so a game that already charges a sub to play, now wants kickstarter money
Blizzard announces WOW kickstarter for next expansion
Its rather pathetic and sad, that money could be better spent on more viable projects. Thats all the genre needs, every failed/struggling MMO looking for a hand out at the expense of others.
Well, you guys don't wanna pay monthly fee's anymore, it all has to be F2P now. They need to get money from you somehow, it is a business. You guys won't be happy until the whole MMO space disapears, then you'll br crying about it once it's gone. "Man, what happened to all the MMO's? Oh yeah, we sucked them all dry until there was nothing left."
I don't get you guys, cry because there a monthly sub, cry because it's F2P, then cry when they start a kickstarter campaign.
However, saying all that, I do agree that money should be spent on better things, BUT, it's not Dev's of Xyson fault. Even if there were better projects on Kickstarter, who would pledge? People are selfish these days, they would rather pledge towards something they can have, instead of pledging and helping someone else.
You are referring to everyone on this forum when you say "you people" are you not? The world doesn't revolve around you my friend.
so a game that already charges a sub to play, now wants kickstarter money
Blizzard announces WOW kickstarter for next expansion
Its rather pathetic and sad, that money could be better spent on more viable projects. Thats all the genre needs, every failed/struggling MMO looking for a hand out at the expense of others.
Well, you guys don't wanna pay monthly fee's anymore, it all has to be F2P now. They need to get money from you somehow, it is a business. You guys won't be happy until the whole MMO space disapears, then you'll br crying about it once it's gone. "Man, what happened to all the MMO's? Oh yeah, we sucked them all dry until there was nothing left."
I don't get you guys, cry because there a monthly sub, cry because it's F2P, then cry when they start a kickstarter campaign.
However, saying all that, I do agree that money should be spent on better things, BUT, it's not Dev's of Xyson fault. Even if there were better projects on Kickstarter, who would pledge? People are selfish these days, they would rather pledge towards something they can have, instead of pledging and helping someone else.
I dont know where you got this idea. You can search every single post I have ever posted, I have never once bashed a sub model for being a sub model. I bash f2p that does require what is known as pay2win. I dont bash TSW which I have a lifetime sub for having a cash shop either. I think all gaming companies should be able to try to make a living, however, doing a kickstarter for a game that is already launched, and charging a sub is just too much. Where is all the money from the subs going?
Its a garbage game regardless, but this just adds too it
Guess people aren't being too forgiving here, eh? Can't blme any of them eiter. I got suckered in to this game when it first released. I'm not wasting 2 more months on my life on it again.
This game, looking at it, still hasn't lived up to the promises it made when it first came out. Now they want more money to continue bailing themselves out of this sinking ship. Money to buy a product twith features that the original was already supposed to include.
Funny how a game like DayZ can do so well despite being a mod, but a full game like this fails miserably.
I can understand all the negativism about the game. I'm not sure if the Kickstarter campaign, and the goal of it are right or not. I can only say that I see great potential in Xsyon, and I would be very happy if it succeeds.
For what it is - a game made by few, I think, it's very well made. But it needs a lot more to become a real MMO. As in it current state of development it is more of a building simulator than a complete complex world with politics and warfare.
I think the whole kickstarter concept is an insult to business and an insult to those that invest. I wish it would go away. Not only does it give undeserving people rediculous amounts of funding.. it is unfair to those that are investing.
In normal business anyone that invests has a stake in that project and continues to earn money back if it is successful. Sure, it's optional to invest on kickstarter.. investing has always been optional.. but people are only willingly doing so in this way because they havn't seen the light.. these are naive investors that don't realise they 'should' be intitled to proper investments laws, procedures and regulations. It skips the laws because they use the word 'donate'. Any decent company would, and should be made to, give investors a return on their investment in the real world; give money back.. not some crappy virtual items or your name on an ingame monument. Investors are entitled to it. In this situation, donate is world's away from what they are really doing. You donate to charities or non profit companies (like freeware software developers).. you invest in companies that use your money to make money.
250k.. That's life changing cash! They might get it for absolutely nothing and then use it to make even MORE money for themselves. It should be making money for those that gave it AND those that use it. It's a joke....
While I basically agree with you, you have to remember that those donating are adults, making their own desicions about what to do with their own money. If someone wants to donate thousands of $ to failed games like Xsyon or MO (which didn't even go through Kickstarter but started their own donation system), it's his own choice. No one is forcing anybody, and the whole thing is straightforward - you "invest" at your own risk. It doesn't make said person less of a fool, but hey, there's one born every minute, so...
That said, I think it's ridiculous that Kickstarter accepts a game like Xsyon - it lanched two years ago, it costs money to purchase and charges a monthly fee. It's an actual business now, not a project that needs to get "kickstarted" through crowdfunding. If it can't make ends meet then too bad, but begging for more money just looks pathetic.
