I feel like with most recent MMOs, they were so flawed right at the foundation, in such a way that no matter what they add, it didn't matter. GW2 seems to have a much better foundation for an MMO, but it does seem like they need to build on it more. I'm just afraid I'm not patient enough to wait around for them to do that. I'll probably move on to other games and forget all about it, by the time it reaches whatever potential it might have.
Will I come back, because it's B2P? Maybe.. but probably not. There will be too many new games that I'll be into, to pick up some old MMO I'd all but forgotten about.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I raided a lot in WoW, for 8 years, and I still love GW2. But then, I also loved AC1, UO, etc... all games without a gear grind. I'm not stuck into one type of MMORPG.
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Can we all agree that we cannot call GW2 a MMORPG. GW2 has no roles.
I think you got that wrong... "Role" in Role Playing Game means playing the role of a character, you know, a bit like an actor. The term goes back to pen and paper RPGs.
It has nothing to do with being a tank, a healer, a DPS, or whatever else. GW2 is no less a MMORPG than UO or EQ or whatever other game of that style.
wut.
role playing, ok... fabricating background story and entertaining like-minded players, fine.
role in a group? no. as a combat unit, some suppress, some supply, some repair and maintain, some rock worlds.
you're intentionally convoluting.
He is correct. The acronym MMORPG is Massively Multiplayer ROLE-PLAYING game. RP as in, you are playing an imaginary character in a game. It has nothing to do with 'combat roles'. If the R is just "Role" then adding the "P" for playing makes no sense. It's Role-Playing.
Exactly, thanks Roxtarr.
For instance, you can play a cowadly warrior or a brave mage. That's role playing. The class or combat role has nothing to do with the term "MMORPG" or "RPG". To apply this to GW2, for instance if you're human, you role play a who is either a nobleman, common people or a poor, and who becomes a hero of Tyria. The class is totally irrelevant, as his the character specialization.
and that's ok. i respect people doing this, but they WON'T GROUP WITH ME and WON'T SEE CONTENT WITH ME in REAL MULTI-PLAYER GAMES.
edit: no one in their right mind has time for someone who "roleplays" a "person incapable of fulfilling their position in a system". you're arguing apples and oranges, or if you think they're apples and apples, god help the people who lose patience.
I wish people would stop trying to make their opinions fact. Guess what no game is gonna give every player everything they want. So in essence all games are missing something? No, that is not the case. The truth is you are missing something and you are hoping a game will provide that for you.
And also not every player needs a carrot to play. I pvp for the fun of it because I ENJOY IT. I do not need the game to give me something to enjoy it. And last time I checked Anet stated over and over and over and over and over and yet over again that there was no difference in gear besides visuals. How stupid are you to buy this game get to 80 and then say, I can't play this game there is no reason to play just to get different looking gear. I mean really how can so many people complain about the parts of the game that were stated and re-stated so many times leading up to launch is really mind blowing. Reading comprehension for the win. If you need a gear treadmill there a ton and i mean a ton of those games already made, why on earth would you even buy a play this game with so many carrot on a stick games out there.
But then again you just can't fix stupid, no matter how hard you try.
Some people just can't accept that every single MMORPG is, at the end, just a video game, and nothing they do it in has any real signification except having fun. All those purples you get in WoW clones and you grind for each no tier are no more real than the cosmetic GW2 armor.
At the end, all what tiered gear achieves is to increase the imbalance between players, in PvE, but also in PvP. When you're a fresh max level in those tiered gear grind based WoW clones, you're nothing more than canon fodder for those who played for a while, and you have to grind for weeks, or even months depending on your play time, in order to become competitive. Who in his own mind can think such a system is good, that it's fun?
Oh, I see who can think it's fun, there are at least two categories that come to my mind:
1) The hardcore gamers, the basement dwellers. Of course, when you can "afford" playing 12+ hours a day, you don't have a problem with such grinds, you'll be full PvP geared before normal people (aka the majority) got their first couple of pieces.
2) The skilless players. Those who suck at PvP. For them, how nice it is to have 5000+ resilience and roflstompnoobs with 0 resilience, it gives them some "victories" at least.
