Originally posted by LadyEuphei There is a system in order to prevent griefing. If you are 5 levels apart you can not attack eachother. It is possible for a level 5 to camp the first dungeon but you cant be attacked until your Soul level 2, if you dont want to be able to be attacked you dont have to raise your soul level but you can only get to character level 7. Please play the game and read the forums, there is alot of interesting and helpful tidbits in there.
Since the game was on NDA i wasn't sure if this could be added, thought here is one thing, i never, ever found their forums, it's hidden, very, very hidden.
But yes there is a newbie protection up to level 7 unless youve already ranked to soul 2, since it affect all your characters, that means if you are soul rank 2 and you make a level 1 character, this level 1 character isn't protected, afterward you cross your fingers.
I don't see whats the point of being so angry about what I said and attacking me and shit.
Just don't play the game if you think that you will quit because of pkers.
I am not angry nor attacking you, i am saying that your statements lacks credibility, there's videos justifying what will happen, and the game is here to experience it if a player still needs convincing after what has been posted here, just try to give some muscle behind your statements, that's all.
Alright.
I saw those videos, and nothing stops you from calling your guild for help, or even calling anyone in town for help.
In the videos they show people getting killed just 2 steps from exiting the dungeon. They are also 2 steps from reinforcement.
This is how those games are played, in team. You need a group to venture into hard dungeon because of both the players and the dungeon itself. It's not perfect but I personally think wizardry online is heading into a good direction.
those videos are just noobs pwning other noobs imo.
I'm not trying to proove you wrong, your right, people will quit over it if they dont have the necessary allies. They will also quit without the necessary allies to pve, both come together.
I want everyone reading this thread to know thats its not a 100% bad situation, even if theres no griefing at all on the american servers it may come someday but i still think the game has everything in place to counter those griefers. So I'm telling people to try it out instead of not playing because of others people opinion.
Wizadry is all very reminicent of Ultima Online back in the day. Pk's were just another danger in the game that you had to deal with or avoid. I never met one I didnt hate but quit a game over it? No way.
I want everyone reading this thread to know thats its not a 100% bad situation, even if theres no griefing at all on the american servers it may come someday but i still think the game has everything in place to counter those griefers. So I'm telling people to try it out instead of not playing because of others people opinion.
This is true, i was reluctant, but i took the time to try it, and i don't see myself sticking to it, because the bad is overweighting the good in my personal experience.
Originally posted by Iczer
Wizadry is all very reminicent of Ultima Online back in the day. Pk's were just another danger in the game that you had to deal with or avoid. I never met one I didnt hate but quit a game over it? No way.
Some people will persist and stubborn over it, but that's not everyone, you aren't the center of the universe, you aren't the hive queen ordering it's bees, if you want to play through it, go ahead, but you can't just image everyone agreeing with what you think about it, just as some people don't agree with what i am saying.
I don't see whats the point of being so angry about what I said and attacking me and shit.
Just don't play the game if you think that you will quit because of pkers.
I am not angry nor attacking you, i am saying that your statements lacks credibility, there's videos justifying what will happen, and the game is here to experience it if a player still needs convincing after what has been posted here, just try to give some muscle behind your statements, that's all.
I'd present to you that the game has been live in Japan for about a year now and it's still going strong with a healthy playerbase and regular updates, but no amount of proofs are going to change your deniance of how things are actually happening in the game. Yes, someone made a video of PKing. Surprisingly, that happens in a PVP game now and then. However, don't let fact and history get in the way of assumption and panic. Keep fighting the good fight.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I'd present to you that the game has been live in Japan for about a year now and it's still going strong with a healthy playerbase and regular updates, but no amount of proofs are going to change your deniance of how things are actually happening in the game. Yes, someone made a video of PKing. Surprisingly, that happens in a PVP game now and then. However, don't let fact and history get in the way of assumption and panic. Keep fighting the good fight.
Can we agree with a few points there? Japan has a -lot- of people, and can we agree that most games comes from Asia? Can we also agree that Asia mentality is very different than ours?
