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F2P is Future - Micro-Transactions are Not
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So in essence it was you who failed to convey the message. Perhaps next time you will ask the person if you can post their name so peolpe can make up their own mind about the source. Just a small tip.
BBB complaints is a shakey tool at best... I agree to the percived value basis but the problem here is that it is the vocal minority who is more inclined to voice their opinion and they are also the one who are the most likley to be enraged by chnages in a game.
Also can you develop what he ment with freemium and give some examples, i know you brought up GW2 that i would not really class as a freemum game due to the lack of a subscription (nor is it any more F2P then any other game with micro -transactions)
This have been a good conversation
1.) I thought the message was pretty clear. As I mentioned in the OP, the discussion on micro-transations, was noted mainly in the gaming space but a lot of different companies, industries and business models were covered throughout the discussion.
2.) BBB complaints are not a shaky tool. Look at number of complaints before F2P and after. Same basis, different metrics.
3.) I never gave GW2 as an example (maybe someone else did). He noted various tiers of subscription being common or various extra services (I remember Skype being discussed at length on this one). I did note, in one post, about RNG shop items, but not GW2. And, as I mentioned, that wasn't a specific example in the discussion, just my clarification.
Lastly, for those of us that play MMOs, it is kind of hard to disagree with what was discussed. Most MMO players know this and thus why so many are jaded on the current titles coming from the industry or, more importantly, why so many are looking for the "next big thing". Kind of hard to miss this when there are so many constant, online discussions about this.
Sorry my bad, must have missread about GW2.
I still think that there are bits here that are missing, it feels like some key logicks of this have been left out in your post because i can not get it to fit together. A lot of why's and how's. But i agree to a degree that the Micro-Transaction market is still in development and will most likley change over the years just like any other makrket.
I would be curious to get his full opinion on RNG style items as these are in my opinion both the best selling (after all most people like to gamble) and the one that cause the most ire (few people like to loose).
Now as for BBB it is onyl relevant if you can put the increase in complaints to the actuall user numbers and see if there is a linear increasse (as i belive, if i were to simplify it to a size that fits this forum) or if it is non.linear (as is suggested here) or to put it simple, do you see more complaints due to the lower bar of entry or because a decline in service value. In this the reaserach you mentioned would be very helpful.
This have been a good conversation
F2p models work when they sell you things you want but dont actually need.
LIke paying for items up front instead of working through the game to obtain them.
Examples would be Champions in LoL, Guns & Classes in Tribes Ascend and Planetside 2 with XP/Resource boosts and gun unlocks.
Those three games can be played 100% for free without feeling like you have to break the bank to enjoy them.
Bad models are the ones that stick the good stuff behind a pay wall or ones that make content sub only even if you spend a thousand dollars in the CS.
Examples being Lotro with putting everything but the basic storylines behind a paywall and SWTOR taking basic game functionality away to lure people to subscribe.
These games leave a bad taste in the mouth of gamers and ultimately will fall as fast as they rose.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
Except with no actual references, names or anything of the kind, it's just an opinion piece. If Microtransactions are the worst business model, and venture capitalists are turning them away, why do they keep happening? If the people who controlled the money said, "No", it wouldn't happen.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Subscription models are the only models that do not make me feel like I'am being ripped off. Give me the whole game with all the perks, I will choose that over F2P options everytime. I don't want to buy content as needed, perks to get me better + anything, bank slots, character slots, anything that will give me the advatage over other players or anything for that matter.
Give me the whole game, update it regularly, fix stuff that is broke, add new stuff and I will pay you monthly until I no longer have fun in your game. Not sure why people hate this model, I think F2P cash shops ruined the genre.
I have gladly handed over money monthly to games like EQ, DAoC, WoW, EQ2, Rift and even SWtOR and have never felt like I was being ripped off. If or when the game stops satifying me in anyway, I cancel my sub and spend my money elsewhere.
Please tell Zynga they do it wrong..I think they missed your memo.
The problem with line of thinking is that many of these sub mmos also have a cash shop on top of the sub cost (hell SWTOR and EQ2 have F2P options). WoW for example will sell you account services like name changes, race changes, faction changes on top of things like mounts and companion pets. However, if you wanted more than the 11 character slots on a single server, there's no paying additional for that. If you want more bank space, you can't really buy that either, although there are in game options (functional but not very good imo).
Then take a game like GW2, which is B2P, I purchased 2 additional character slots and that was it. I can log in whenever I want, receive content updates and bug fixes, but without the additional cost of a monthly sub, and I don't feel the least bit ripped off.
Where the F2P/B2P model falls apart is when you run into crap like LotRO. You get some very basic gameplay options, but then have to nickle and dime your way to maximum content. It's designed to make it more attractive to just pay a sub. However, the problem is that if so few people were paying a sub to make the game go F2P, why would anyone choose to pick up a sub just to ungate the content that should be part of the F2P experience?
Am I the only one reading that freemium is the way to go? I disagree.
