I think the number 2 rule should be "Every item in the game can also be crafted"
Just like eve online
uhuh....and then you get players around the table controlling the market and saying...this is our price....1200% and you pay it, either you like it or not.
A popular option is to stop playing or not even buy the game in the first place.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
LOL, remember why games moved from sandbox to instanced.........................Jackwagons......................Sorry but their number has been increasing exponentially over the last few years so GL with your fantasy........Your game goes nowhere if you don't have a way to deal with them. That should be no. 1.
Originally posted by lokiboard LOL, remember why games moved from sandbox to instanced.........................[edit]......................
How many SOE games, exactly, are non-instanced? (I don't remember a single one, but I could be wrong.)
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
That would be the difference between instancing and zoning. You can't really have instances in a sandbox, but you can have zoning e.g. darkfall dungeons.
I think the number 2 rule should be "Every item in the game can also be crafted"
Just like eve online
uhuh....and then you get players around the table controlling the market and saying...this is our price....1200% and you pay it, either you like it or not.
For a short while, until someone else comes in and sells at a cheaper price, or develops a better version and the original producers have to compete on price. That's how a sandbox works.
No and no. The number one rule of a sandbox is that it needs to be an open-ended world where you are free to do a number of things and not funneled from quest hub to quest hub. Item crafting can be one of those activities but a sandbox does not neccessarly need to be crafting centrict, certainly not to the extent that everything in the game is craftable, that is insane.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
1. Being a bad player should be rough, almost unenjoyable. Steps towards playing better should feel motivational.
2. Being a good player should be hard, but only if you stive to reach "the top". Reaching "the top" should only be able for exceptionally skilled players, and cannot be done without player cooperation, determination and devotion.
3. Gameplay should be felt as a chore when done "wrong".
4. You should be able to play the way you want - but everything must be a challenge.
5. Progress should not be made without access to the right tools for the job.
6. Survival of the fittest. Give players a reason to be careful and anxious, and a reason to be praying on the weak.
I think #2 is more important than #1. Would be awesome to have everything craftable, and also representable in the game environment. I am not opposed to everything being able to be destroyed either though. Especially if it creates a great economy.
Eh, my number one rule of a sandbox is that a crafting character must be just as viable as combat character. Not something that gets tacked onto combat characters - but crafting must be something people can do, INSTEAD of combat, with gameplay that makes that feel like just as important as going out and killing stuff.
Funny how my number one rule is completely unrelated to your number one rule..
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Originally posted by Ausare Assumes sandbox has to be pvp.
It's PvPers that have been clamouring for sandbox games. So of course it appears to go hand in hand. The people who whine about how sandboxes don't have to be PvP are probably people who are only now starting to notice that all games are becoming the same. So with that said, no, a sandbox doesn't have to be PvP. The carebear's are a little late to the party though because they have been busy begging for all the games to be easy mode with fluff items, the ability to choose difficulty settings, no death penalty, no looting corpses, easy leveling/skilling and so on. They can continue to enjoy the "end game" and everything else that they have created. Let the PvPers have what they want. They notice we are on to something and they want to come and cripple it to the state of all the other current stale games.
Its funny how people get what they want only to find out that it isn't what they actually want, and then they continue to try to get everything else to be like the thing they thought they originally wanted! Perhaps they all need to sit back and let others have their way for a bit.
Originally posted by Ausare Assumes sandbox has to be pvp.
It's PvPers that have been clamouring for sandbox games. So of course it appears to go hand in hand. The people who whine about how sandboxes don't have to be PvP are probably people who are only now starting to notice that all games are becoming the same. So with that said, no, a sandbox doesn't have to be PvP. The carebear's are a little late to the party though because they have been busy begging for all the games to be easy mode with fluff items, the ability to choose difficulty settings, no death penalty, no looting corpses, easy leveling/skilling and so on. They can continue to enjoy the "end game" and everything else that they have created. Let the PvPers have what they want. They notice we are on to something and they want to come and cripple it to the state of all the other current stale games.
