Originally posted by LoverNoFighter It's SOE. Pretty sure it's gonna suck.
SOE made the game in your quote that > all. Just sayin'. Doesn't matter if they destroyed it after (even though Smed admitted it was a mistake afterwards and seems to really want to push for a sandbox now), they have the potential.
lol, people think that after SWG, SOE can do no right.They were and probably still will be a Pioneer in the MMO industry.They paved the way with Everquest and to an extent Planetside.Did they have their Fails? of course they have,but that doesnt mean every product they put out will be a failure.
Smedley just announced that Everquest Next will be sandbox.
It will be the largest sandbox style MMO ever designed. The same exciting content delivered in a new way. Something you’ve never seen before. The MMO world has never seen before. We didn’t want more Kill 10 Rats quests. We didn’t want more of the same. If you look at the MMOs out there, they’re delivering the same content over and over again. So are we. We need to change that. When we released EverQuest, we changed the world. We want to do that again with a different type of game.
Is he trying really hard to bankrupt SOE or whats going on in this head of his? Did he ever make anything decent? Any sane disission? Also, isnt he kinda late?
gaaaaaah im so mad right now and its just a game...
If you think you are mad now - this is just a pinprick of what is to come
because this type of announcement will be like the shot heard round the world.
For those on either side of the battle.
Fanboys and Haters load your weapons, because Forum Armegedon approaches.
Heed my words. Ye of little faith. Repent now or the coming tide will swallow you whole.
My take on this is there is a large amount of wiggle room because of the conflict about definition of a sandbox when applied to MMORPGs. He could easily be referring to a large social game with free-roaming adventure and very little in terms of MMO sandbox elements.
We won't know until more details are released, but suffice it to say that I'm skeptical that it will be anything like a UO clone.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
My take on this is there is a large amount of wiggle room because of the conflict about definition of a sandbox when applied to MMORPGs. He could easily be referring to a large social game with free-roaming adventure and very little in terms of MMO sandbox elements.
We won't know until more details are released, but suffice it to say that I'm skeptical that it will be anything like a UO clone.
I completely agree with you. I love that so many people assume that "sandbox" = "full loot rights PVP, kill anywhere anytime! make all the towns yourself"
All a sandbox means is that you are given a world, and as a player it is up to you to decide what to do in it.
Everquest 1 was a sandbox. Everyone thinks that because WOW was a derivation of EQ1 that EQ1 = WOW. The sad part is the only thing they truly share is having levels, and that they are PVE driven.
Everquest 1 had levels, but those levels only purpose was to limit how high your skills got, so at level 60 you could have 255 1h slashing for example. All of the formula for damage and such was based entirely on your skills. NOT your level.
WOW on the other hand based EVERYTHING off your level. If you were 5 levels or more below a mob, then you could never to better than a glancing blow, and eventually they took that out and then you just couldnt hit the mob to save your life. In EQ if you got 20 people that were level 20 together, they could take down a level 30 mountain giant that was intended to be soloed by a level 30.
Everquest had no quest hubs of any kind. It had starting cities for every race, and starting areas for every race. Even up to the end game you had a minimum of 2 different zones you could go to that had level appropriate mobs for you to kill.
Nothing in EQ1 ever guided you from one place to another, it was totally your choice.
I could go into more detail, but the point is EQ:N could quite easily be the greatest sandbox ever designed and not have any pvp in it whatsoever or really any relation to games like SWG or UO, etc.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Smedley just announced that Everquest Next will be sandbox.
It will be the largest sandbox style MMO ever designed. The same exciting content delivered in a new way. Something you’ve never seen before. The MMO world has never seen before. We didn’t want more Kill 10 Rats quests. We didn’t want more of the same. If you look at the MMOs out there, they’re delivering the same content over and over again. So are we. We need to change that. When we released EverQuest, we changed the world. We want to do that again with a different type of game.
Is he trying really hard to bankrupt SOE or whats going on in this head of his? Did he ever make anything decent? Any sane disission? Also, isnt he kinda late?
gaaaaaah im so mad right now and its just a game...
Smeds intionetions is and have always been to to get as much of our money as possible. I just hope ge remember that he originally got that from making fun games, but that is hardly his main goal.
