Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Help me build a gaming pc for around $1,200
InfusedEMP
Member UncommonPosts: 43
I've got $1,200 and I want to build a gaming computer. If that amount isn't enough for the outline I've written below I can easily wait a couple of weeks and add several hundred dollars to the budget.
What I'm looking to use the computer for is primarily mmo's. I want to be able to turn graphics to full on most things I play in the next several years. (I know it wont be possible on everything.) GW2 I want to be able to turn to full graphics for certain. I may also play some more graphicly intensive single player games in the future (Elder Scrolls, etc) and I'd like to have graphics on those things set to max if possible.
If anyone can help me put together a parts list in this budget I'd greatly appreciate it. Here's the basic outline of what I'm shopping for:
-----Power Supply
-----Solid State Drive (240gb minimum)
-----2TB Internal Hard Drive
-----Motherboard (Must have at least 4 RAM slots)
-----CPU (Preferably Quad Core)
-----8GB RAM
-----Graphics Card (Second number must be a 9 or at least an 8, third number preferably a 7+)
-----Fans / Heatsink
-----DVD Reader/Writer
-----Case (With minimum of 2 expansion bays, partial transparency so I can rig LEDs inside)
As for peripherals all I need right now is a surge protector, and that can be tacked on top of the $1,200.
Also while I'm at it, I do plan on buying a monitor in the next few weeks. I don't really understand the differences between monitors. Will I be okay buying one of the $300 27" monitors listed at http://www.squidoo.com/gaming-monitors?
Thanks!
Comments
To answer some of your questions:
650W would be enough for a nice GPU (basically any save the dual-GPU models), any CPU, and probably upwards 10 HD's (SSDs are less than 5W each, standard HD's less than 20W peak and closer to 10W average - with most drives coming in well below these numbers, but going heavy on it makes for good thumbrules when sizing up a power supply).
Most CPU/Heatsinks will come with a small bit of rather generic thermal paste. The difference between the generic stuff, and the premium stuff (something like Arctic Silver), and toothpaste is basically 1-2F total. You don't need the premium stuff unless you looking to do some on-the-edge extreme overclocking where every degree counts.
Most CPU's do not come with a heatsink (OEM or Bulk), or if they do (retail box) come with a rather poor one. I would plan on going ahead and buying a new one. You don't need anything fancy really - a ~$30 decent heat pipe air cooler will perform well on up to moderate overclocks.
I have never had any problems installing Windows 7 based on the amount of RAM installed. RAM is usually dual channel (and depending on the motherboard, occasionally 3 or 4 channel) - you always want your memory to be in multiples of this, meaning that is also how many slots you'd need to keep free for future upgrades, if that's what your considering. RAM is so cheap today, and so underutilized in a typical computer, that there really isn't much reason to not go ahead and fill your sockets.
For factory overclocked video cards - for the overclock, generally, no it isn't worth it. Factory overclocks are typically pretty mild. For the most part that is something you can do yourself with a software utility for free. However, there are a couple of other reasons to consider one. The first is that factory OC'ed cards usually come with better slot coolers, and often beefier power circuitry. They also typically get cherry-picked GPU dies which lend themselves better to OCing, and can often be OCed even further than the factory clock rates. In general, if it's the same price, or you require the specific cooler that comes with the card, then go ahead. But in general I advise against spending extra money on a factory overclock.
Most motherboards have built-in sound cards, and most have digital output (often TOSLINK). If you are an audiophile, and your 1kW sound system is very accurate, you may want to get a discrete card just for better sound quality. Onboard sound is usually pretty decent for video games, but if your trying to listen to uncompressed audio or something high fidelity it's something you can notice a difference with. Good advice for this is try the onboard sound, since it's there anyway, and if you want something better, you can add in a discrete card later without much trouble.