Not only GW2 supressed that gear grind, but it also removed the huge imbalance between low and high level players in PvP, where a level 20 would just one hit a level 10. Before the nitpickers arrive, I'm aware there's still an advantage for being a fully geared level 80 against a level 10 noob in WvsW, but it's nowhere as bad as in any other tier gear grind theme park game.
I think back to all the purples i worked so hard for and how they were instantly replaced by the greens of the next xpacs in WoW omg, makes me mad to this day.
instantly? you didn't clear MC til a week before BC? it did suck, but you're really arguing that you showed up a little late.
And after the nerfs to make the content easier.
Can we all agree that we cannot call GW2 a MMORPG. GW2 has no roles.
Erm... you may eb a bit confused what the 'role' in role playing is...
There seems to be some rediculous misconception that once you get to level 80 you magically appear in the best gear available, you dont, you still have to do a little bit of work for it - either by farming a crapload of karma, or by grinding dungeons for a week or so. It took me far less time to get the best available dungeon gear in WoW than it did in GW2.
The difference is that GW2 doesnt keep pushing out the goal posts, so once you have a set, the only reason to grind is to get different appearances.
I would say that the amount of gear progression in GW2 is pretty similar to most MMOs at launch, with the exception of not having any raid gear at a higher tier.
As for content missing, I have had something like 250 hours on my Mesmer, and still haven't done 3/4 of the dungeons (only farmed TA, Arah and AC so far for items I want) and still only at 65% world completion. Also only killed 2 of the world dragon spawns and havent held the main castle in WvW (although I want to get more into WvW now that I have played through PvE). I could probably have gotten more 'achieved' if I was running from point of interest to point of interest without actually paying attention to the world, or without getting absolutely lost in the massive events in Orr.This is way more content than I got from pretty much any game I can recall. The Witcher, Dragon's Dogma and Skyrim never gave me this much playtime and yet I still consider them worthwhile purchases.
Starting to level up a Ranger with my friends who picked the game up late, and I am coming across dozens of DEs that I had never seen while exploring on my main character.
As for missing DEs, most maps once you get past 20 have an overarching DE storyline, if you look in the top right of your screen it will tell you where the main action is happening. Its also by far the best and most interesting way to level, jumping from heart to heart is a bore that reminds me of WoW.
As for the game being easy, leveling is easy, doing DEs in Orr and explorable dungeons are not. In fact taking bad players into explorable mode dungeons is a complete nightmare. Which has certainly encouraged good communication and making friends with other good players so we can do dungeon runs.
I raided a lot in WoW, for 8 years, and I still love GW2. But then, I also loved AC1, UO, etc... all games without a gear grind. I'm not stuck into one type of MMORPG.
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Can we all agree that we cannot call GW2 a MMORPG. GW2 has no roles.
I think you got that wrong... "Role" in Role Playing Game means playing the role of a character, you know, a bit like an actor. The term goes back to pen and paper RPGs.
It has nothing to do with being a tank, a healer, a DPS, or whatever else. GW2 is no less a MMORPG than UO or EQ or whatever other game of that style.
In movies people play very specific roles. The villian, hero, wife, brother, biker, cashier etc. All have specific requirements they need to perform in those roles. Don't remember when I ever saw a movie where one actor played every role.
In PnP RPGs you had Paladins (warriors with healing abilities like a cleric), Cleric (main healer of the group), Thief (dps and deal with traps) etc. Every class had a specific role to perform.
GW2...no specific roles. All are dps/support. No one has a role to perform. Kinda like the old west, you either had a gun to shoot stuff with, or a bigger gun to shoot stuff with.
By your logic:
So what is the difference between a warrior tank and a paladin tank? Same role, it is the same.
What is the difference between a rogue, a warlock or a mage? Same role it is the same class.
Classes are defined by the way they do things not the things they do, otherwise the classes would be DPS, tank, healer in trinity games.
In GW2 a Warrior role is to be a warrior, and a warrior is a class that use martial weapons to fight, possess great strenght that allows them to perform physical feats like stomp and possess martial training in the form of stances as well basic leadership/battle tatics in the fom of standards and shouts.