Now putting those things together, can we agree that the results might not be the same in the other countries? My personal opinion of the game is that PK shouldn't be forced upon the game where perma death is looming, to give both choices, as posted in my first post, it doesn't have to be done, and maybe it won't be done, but i sure as hell would be happy to play it if PvP was out of my way in this game.
Wizadry is all very reminicent of Ultima Online back in the day. Pk's were just another danger in the game that you had to deal with or avoid. I never met one I didnt hate but quit a game over it? No way.
Some people will persist and stubborn over it, but that's not everyone, you aren't the center of the universe, you aren't the hive queen ordering it's bees, if you want to play through it, go ahead, but you can't just image everyone agreeing with what you think about it, just as some people don't agree with what i am saying.
i need nor expect anyone to agree with me, i was meerly commenting on its similarity to UO and stating my personal preference to sticking it out when faced with PK's.
Heres a link to the forums for those who couldn't find it ( honestly not so hidden if you have beta access )
This post is about grifeing and shit.
I'm not sure how you manually access the forum, i've searched on their web site, i just can't find it.
Forum link should also be in the email you got from SOE. If not, just bookmark the above.
Olalonde, excellent thread to point him to.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Forum link should also be in the email you got from SOE. If not, just bookmark the above.
Olalonde, excellent thread to point him to.
Yes, i agree, this is a very good thread, i've just finished reading it, and i sincerely hope things will work out past closed beta, right now, the griefers are out in force, most likely due to the fact that they know they will get wiped either ways.
Originally posted by Rilman That's not how it works in reality, there's souls that don't lose your skills, you lose a body and some gear but you can re-use the soul in another char so its not really true perma death.
That ain't gonna stop people from wanting to stop playing if they get griefed.
There may be some issues with the system, but if some people are going to "give up" the first time they get PK'd then you have to question quite why those people have picked out the game in the first place.
Good point. Best not to play such a game in the first place. Perma death and open PvP have no appeal what so ever to me.
Wizadry is all very reminicent of Ultima Online back in the day. Pk's were just another danger in the game that you had to deal with or avoid. I never met one I didnt hate but quit a game over it? No way.
-Iczer
I actually played UO back in the day... There was a damn good reason that Trammel came about. The ganking and griefing was totally out of control. People started leaving in droves. Way too many people (including Dev's and publishers) keep forgetting the difference between the Western and Asian markets. The modern western markets have MUCH less toleration for ganking and griefing. Games that allow (much less encourage) ganking and griefing, seriously niche themselves.
I don't see whats the point of being so angry about what I said and attacking me and shit.
Just don't play the game if you think that you will quit because of pkers.
I am not angry nor attacking you, i am saying that your statements lacks credibility, there's videos justifying what will happen, and the game is here to experience it if a player still needs convincing after what has been posted here, just try to give some muscle behind your statements, that's all.
I'd present to you that the game has been live in Japan for about a year now and it's still going strong with a healthy playerbase and regular updates, but no amount of proofs are going to change your deniance of how things are actually happening in the game. Yes, someone made a video of PKing. Surprisingly, that happens in a PVP game now and then. However, don't let fact and history get in the way of assumption and panic. Keep fighting the good fight.
Japan is not typical of the modern western market. Neither are most other parts of Asia. Look at the success of various games in the different markets, and look at the different demographics involved.
Permadeath in this game is almost non existant though. I don't have much thrill from playing it as I do playing hc path of exile or hc diablo. Just saying you might not be missing much. =P
Permadeath in this game is almost non existant though. I don't have much thrill from playing it as I do playing hc path of exile or hc diablo. Just saying you might not be missing much. =P
Ahh but the topic wasn't about perma death, it was about PvP, perma death is something that is already established before you even start to play.
Originally posted by Drakaden Originally posted by UzikQQThere are plenty of non-PK games out there for cry babies who weep at the thought of lost pixels.
Thank you for sharing this non-constructive pearl of wisdom with us.
Yes we know there are plenty of those out there, it doesn't prevent people from discussing the flaws in this game.
But this is not a flaw, it's a deliberate design decision made by developer. From my understanding they are very direct about owPvP, PK, and permanent death, so you can make decision before even trying this game.
