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Can anyone speak to the extent UW will be a "sandbox"?

124

Comments

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Member CommonPosts: 2,556
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by Biskop
    @ Torgrim

    Darkfall is not centered around PvE but it's there for those who love it. Guess it's a sanbox after all then..?

    Sorry but you inventing some random PvE vs PvP percentage qualification does not make your private definitions universal.

    disagree, as DFO doesnt appear to have any appreciable PVE associated with it, it does however appear to be a PvP based Themepark, which does put it into a fairly narrow band of 'niche' if thats possible, one thing i would definitely not class DF;UW as though, is a sandbox game, it misses too many categories to be classed as one, nor do i think it is meant to be one.image

    Uh, if DF doesn't have appreciable PvE, then what have I been doing with most of my time in Darkfall for the last 3 years? (hint, it's PvE).

    And it's not anything resembling a themepark. There's no linear path through the game, no locked in classes that dictate your skills and what you can wear, no zones, no instances, no invisible walls. I don't think people know what a themepark is anymore.

  • TorgrimTorgrim Member CommonPosts: 2,088
    Originally posted by Biskop
    @ Torgrim

    Darkfall is not centered around PvE but it's there for those who love it. Guess it's a sanbox after all then..?

    Sorry but you inventing some random PvE vs PvP percentage qualification does not make your private definitions universal.

     

    Wurm has equal PVP and PVE, PVP is just that PVP, killing someone dosent take much programing or braincells to understand  but program and make different features for PVE that takes a long time.

    I have no idea why I really respond to your flawed post but you just seem to be trolling or trying to make a good post so you can lean back in your chair and say yeah I got him there.

     

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • KuinnKuinn Member UncommonPosts: 2,072
    Originally posted by Topherpunch

    I think people are a bit confused about the definition of a themepark and a sandbox. A sandbox is a game that allows you to go anywhere in the game and challenges you to explore without a set path. A themepark is waiting in line with hundreds (if not thousands) for your turn at a quest, or mob, that an NPC told you to kill. 

     

    This is imo only a small slice of the sandbox pie. The "correct definition" to me is so much more than just how questing or the lack of it works in the game. To me it's in the name "sandbox" - as crazy as it might sound. What do you do at a sandbox? You build and destroy. A game should have a great deal of overall freedom on top of being able to shape the world somehow, to be a sandbox, for me at least as a customer.

     

    Skyrim would be pretty close if there were a way to impact the world permanently in some major ways outside of quests and triggered events, like burn a town to the ground, and build your own house anywhere you want as long as the ground can support it, stuff like that. Also complete random events like bandits attacking towns, or maybe a troll/giant and so on, something else than just dragons, without you having to pull it to the town. More random and interactive world.

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper Member CommonPosts: 2,751
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    So you found yourself a new word "rebuttal" to fuel your argument and still you haven't posted one single thread of  straw why Darkfall is in the same sandbox classroom as SWG,EVE,UO,AC,Ryzom,Wurm.

    Can you you please post why Darkfall is fit in the same classroom or are you gonna write rebuttal to all my my post? I really hope so beacuse if you do then I know Darkfall is not a sandbox game.

    Just beacuse a game had FFA PVP dosen't automaticly lable it sandbox even you have to agree with this.

    A true sandbox game must have an equal % of PVE and PVP, none of em can have more, in Darkfall case you have more PVP than PVE hence why it's labled PVP arena.

    You can babble how much you like why Darkfall is a sandbox game when in reality it is only a PVP game with little PVE.

    You can use whatever fancy words you like and twist and bend your opinion but you are still wrong in anyway.

    As I sead check the other games and then come back to me and say the same thing.

    But sadly I think you are one of the WoW generation and you have no clue what most of the games were in the old days and you still brickwall argument that you are right, good for you I guess, but sadly you are misstaken.

     

    You know the idea is generally to come up with cogent arguments instead of just trying to attack the poster. "Fail", "WoW generation", "it just isn't", "you've never played" and some half assed attempt attacking my use of a word (a whopping two times) is really just rather pathetic.

     

    I've played SWG/EVE/UO and Darkfall btw (not that it has anything whatsoever to do with you) which is why I am actually commenting on the situation, so I suggest you try debate the points I'm making and not me personally. It might serve your case better.