Its funny how people get what they want only to find out that it isn't what they actually want, and then they continue to try to get everything else to be like the thing they thought they originally wanted! Perhaps they all need to sit back and let others have their way for a bit.
Eh, my number one rule of a sandbox is that a crafting character must be just as viable as combat character. Not something that gets tacked onto combat characters - but crafting must be something people can do, INSTEAD of combat, with gameplay that makes that feel like just as important as going out and killing stuff.
Funny how my number one rule is completely unrelated to your number one rule..
I agree with that, but its funny that you state that your number one rule is unrelated. Its actually more related than you think. If you want a pure crafter than you need an economy to support it. In UO it worked well because people always had to replace/upgrade/repair gear. But hey, I guess you'll have fun just crafting unbreakable weapons/items that no one will ever need to replace and thus, never order again either.
*edit - thinking about it further, I guess it could work without destructible items if you sold everything to NPC's and had something meaningful to spend your new found cash on. Otherwise if things aren't destructible I suppose you'll only be making money on items you use up such as ammo.
Originally posted by Ausare Assumes sandbox has to be pvp.
It's PvPers that have been clamouring for sandbox games. So of course it appears to go hand in hand. The people who whine about how sandboxes don't have to be PvP are probably people who are only now starting to notice that all games are becoming the same. So with that said, no, a sandbox doesn't have to be PvP. The carebear's are a little late to the party though because they have been busy begging for all the games to be easy mode with fluff items, the ability to choose difficulty settings, no death penalty, no looting corpses, easy leveling/skilling and so on. They can continue to enjoy the "end game" and everything else that they have created. Let the PvPers have what they want. They notice we are on to something and they want to come and cripple it to the state of all the other current stale games.
Its funny how people get what they want only to find out that it isn't what they actually want, and then they continue to try to get everything else to be like the thing they thought they originally wanted! Perhaps they all need to sit back and let others have their way for a bit.
I'm a PvPer and not clamouring for sandbox games.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Eh, my number one rule of a sandbox is that a crafting character must be just as viable as combat character. Not something that gets tacked onto combat characters - but crafting must be something people can do, INSTEAD of combat, with gameplay that makes that feel like just as important as going out and killing stuff.
Funny how my number one rule is completely unrelated to your number one rule..
I agree with that, but its funny that you state that your number one rule is unrelated. Its actually more related than you think. If you want a pure crafter than you need an economy to support it. In UO it worked well because people always had to replace/upgrade/repair gear. But hey, I guess you'll have fun just crafting unbreakable weapons/items that no one will ever need to replace and thus, never order again either.
*edit - thinking about it further, I guess it could work without destructible items if you sold everything to NPC's and had something meaningful to spend your new found cash on. Otherwise if things aren't destructible I suppose you'll only be making money on items you use up such as ammo.
Guess you're right, it's not entirely unrelated. I might have been exaggerating a bit, for effect
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Originally posted by Ausare Assumes sandbox has to be pvp.
It's PvPers that have been clamouring for sandbox games. So of course it appears to go hand in hand. The people who whine about how sandboxes don't have to be PvP are probably people who are only now starting to notice that all games are becoming the same. So with that said, no, a sandbox doesn't have to be PvP. The carebear's are a little late to the party though because they have been busy begging for all the games to be easy mode with fluff items, the ability to choose difficulty settings, no death penalty, no looting corpses, easy leveling/skilling and so on. They can continue to enjoy the "end game" and everything else that they have created. Let the PvPers have what they want. They notice we are on to something and they want to come and cripple it to the state of all the other current stale games.
Its funny how people get what they want only to find out that it isn't what they actually want, and then they continue to try to get everything else to be like the thing they thought they originally wanted! Perhaps they all need to sit back and let others have their way for a bit.