Most quality cases will come with fans pre-installed in the correct locations. For the most part, you just need a modest (80mm or better) inlet in the front, and another in the rear, and that provides adequate cooling for most builds. The more the merrier though - it basically comes up to your tolerance for noise, and maybe some other factors (video card selection has a big impact on this).
Video capture - plan on using an additional device, either your PCI card or something similar. This isn't a very common option.
Motherboards typically have one ethernet port, many have two.
All in all shouldn't be too hard to do on $1,200. I'll leave that part up to people who like shopping.
Thanks for the reply, you knocked out all of my questions pretty quick there. I edited the OP to get rid of the questions and make it more simple to read.
I've been doing some researching and shopping around and so far the closest build I've been able to find for my budget comes from http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/363510/Need-help-building-a-gaming-desktop-.html
That thread is a month old though, some of the links have died, and I know hardware advances fast enough that there are probably better options out there by now. So again, if anyone would be kind enough to help me put together a more up-to-date parts list I would really appreciate it.
My normal take on monitors:
Don't believe any marketing hype or go off spec sheets. If at all possible go out and look at one (even if you just buy the same model online later). Almost all the "specs" are totally made up, because there is no standard for measureing a lot of that. Something as simple as Pixel Response time gets totally trashed into a meaningless number when it can be anywhere form 2ms to 15ms depending on what color you start with and how you measure it (This post goes into excruciating detail about something that seems so simple a concept: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/monitors/display/response.html - although the actual monitors they measure are no longer relevant).
Every eye is different, and what looks good to one person may be totally unacceptable to another. Each monitor type, style, and technology all have different strengths and weaknesses - some have faster response, some have better viewing angles, some have richer colors, some have better contrast - but no single one is superior in every aspect. What looks good to you is what is ultimately the only important factor, and the only way you are going to know that is to go down and look at them. Or at the very least, you can get an impression about what the different technology types bring to the table and what you tend to prefer.
Thanks for the info about monitors. I'll probably go check out what they've got in places like Best Buy here pretty soon and see what I like.
Using that other thread and a bit of shopping I've put together a partial list:
-----Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182263
-----Solid State Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233268
-----2TB Internal Hard Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136891
-----8GB RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231416
-----Fans / Heatsink
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065
-----DVD Reader/Writer
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151244
All I'm missing now (I think) is these four items:
-----Motherboard
-----CPU
-----Graphics Card
-----Case
You can save a few dollars by getting a different optical drive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106289
Shipping costs are real costs, too, and promo codes are nice.
The 750 W version of that power supply is actually cheaper than the 650 W version:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182264
You don't need the extra 100 W, but it won't hurt, and saving $10 is nice.
On your budget, you presumably want a Core i5-3570K. If you don't have unusual motherboard needs and aren't planning on seeing if you can overclock the processor far enough to fry it (as opposed to a more moderate overclock), then you don't need to buy an unduly expensive motherboard. So here, have a combo deal:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1071265
I haven't added up the price tag to see how much space you have for a video card, but you're probably looking at somewhere around Radeon HD 7870 or GeForce GTX 660 territory. For the former, this is a nice deal:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161404
For the latter, the best route is to grab one in a combo deal with the power supply:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1076709
For a case, this is on shell shocker special right now:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129088
$75 before a $30 rebate. If you miss the sale, it's far less tempting at $100 or whatever.
If you miss that, then I'd try this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139011
Or better yet, in a combo deal with different memory, instead of the memory that you linked:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1075621
Same specs and a good brand, so it's equivalent memory.
Thanks a lot for the info and links, that was a big help!
Here's what I've got so far. After doing more research or hearing any suggestions I may change some things.
-----Motherboard / CPU - $329.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1071265
-----Graphics Card - $219.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161404
-----Case - $74.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129088
-----750W Power Supply - $99.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182264
-----240GB Solid State Drive - $174.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233268
-----2TB Internal Hard Drive - $109.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136891
-----8GB RAM - $39.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231416
-----Heatsink - $29.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065
-----DVD Reader/Writer - $17.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106289
Before tax and shipping that's coming out to $1,097.90
You should be aware that the case is a very short term sale. As in, hours, not days. So if that's the case you want, you need to grab it before the sale ends.