Im not, as a matter of fact i know it wont be. You'll never see another MMO with mechanics similar to EQ1s, the point was to show that sandbox means more than SWG or UO, etc.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Personally I dislike marketing statements with NO CONTEXT, NO EVIDENCE - words are wind. Sure he can play a catchy tune on his flute, I'll give him that, but even some of the notes sounded off to me "sandbox-style" really grates without explanation.
The real answer is that Smedley plays EVE, and from his perspective, most copycat themeparks launch, sell a bunch of boxes, and then 'fail' (everyone quits in 1-2 months).
He looks at EVE and thinks if he could make another game like that, or like SWG, where you have 100-300K subs maintainable, that's better than a game that goes to complete fail mode like SWTOR or many of the others.
People like Smedley are simply giving up on their dream that they will make the next wow that will maintain millions of subs for years.
A sandbox will never be as widely popular as simplistic themeparks.
Thats a guess at best and a bad one.
Its really not a guess - and if it is its a very educated one, backed up by a substantial amount of prior evidence.
'Never' might be a bit far fetched, as anythings possible, but its fair to say highly unlikely based off what we've seen previously.
Originally posted by grimal It's rather suspicious, isn't it....anouncing a massive sandbox only recently after they closed one.....is he up to something? Hmmm....I better keep my eye on him.
Bail on product and players when it all goes tits up.
"EQ Next 2 is going to be the biggest themepark with the biggest rides ever made!"
Rinse and repeat.
Cynical grin. :headshake:
Come on Doom Prophets, you're predicting the obvious this morning. Go out on a limb, give us a risky prognostication!
(Just refering to another thread that makes the oh-so-obvious 'prediction' than sandboxes will be more popular than ever as a chatter topic in coming weeks...) No, really?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Smedley just announced that Everquest Next will be sandbox.
It will be the largest sandbox style MMO ever designed. The same exciting content delivered in a new way. Something you’ve never seen before. The MMO world has never seen before. We didn’t want more Kill 10 Rats quests. We didn’t want more of the same. If you look at the MMOs out there, they’re delivering the same content over and over again. So are we. We need to change that. When we released EverQuest, we changed the world. We want to do that again with a different type of game.
Is he trying really hard to bankrupt SOE or whats going on in this head of his? Did he ever make anything decent? Any sane disission? Also, isnt he kinda late?
gaaaaaah im so mad right now and its just a game...
What ARE John Smedley's intentions? Well, as he stated he wanted to get out of the business of making a fast food mmo that delivers content that is instantly consumed by the masses and to steer closer to player created content and a universe that enables that to happen.
I still find it hilarious that sandbox purists beg for companies to put out sandbox games, but when they do none of them are good enough for their tastes. This is why I continue to contend that a true sandbox game is a myth since nobody can agree on what it actually is.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
I agree with you, to a point. If classic UO was released today it would be a minor indie game with a population rivaling Mortal Online. Sandboxes require some degree of patience, UO was the advantage of being, essentially, the only game in town for quite a while, forcing people to find their own way to engage that virtual world.
MMO players today require a degree of structure, if nothing more than being pointed in the correct direction, but I think the genre is sophisticated enough to return to simpler beginnings, it's up to the playerbase to make the most of the tools given, the real question is if the contemporary MMO playerbase sophisticated enough to make the most of a sandbox? I'd argue yes. EVE, Minecraft, etc say we're ready for one.
On another note, say what you will about SOE, and Smed, but we've witnessed a substantian turn around of their conduct with PS2, I'm not saying both the corporation and the man have changed their ways and to let your heart go all aflutter with his his every, yet unsubstantated, promise, but I think given what we've witnessed in recent history warrants not drawing the conclusion of failure and deceit right away.
The phrase has a sting to it, but i agree appropriate.
The only thing people think about when they hear "John Smedley" is the one man that ultimately deconstucted the greatest sandbox ever made. Ever since then, hundreds of thousands of players have drifted from game to game (imo) looking for a similar experience.
It has not yet been recreated. (that can be discussed here)
However.
If people would consider on the other hand, the exact same CEO was "ultimately" responsible for the greatest sandbox ever made, and one wrong decision ultimately led to its utter failure, cannot be denied that he still had a hand in the greatest game ever made. (imo)
If they did it once, if anyone has done it before, the same people that created the first one can create another. I say give him a chance and lets give this guy another go.