     

    Darkfall's systems which are a common theme (pardon the pun) in traditonally accepted sandbox games:

     

    Non linear.

    Skill based.

    Decentralized, player driven economy.

    Open pvp.

    Open pve.

    Player crafting based over and above epic gear raid based.

    Decay/loot mechanics to further drive both the economy and crafting.

    Non instanced housing.

    The ability for the player to impact upon and alter the game world, the players having a direct, tangible and persistent impact upon the game world.

    No heavy quest chaining progression.

    No guided zoning, no real zoning at all.

    No "endgame" which is partitioned off from the persistant world.

    The core mechanics all interlink into one another, they do not stand alone.

    Player created meta roles.

    Little limit placed upon player interaction.

     

    Btw if a sandbox game must have an equal amount of pve and pvp then I guess SWG wasn't a sandbox then right? I guess the fact that there was zero territory control, zero resource domination, coupled with the fact it was PVE heavy means it was just  themepark/pve arena right? No, it was a pve centric sandbox, just like Darkfall is a pvp centric sandbox. This notion of having to have an exact 50/50 split is just daft as a brush.

     

    Darkfall has all the core mechanics which point to it being a sandbox game, mechanics which are traditionally observed in sandbox mmos. That it is pvp centric or that other games have more fully fleshed out systems*, doesn't suddenly alter that fact..... at all.

     

    * An example would be the level to which you can decorate your player house, or the additional layers of complexity in the crafting system, or additional minor meta roles.

     

    Darkfall sits nicely in that "classroom", it doesn't though sit at the top table (or anywhere near it) because it doesn't have the fully fleshed out features and depth that some of those games offered. That does not suddenly make it a themepark or (laughably) a pvp arena game.

     

    The game is quite clearly a pvp centric sandbox.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper Member CommonPosts: 2,751
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by Biskop
    @ Torgrim

    Darkfall is not centered around PvE but it's there for those who love it. Guess it's a sanbox after all then..?

    Sorry but you inventing some random PvE vs PvP percentage qualification does not make your private definitions universal.

    disagree, as DFO doesnt appear to have any appreciable PVE associated with it, it does however appear to be a PvP based Themepark, which does put it into a fairly narrow band of 'niche' if thats possible, one thing i would definitely not class DF;UW as though, is a sandbox game, it misses too many categories to be classed as one, nor do i think it is meant to be one.image

    Feel free to list the themepark mechanics it has and list the sandbox ones missing.

     

    As for no pve, it has dungeons, mobs and quests. It has crafting, trading, exploration, treasure hunting, resource gathering, house decoration, trading.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • CaldrinCaldrin Member UncommonPosts: 4,505

    lo lthis thread is pretty funny..

    Darkfall is in no way a themepark and its as simple as that... you are not taken from point to point lvling up your character..

    You can do what you want when you want.. your free..

     

     

     

  • TorgrimTorgrim Member CommonPosts: 2,088
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    So you found yourself a new word "rebuttal" to fuel your argument and still you haven't posted one single thread of  straw why Darkfall is in the same sandbox classroom as SWG,EVE,UO,AC,Ryzom,Wurm.

    Can you you please post why Darkfall is fit in the same classroom or are you gonna write rebuttal to all my my post? I really hope so beacuse if you do then I know Darkfall is not a sandbox game.

    Just beacuse a game had FFA PVP dosen't automaticly lable it sandbox even you have to agree with this.

    A true sandbox game must have an equal % of PVE and PVP, none of em can have more, in Darkfall case you have more PVP than PVE hence why it's labled PVP arena.

    You can babble how much you like why Darkfall is a sandbox game when in reality it is only a PVP game with little PVE.

    You can use whatever fancy words you like and twist and bend your opinion but you are still wrong in anyway.

    As I sead check the other games and then come back to me and say the same thing.

    But sadly I think you are one of the WoW generation and you have no clue what most of the games were in the old days and you still brickwall argument that you are right, good for you I guess, but sadly you are misstaken.

     

     

     Darkfall sits nicely in that "classroom"

     

    If that's the case why do most who play Darkfall only do PVP?

    Yes that's right there isnt much else to do when PVE aspect of the game is so thin It's pointless.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • BiskopBiskop Member UncommonPosts: 709
    I would also like to see someone listing all these themepark features that DF supposedly have.

