIOWARE cant handle lots of players in one area, because - they DONT CARE, they care about single player story, they wanted to make kotor3, EA forced them to make a MMO.
The fact that he's wrong isn't whats annoying, it's that they keep arguing about two different thing, I was trying to help anyone's cause here just trying to get them to quit bitching at each other for nothing.
I agree, this game will be TES in name only, it will be nothing at all like the sandbox rpg's that made the IP popular.
Put what worked in RPG into an MMO environment, it might not work so well, thats one of the many reasons BETH didn't want to make an Elder scroll Game..
Its almost impossible to capture how the single player game plays in a MMO environment..
These guys aren't touting anything revolutionary... Basically all they are doing is making a prelude to all the events of the single player games
TOA made DAOC better, WoW is what actually killed DAOC.
If any expansion was considered some what crappy, it was NF for DAOC. While had good features and bad features. I personally didn't mind it so much, but some people were stuck on the concept of Emain being fantastic (when it really wasn't that super great)
NF suffered probably cause it was just flat, If there wasn't a little mountain range, the land was basically just flat.
However back to TOA, anyone who thinks TOA was a crappy expansion clearly didn't PVP when the good players did in DAOC, because the level of skill required to compete in TOA was way more then SI days.
Pleaae tell me this is going to be an fps type game ala skyrim/darkfall/mo and not tab target :S
Please do the name justice! no t ab target crap!
Yep, tab targeting is in. Yay for tab targeting. The last thing I want is twitchy combat. You guys already have what, 6 games out or in the queue that will be action based and more than you deserve.
geesh, this game is at least a year away, and ppl are already calling it bad, sucks, fail, etc etc. some people just cant help it I guess, since they are losers, everything else has to be.
If you weren't a moron, you would realise that at this point in development they simply can't change the core mechanics anymore. They can up the graphics somewhat, add some trinkets here and there to get few idiots excited, stuff like that. But the game underneath wont change.
What we see now is what we get. And they are serving us a pile of crap, you really don't need to be a genius to see that.
I'm genius enough to see you being disrespectful of other playstyles than your own. I happen to like what TESO is offering and it's the only one coming out in the next year or two that isn't going to be a twitchy combat pile of crap. You have two games out now, one recently released and 4 coming down the pike to fit your playstyle and you have the gall to sit there and act as if every single game should be made for you?
I see a ton of posts complaining about the 3 faction warfare or claiming how ffa pvp would be best for it. But FFA pvp sucks royally. It's just sanctioned ganking, mostly for pansies who don't wanna be any part of an in-game war but instead want to kill someone by going after people that are in tough situations that are guaranteed to die if attacked by a pvper. But, to be honest, at the same time, artificially forced 3 faction warfare doesn't sit well in TES, in my opinion. However, there ARE nations in the whole TES world. To me, it'd make sense for people to be any race they want, and just join one of the nations. There, you could have the fixed "factions" in the form of those nations. And considering that people from almost every race seem to be all over the world regardless of nation, I think that'd work in solving that problem.
Either way, though, it's kinda pointless to discuss it if they've already decided it fully.
Still, not very much has been officially announced regarding the game, and most of what we've heard so far is what they want or plan to have in it. We don't actually know enough about the game to solidly judge any part of it at this point. Right now, all we can do is wait and see what comes up and what's actually in it. It's far too early to say the game's gonna suck, especially since none of us have played it yet. That'd be like saying that a food is nasty without having actually tasting it.
In Wildness is the Preservation of the World So Seek the Wolf in Thyself
Every game claims to copy DAoC's rvr setup. None of them ever seem to come close. SWTOR was fail, Warhammer epic fail, Guild Wars 2 fail, WoW like pvp is garbage for the newb cookie cutter type people with tons of freetime and prepubescent gamers and old casual gamers. I highly doubt any of these new MMO's out can even come close to making a DAoC type pvp system. First off, if its not 3 factions, doesnt have open world RVR/PVP with no crappy 1-5 man instanced PVP dugneon crap, safe areas for pve only the game is fail by concept. Execution, graphics, UI, pvp mechanics aren't even worth getting into if they cant meet the first few criteria.
If it doesn't start with that criteria the game isn't worth playing. I'll get it and play it just to prove my point either way. But no game has yet to live up to what DAoC players consider the "right" way to do RvRvR. Not even close.
They need to start with those basic concepts and work the game around a 3 realm system, with open RvRvR. So the masses can work together so no one side is stronger than the others. Stop with this switching faction crap so the player base has a sense of realm time. 1 server 1 faction, thats it period. Cross realming and multiple factions on one side or the other just kills games.
Daoc had 3 completely separate safe pve areas, one for each faction, and one pvp area the frontiers.
I don't think they will cross realm either. That's usually in games where the pvp is secondary like wow, rift, swtor, tsw etc.. the "rvr" in TESO is the main endgame, so I doubt it.
I agree with you on adding minigame pvp, they shouldn't be doing that.
I am neither for or against this game at this point, too early to tell. However, I think its kind of funny that people are bashing it for using the Hero Engine when that is not true at all.