Edit;
Notice how i dont even have to mention the games title and every single one of you knows the game. That ladies and gentleman, THAT, was the experience.
The phrase has a sting to it, but i agree appropriate.
The only thing people think about when they hear "John Smedley" is the one man that ultimately deconstucted the greatest sandbox ever made. Ever since then, hundreds of thousands of players have drifted from game to game (imo) looking for a similar experience.
It has not yet been recreated. (that can be discussed here)
However.
If people would consider on the other hand, the exact same CEO was "ultimately" responsible for the greatest sandbox ever made, and one wrong decision ultimately led to its utter failure, cannot be denied that he still had a hand in the greatest game ever made. (imo)
If they did it once, if anyone has done it before, the same people that created the first one can create another. I say give him a chance and lets give this guy another go.
Edit;
Notice how i dont even have to mention the games title and every single one of you knows the game. That ladies and gentleman, THAT, was the experience.
Not sure he did have any real involvement in that games evolution, at least not in any positive aspect, and those that did, have since, long long since, moved on to other things/companies, im not sure SOE even has the resources to recreate something they already had, let alone something new and improved. Which for SOE would be something new in itself, as they have yet to improve on anything they have ever taken over, and EQ btw was not made by SOE, they took it over.
Everquest, the idea, came from Sony, Smedley and a few other people had the idea to make an MMO while working for Sony, the Sony interactive studio decided to go along with the idea, they gave Smedley money for the project .. and Smedley hired "I do coke" Brad Mcquaid and Steve Clover, a programmer, who were going to make the MMO that became Everquest.
It wasn't some other company developing it and Sony buying it, the idea came from Sony and hired people to help develop it, later they hired more and more and it became a complete Sony project.
EQ was from the start going to be a PVE game, because UO was PVP and they wanted PVE.
You can watch all that in Everquest Cracked documentary online.
Smedley just announced that Everquest Next will be sandbox.
It will be the largest sandbox style MMO ever designed. The same exciting content delivered in a new way. Something you’ve never seen before. The MMO world has never seen before. We didn’t want more Kill 10 Rats quests. We didn’t want more of the same. If you look at the MMOs out there, they’re delivering the same content over and over again. So are we. We need to change that. When we released EverQuest, we changed the world. We want to do that again with a different type of game.
Is he trying really hard to bankrupt SOE or whats going on in this head of his? Did he ever make anything decent? Any sane disission? Also, isnt he kinda late?
gaaaaaah im so mad right now and its just a game...
Do you realise how many peopel want a good AAA sandbox game and not just another wow clone?
if tis done right SOE will be back at the top of my list for MMO companies, PS2 is already great fun and may also get sandbox elements at some point..
this last year I think Smedley is doing a great job, first with PS2 then with EQ:next announcement and SOE bringing on some great sounding MMORPGs
IF you dont like sandbox games then guess what there are a million wow clones already out there for you to play.
The real answer is that Smedley plays EVE, and from his perspective, most copycat themeparks launch, sell a bunch of boxes, and then 'fail' (everyone quits in 1-2 months).
He looks at EVE and thinks if he could make another game like that, or like SWG, where you have 100-300K subs maintainable, that's better than a game that goes to complete fail mode like SWTOR or many of the others.
People like Smedley are simply giving up on their dream that they will make the next wow that will maintain millions of subs for years.
A sandbox will never be as widely popular as simplistic themeparks.
Thats a guess at best and a bad one.
Its really not a guess - and if it is its a very educated one, backed up by a substantial amount of prior evidence.
'Never' might be a bit far fetched, as anythings possible, but its fair to say highly unlikely based off what we've seen previously.
but SWG was really popular for a long time until LA/SOE broke it..
Then there is eve that built itself up to a very stable population.
A AAA sandbox done right can bring in lots of people, lets ignore wow number for now as thats mroe of a fluke as we all know nothing has managed to full that many numbers since.. most MMORPGs probalyl sit under 1 mil subs..
So a AAA done right can bring in great numbers and make good money for any company. The reason most people dont play sandbox mmos now other than EVE is because most sandbox games are made by indie companies and are riddled with bugs, other than the real MMORPG players not many people can be bothered to put up with a game that had those kind of issues.