On a general level I think the whole KS thing has gone out of hand; it seems like new ambitious MMOs are popping up like mushrooms all over the place, and there are plenty of naïve dreamers who are happy to throw money at them just because they promise some revolutionary stuff or claim to be the next UO or whatever.
There will probably be a backlash soon, when many of these projects don't deliver and people start to feel bamboozled. Which is a shame too, since it will hurt the legit indie devs who use KS to make actual, working products.
I think the whole kickstarter concept is an insult to business and an insult to those that invest. I wish it would go away. Not only does it give undeserving people rediculous amounts of funding.. it is unfair to those that are investing.
In normal business anyone that invests has a stake in that project and continues to earn money back if it is successful. Sure, it's optional to invest on kickstarter.. investing has always been optional.. but people are only willingly doing so in this way because they havn't seen the light.. these are naive investors that don't realise they 'should' be intitled to proper investments laws, procedures and regulations. It skips the laws because they use the word 'donate'. Any decent company would, and should be made to, give investors a return on their investment in the real world; give money back.. not some crappy virtual items or your name on an ingame monument. Investors are entitled to it. In this situation, donate is world's away from what they are really doing. You donate to charities or non profit companies (like freeware software developers).. you invest in companies that use your money to make money.
250k.. That's life changing cash! They might get it for absolutely nothing and then use it to make even MORE money for themselves. It should be making money for those that gave it AND those that use it. It's a joke....
That said, I think it's ridiculous that Kickstarter accepts a game like Xsyon - it lanched two years ago, it costs money to purchase and charges a monthly fee. It's an actual business now, not a project that needs to get "kickstarted" through crowdfunding. If it can't make ends meet then too bad, but begging for more money just looks pathetic.
Kickstart just wants their 5% $$$ and Jordi has no shame.
Originally posted by Hancakes: Kickstart just wants their 5% $$$ and Jordi has no shame.
True. It's just a capitalistic business as any other. They are after their fast profit no matter what. As in any other business scheme - as long as there are enough suckers to maintain profit - it will continue to exists.
I can't believe they thought this would go through. 250k is hardly even viable for some popular companies, let alone a 4 man team spread across the world that made a game that almost nobody plays. I'm glad they made it free, but I still have concerns that their vision is too much for them. This alone pushed my concerns almost to the point where I can't watch because it's going to crash and burn.
I think the whole kickstarter concept is an insult to business and an insult to those that invest. I wish it would go away. Not only does it give undeserving people rediculous amounts of funding.. it is unfair to those that are investing.
In normal business anyone that invests has a stake in that project and continues to earn money back if it is successful. Sure, it's optional to invest on kickstarter.. investing has always been optional.. but people are only willingly doing so in this way because they havn't seen the light.. these are naive investors that don't realise they 'should' be intitled to proper investments laws, procedures and regulations. It skips the laws because they use the word 'donate'. Any decent company would, and should be made to, give investors a return on their investment in the real world; give money back.. not some crappy virtual items or your name on an ingame monument. Investors are entitled to it. In this situation, donate is world's away from what they are really doing. You donate to charities or non profit companies (like freeware software developers).. you invest in companies that use your money to make money.
250k.. That's life changing cash! They might get it for absolutely nothing and then use it to make even MORE money for themselves. It should be making money for those that gave it AND those that use it. It's a joke....
It is called crowd funding. Also "real" investor do often invest wrongly as well and give millions to undeserved causes. It's not a joke. Why do you care what people do with there money? Donating has nothing to do with characty, but there are also plently of these kinds of project on KS.
Infact if your "real" investors would actually invest in stuff gamers wanted. We would not need KS, now would we?
I'll pledge 100 like I did for Star Citizen and Elite.
Xsyon is a great project I like the devs
You'd be wasting your time, Xyson gets nothing without reaching the $250000 goal. If Xsyon can hold its current donation rate it'll take them 1.65 years to reach the goal. Alas, they only have 25 days left.
Furthermore, "great" games need charity to fund development???
14 days in and Xsyon only needs $244,004.00 more in the next 26 days. At this rate, they'll only reach 4-5% of the goal.
it's obvious it failed.
donations decline in rate as time passes.
Depends on how close you get. I've seen some kickstarters get half their goal on the last day. Not that I think Xsyon will.
That's because it's cost effective for the people seeking funds to put up their own money. (through shell/third party)
Example.
Kickstarter XYZ has a goal of $250,000, but their donations are only at say $150,000 with one day to go. All they have to do is come up with $100,000 (which they'll get back) to make $137,500 Profit (5% fee subtracted)
Worst part is, many people dont expect the game to reach the goal when they're donating.
so $250k to hire a second developer (doubling the staff) and keep the game running for a bit longer.