    Does it have classes?
    Heavy questing focus?
    Instances and zones?
    Premade stories tied to classes/factions/whatnot?
    Raiding?
    Conensual PvP separated from the open world?

    Please elaborate on why the game is a themepark, or stop this fail trolling already. PvP themeparks like WAR or Aion have nothing in common with DF except for the fact that they allow you to control a character in an online world.
  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper Member CommonPosts: 2,751
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     Darkfall sits nicely in that "classroom"

     

    If that's the case why do most who play Darkfall only do PVP?

    Yes that's right there isnt much else to do when PVE aspect of the game is so thin It's pointless.

    That's one hell of a snip right there...

     

    Most people get involved in pvp in Darkfall because they realise it is a pvp centric sandbox and they have some interest in, you know, pvping.

    Most people realise you can actually pve, and they do just that.

     

    I have already stated numerous times that the content is not as fleshed out (i.e. thin) as it is in say UO, or EVE. Yet again I'll point out that doesn't suddenly turn the game into a themepark or arena.

     

    It doesn't have as much pve as you personally would like. SWG didn't have as much pvp as I enjoy, that doesn't suddenly turn the game into a themepark/arena either.

     

    The core mechanics point to Darkfall clearly being a sandbox (in the mmorpg sense of the word). Is it as fleshed out or as "good" as UO or EVE or SWG? Nope. Is it more pvp centric? Yep. But it is a sandbox all the same, calling it a themepark or an arena game is just inherently incorrect (which is further attested to by the fact that no one has come up with an even semi plausible case as to it being a "themepark").

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper Member CommonPosts: 2,751
    Originally posted by Biskop
    I would also like to see someone listing all these themepark features that DF supposedly have.

    Does it have classes?
    Heavy questing focus?
    Instances and zones?
    Premade stories tied to classes/factions/whatnot?
    Raiding?
    Conensual PvP separated from the open world?

    Please elaborate on why the game is a themepark, or stop this fail trolling already. PvP themeparks like WAR or Aion have nothing in common with DF except for the fact that they allow you to control a character in an online world.

    I wouldn't hold your breath.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • timmy12timmy12 Member UncommonPosts: 390
    Originally posted by Biskop
    I would also like to see someone listing all these themepark features that DF supposedly have.

    Does it have classes?
    Heavy questing focus?
    Instances and zones?
    Premade stories tied to classes/factions/whatnot?
    Raiding?
    Conensual PvP separated from the open world?

    Please elaborate on why the game is a themepark, or stop this fail trolling already. PvP themeparks like WAR or Aion have nothing in common with DF except for the fact that they allow you to control a character in an online world.

    Im Glad Darkfall has none of these features becuase was fine how it was besides the bugs and shit the game was hella fun pvping and pveing idk wtf half u talking about but i played Darkfall for a good time and i did PVE quite a bit espically with my guild i was in shit was fun. 

  • AnnwynAnnwyn Member UncommonPosts: 2,854
    Originally posted by Biskop
    I would also like to see someone listing all these themepark features that DF supposedly have.

    Does it have classes?
    Heavy questing focus?
    Instances and zones?
    Premade stories tied to classes/factions/whatnot?
    Raiding?
    Conensual PvP separated from the open world?

    Please elaborate on why the game is a themepark, or stop this fail trolling already. PvP themeparks like WAR or Aion have nothing in common with DF except for the fact that they allow you to control a character in an online world.

    It's not quite about what DarkFall lacks to be a Themepark, but rather what DarkFall lacks to be a sandbox.

    There is only 1 real purpose in DarkFall, reaching the "end game", in other words, having your stats and skills at a high level enough to be competitive in PvP.  That's all there is to DarkFall, once the "end-game" is reached it's all about PvP . Whereas Sandboxes are not strictly focused on one thing, but offers a wide array of activities and purposes for different kinds of players. DarkFall offers no such thing...except Fun Hulks.

    Themeparks are all about reaching the end-game, whether it is through grinding or questing is purely a design choice. DarkFall is no different.

    Ultimately, if you're a PvPer, DarkFall is a wonderful game. However, if you're looking for a Sandbox that has strong crafting mechanics, be able to get involved with the market (à la EVE), become an influencial diplomat, or just own a little patch of dirt to build whatever it is you fancy, well you're better off elsewhere.