Too bad Zenimax is forcing them to include instances and phasing, when the lead developer is trying to talk up the importance of public dungeons.
WoW clone through and through. If they got rid of the instances I might be excited. DAoC didn't just have great PvP, it had great PvE too. This game doesn't look like it will.
Altmer, Bosmer, and Khajit is not going to be a viable faction. I mean how on Earth could you see that as being a viable faction.
The faction with Nords and Dark Elves is easily going to rule because they were the protagonist races in the two best Elder Scrolls games. Technically, you didn't have to be a Dark Elf in Morrowind, and you didn't have to be a Nord in Skyrim, but you were also kind of doing it wrong if you weren't with the way the story was written. Yeah you could be an argonian or khajit Nerevarine or Dragonborn, but it was kindof just shoehorned in there and the story mode dealt with it by not dealing with it, by just ignoring it. Oh and they'll take a few Argonians along for the ride.
Bretons and Orcs and Red Guards...soldily in second place. They'll benefit from well defined combat roles, but will probably end up being too heavy on Breton mages.
Race based PVP factions in the Elder scrolls is a giant fail of an idea, probably no matter how you do it. Race in the Elder Scrolls is somewhat like a faction, but race factions are also like a seperate set of factions to some extent. PVP should be based around the POLITICAL factions for lore purposes. NPCs would have more race/political faction correlation, but player characters should have more freedom to choose, and the political faction breakdown should be different in each major realm.
Elder Scrolls also has an issue where character races are rather hard wired to certain class bonuses. The MMO genre is moving away from this on the whole because of the min-max issues it creates, where many of the possible character race/class combinations are rendered useless and rarely made. It works fine in a PVE/story mode game but creates big problems in a PVP game.
Can't be any good. 2013 will give proof of that. Until then, its the usual Marketing "blabla".
Northing of worth.
And it's for folks like you that think that Illum has anything on a true Three Faction mmorpg pvp game - where races, classes, lore, armor, weapons, architecture, spell animations, etc., are different than each other's realm.
I don't blame you - most folks grew up in the WoW generation (2004+) and never saw Dark Age of Camelot before her graphics and UI dated out...but rethink you opinion friend - this is not some watered down cut and paste faction game - this is truly developed lore and a pvp vision built around it.
Most gamers have never experienced realm pride - or had any sense of US vs Them vs Them...you have been taught that races and classes are cosmetic, that pvp is a battleground with a Huttball or a flag on the back of a druid. You haven't spent hours in a 300 man raid in a persistant pvp environment, taking castles, defending keeps, taking territory.
This will change that and for the first time, those who post date the WoW genre on their gaming resume' will have something truly tangible to sink their fangs into.
Comments
The fact that he's wrong isn't whats annoying, it's that they keep arguing about two different thing, I was trying to help anyone's cause here just trying to get them to quit bitching at each other for nothing.
Yes I played SWTOR.
I agree, this game will be TES in name only, it will be nothing at all like the sandbox rpg's that made the IP popular.
Put what worked in RPG into an MMO environment, it might not work so well, thats one of the many reasons BETH didn't want to make an Elder scroll Game..
Its almost impossible to capture how the single player game plays in a MMO environment..
These guys aren't touting anything revolutionary... Basically all they are doing is making a prelude to all the events of the single player games
TOA made DAOC better, WoW is what actually killed DAOC.
If any expansion was considered some what crappy, it was NF for DAOC. While had good features and bad features. I personally didn't mind it so much, but some people were stuck on the concept of Emain being fantastic (when it really wasn't that super great)
NF suffered probably cause it was just flat, If there wasn't a little mountain range, the land was basically just flat.
However back to TOA, anyone who thinks TOA was a crappy expansion clearly didn't PVP when the good players did in DAOC, because the level of skill required to compete in TOA was way more then SI days.
Yep, tab targeting is in. Yay for tab targeting. The last thing I want is twitchy combat. You guys already have what, 6 games out or in the queue that will be action based and more than you deserve.
I quit DAOC entirely because of TOA, and didn't touch WoW until years later (after Cataclysm)
Not going to debate what other people's reasons might have been, but just saying. ToA was exactly what killed it for me, no question.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I'm genius enough to see you being disrespectful of other playstyles than your own. I happen to like what TESO is offering and it's the only one coming out in the next year or two that isn't going to be a twitchy combat pile of crap. You have two games out now, one recently released and 4 coming down the pike to fit your playstyle and you have the gall to sit there and act as if every single game should be made for you?
I see a ton of posts complaining about the 3 faction warfare or claiming how ffa pvp would be best for it. But FFA pvp sucks royally. It's just sanctioned ganking, mostly for pansies who don't wanna be any part of an in-game war but instead want to kill someone by going after people that are in tough situations that are guaranteed to die if attacked by a pvper. But, to be honest, at the same time, artificially forced 3 faction warfare doesn't sit well in TES, in my opinion. However, there ARE nations in the whole TES world. To me, it'd make sense for people to be any race they want, and just join one of the nations. There, you could have the fixed "factions" in the form of those nations. And considering that people from almost every race seem to be all over the world regardless of nation, I think that'd work in solving that problem.
