EQ 1 for the longest time try to get rid of soloing. And failed or peeps quit.
EQ 2 Made some wheel that got more powerful when you got the "perfect" group together. ie no soloing
WOW at high levels forced you into groups.
I can't speak for the rest of you, but I think most games (not power gamers) only can play an hour here or a hour there. Maybe 2 or 3 on a weekend. It take to much time for you to get a group, then get to the spot, then fight, then someone leaves, then your out of time. What fun is that? Instances zones lack the sense of fellow gamer. Ya you got the 4 to 5 others guys, but that's it. You might as well play a local game server with your friend for free instead of paying online.
No crafting, no pvp, no exp for kills, all instances, no house/mounts.... Whats the point? Save yourself time and money and sh*t can the game now, because it wont keep peeps interested!!
Its time for the game makers to wake up and give us what most gamers want!!
A fast paced, large environment, highly involved, great graphically, ton of content, grouped or SOLO, a feeling of accomplishment when played for less than 30 mins, many (more that 2) different ways to play (i.e. fighting or crafting) AND the ability to play at my speed, time and way w/o having to depend on others ALL the time.
I got a couple of great ideas!! You know where to find me!! What do you have to lose??
Originally posted by Blahahahah No crafting, no pvp, no exp for kills, all instances, no house/mounts.... Whats the point? Save yourself time and money and sh*t can the game now, because it wont keep peeps interested!! Its time for the game makers to wake up and give us what most gamers want!! A fast paced, large environment, highly involved, great graphically, ton of content, grouped or SOLO, a feeling of accomplishment when played for less than 30 mins, many (more that 2) different ways to play (i.e. fighting or crafting) AND the ability to play at my speed, time and way w/o having to depend on others ALL the time.
I don't exactly agree with your first statement but do agree with your last.
PvP comes in all forms and not everyone wants to pvp the way another wants to pvp. Not everyone wants to craft. I doesn't matter if you don't get xp per mob if you are presented with an alternate method of advancing. It seems in D&D online's case it is finishing the mission. fine by me... just as long as the fighting is fun.
Your entire second statement (I'll also include the statement regarding when will gamemakers wake up) is dead on.
And when will they wake up? It seems that for the most part, instead of keeping what works and improving what doesn't they just want to be "innovative" for the sake of being innovative.
And I'm sorry.. my opinion but why is it that all the new mmos that are in the works are "doggone ugly"
Everything looks like it was made for kids. And that is not including World of Warcraft... I understand why that looks the way it does and though I hate the Art design it is fine because it takes from the Warcraft III game.
Everything else seems like the characters are made out of clay (like EQ2 ugh) and some of the most unispired and dopey "monsters" that I have ever seen cross a video game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Volkmar even if you asked for a simple "yes/No" answer, i will elaborate a bit more. 1: yes, there is no pvp in DDO. As PvP has never been a great part of the PnP game, it isn't in the DDO experience. 2: yes, there is no crafting in DDO. Same reason.
Your answer to #1 isn't entirely accurate, Volkmar. At least, it has been my experience that PvP had equal value in the PnP game. If the separate and disparate characters of your party were playing their roles properly, there would be many circumstances under which you may very well feel like dealing a little punishment to them.
Having had more than one Kender in my parties whose penchant for "borrowing" items from party members and NPCs alike brought about whole new worlds of anguish, there were many times I gave that player's character a good rap to the head and more than one occasion in which I would have gladly killed him myself. Luckily for him, my Wisdom and understanding of other races kept me from doing it.
I also had a friend who loved playing barbarians and saw every magic item as a flashing sign that said "experience". As his character wasn't all too bright and barbarians got experience for destroying magic items, there were many items destroyed that could have benefitted the party and more than one occasion where his destruction of a magic item caused a fatality or two. Yup.... I smacked one of his characters around pretty good after he nearly took my leg off destroying an orb of red dragon control.
