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CoS kickstarter???? I think this is out of place

MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,787
in Citadel of Sorcery

So I have seen a few threads about this now, and I have asked the question, that seems to be overlooked or not interesting enough.

 

The game started development in 2005, that is 7+ years ago.

 

I think "kickstart" implies at the begining.  The idea being that a team needs initial funding and can use a kickstart. 

 

This honestly seems like an abuse of the system.  It is a way to generate money, without any real ties to anything or anyone. 

 

I will be honest, I was interested in this game in 2009 (I think, it was years ago who the hell remembers that kind of stuff) and I wish them all the best with thier game.  I just think this is the wrong way to use kickstrater.  If this works for them I can see people putting up a website and throwing together some info over 12 months and then going to kick starter for a quick vaporware grab.

 

I know slippery slope logic is slippery at best, but I don't like this play at all and feel it will lead to abuse in the system.  Devs who know their project is going to fail and never make it out could just go to kickstarter and recoup some of their losses off of the back of the gaming community.

 

I am NOT saying this is what is happening here, so please do not think that is what I am saying. 

 

This just does not sit well with me.  Their game has been in development for far to long at this point.  They should be taking pre-orders, not asking for money via kickstarter. 

“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

--John Ruskin







Comments

  • DakirnDakirn Member UncommonPosts: 372

    I'm not sure if you watch the other games on Kickstarter, but pretty much every video game is either non-existant or close to release.  They're not doing anything different than almost every other game that posts there.

     

    For those of us who have been watching the game and their forums since they announced it years ago they've been open and honest about sharing screenshots and development updates.  They have developer logs going back years stating their progress on their sites that have been posted for years.

     

    It's not a quick moneygrab.  I also believe Kickstarter researches these projects before they approve them and weed out the suspicious ones.  It would be majorly determental to KS to ever have a big project do what you describe and I'd bet they do whatever they can do stop them from even starting.

  • JatarJatar Member UncommonPosts: 348

    Hey, as a member of the MMO Magic, Inc. team, for all of those years you mentioned, I thought I would chime in.  Certainly Kickstarter implies something starting.  In our case this is the start of ANY funding.  Meaning, up until now, not one cent of funding from any outside group has been put into this project.  No investors, no banks, no publishers.

    We spent most of the years up to now making an engine, tools and design, and building enough to make sure it all works.  Now we are entering the real game building moment, the start of something new. 

    So in our case, Kickstarter means the funding that will help the game get to Alpha.   This is our moment to 'kickstart' the project to a fully playble version, taking the design, engine and tools we have, and allowing us to build the content needed to get to Alpha.

    Kickstarter was fully aware of all these facts when they launched our project, and agree that this is a project worth running.

  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,787
    Originally posted by Jatar

    Hey, as a member of the MMO Magic, Inc. team, for all of those years you mentioned, I thought I would chime in.  Certainly Kickstarter implies something starting.  In our case this is the start of ANY funding.  Meaning, up until now, not one cent of funding from any outside group has been put into this project.  No investors, no banks, no publishers.

    We spent most of the years up to now making an engine, tools and design, and building enough to make sure it all works.  Now we are entering the real game building moment, the start of something new. 

    So in our case, Kickstarter means the funding that will help the game get to Alpha.   This is our moment to 'kickstart' the project to a fully playble version, taking the design, engine and tools we have, and allowing us to build the content needed to get to Alpha.

    Kickstarter was fully aware of all these facts when they launched our project, and agree that this is a project worth running.

    I am not accusing you or your team of any foul play.

     

    Years ago I got into a long discussion with you (I think), about the game here on this forum (I think).  I really do hope the game comes out with everything that is being touted. 

     

    Lord help you if it doesn't.

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,787
    Originally posted by Dakirn

    I'm not sure if you watch the other games on Kickstarter, but pretty much every video game is either non-existant or close to release.  They're not doing anything different than almost every other game that posts there.

     

    For those of us who have been watching the game and their forums since they announced it years ago they've been open and honest about sharing screenshots and development updates.  They have developer logs going back years stating their progress on their sites that have been posted for years.