     

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by MadnessRealm
    It's not quite about what DarkFall lacks to be a Themepark, but rather what DarkFall lacks to be a sandbox.There is only 1 real purpose in DarkFall, reaching the "end game", in other words, having your stats and skills at a high level enough to be competitive in PvP.  That's all their is to DarkFall, once the "end-game" is reached it's all about PvP . Whereas Sandboxes are not strictly focused on one thing, but offers a wide array of activities and purposes for different kinds of players. DarkFall offers no such thing...except Fun Hulks.Themeparks are all about reaching the end-game, whether it is through grinding or questing is purely a design choice. DarkFall is no different.

    Pretty much this.

    Also, there are no sandbox or themepark features. Features do not make design.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    Darkfall doesn't have an endgame, like all sandboxes.
  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,908

    God... I wish a few of the bigger game sites would get together at a convention and decide what is what and what each term actually means.

    These definition threads are ridiculous :/

     

    For my part though in this silly perpetual back and forth... DF is a hybrid, just as 99% of MMORPGs are. Pure and simple. It is just one that is heavier on the 'sand' side than the 'theme'.

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper Member CommonPosts: 2,751
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    God... I wish a few of the bigger game sites would get together at a convention and decide what is what and what each term actually means.

    These definition threads are ridiculous :/

     

    For my part though in this silly perpetual back and forth... DF is a hybrid, just as 99% of MMORPGs are. Pure and simple. It is just one that is heavier on the 'sand' side than the 'theme'.

    It is a bit of a clusterfk isn't. At the end of the day it is futile/pointless debate really.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • HancakesHancakes Member Posts: 1,045
    Originally posted by MadnessRealm
    Originally posted by Biskop
    I would also like to see someone listing all these themepark features that DF supposedly have.

    Does it have classes?
    Heavy questing focus?
    Instances and zones?
    Premade stories tied to classes/factions/whatnot?
    Raiding?
    Conensual PvP separated from the open world?

    Please elaborate on why the game is a themepark, or stop this fail trolling already. PvP themeparks like WAR or Aion have nothing in common with DF except for the fact that they allow you to control a character in an online world.

    It's not quite about what DarkFall lacks to be a Themepark, but rather what DarkFall lacks to be a sandbox.

    There is only 1 real purpose in DarkFall, reaching the "end game", in other words, having your stats and skills at a high level enough to be competitive in PvP.  That's all there is to DarkFall, once the "end-game" is reached it's all about PvP .

     

    So the "end game" is when you can start being competitive in PvP? WTF, sounds more like the game is just beginning.

    You also fail to grasp the scope of the PVP. (polical, siege, control)
  • SirBalinSirBalin Member UncommonPosts: 1,300
    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    lol people calling the likes of

    TSW, EQ, EQ2!!!, GW2, DAOC (well ok that has some hybridness)  "sandboxes" on other threads

    now we have people calling darkfall a "themepark"

    I predict by the end of the month we will get a " utima online is a themepark, swtor is a sandbox" thread.

     

    anyway to put it this way OP:

    Darkfall has more in common with eve than it has in common with wow

    Yea, exactly...lol...Darkfall is a sandbox...if you call TSW, EQ, GW2 etc sandboxes...then you may want to ensure you know what a sandbox is

    Incognito
    www.incognito-gaming.us
    "You're either with us or against us"

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by MadnessRealm
    Originally posted by Biskop
    I would also like to see someone listing all these themepark features that DF supposedly have.

    Does it have classes?
    Heavy questing focus?
    Instances and zones?
    Premade stories tied to classes/factions/whatnot?
    Raiding?
    Conensual PvP separated from the open world?

    Please elaborate on why the game is a themepark, or stop this fail trolling already. PvP themeparks like WAR or Aion have nothing in common with DF except for the fact that they allow you to control a character in an online world.

    It's not quite about what DarkFall lacks to be a Themepark, but rather what DarkFall lacks to be a sandbox.

    There is only 1 real purpose in DarkFall, reaching the "end game", in other words, having your stats and skills at a high level enough to be competitive in PvP.  That's all there is to DarkFall, once the "end-game" is reached it's all about PvP .

     

    So the "end game" is when you can start being competitive in PvP? WTF, sounds more like the game is just beginning.