There are plenty of non-PK games out there for cry babies who weep at the thought of lost pixels.
I don't agree with the use of QQ or name callin, but he's right. The fact is, it's a PvP game. Deal with it. Go play something else if you can't. I'm not a pker, but I don't like dull games.
I'm just so damn tired of people latching onto a game that says it's an open PvP game, only to say PvP's going to ruin the game, or ask for some PvE only server bull shit.
If you get killed once and you quit, well then you probably shouldn't be playing a hard core game. You can make threats about leaving all you want, we know you're going to be playing the game for your weekly total of half an hour. Isn't it great when casuals come and try to change a game? You know they're going to quit in 5 more play sessions anyways, if they ever get that far.
I mostly agree with you guys in regard to the fact this game is pretty open about its PvP and Permadeath situation. The fact a PvE server was even requested shows a disconnect from what the game is made for. BUT, I will say that it doesn't mean that its using a perfect system either. The by and large issue with most PvP games is disparity between players. Guild Wars is on the best end of the spectrum, being a game designed around PvP with the most sense of balance. On the other end, the bad end, we have F2P games with a high pay to win tolerance. EVE falls closer to GW...there is still great disparity in regard to players with more skill training having an advantage, but it still leaves options open to new players so that they CAN contribute in a meaninful way. Thats the real question. Does this game offer new players a way to contribute meaningfully, or are newbies simply fodder?
Because if they are just fodder, well....
The system is garbage. End of story. The game is a flop. What makes EVE a successful game with its cutthroat design is that a fresh player can quickly specialize in something that will make him useful and desirable to functioning guilds (corps). So they WANT him, and WANT to help him. He provides something to him. If a player is just fodder, it makes him unimportant to vets. They want players who can help keep them alive. Dropping everything and placing themselves in danger for someone that matters not at all to them is not exactly likely. So you have a legion of players constantly starting over and barely ever making skill progress, (to such a point that other players need and want them and care) and another group that is established and takes care of each other. There is nothing to foster further community building.
Now, at first, this causes nothing noticable. Over time, player leave. Most won't enjoy sitting at the bottom of the ladder for long. The same trend happens to FPS games. On release there is high chance of meeting players worse than you. 2 months later you feel like you are only playing the best of the best and losing a ton more. The weak links leave, which then makes better players suddenly the weakest players. Its a bleeding loss, and its not something FPS games notice as much because of how saturated the market is with them. Take Call of Duty, each year a new one comes out. That coincides nicely with the point at which the weak link bleed would have started to make the game annoying to play.
I digress, I rambled more than I needed to here. Those of you playing, could you answer my question though? Is there a meaningful way for the youngling player to contribute in this game? Or is it just a giant screwing until you luck your way to high skill levels and can finally fight back a little? One of those I'd at least try and be open minded with. The other I'll dodge like the plauge and never look back.
I digress, I rambled more than I needed to here. Those of you playing, could you answer my question though? Is there a meaningful way for the youngling player to contribute in this game? Or is it just a giant screwing until you luck your way to high skill levels and can finally fight back a little? One of those I'd at least try and be open minded with. The other I'll dodge like the plauge and never look back.
I would say, from my experience, that you start as not very valuable, since your character cannot go in places where the high levels would needs you to be, and you wouldn't have the survivability to go with, they could invest time in you so you can get to their levels, but that's fairly time consuming, they would rather find someone around their level in order to progress i think, unlike a FPS game, this game is level/gear/class skills based, so, there's no way a level 1 can possibly help a level 20 in their quests/monsters hunts for example, unless this level 1 is an alt of a level 20 that already unlocked those dungeons, then he can follow (I think? Would need confirmed), but it's still a level 1 with low survivability, so you would mostly just be 1 hit fodder.