If you have players of good alignment playing alongside a player who has chosen an evil alignment, there's going to be conflict. If there isn't, as the DM, I'd be throwing some in if the players weren't roleplaying their characters properly. Either that, or they might be looking at a forced alignment change at some point in their future... which could have interesting consequences all their own if they worship a deity of specific alignment. Imagine a chaotic evil priest who suddenly found himself/herself neutral or chaotic good, calling on their diety for spells and getting zip.
Finally, there are those situations where your friends are turned against you against their will.
As for #2, I couldn't disagree more. I don't think I had a game where a player wasn't attempting to make new items, infuse them with spells or design their own weapons, armor, etc., myself included.
What about the creation of rods, wands, staves, weapons, spells, potions, etc., as described in D&D 3rd Edition? That's not crafting? Under the open source system, you can create practically any kind of item that you can imagine. Want an intelligent, enhanced weapon? If your skill bonus is high enough, it's possible.
I didn't have a single character that didn't attempt to craft, everything from weapons to spells. As a DM, I created new weapons and armor types and encouraged my players to use their skills to try to figure out how they were created so that they could have those items available to them.
Other than your name, what exactly will make your character unique in the world of DDO Online? From everything they've said so far, it sounds like a giant cookie cutter will be applied for each class - BAM! one ranger, BAM! two rangers, etc.
People have a habit of making crafting sound bad because it separates those who can from those who can't or won't. I guess that's a little too close to reality for some people. But I would personally prefer the ability to make a sword, shield or other item that was completely unlike anyone else's items and that complimented my character.
sorry to disagree, but the ones you mention are exceptions and not the rule.
And i (and they) are aware that surely there have been games with player versus player conflicts in the pen and paper field as Masters can do what they want, it is still not the focus of the game.
Most of D&D game involves a party that, while it might have internal conflicts between them, will not kick each other ass every single time. the conflicts are dramatic points, not the whole game. (or then it is over very soon).
Same for crafting. The basic book has no detailed rules for any sort of crafting outside magic items creation (that cost experience and permit you only to copy existing items without resorting heavily to GM help). The rules don't permit you to customize your item, only make it "masterwork". there is no detailed deep on what is needed to make this or that, techniques of working, materials etc. Same for magic item creation, you spend your XP, your gold and your time and you get this scroll. XP expenditure is a problem in MMorpg as you might well be aware, more so in DDO as XP is given out for quests and quests, presumably, are limited in number even if surely some are repeateable.
I understand what you are saying, but that is not possible in a mmorpg (as you are surely aware) and if you just consider the "crafting" system present in the book and eliminate any possibility to create new items but the one existings.... well, it is pretty shallow. Plus, again, most of the time the focus of the game is on dungeon romping and epic adventures, not on smithing out 1000 swords. I'm sure Turbine will eventually add crafting at some point, but they are taking it reaaaally slow.
About what differentiate you from the others? same thing that differentiate you in the P&P game: You can multiclass for one, you get talents and "mini Talents", you get an alignment, you get a deity (maybe?) and you get equipment, finally you get a personality
If we compare this to WoW (or most others), it has 3 additional points of variety: multiclassing, deity and alignment.
Have a nice day.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Originally posted by Volkmar even if you asked for a simple "yes/No" answer, i will elaborate a bit more. 1: yes, there is no pvp in DDO. As PvP has never been a great part of the PnP game, it isn't in the DDO experience. 2: yes, there is no crafting in DDO. Same reason.
As regards to number 2. What are you talking about? D&D has always had crafting. Since 1st edition rules youve been able to craft magic items. In 3.5 rules you can craft anything from nails and carts to home made traps to +5 flails of giant slaying.
With that said, yes there will be no crafting at release but it WILL be added in some future expansion.