Sadly this game was one of the many indy developer makes sandbox with great feature list, which is executed horribly with unstable client, horrid combat, and a several year development time where not much happens.
if this game were to get into a postion where crafted stuff is useful, and doesnt just sit in baskets, and totems/structures/terraforming actually served more than a visual use. Perhaps this game could get some steam behind it.
The largest mistake these indy developers make is choosing to add features first then content and good combat later.
Had this game went with perfecting combat, client stablility and a reason to combat ( good pve combat and territorial clan warfare) then they would have had time, players, and money to make all the features work.
Too many indy developers think that a large community of supporters will stick by the game while combat is crap, gameplay is boring, and theres some cool features with no purpose yet. People did support this game but development took years and people grew tired of waiting on the game they were promised, same thing happend to MO, Earthrise, Dawntide...probably forgetting a few here.
Only reason a game like Darkfall survived despite the same shoddy developers and infinite development time, is because combat was playable and fun, and the client worked more than it didnt. People put up with for years darkfalls snail pace development because there was fun combat, fun pve, and still the game wont have decent sandbox features...but got its upgrade.
No doubt about it, this game is marked for death, and soon.
Had this game went with perfecting combat, client stablility and a reason to combat ( good pve combat and territorial clan warfare) then they would have had time, players, and money to make all the features work.
No doubt about it, this game is marked for death, and soon.
Couldnt agree more, Jordi sadly listened to the wrong players.
They loose all the money and go poof. Another game bites the dust.
I just went and checked they have a total of 62 backers for 8,711 dollars. That means hard fail. That means on average folks paid 141 dollars each. Talk about sad.
So the real question is since only 62 folks paid for kickstater, and I went and read the official forums and it seams most of the comments were like that is too much money to ask for.
So the real question is since only 62 folks paid for kickstater, and I went and read the official forums and it seams most of the comments were like that is too much money to ask for.
Appears Jordi was in worse financial shape than many assumed. Personally I thought the kickstarter failing would mean the glacial pace of development would continue with his contract Russian slave labor. Alas, he has announced that he will continue Xsyon as the sole coder.
People got upset when several of us, back in August, cynically told others that they wouldn't see the features next in line for development until December or early January. Seems we were far too liberal with our timetable. Good luck seeing cooking and agriculture anytime this year (2013).
"If MMORPG players were around when God said, "Let their be light" they'd have called the light gay, and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it." -Luke McKinney, The 7 Biggest Dick Moves in the History of Online Gaming
"In the end, SWG may have been more potential and promise than fulfilled expectation. But I'd rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity." -Raph Koster
Comments
You are referring to everyone on this forum when you say "you people" are you not? The world doesn't revolve around you my friend.
I dont know where you got this idea. You can search every single post I have ever posted, I have never once bashed a sub model for being a sub model. I bash f2p that does require what is known as pay2win. I dont bash TSW which I have a lifetime sub for having a cash shop either. I think all gaming companies should be able to try to make a living, however, doing a kickstarter for a game that is already launched, and charging a sub is just too much. Where is all the money from the subs going?
Its a garbage game regardless, but this just adds too it
Guess people aren't being too forgiving here, eh? Can't blme any of them eiter. I got suckered in to this game when it first released. I'm not wasting 2 more months on my life on it again.
This game, looking at it, still hasn't lived up to the promises it made when it first came out. Now they want more money to continue bailing themselves out of this sinking ship. Money to buy a product twith features that the original was already supposed to include.
Funny how a game like DayZ can do so well despite being a mod, but a full game like this fails miserably.
I can understand all the negativism about the game. I'm not sure if the Kickstarter campaign, and the goal of it are right or not. I can only say that I see great potential in Xsyon, and I would be very happy if it succeeds.
For what it is - a game made by few, I think, it's very well made. But it needs a lot more to become a real MMO. As in it current state of development it is more of a building simulator than a complete complex world with politics and warfare.
I wish Xsyon luck.
While I basically agree with you, you have to remember that those donating are adults, making their own desicions about what to do with their own money. If someone wants to donate thousands of $ to failed games like Xsyon or MO (which didn't even go through Kickstarter but started their own donation system), it's his own choice. No one is forcing anybody, and the whole thing is straightforward - you "invest" at your own risk. It doesn't make said person less of a fool, but hey, there's one born every minute, so...
That said, I think it's ridiculous that Kickstarter accepts a game like Xsyon - it lanched two years ago, it costs money to purchase and charges a monthly fee. It's an actual business now, not a project that needs to get "kickstarted" through crowdfunding. If it can't make ends meet then too bad, but begging for more money just looks pathetic.