A Guardian job is to be a Guardian, and a guardian is a heavy armor/weapon fighter that resort to spiritual magic to complement its physical skills.
[mod edit]
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Some people just can't accept that every single MMORPG is, at the end, just a video game, and nothing they do it in has any real signification except having fun. All those purples you get in WoW clones and you grind for each no tier are no more real than the cosmetic GW2 armor.
At the end, all what tiered gear achieves is to increase the imbalance between players, in PvE, but also in PvP. When you're a fresh max level in those tiered gear grind based WoW clones, you're nothing more than canon fodder for those who played for a while, and you have to grind for weeks, or even months depending on your play time, in order to become competitive. Who in his own mind can think such a system is good, that it's fun?
Oh, I see who can think it's fun, there are at least two categories that come to my mind:
1) The hardcore gamers, the basement dwellers. Of course, when you can "afford" playing 12+ hours a day, you don't have a problem with such grinds, you'll be full PvP geared before normal people (aka the majority) got their first couple of pieces.
2) The skilless players. Those who suck at PvP. For them, how nice it is to have 5000+ resilience and roflstomp noobs with 0 resilience, it gives them some "victories" at least.
Not only GW2 supressed that gear grind, but it also removed the huge imbalance between low and high level players in PvP, where a level 20 would just one hit a level 10. Before the nitpickers arrive, I'm aware there's still an advantage for being a fully geared level 80 against a level 10 noob in WvsW, but it's nowhere as bad as in any other tier gear grind theme park game.
I think back to all the purples i worked so hard for and how they were instantly replaced by the greens of the next xpacs in WoW omg, makes me mad to this day.
instantly? you didn't clear MC til a week before BC? it did suck, but you're really arguing that you showed up a little late.
Yeah instantly in that you didn't have to run dungeons for greens....as in you got them from the mobs in the standard open world zones. That kind of instantly. Late or not it's still a bad design no matter how you spin it.
Can we all agree that we cannot call GW2 a MMORPG. GW2 has no roles.
Absolutely not,my thief definitely has different abilities then any other class, and is starkly different then my engineer. Their roles are different from one another both in abilities, in personal story. their roles in the world are different.
no matter what you bring to the table, true or false, if you bash GW2, you HAVE to be playing it wrong....you just aren't using your skills right...
My rogue...or whatever it's called has daggers and guns....it can summon a different monster than my warrior who can wield maces and guns and swords....what other game lets you do that???
they just removed things from the game that were a hinderance to my zerg mentality...no more slow and steady....now it's FAST AND DIE!!!!!
well i love GW2 and i consider my self as a fan of it, but the devs make a mistake and said "when its ready", when they knew that they will launch a game which wont be ready, even in the beta weekends they were testings the system which will allow them to fix the game.
i would accept this, only in the case they have made a proper beta where they would fix bugs like broken Events which are the core of the PvE (for example.. ) ...
Comments
I feel like with most recent MMOs, they were so flawed right at the foundation, in such a way that no matter what they add, it didn't matter. GW2 seems to have a much better foundation for an MMO, but it does seem like they need to build on it more. I'm just afraid I'm not patient enough to wait around for them to do that. I'll probably move on to other games and forget all about it, by the time it reaches whatever potential it might have.
Will I come back, because it's B2P? Maybe.. but probably not. There will be too many new games that I'll be into, to pick up some old MMO I'd all but forgotten about.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
and that's ok. i respect people doing this, but they WON'T GROUP WITH ME and WON'T SEE CONTENT WITH ME in REAL MULTI-PLAYER GAMES.
edit: no one in their right mind has time for someone who "roleplays" a "person incapable of fulfilling their position in a system". you're arguing apples and oranges, or if you think they're apples and apples, god help the people who lose patience.
I wish people would stop trying to make their opinions fact. Guess what no game is gonna give every player everything they want. So in essence all games are missing something? No, that is not the case. The truth is you are missing something and you are hoping a game will provide that for you.