Originally posted by Blahahahah When will the game markers wake up? EQ 1 for the longest time try to get rid of soloing. And failed or peeps quit. EQ 2 Made some wheel that got more powerful when you got the "perfect" group together. ie no soloing WOW at high levels forced you into groups. I can't speak for the rest of you, but I think most games (not power gamers) only can play an hour here or a hour there. Maybe 2 or 3 on a weekend. It take to much time for you to get a group, then get to the spot, then fight, then someone leaves, then your out of time. What fun is that? Instances zones lack the sense of fellow gamer. Ya you got the 4 to 5 others guys, but that's it. You might as well play a local game server with your friend for free instead of paying online. No crafting, no pvp, no exp for kills, all instances, no house/mounts.... Whats the point? Save yourself time and money and sh*t can the game now, because it wont keep peeps interested!! Its time for the game makers to wake up and give us what most gamers want!! A fast paced, large environment, highly involved, great graphically, ton of content, grouped or SOLO, a feeling of accomplishment when played for less than 30 mins, many (more that 2) different ways to play (i.e. fighting or crafting) AND the ability to play at my speed, time and way w/o having to depend on others ALL the time. I got a couple of great ideas!! You know where to find me!! What do you have to lose?? The Phunky Phantom!!
Right on, its obvious that most gamers are like this otherwise WoW wouldn't have over 4 million active accounts right now.
From what I can see, Guildwars offers MORE than DDO, only no subscription fee. Do not get me wrong, I do not like GW (it, like DDO, is basically a 1-6 player game with a 3D chat system) but I do not understand why people are interested in paying to play a game that implements less that a free to play game. Oh well.
Comments
When will the game markers wake up?
EQ 1 for the longest time try to get rid of soloing. And failed or peeps quit.
EQ 2 Made some wheel that got more powerful when you got the "perfect" group together. ie no soloing
WOW at high levels forced you into groups.
I can't speak for the rest of you, but I think most games (not power gamers) only can play an hour here or a hour there. Maybe 2 or 3 on a weekend. It take to much time for you to get a group, then get to the spot, then fight, then someone leaves, then your out of time. What fun is that? Instances zones lack the sense of fellow gamer. Ya you got the 4 to 5 others guys, but that's it. You might as well play a local game server with your friend for free instead of paying online.
No crafting, no pvp, no exp for kills, all instances, no house/mounts.... Whats the point? Save yourself time and money and sh*t can the game now, because it wont keep peeps interested!!
Its time for the game makers to wake up and give us what most gamers want!!
A fast paced, large environment, highly involved, great graphically, ton of content, grouped or SOLO, a feeling of accomplishment when played for less than 30 mins, many (more that 2) different ways to play (i.e. fighting or crafting) AND the ability to play at my speed, time and way w/o having to depend on others ALL the time.
I got a couple of great ideas!! You know where to find me!! What do you have to lose??
The Phunky Phantom!!
I don't exactly agree with your first statement but do agree with your last.
PvP comes in all forms and not everyone wants to pvp the way another wants to pvp. Not everyone wants to craft. I doesn't matter if you don't get xp per mob if you are presented with an alternate method of advancing. It seems in D&D online's case it is finishing the mission. fine by me... just as long as the fighting is fun.
Your entire second statement (I'll also include the statement regarding when will gamemakers wake up) is dead on.
And when will they wake up? It seems that for the most part, instead of keeping what works and improving what doesn't they just want to be "innovative" for the sake of being innovative.
And I'm sorry.. my opinion but why is it that all the new mmos that are in the works are "doggone ugly"
Everything looks like it was made for kids. And that is not including World of Warcraft... I understand why that looks the way it does and though I hate the Art design it is fine because it takes from the Warcraft III game.
Everything else seems like the characters are made out of clay (like EQ2 ugh) and some of the most unispired and dopey "monsters" that I have ever seen cross a video game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Your answer to #1 isn't entirely accurate, Volkmar. At least, it has been my experience that PvP had equal value in the PnP game. If the separate and disparate characters of your party were playing their roles properly, there would be many circumstances under which you may very well feel like dealing a little punishment to them.
Having had more than one Kender in my parties whose penchant for "borrowing" items from party members and NPCs alike brought about whole new worlds of anguish, there were many times I gave that player's character a good rap to the head and more than one occasion in which I would have gladly killed him myself. Luckily for him, my Wisdom and understanding of other races kept me from doing it.