On a general level I think the whole KS thing has gone out of hand; it seems like new ambitious MMOs are popping up like mushrooms all over the place, and there are plenty of naïve dreamers who are happy to throw money at them just because they promise some revolutionary stuff or claim to be the next UO or whatever.
There will probably be a backlash soon, when many of these projects don't deliver and people start to feel bamboozled. Which is a shame too, since it will hurt the legit indie devs who use KS to make actual, working products.
Kickstart just wants their 5% $$$ and Jordi has no shame.
True. It's just a capitalistic business as any other. They are after their fast profit no matter what. As in any other business scheme - as long as there are enough suckers to maintain profit - it will continue to exists.
14 days in and Xsyon only needs $244,004.00 more in the next 26 days. At this rate, they'll only reach 4-5% of the goal.
I'll pledge 100 like I did for Star Citizen and Elite.
Xsyon is a great project I like the devs
Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw
Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.
.
The Return of ELITE !
Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw
Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.
.
The Return of ELITE !
It is called crowd funding. Also "real" investor do often invest wrongly as well and give millions to undeserved causes. It's not a joke. Why do you care what people do with there money? Donating has nothing to do with characty, but there are also plently of these kinds of project on KS.
Infact if your "real" investors would actually invest in stuff gamers wanted. We would not need KS, now would we?
You'd be wasting your time, Xyson gets nothing without reaching the $250000 goal. If Xsyon can hold its current donation rate it'll take them 1.65 years to reach the goal. Alas, they only have 25 days left.
Furthermore, "great" games need charity to fund development???
That's because it's cost effective for the people seeking funds to put up their own money. (through shell/third party)
Example.
Kickstarter XYZ has a goal of $250,000, but their donations are only at say $150,000 with one day to go. All they have to do is come up with $100,000 (which they'll get back) to make $137,500 Profit (5% fee subtracted)
Worst part is, many people dont expect the game to reach the goal when they're donating.
so $250k to hire a second developer (doubling the staff) and keep the game running for a bit longer.
Sadly this game was one of the many indy developer makes sandbox with great feature list, which is executed horribly with unstable client, horrid combat, and a several year development time where not much happens.
if this game were to get into a postion where crafted stuff is useful, and doesnt just sit in baskets, and totems/structures/terraforming actually served more than a visual use. Perhaps this game could get some steam behind it.
The largest mistake these indy developers make is choosing to add features first then content and good combat later.
Had this game went with perfecting combat, client stablility and a reason to combat ( good pve combat and territorial clan warfare) then they would have had time, players, and money to make all the features work.
Too many indy developers think that a large community of supporters will stick by the game while combat is crap, gameplay is boring, and theres some cool features with no purpose yet. People did support this game but development took years and people grew tired of waiting on the game they were promised, same thing happend to MO, Earthrise, Dawntide...probably forgetting a few here.
Only reason a game like Darkfall survived despite the same shoddy developers and infinite development time, is because combat was playable and fun, and the client worked more than it didnt. People put up with for years darkfalls snail pace development because there was fun combat, fun pve, and still the game wont have decent sandbox features...but got its upgrade.
No doubt about it, this game is marked for death, and soon.
Couldnt agree more, Jordi sadly listened to the wrong players.
They loose all the money and go poof. Another game bites the dust.
I just went and checked they have a total of 62 backers for 8,711 dollars. That means hard fail. That means on average folks paid 141 dollars each. Talk about sad.
Best Kickstarter video EVER!
Its like a fat man trying to do a boyband video. WTB DOWNLOAD
Edit: For anyone that doesnt want to look at the kickstarter page, ripped the vid and uploaded to youtube.
http://youtu.be/a0_ElfGLq9I
So the real question is since only 62 folks paid for kickstater, and I went and read the official forums and it seams most of the comments were like that is too much money to ask for.
what kind of player base is left
Double digit online prior to F2P.
It failed.
Of the $250K they were seeking, they only received $8,871 in pledges, less than 4% of what they were looking for.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/382040989/xsyon-apocalypse
Not sure how this is going to impact the development or survival of the game.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Shocker
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5438525#5438525
Appears Jordi was in worse financial shape than many assumed. Personally I thought the kickstarter failing would mean the glacial pace of development would continue with his contract Russian slave labor. Alas, he has announced that he will continue Xsyon as the sole coder.
People got upset when several of us, back in August, cynically told others that they wouldn't see the features next in line for development until December or early January. Seems we were far too liberal with our timetable. Good luck seeing cooking and agriculture anytime this year (2013).
"If MMORPG players were around when God said, "Let their be light" they'd have called the light gay, and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it."
-Luke McKinney, The 7 Biggest Dick Moves in the History of Online Gaming
"In the end, SWG may have been more potential and promise than fulfilled expectation. But I'd rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
-Raph Koster