On nearly every poll on here asknig people what they want next a themepark or a sandbox its the sandbox that usually gets the most votes... and i know not every mmo player ni the world comes on here but thats got to be a sign to waht people want.
Comments
SOE made the game in your quote that > all. Just sayin'. Doesn't matter if they destroyed it after (even though Smed admitted it was a mistake afterwards and seems to really want to push for a sandbox now), they have the potential.
lol, people think that after SWG, SOE can do no right.They were and probably still will be a Pioneer in the MMO industry.They paved the way with Everquest and to an extent Planetside.Did they have their Fails? of course they have,but that doesnt mean every product they put out will be a failure.
Im pulling for EQN,I hope its a massive hit.
If you think you are mad now - this is just a pinprick of what is to come
because this type of announcement will be like the shot heard round the world.
For those on either side of the battle.
Fanboys and Haters load your weapons, because Forum Armegedon approaches.
Heed my words. Ye of little faith. Repent now or the coming tide will swallow you whole.
My take on this is there is a large amount of wiggle room because of the conflict about definition of a sandbox when applied to MMORPGs. He could easily be referring to a large social game with free-roaming adventure and very little in terms of MMO sandbox elements.
We won't know until more details are released, but suffice it to say that I'm skeptical that it will be anything like a UO clone.
I completely agree with you. I love that so many people assume that "sandbox" = "full loot rights PVP, kill anywhere anytime! make all the towns yourself"
All a sandbox means is that you are given a world, and as a player it is up to you to decide what to do in it.
Everquest 1 was a sandbox. Everyone thinks that because WOW was a derivation of EQ1 that EQ1 = WOW. The sad part is the only thing they truly share is having levels, and that they are PVE driven.
Everquest 1 had levels, but those levels only purpose was to limit how high your skills got, so at level 60 you could have 255 1h slashing for example. All of the formula for damage and such was based entirely on your skills. NOT your level.
WOW on the other hand based EVERYTHING off your level. If you were 5 levels or more below a mob, then you could never to better than a glancing blow, and eventually they took that out and then you just couldnt hit the mob to save your life. In EQ if you got 20 people that were level 20 together, they could take down a level 30 mountain giant that was intended to be soloed by a level 30.
Everquest had no quest hubs of any kind. It had starting cities for every race, and starting areas for every race. Even up to the end game you had a minimum of 2 different zones you could go to that had level appropriate mobs for you to kill.
Nothing in EQ1 ever guided you from one place to another, it was totally your choice.
I could go into more detail, but the point is EQ:N could quite easily be the greatest sandbox ever designed and not have any pvp in it whatsoever or really any relation to games like SWG or UO, etc.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
i wouldnt assume itll be just like eq either.
Smeds intionetions is and have always been to to get as much of our money as possible. I just hope ge remember that he originally got that from making fun games, but that is hardly his main goal.
Im not, as a matter of fact i know it wont be. You'll never see another MMO with mechanics similar to EQ1s, the point was to show that sandbox means more than SWG or UO, etc.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Its really not a guess - and if it is its a very educated one, backed up by a substantial amount of prior evidence.
'Never' might be a bit far fetched, as anythings possible, but its fair to say highly unlikely based off what we've seen previously.
It's a trap.
John Smedley wouldnt know a sandbox if it punched him on the nose... Heck, he doesn't even know a good game.
He's a beancounter who's lived off of other peoples work, and whenever he "took" control, he ran the games into the ground.
Hype up a franchise.
Grab lots of money.
Bail on product and players when it all goes tits up.
"EQ Next 2 is going to be the biggest themepark with the biggest rides ever made!"
Rinse and repeat.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Lucas Arts closed SWG , SOE had no choice ...
Cynical grin. :headshake:
Come on Doom Prophets, you're predicting the obvious this morning. Go out on a limb, give us a risky prognostication!
(Just refering to another thread that makes the oh-so-obvious 'prediction' than sandboxes will be more popular than ever as a chatter topic in coming weeks...) No, really?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
What ARE John Smedley's intentions? Well, as he stated he wanted to get out of the business of making a fast food mmo that delivers content that is instantly consumed by the masses and to steer closer to player created content and a universe that enables that to happen.