I'm a PvPer and not clamouring for sandbox games.
I wasn't speaking for every PvPer.... I was stating that its PvPers that have been clamouring for sandbox games (my statement doesn't mean ALL pvpers, just that its been in general, only pvpers). Good for you though?
Comments
A popular option is to stop playing or not even buy the game in the first place.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
If the devs applies rule 1 and 2, then the first rule to you as a player is don't wield what you can't afford to replace or maintain.
How many SOE games, exactly, are non-instanced? (I don't remember a single one, but I could be wrong.)
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Its no longer around but SWG wasn't instanced.....The only thing you loaded into was another planet or later space....
Cool, I think I will go play this awesome game you are prais...oh wait...
For a short while, until someone else comes in and sells at a cheaper price, or develops a better version and the original producers have to compete on price. That's how a sandbox works.
Vanguard is one, EQ was until LDON.
No and no. The number one rule of a sandbox is that it needs to be an open-ended world where you are free to do a number of things and not funneled from quest hub to quest hub. Item crafting can be one of those activities but a sandbox does not neccessarly need to be crafting centrict, certainly not to the extent that everything in the game is craftable, that is insane.
My gaming blog
Right, McQuaid. Good catch.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Did SOE actually create either title, or did they acquire them after their release?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
My 6 "rules" for a sandbox:
1. Being a bad player should be rough, almost unenjoyable. Steps towards playing better should feel motivational.
2. Being a good player should be hard, but only if you stive to reach "the top". Reaching "the top" should only be able for exceptionally skilled players, and cannot be done without player cooperation, determination and devotion.
3. Gameplay should be felt as a chore when done "wrong".
4. You should be able to play the way you want - but everything must be a challenge.
5. Progress should not be made without access to the right tools for the job.
6. Survival of the fittest. Give players a reason to be careful and anxious, and a reason to be praying on the weak.
Yes, they are harsh. Input, please?
Eh, my number one rule of a sandbox is that a crafting character must be just as viable as combat character. Not something that gets tacked onto combat characters - but crafting must be something people can do, INSTEAD of combat, with gameplay that makes that feel like just as important as going out and killing stuff.
Funny how my number one rule is completely unrelated to your number one rule..
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
It's PvPers that have been clamouring for sandbox games. So of course it appears to go hand in hand. The people who whine about how sandboxes don't have to be PvP are probably people who are only now starting to notice that all games are becoming the same. So with that said, no, a sandbox doesn't have to be PvP. The carebear's are a little late to the party though because they have been busy begging for all the games to be easy mode with fluff items, the ability to choose difficulty settings, no death penalty, no looting corpses, easy leveling/skilling and so on. They can continue to enjoy the "end game" and everything else that they have created. Let the PvPers have what they want. They notice we are on to something and they want to come and cripple it to the state of all the other current stale games.
Its funny how people get what they want only to find out that it isn't what they actually want, and then they continue to try to get everything else to be like the thing they thought they originally wanted! Perhaps they all need to sit back and let others have their way for a bit.
Good post
I agree with that, but its funny that you state that your number one rule is unrelated. Its actually more related than you think. If you want a pure crafter than you need an economy to support it. In UO it worked well because people always had to replace/upgrade/repair gear. But hey, I guess you'll have fun just crafting unbreakable weapons/items that no one will ever need to replace and thus, never order again either.
*edit - thinking about it further, I guess it could work without destructible items if you sold everything to NPC's and had something meaningful to spend your new found cash on. Otherwise if things aren't destructible I suppose you'll only be making money on items you use up such as ammo.
I'm a PvPer and not clamouring for sandbox games.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Sigil-Verant.
Guess you're right, it's not entirely unrelated. I might have been exaggerating a bit, for effect
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I wasn't speaking for every PvPer.... I was stating that its PvPers that have been clamouring for sandbox games (my statement doesn't mean ALL pvpers, just that its been in general, only pvpers). Good for you though?