     

    It's not a quick moneygrab.  I also believe Kickstarter researches these projects before they approve them and weed out the suspicious ones.  It would be majorly determental to KS to ever have a big project do what you describe and I'd bet they do whatever they can do stop them from even starting.

    Kickstarter has been around for 3 years and has produced very few video game finished products.  It is way to early to tell how strong their system is when it comes to the video game industry.

     

    I would venture to bet at least one person will take money from them and either not produce a game or produce one that is so utterly broken that people feel like there robbed, even if they were not. 

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • MyGoodFellowMyGoodFellow Member Posts: 7
    Many times this happens because the developers doing the Kickstarter funding project don't grasp the real amount of money needed to fund the project and so they underestimate the funding needed.
  • SirBalinSirBalin Member UncommonPosts: 1,300
    Originally posted by MMOman101

    So I have seen a few threads about this now, and I have asked the question, that seems to be overlooked or not interesting enough.

     

    The game started development in 2005, that is 7+ years ago.

     

    I think "kickstart" implies at the begining.  The idea being that a team needs initial funding and can use a kickstart. 

     

    This honestly seems like an abuse of the system.  It is a way to generate money, without any real ties to anything or anyone. 

     

    I will be honest, I was interested in this game in 2009 (I think, it was years ago who the hell remembers that kind of stuff) and I wish them all the best with thier game.  I just think this is the wrong way to use kickstrater.  If this works for them I can see people putting up a website and throwing together some info over 12 months and then going to kick starter for a quick vaporware grab.

     

    I know slippery slope logic is slippery at best, but I don't like this play at all and feel it will lead to abuse in the system.  Devs who know their project is going to fail and never make it out could just go to kickstarter and recoup some of their losses off of the back of the gaming community.

     

    I am NOT saying this is what is happening here, so please do not think that is what I am saying. 

     

    This just does not sit well with me.  Their game has been in development for far to long at this point.  They should be taking pre-orders, not asking for money via kickstarter. 

    I don't get this at all...they are much further along...they tried to do it without funding, now realize they need it...I see nothing wrong, they aren't hiding anything.

    Incognito
    www.incognito-gaming.us
    "You're either with us or against us"

  • IsaneIsane Member UncommonPosts: 2,630
    Originally posted by MMOman101

    So I have seen a few threads about this now, and I have asked the question, that seems to be overlooked or not interesting enough.

    This just does not sit well with me.  Their game has been in development for far to long at this point.  They should be taking pre-orders, not asking for money via kickstarter. 

    I think you have a misplaced post here as , Kickstarter has a good reputation and they seem to disagree with you.

    The Game tools have been in development , you seem i'll informed and a little bitter. Some of us are happy for this game to potentially get through Alpha. You should take your concerns up with Kickstarter. I would look up your last post but I remember you being as i'll informed then as you appear now.

    ________________________________________________________
    Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel 

  • moguy2moguy2 Member Posts: 337
    I have 59.99 burning a whole in my pocket AGAIN!! Help me waste it some where please. Or direct me in the right direction.
  • JatarJatar Member UncommonPosts: 348
    Originally posted by moguy2
    I have 59.99 burning a whole in my pocket AGAIN!! Help me waste it some where please. Or direct me in the right direction.

    Sure, Moguy2, since you asked...

     

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mmomagic/citadel-of-sorcery-mmorpg

     

    At least enjoy the video!  Fun stuff.

  • moguy2moguy2 Member Posts: 337
    Originally posted by Jatar
    Originally posted by moguy2
    I have 59.99 burning a whole in my pocket AGAIN!! Help me waste it some where please. Or direct me in the right direction.

    Sure, Moguy2, since you asked...

     

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mmomagic/citadel-of-sorcery-mmorpg

     

    At least enjoy the video!  Fun stuff.

    You seem decent man. Ill check it out.

  • Kaelano1Kaelano1 Member Posts: 375
    The game's not yet approved by a publisher. They have a good idea and already have something to "show" to investors. I think kickstarter is relevant to this. Unfortunately, with customer sentiment lately, it's probably a "necessary evil", kinda like hosting.
  • AmanaAmana Moderator UncommonPosts: 3,912
    Please don't create multiple threads for topics you could easily discuss in the original one.

    To give feedback on moderation, contact mikeb@mmorpg.com

This discussion has been closed.