I still find it hilarious that sandbox purists beg for companies to put out sandbox games, but when they do none of them are good enough for their tastes. This is why I continue to contend that a true sandbox game is a myth since nobody can agree on what it actually is.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
I agree with you, to a point. If classic UO was released today it would be a minor indie game with a population rivaling Mortal Online. Sandboxes require some degree of patience, UO was the advantage of being, essentially, the only game in town for quite a while, forcing people to find their own way to engage that virtual world.
MMO players today require a degree of structure, if nothing more than being pointed in the correct direction, but I think the genre is sophisticated enough to return to simpler beginnings, it's up to the playerbase to make the most of the tools given, the real question is if the contemporary MMO playerbase sophisticated enough to make the most of a sandbox? I'd argue yes. EVE, Minecraft, etc say we're ready for one.
On another note, say what you will about SOE, and Smed, but we've witnessed a substantian turn around of their conduct with PS2, I'm not saying both the corporation and the man have changed their ways and to let your heart go all aflutter with his his every, yet unsubstantated, promise, but I think given what we've witnessed in recent history warrants not drawing the conclusion of failure and deceit right away.
Give the nigga a chance.
The phrase has a sting to it, but i agree appropriate.
The only thing people think about when they hear "John Smedley" is the one man that ultimately deconstucted the greatest sandbox ever made. Ever since then, hundreds of thousands of players have drifted from game to game (imo) looking for a similar experience.
It has not yet been recreated. (that can be discussed here)
However.
If people would consider on the other hand, the exact same CEO was "ultimately" responsible for the greatest sandbox ever made, and one wrong decision ultimately led to its utter failure, cannot be denied that he still had a hand in the greatest game ever made. (imo)
If they did it once, if anyone has done it before, the same people that created the first one can create another. I say give him a chance and lets give this guy another go.
Edit;
Notice how i dont even have to mention the games title and every single one of you knows the game. That ladies and gentleman, THAT, was the experience.
Not sure he did have any real involvement in that games evolution, at least not in any positive aspect, and those that did, have since, long long since, moved on to other things/companies, im not sure SOE even has the resources to recreate something they already had, let alone something new and improved. Which for SOE would be something new in itself, as they have yet to improve on anything they have ever taken over, and EQ btw was not made by SOE, they took it over.
Everquest, the idea, came from Sony, Smedley and a few other people had the idea to make an MMO while working for Sony, the Sony interactive studio decided to go along with the idea, they gave Smedley money for the project .. and Smedley hired "I do coke" Brad Mcquaid and Steve Clover, a programmer, who were going to make the MMO that became Everquest.
It wasn't some other company developing it and Sony buying it, the idea came from Sony and hired people to help develop it, later they hired more and more and it became a complete Sony project.
EQ was from the start going to be a PVE game, because UO was PVP and they wanted PVE.
You can watch all that in Everquest Cracked documentary online.
Do you realise how many peopel want a good AAA sandbox game and not just another wow clone?
if tis done right SOE will be back at the top of my list for MMO companies, PS2 is already great fun and may also get sandbox elements at some point..
this last year I think Smedley is doing a great job, first with PS2 then with EQ:next announcement and SOE bringing on some great sounding MMORPGs
IF you dont like sandbox games then guess what there are a million wow clones already out there for you to play.
but SWG was really popular for a long time until LA/SOE broke it..
Then there is eve that built itself up to a very stable population.
A AAA sandbox done right can bring in lots of people, lets ignore wow number for now as thats mroe of a fluke as we all know nothing has managed to full that many numbers since.. most MMORPGs probalyl sit under 1 mil subs..
So a AAA done right can bring in great numbers and make good money for any company. The reason most people dont play sandbox mmos now other than EVE is because most sandbox games are made by indie companies and are riddled with bugs, other than the real MMORPG players not many people can be bothered to put up with a game that had those kind of issues.
On nearly every poll on here asknig people what they want next a themepark or a sandbox its the sandbox that usually gets the most votes... and i know not every mmo player ni the world comes on here but thats got to be a sign to waht people want.
A little game called EverQuest came directly from him, his idea.
And then there was SWG, and Planetside, and Planetside 2...
Also it's worth noting that, thus far, there haven't been many, or any, largely successful themepark/WoW clones.
Most of them have done worse than hardcore classic MMORPGs and died a lot faster, despite the market being "bigger" now.
Sandboxes/hardcore MMOs seem to be the way to go for long term money/growth.