What makes a successful game with its cutthroat design is that a fresh player can quickly specialize in something that will make him useful and desirable to functioning guilds (corps). So they WANT him, and WANT to help him. He provides something to him. If a player is just fodder, it makes him unimportant to vets. They want players who can help keep them alive. Dropping everything and placing themselves in danger for someone that matters not at all to them is not exactly likely. So you have a legion of players constantly starting over and barely ever making skill progress, (to such a point that other players need and want them and care) and another group that is established and takes care of each other. There is nothing to foster further community building
This is a good point. It's not completely true in Wizardry Online's case though. You're not useful at low levels unless your a thief but you can get powered leveled or rush to a certain point VERY quickly and alot of things counter balance that feeling of being last of the ladder like max level difference for instance. At low level your useless, but you can faster become useful. For example I play warrior and my friend plays priest, and my 3rd friend (who actually started playing yesterday ) is level 1 thief or mage I think. I will not power level him for his first time but ill give him tips and run to him as soon as pks show up, wich is a good trade off compared to grouping with him and rushing him through quests considered how close dungeons are to each other. I'm hoping guild will do the same for new members. We need thief to disarm traps and open chests, wich will make a huge difference, even if hes low level. The only question is: does he want to skip content just to start playing with us faster ? There are lots of reasons to want to help someone get rid of a pk such as bounty and looting his corpse.
Theres also this NEAT soul level system wich at for example I am soul lvl 3, I can wear soul level 3 gear on all my alts ( on this soul) as well as earn a 50% bonus exp from monsters and quests, as well as having all dungeons unlocked and cleared ( with maps available). What I'm saying is making an alt is so fast and soul exp keeps going towards your main its very much worth it to help a friend this way instead of using your main.
Originally posted by UzikQQThere are plenty of non-PK games out there for cry babies who weep at the thought of lost pixels.
Thank you for sharing this non-constructive pearl of wisdom with us.
Yes we know there are plenty of those out there, it doesn't prevent people from discussing the flaws in this game.
But this is not a flaw, it's a deliberate design decision made by developer. From my understanding they are very direct about owPvP, PK, and permanent death, so you can make decision before even trying this game.
In his mind, if the features are not designed specifically for him, then the game is flawed. He's not unique in that view. That kind of thinking is rather pervasive here. Worse, they can't let it go as not being for them, they have to 'warn' others abvout it, as well.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I keep seeing people mention "but Japan is different". Erm so what? I wasn't aware this game replete with PD and PKing was being aimed at the generic, mass Euro/US casual market audience.
Amazingly enough there are players outside of Asia who are actually interested in such systems. What the games performance in Japan demonstrates is that the mechanics are potentially viable for players actually interested in said mechanics in the first place.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
So why not go to the extreme since this is an extreme game--ganking a player under your level, or maybe under some level range, will result in your character not being able to be revived (0% chance) if you die while red. See? Easy peasy.
Comments
Since the game was on NDA i wasn't sure if this could be added, thought here is one thing, i never, ever found their forums, it's hidden, very, very hidden.
But yes there is a newbie protection up to level 7 unless youve already ranked to soul 2, since it affect all your characters, that means if you are soul rank 2 and you make a level 1 character, this level 1 character isn't protected, afterward you cross your fingers.
Alright.
I saw those videos, and nothing stops you from calling your guild for help, or even calling anyone in town for help.
In the videos they show people getting killed just 2 steps from exiting the dungeon. They are also 2 steps from reinforcement.
This is how those games are played, in team. You need a group to venture into hard dungeon because of both the players and the dungeon itself. It's not perfect but I personally think wizardry online is heading into a good direction.
those videos are just noobs pwning other noobs imo.
I'm not trying to proove you wrong, your right, people will quit over it if they dont have the necessary allies. They will also quit without the necessary allies to pve, both come together.
I want everyone reading this thread to know thats its not a 100% bad situation, even if theres no griefing at all on the american servers it may come someday but i still think the game has everything in place to counter those griefers. So I'm telling people to try it out instead of not playing because of others people opinion.
Wizadry is all very reminicent of Ultima Online back in the day. Pk's were just another danger in the game that you had to deal with or avoid. I never met one I didnt hate but quit a game over it? No way.
-Iczer
This is true, i was reluctant, but i took the time to try it, and i don't see myself sticking to it, because the bad is overweighting the good in my personal experience.