You'll also need an OS license.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116986
Ouch, yeah that wont do then, I need to get the money into the bank so I can spend it online and that won't be happening within a few hours. I'll have to keep searching for a case.
I've got a windows xp oem disc and a windows 7 upgrade disc so I'm good to go on the OS.
I've been doing some research and it turns out that graphics card is extremely large, 11.69" long. I've discovered that a lot of cases can't hold a card that big. I'm considering this case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021
From the dimensions it looks like it should hold the card but I have no way of really knowing. I've read that some people have had to bend or cut drive bays out of the way to accomidate the card. It's a long shot to ask, but does anyone happen to know if that card will fit in this case without the bays getting in the way?
I'm also going to buy a bay i/o panel. I can't seem to find any decent ones on newegg, but I found this one that has everything I want on it on another website:
https://www.frozencpu.com/products/14351/bus-293/Akasa_InterConnect_Pro_USB_30_Panel_w_Card_Reader_and_eSATA_-_Version_2_AK-HC-05BKV2.html?tl=g34
I don't know that I trust that brand, but it's a nice looking panel, much nicer looking than anything newegg has to offer. Does anyone know where I could find a similar bay i/o panel of a trustworthy brand? Or is that brand trustworthy?
All of the monitors you listed in the OP look fine.
Core-i5 3570k is the best value for power users.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116504
I lean towards the nVidia 6-series cards - 660 or 670 is you have room left in the budget.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130810
Do not get that WD Green drive. You should get a 1 or 2 TB WD Black, especially if you ever decide that you want to add a second one and build an array. Or...you can skip the SSD and seperate drive altogether and get...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136555
The Antec Nine-Hundred is a good solid gaming case.
Memory. Cas latency can be a confusing topic for people. Just know that lower is better and faster memory with higher latency is a waste of time.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226199
System board vendor is a matter of preference. Just make sure you get a Z77 chipset and the rest of the features that you want. Don't pay more for a board just because it looks cool or because it says "For Gamers" or some BS. The ASROCK Z77 Pro 4 has a decent price and the features that you need.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157296
Get a Blu-ray player. Blu-ray movies on one of those 27" monitors you are looking at = phenomenal.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136246
Power Supply...not sure why everyone goes overkill on wattage. You could technically run the above rig on a 450 watt high efficiency psu with no issues.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139027
1) You mention the GeForce GTX 660 and GTX 670, and then link a card that is neither. The GTX 660 and 670 are decent values for the money, but the GTX 660 Ti is not. A Radeon HD 7950 is better for about the same price. Alternatively, a Radeon HD 7970 and GeForce GTX 660 are a lot cheaper than a GTX 660 Ti, but not much slower.
2) The idea of getting an SSD is that you put everything where speed particularly matters on the SSD. You only put stuff on the hard drive where it doesn't matter that the hard drive is slow. So the extra speed of a WD Caviar Black doesn't help you much.
And no, no, no. Don't get a Velociraptor. That would constitute paying more than an SSD would cost, for mere hard drive performance. Sure, it's very fast for a hard drive. But if you're looking to buy a car, then buying a tricycle instead isn't going to cut it, even if it's very fast for a tricycle. And especially if it's more expensive than the car would have been.
3) Memory latencies are in number of clock cycles. Thus, 800 MHz with CAS 4 is the same latency as 1600 MHz with CAS 8 or 2400 MHz with CAS 12. Regardless, CAS latency is only a small fraction of total memory access latency. The performance difference beween the memory you link and a $40 kit that is 1600 MHz, CAS 9 would basically amount to a rounding error.