Either way, though, it's kinda pointless to discuss it if they've already decided it fully.
Still, not very much has been officially announced regarding the game, and most of what we've heard so far is what they want or plan to have in it. We don't actually know enough about the game to solidly judge any part of it at this point. Right now, all we can do is wait and see what comes up and what's actually in it. It's far too early to say the game's gonna suck, especially since none of us have played it yet. That'd be like saying that a food is nasty without having actually tasting it.
In Wildness is the Preservation of the World
So Seek the Wolf in Thyself
ffa pvp is the way to go.
having 3 factions will probbaly cause imbalance?unbalance?
Bad engine, no huge open world (engine won't support it), different developers, not FPS based like previous Elder Scrolls.
This game is going to fail so badly
Every game claims to copy DAoC's rvr setup. None of them ever seem to come close. SWTOR was fail, Warhammer epic fail, Guild Wars 2 fail, WoW like pvp is garbage for the newb cookie cutter type people with tons of freetime and prepubescent gamers and old casual gamers. I highly doubt any of these new MMO's out can even come close to making a DAoC type pvp system. First off, if its not 3 factions, doesnt have open world RVR/PVP with no crappy 1-5 man instanced PVP dugneon crap, safe areas for pve only the game is fail by concept. Execution, graphics, UI, pvp mechanics aren't even worth getting into if they cant meet the first few criteria.
If it doesn't start with that criteria the game isn't worth playing. I'll get it and play it just to prove my point either way. But no game has yet to live up to what DAoC players consider the "right" way to do RvRvR. Not even close.
They need to start with those basic concepts and work the game around a 3 realm system, with open RvRvR. So the masses can work together so no one side is stronger than the others. Stop with this switching faction crap so the player base has a sense of realm time. 1 server 1 faction, thats it period. Cross realming and multiple factions on one side or the other just kills games.
Daoc had 3 completely separate safe pve areas, one for each faction, and one pvp area the frontiers.
I don't think they will cross realm either. That's usually in games where the pvp is secondary like wow, rift, swtor, tsw etc.. the "rvr" in TESO is the main endgame, so I doubt it.
I agree with you on adding minigame pvp, they shouldn't be doing that.
Gw2 almost does it too, but it really really needs a darkness falls - IMO
I am neither for or against this game at this point, too early to tell. However, I think its kind of funny that people are bashing it for using the Hero Engine when that is not true at all.
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/25/why-the-elder-scrolls-online-isn-39-t-using-heroengine.aspx
Too bad Zenimax is forcing them to include instances and phasing, when the lead developer is trying to talk up the importance of public dungeons.
WoW clone through and through. If they got rid of the instances I might be excited. DAoC didn't just have great PvP, it had great PvE too. This game doesn't look like it will.
Altmer, Bosmer, and Khajit is not going to be a viable faction. I mean how on Earth could you see that as being a viable faction.
The faction with Nords and Dark Elves is easily going to rule because they were the protagonist races in the two best Elder Scrolls games. Technically, you didn't have to be a Dark Elf in Morrowind, and you didn't have to be a Nord in Skyrim, but you were also kind of doing it wrong if you weren't with the way the story was written. Yeah you could be an argonian or khajit Nerevarine or Dragonborn, but it was kindof just shoehorned in there and the story mode dealt with it by not dealing with it, by just ignoring it. Oh and they'll take a few Argonians along for the ride.
Bretons and Orcs and Red Guards...soldily in second place. They'll benefit from well defined combat roles, but will probably end up being too heavy on Breton mages.
Race based PVP factions in the Elder scrolls is a giant fail of an idea, probably no matter how you do it. Race in the Elder Scrolls is somewhat like a faction, but race factions are also like a seperate set of factions to some extent. PVP should be based around the POLITICAL factions for lore purposes. NPCs would have more race/political faction correlation, but player characters should have more freedom to choose, and the political faction breakdown should be different in each major realm.
Elder Scrolls also has an issue where character races are rather hard wired to certain class bonuses. The MMO genre is moving away from this on the whole because of the min-max issues it creates, where many of the possible character race/class combinations are rendered useless and rarely made. It works fine in a PVE/story mode game but creates big problems in a PVP game.
And it's for folks like you that think that Illum has anything on a true Three Faction mmorpg pvp game - where races, classes, lore, armor, weapons, architecture, spell animations, etc., are different than each other's realm.
I don't blame you - most folks grew up in the WoW generation (2004+) and never saw Dark Age of Camelot before her graphics and UI dated out...but rethink you opinion friend - this is not some watered down cut and paste faction game - this is truly developed lore and a pvp vision built around it.
/salute
Most gamers have never experienced realm pride - or had any sense of US vs Them vs Them...you have been taught that races and classes are cosmetic, that pvp is a battleground with a Huttball or a flag on the back of a druid. You haven't spent hours in a 300 man raid in a persistant pvp environment, taking castles, defending keeps, taking territory.
This will change that and for the first time, those who post date the WoW genre on their gaming resume' will have something truly tangible to sink their fangs into.
See you on the battlefield.