    You also fail to grasp the scope of the PVP. (polical, siege, control)

    The point is, its all about PvP, which makes the game a PvP orientated Themepark, a sandbox game wouldnt have that kind of focus, anyone who has played either Eve Online or SWG pre-NGE will know what i mean. It doesnt really matter what the scope is of the PVP in the game, which, despite using the word scope, in your argument, really doesnt list many factors, just 3 in fact, even Eve onlines PvP has much wider scope for PVP than that, the reason why this is the case, is because, DF;UW is not a sandbox game, it doesnt have the tools to support that kind of open ended gameplay, DFO didnt and the 'upgraded' version of DFO isnt really that much different from the original.image

  • BiskopBiskop Member UncommonPosts: 709

    So, still no real arguments as to why DF is a themepark. Thought so.

    And no, claiming its PvP focus makes it a themepark is not an argument. Its pure, base, and undiluted stupidity.

    Neither is pointing to its lack of well-developed sandbox features an argument, just an observation; that fact that DF does not have as many deep systems as EVE does not make it a themepark - just less of a sandbox.

    But this thread is so utterly stupid and pointless that I'm questioning my own sanity for even bothering with it. Still, the kind of newspeak going on here is rather symptomatic of our times; terms lose their meaning and any internet moron can start making up his own definitions and keep posting bullshit "facts" with no base in reality. Can't wait for this worthless era to end.

  • BadaboomBadaboom Member UncommonPosts: 2,380

    This is an analogy that I have used many time and it should help some people understand better the differences between sandbox and themeparks.

    Sandbox is to lego as Themepark is to legoland.

    Meaning, with lego you have a lot of freedom to build what you want (as long as you have the necessary pieces) while legoland is a very structured entertainment venue with everything already made for you to enjoy.

  • KiljaedenasKiljaedenas Member Posts: 468
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    You can't shape the terrain in eve either.

    The "terrain" is open space, plus the areas around planets-moons (and in one case directly on the moons). On that note, yes you can. Have you ever played Eve in Nullsec or wormhole space?

    -POS's (by far the most massive way of doing it)

    -Outposts+Sovreignty

    -Other nullsec structures such as Industrial Hubs to modify the output of a system.

    -Planetary Interaction

    -Warp disruption bubbles strategically placed between two gates to catch people trying to quickly burn through a system

     

    In fact, you can actually shape the terrain in the "safe" Hisec areas too through POS's and Planetary Interaction, though to a bit of a lesser degree. And when Dust 514 is eventually released that will deepen the aspects of PI even more.

    Where's the any key?

  • FaleshFalesh Member UncommonPosts: 78
    Originally posted by Phry

    The point is, its all about PvP, which makes the game a PvP orientated Themepark, a sandbox game wouldnt have that kind of focus, anyone who has played either Eve Online or SWG pre-NGE will know what i mean. It doesnt really matter what the scope is of the PVP in the game, which, despite using the word scope, in your argument, really doesnt list many factors, just 3 in fact, even Eve onlines PvP has much wider scope for PVP than that, the reason why this is the case, is because, DF;UW is not a sandbox game, it doesnt have the tools to support that kind of open ended gameplay, DFO didnt and the 'upgraded' version of DFO isnt really that much different from the original.image

     

    Darkfall is not only PvP, it also has exploration, PvE, crafting, trade and so on. You can start playing the game and stay in the NPC cities and gather, craft, PvE and trade if that is your thing. Or you can join others and take, build up and hold a city or hamlet. You can also decide to wage war with others and take their holdings. The game doesn't tell you which route to take, that is up to the player. Darkfall is a sandbox game.

    However, it is completely fair to say that it could have more sandbox features. But it will also be fair to say that about any sandbox game that will come out for some considerable time because I can't foresee any game coming out any time soon that allows the user to do anything they want.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by Falesh

    Darkfall is not only PvP, it also has exploration, PvE, crafting, trade and so on.

    ..like most themeparks do.

  • adam_noxadam_nox Member UncommonPosts: 2,148
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Darkfall doesn't have an endgame, like all sandboxes.

    this weird miconception of the word 'endgame' needs to stop.  endgame is ANY repeatable activity done at max level.  If there were no endgame, then there would literally be nothing to do, and that's obviously not the case. 

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