I also had a friend who loved playing barbarians and saw every magic item as a flashing sign that said "experience". As his character wasn't all too bright and barbarians got experience for destroying magic items, there were many items destroyed that could have benefitted the party and more than one occasion where his destruction of a magic item caused a fatality or two. Yup.... I smacked one of his characters around pretty good after he nearly took my leg off destroying an orb of red dragon control.
If you have players of good alignment playing alongside a player who has chosen an evil alignment, there's going to be conflict. If there isn't, as the DM, I'd be throwing some in if the players weren't roleplaying their characters properly. Either that, or they might be looking at a forced alignment change at some point in their future... which could have interesting consequences all their own if they worship a deity of specific alignment. Imagine a chaotic evil priest who suddenly found himself/herself neutral or chaotic good, calling on their diety for spells and getting zip.
Finally, there are those situations where your friends are turned against you against their will.
As for #2, I couldn't disagree more. I don't think I had a game where a player wasn't attempting to make new items, infuse them with spells or design their own weapons, armor, etc., myself included.
What about the creation of rods, wands, staves, weapons, spells, potions, etc., as described in D&D 3rd Edition? That's not crafting? Under the open source system, you can create practically any kind of item that you can imagine. Want an intelligent, enhanced weapon? If your skill bonus is high enough, it's possible.
I didn't have a single character that didn't attempt to craft, everything from weapons to spells. As a DM, I created new weapons and armor types and encouraged my players to use their skills to try to figure out how they were created so that they could have those items available to them.
Other than your name, what exactly will make your character unique in the world of DDO Online? From everything they've said so far, it sounds like a giant cookie cutter will be applied for each class - BAM! one ranger, BAM! two rangers, etc.
People have a habit of making crafting sound bad because it separates those who can from those who can't or won't. I guess that's a little too close to reality for some people. But I would personally prefer the ability to make a sword, shield or other item that was completely unlike anyone else's items and that complimented my character.
sorry to disagree, but the ones you mention are exceptions and not the rule.
And i (and they) are aware that surely there have been games with player versus player conflicts in the pen and paper field as Masters can do what they want, it is still not the focus of the game.
Most of D&D game involves a party that, while it might have internal conflicts between them, will not kick each other ass every single time. the conflicts are dramatic points, not the whole game. (or then it is over very soon).
Same for crafting. The basic book has no detailed rules for any sort of crafting outside magic items creation (that cost experience and permit you only to copy existing items without resorting heavily to GM help). The rules don't permit you to customize your item, only make it "masterwork". there is no detailed deep on what is needed to make this or that, techniques of working, materials etc. Same for magic item creation, you spend your XP, your gold and your time and you get this scroll. XP expenditure is a problem in MMorpg as you might well be aware, more so in DDO as XP is given out for quests and quests, presumably, are limited in number even if surely some are repeateable.
I understand what you are saying, but that is not possible in a mmorpg (as you are surely aware) and if you just consider the "crafting" system present in the book and eliminate any possibility to create new items but the one existings.... well, it is pretty shallow. Plus, again, most of the time the focus of the game is on dungeon romping and epic adventures, not on smithing out 1000 swords. I'm sure Turbine will eventually add crafting at some point, but they are taking it reaaaally slow.
About what differentiate you from the others? same thing that differentiate you in the P&P game: You can multiclass for one, you get talents and "mini Talents", you get an alignment, you get a deity (maybe?) and you get equipment, finally you get a personality
If we compare this to WoW (or most others), it has 3 additional points of variety: multiclassing, deity and alignment.
Have a nice day.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
As regards to number 2. What are you talking about? D&D has always had crafting. Since 1st edition rules youve been able to craft magic items. In 3.5 rules you can craft anything from nails and carts to home made traps to +5 flails of giant slaying.
With that said, yes there will be no crafting at release but it WILL be added in some future expansion.
From what I can see, Guildwars offers MORE than DDO, only no subscription fee. Do not get me wrong, I do not like GW (it, like DDO, is basically a 1-6 player game with a 3D chat system) but I do not understand why people are interested in paying to play a game that implements less that a free to play game. Oh well.
-W.