And also not every player needs a carrot to play. I pvp for the fun of it because I ENJOY IT. I do not need the game to give me something to enjoy it. And last time I checked Anet stated over and over and over and over and over and yet over again that there was no difference in gear besides visuals. How stupid are you to buy this game get to 80 and then say, I can't play this game there is no reason to play just to get different looking gear. I mean really how can so many people complain about the parts of the game that were stated and re-stated so many times leading up to launch is really mind blowing. Reading comprehension for the win. If you need a gear treadmill there a ton and i mean a ton of those games already made, why on earth would you even buy a play this game with so many carrot on a stick games out there.
But then again you just can't fix stupid, no matter how hard you try.
Erm... you may eb a bit confused what the 'role' in role playing is...
There seems to be some rediculous misconception that once you get to level 80 you magically appear in the best gear available, you dont, you still have to do a little bit of work for it - either by farming a crapload of karma, or by grinding dungeons for a week or so. It took me far less time to get the best available dungeon gear in WoW than it did in GW2.
The difference is that GW2 doesnt keep pushing out the goal posts, so once you have a set, the only reason to grind is to get different appearances.
I would say that the amount of gear progression in GW2 is pretty similar to most MMOs at launch, with the exception of not having any raid gear at a higher tier.
As for content missing, I have had something like 250 hours on my Mesmer, and still haven't done 3/4 of the dungeons (only farmed TA, Arah and AC so far for items I want) and still only at 65% world completion. Also only killed 2 of the world dragon spawns and havent held the main castle in WvW (although I want to get more into WvW now that I have played through PvE). I could probably have gotten more 'achieved' if I was running from point of interest to point of interest without actually paying attention to the world, or without getting absolutely lost in the massive events in Orr.This is way more content than I got from pretty much any game I can recall. The Witcher, Dragon's Dogma and Skyrim never gave me this much playtime and yet I still consider them worthwhile purchases.
Starting to level up a Ranger with my friends who picked the game up late, and I am coming across dozens of DEs that I had never seen while exploring on my main character.
As for missing DEs, most maps once you get past 20 have an overarching DE storyline, if you look in the top right of your screen it will tell you where the main action is happening. Its also by far the best and most interesting way to level, jumping from heart to heart is a bore that reminds me of WoW.
As for the game being easy, leveling is easy, doing DEs in Orr and explorable dungeons are not. In fact taking bad players into explorable mode dungeons is a complete nightmare. Which has certainly encouraged good communication and making friends with other good players so we can do dungeon runs.
By your logic:
So what is the difference between a warrior tank and a paladin tank? Same role, it is the same.
What is the difference between a rogue, a warlock or a mage? Same role it is the same class.
Classes are defined by the way they do things not the things they do, otherwise the classes would be DPS, tank, healer in trinity games.
In GW2 a Warrior role is to be a warrior, and a warrior is a class that use martial weapons to fight, possess great strenght that allows them to perform physical feats like stomp and possess martial training in the form of stances as well basic leadership/battle tatics in the fom of standards and shouts.
A Guardian job is to be a Guardian, and a guardian is a heavy armor/weapon fighter that resort to spiritual magic to complement its physical skills.
[mod edit]
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Yeah instantly in that you didn't have to run dungeons for greens....as in you got them from the mobs in the standard open world zones. That kind of instantly. Late or not it's still a bad design no matter how you spin it.
Absolutely not,my thief definitely has different abilities then any other class, and is starkly different then my engineer. Their roles are different from one another both in abilities, in personal story. their roles in the world are different.
no matter what you bring to the table, true or false, if you bash GW2, you HAVE to be playing it wrong....you just aren't using your skills right...
My rogue...or whatever it's called has daggers and guns....it can summon a different monster than my warrior who can wield maces and guns and swords....what other game lets you do that???
they just removed things from the game that were a hinderance to my zerg mentality...no more slow and steady....now it's FAST AND DIE!!!!!
/sarcasm
well i love GW2 and i consider my self as a fan of it, but the devs make a mistake and said "when its ready", when they knew that they will launch a game which wont be ready, even in the beta weekends they were testings the system which will allow them to fix the game.
i would accept this, only in the case they have made a proper beta where they would fix bugs like broken Events which are the core of the PvE (for example.. ) ...