4) AsRock's naming scheme is that "Pro" means low end and "Extreme" means mid-range to upper mid-range. If you want a low end motherboard, then go ahead. But you'd be better served by getting a motherboard a notch up in a combo deal with the processor, where the combo discount covers the difference in price so that you end up getting a better motherboard for the same price.
5) Blu-Ray players are a pure waste of money for the overwhelming majority of computers. If you're going to watch Blu-Ray movies on your computer (which is not the same as watching Blu-Ray movies on some other device, DVD movies on your computer, NetFlix on your computer, YouTube on your computer, or various other combinations), then sure, get a Blu-Ray player. Otherwise, it's just paying $50 too much for a device that will be identical for your use to a simple $17 DVD burner.
6) Corsair's CX V2 line is fine for a severe budget system. It's the sort of power supply you might get on a $500 budget. But it's not appropriate for a $1200 budget. While the original poster surely doesn't need a 750 W power supply, the reason I linked that one is that, at the time, I didn't see any good deals on one of somewhat lower wattage. Today, you could grab this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182262
Aww that's horrible. Well, I can at least go ahead and order everything else and keep shopping for a video card, or shell out the extra cash to get that one. I didn't think about the sale going off that quick, I was taking my time researching stuff.
Here you go, if you haven't ordered anything yet you might take a look at this:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/System-Builder-Marathon-August-2012-GTX-670-Kepler,3280.html
They've got 3 systems put together, a low priced one around 500$, a mid priced one at about 1000$ and a high end one for about 2000$. The 1000$ one is quite nice really and if you're wanting to spend 1200$ it'd still leave you within budget to get a UPS or nice surge protector.
So you can see why I hate it when someone posts a link to "here's what some site came up with a few months ago". You can see how much prices change in a few days; over the course of a few months, it's much, much worse. Even if a build was a good deal when the site posted it (which often isn't the case), it's vanishingly unlikely that it will still be so a few months later.
If you'd like to bring the price back down:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226237
Basically the same SSD as you linked above, but from Mushkin rather than Corsair. It's the same SSD controller and firmware, and likely but not necessarily the same NAND flash.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151256
Different DVD burner that happens to have free shipping today.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131466
Different Radeon HD 7870 that happens to be on sale today. Personally, I'd undo the factory overclock, as I don't trust PowerColor to make a premium card.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1080932
Combo deal with the same power supply and a different case. The case isn't as nice as the one before, but it's still decent and it sure is cheaper.
It's the same bin of the same GPU chip. The video memory is likely identical as well; at the very least, it's the same capacity at the same speed. The PCB, heatsink, fan, VRMs, and various other components are likely to be different, which can affect power consumption, noise, and reliability, but not performance.
Based on previous reputation, I'd regard HIS as being a little more likely to produce a high quality card than PowerColor. But only a little, and I wouldn't pay an extra $30 for the HIS card, as it's likely that you'd never notice the difference. It's really just a case of, given a bunch of roughly equivalent products, you buy the one that happens to be on sale today.
When a card is relatively cheaper for a while, lots of people buy it, and then it gets lots of reviews because of that. Other than EVGA fanboys, most people prefer to buy a relatively cheaper SKU of a card, unless they're paying a little more for what is clearly a premium SKU.
I've got my shopping cart all filled out. My only remaining question is does brand matter with solid state drives? I don't recognize that brand you linked, while I know corsair is a trusted brand. I know brand matters with a regular hard drive, given that it's got moving parts and they tend to screw up, but considering that SSD's don't have moving parts is brand an issue? Or is it the same story as the graphics card, it's basically just a currently cheaper version of the same thing?
I'm reading a lot of bad reviews of that ssd - but, I haven't read any reviews for the corsair so I can't say it doesn't have just as many bad reviews.
The critical things for an SSD are the controller and the firmware. Those plus a small dependence on the NAND flash used determine the performance. They also have a huge impact on reliability, though other components can also affect reliability.