Every game that I see that is freemium I immediately walk away. Freemium was tagged on EQ2 and other SOE games. Which by my definition.
"Freemium is when you give people a choice to play a gimped character. If you make them angry enough, they will pay a sub to play the game how it was intended, with a normal character" -no name
Freemium seems to be just another way to rip people off by providing half a game and saying, "Hey, if you like the game when it's that bad, you'll love it if you pay for it"
BAAAAAH humbug freemium BAAAAAH HUMBUG!
I know some of the games now have the F2P options and other pay options but I only played them when they only had the sub model, I forgot to list LotRO in my first post, bought that game the day it came out and subbed for a few months.
I do have GW2 and spent money on character slots, bank slots and bag slots but to me that pay model is kind of sleezy. I do not like to have cash shop crap thrown in my face at all. Like I said before, I would rather pay a monthly fee and get the whole game instead of buying as I go. Just my preference.
If people want to pay for race changes and stuff like that I can see them charging for it, if your too lazy to just make another character and level it thats your own choice.
Yep and even SOE is moving away from that model. I guarantee that if the person the OP is citing is real, he has a financial interest in maintaining the freemium model in the marketplace.
I was also at this secret conference. Here is a photo of the speaker the OP is talking about. I managed to snag this photo with my phone just before they confiscated my camera.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
I agree, the sub is very viable.
People do it all the time and don't bat an eyelash.
Cable? Cell phone and data plans? Those are essentially subscriptions to a service.
The issue with the sub is that game companies are not giving players what they perceive as value for money.
It's hard to justify the $15 per month when, after a while, the content is exhaused and you have nothing to look forward to.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Cable, Cell and data plans are all great examples of base subscriptions with additional products and services available for a small fee - pay per view, extra IPs, extended text msg or bandwidth, hotspot usage, on demand video, additional phones/numbers. Lots of little extras you can buy above and beyond your subscription.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I do not see F2P being the norm from here on out, actually i see it going in the other direction with a twist. If a AAA MMO is good enough people will pay the monthy fee but ever games needs a try and buy feature because people have got burnt too many times, me included. F2P tells me it's a so so game and just not good enough to ask for a sub which actually kills the game for me right out of the gate. I can't really think of any F2P game that is that great, none. So i pretty much seeing things going like this in the market. New games need to have a Free timed period to play for free and try it out, 5 days, 10 days it doesn't matter. At that point I believe you will start to see the subs come down a little more, like that have in some markets, going from $15 monthly to maybe $10 or even $5 per month. Either way i see the B2P or sub base models as being the norm, F2P just really sucks.
Peace
Lascer
It would be interesting to see how he defines the different payment models.
Freemium as most players know is nothing more than a cash shop option that lifts some restrictions, but after reading a few of your other posts he seems to describe it as a trial period.
I am not surprised at all with his speech. Most of the " F2P is future " statements have come with absolutely zero data to back it up. You won't even find a source to the article stating that LOTRO profits soared after it's cash shop conversion. All the articles use another article as a reference.
The trend seems to be Freemium, as offering several payment options has proven rather successful for several MMOs so far. However it's entirely possible that due to GW2's current success we'll start seeing more devs try to do F2P with a retail box as it allows them to gain a large return early on as well as maintain a higher ARPU.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
So...an appeal-to-authority argument, but without an authority.
Those don't work so gud.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
So he was giving his opinion... you know what they say about opinions correct?
One thing rules the world of business. If the companies with the micro-transactions are making money, they will continue.. if not, they will shut down. The business model of the future will follow the money as it always has.
Always easier to just link the blog. :shrug:
The Authorities (even when one exists) often don't have any 'cred' to speak of either, other then the ability to slay an audience in a Holiday Inn conference room with a lengthy powerpoint. They're French models, too. "Bon Jour."
But dammit, too "can't say anything on the internet that isn't true" damn cynical again. Sorry folks
Nothing wrong with his opinions.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
At the moment I am playing EQ2 for free but have used triple SC weekends to build enough SC for what I want or need.
Micro-transactions aren't the source of EA's bad reputation. EA's bad reputation predated the World Wide Web. If a bad reputation were enough to make a company unprofitable, then how has EA survived with one for decades?
And Turbine now has a dirt reputation? That's news to me. A number of companies attract quite a bit of hatred around here, but Turbine doesn't seem to be one of them.
Games typically do lose customers as time passes. Even the really good games do. The best that a game can realistically hope for is to grow by word of mouth for a while so that it doesn't start a clear downhill slide in customer numbers until a few years after launch.
But the real question isn't whether a game has an item mall. Rather, it's what is in the item mall. I think the ideal solution is an optional subscription fee that gives you everything that most people would care about, and then an option to play a restricted free trial or buy access to some things without paying a subscription.
There is no data to support your claim, except WOW.
Even despite what was said in the article, F2P has grown, in market share and revenue, in the US in teh last few years. When people are faced with many alternatives, it is just natural not wanting to commit to $15 a month on a single game.
Sub is certainly not that future.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
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