Neither Corsair nor Mushkin produces the important components of the SSD themselves. They buy the controller, the DRAM cache (if any), the NAND flash, and so forth, and just assemble the parts. The Corsair Force Series 3 and Mushkin Chronos Deluxe use exactly the same SSD controller (SandForce second generation) that they both buy from SandForce/LSI. They both use exactly the same firmware provided by SandForce/LSI. They likely buy their NAND flash from the same sources; at the very least, they have the same few options to choose from (IMFT, Samsung, Hynix, Toshiba, and I'm not sure if there are any others off hand).
They might buy PCBs, casings, SATA connectors, screws, or other components from the same sources, too; I'm not sure which parts, if any, they produce themselves.
The warranty service is likely to be different. Not necessarily better or worse for either company, but just different. A lot of tech companies spend quite a bit on marketing. Mushkin seems to have a business model of, skip the marketing, pass on the savings to the customer, and hope that tech-savvy customers can figure it out without needing ads to tell them what to buy.
So is the Corsair SSD than the Mushkin? It's plausible that one could be defective and the other not, but even if one is, I don't think it's vastly more likely to be either particular brand.
Also, on New Egg reviews, you should remember that people who get a defective product are far more motivated to write a review than people who have the product work flawlessly. If 1% of a product is dead on arrival, then the 1% who get those defective units might account for 10% of the reviews.
Also, quite a few of the people who claim the product was dead on arrival had a perfectly functioning product, but something else was defective (e.g., for an SSD, a SATA cable or a SATA port on the motherboard), and they weren't able to isolate it. Getting an SSD to work with an older OS (e.g., Windows XP or Vista) is also a lot more delicate than with Windows 7.
I got everything ordered. Thank you for all the advice, I really appreciate it.
The one thing I forgot to ask about is a surge protector / ups. I'm going to need one as we get a lot of power fluctuations in my area. I really don't know much about them except that they can only absorb so much high voltage before they don't do you any good anymore. Considering my power goes out several times a year due to thunderstorms, what would be a good suggestion?
What I plan to have plugged into it:
Computer, Monitor, HDTV, External HDD's, Projector, and 'possibly' my surround sound system.
If you have frequent power events, then a UPS would be really nice to have. This is the one that I use:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102070
I've had it for over three years, and probably lost power a few dozen times in that period (usually for only a few seconds). It has kicked in and worked flawlessly every single time. When the power is working fine, the UPS will just pass it through, so it doesn't waste much power normally. But it will kick in when the power goes out or something goes awry with voltages. In case of a brownout (roughly 90-110 V), it can convert the voltage to 120 V without touching the battery.
Cyber Power Systems has more recently come out with a higher end model that will output a real sinusoidal wave, which is what the computer's power supply actually wants. Most UPSes will give a "simulated" sine wave, which really means a step function. Some computer power supplies will shut down at far below their nominal wattage if they don't like the incoming waveform. Even so, not all step functions are equivalent; a square wave is much worse than if you have a few internal steps. It's more expensive, though:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102133
If you drain the battery and recharge it regularly, the battery will wear out and you won't get much life from it after a while. But that's not really what a UPS is for. The idea is that if you lose power, you notice that the lights went out and the UPS is noisy, and then shut down the computer properly. I typically wait several seconds before doing anything, as sometimes the power comes right back. If it doesn't and it takes you several minutes to shut down your computer, that won't drain the battery very far, so it's not a big deal.
For what it's worth, if you need to replace the batteries, you can buy new batteries, but they're about $40 the last time I checked. An analogous product from a different brand (I don't remember which; it was three years ago) was $70 to replace the battery.
In case you're wondering, Cyber Power Systems has nothing to do with the PC assembler Cyber Power PC, at least as far as I can tell. The former is in Minnesota and deals with power equipment such as UPSes and surge protectors, while the latter is in California and assembles computers. Cyber Power PC doesn't even offer Cyber Power Systems equipment, probably for fear that customers would think it was some cheap junk house brand product.