Some people will persist and stubborn over it, but that's not everyone, you aren't the center of the universe, you aren't the hive queen ordering it's bees, if you want to play through it, go ahead, but you can't just image everyone agreeing with what you think about it, just as some people don't agree with what i am saying.
I'd present to you that the game has been live in Japan for about a year now and it's still going strong with a healthy playerbase and regular updates, but no amount of proofs are going to change your deniance of how things are actually happening in the game. Yes, someone made a video of PKing. Surprisingly, that happens in a PVP game now and then. However, don't let fact and history get in the way of assumption and panic. Keep fighting the good fight.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
http://forums.station.sony.com/wo/index.php?threads/wizardry-onlines-criminal-justice-system-criminals-beware-feedback-appreciated.497/
Heres a link to the forums for those who couldn't find it ( honestly not so hidden if you have beta access )
This post is about grifeing and shit.
Can we agree with a few points there? Japan has a -lot- of people, and can we agree that most games comes from Asia? Can we also agree that Asia mentality is very different than ours?
Now putting those things together, can we agree that the results might not be the same in the other countries? My personal opinion of the game is that PK shouldn't be forced upon the game where perma death is looming, to give both choices, as posted in my first post, it doesn't have to be done, and maybe it won't be done, but i sure as hell would be happy to play it if PvP was out of my way in this game.
i need nor expect anyone to agree with me, i was meerly commenting on its similarity to UO and stating my personal preference to sticking it out when faced with PK's.
I'm not sure how you manually access the forum, i've searched on their web site, i just can't find it.
Forum link should also be in the email you got from SOE. If not, just bookmark the above.
Olalonde, excellent thread to point him to.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Yes, i agree, this is a very good thread, i've just finished reading it, and i sincerely hope things will work out past closed beta, right now, the griefers are out in force, most likely due to the fact that they know they will get wiped either ways.
Good point. Best not to play such a game in the first place. Perma death and open PvP have no appeal what so ever to me.
I actually played UO back in the day... There was a damn good reason that Trammel came about. The ganking and griefing was totally out of control. People started leaving in droves. Way too many people (including Dev's and publishers) keep forgetting the difference between the Western and Asian markets. The modern western markets have MUCH less toleration for ganking and griefing. Games that allow (much less encourage) ganking and griefing, seriously niche themselves.
Japan is not typical of the modern western market. Neither are most other parts of Asia. Look at the success of various games in the different markets, and look at the different demographics involved.
Permadeath in this game is almost non existant though. I don't have much thrill from playing it as I do playing hc path of exile or hc diablo. Just saying you might not be missing much. =P
Ahh but the topic wasn't about perma death, it was about PvP, perma death is something that is already established before you even start to play.
Thank you for sharing this non-constructive pearl of wisdom with us.
Yes we know there are plenty of those out there, it doesn't prevent people from discussing the flaws in this game.
Yes we know there are plenty of those out there, it doesn't prevent people from discussing the flaws in this game.
But this is not a flaw, it's a deliberate design decision made by developer. From my understanding they are very direct about owPvP, PK, and permanent death, so you can make decision before even trying this game.
I don't agree with the use of QQ or name callin, but he's right. The fact is, it's a PvP game. Deal with it. Go play something else if you can't. I'm not a pker, but I don't like dull games.
I'm just so damn tired of people latching onto a game that says it's an open PvP game, only to say PvP's going to ruin the game, or ask for some PvE only server bull shit.
If you get killed once and you quit, well then you probably shouldn't be playing a hard core game. You can make threats about leaving all you want, we know you're going to be playing the game for your weekly total of half an hour. Isn't it great when casuals come and try to change a game? You know they're going to quit in 5 more play sessions anyways, if they ever get that far.
I mostly agree with you guys in regard to the fact this game is pretty open about its PvP and Permadeath situation. The fact a PvE server was even requested shows a disconnect from what the game is made for. BUT, I will say that it doesn't mean that its using a perfect system either. The by and large issue with most PvP games is disparity between players. Guild Wars is on the best end of the spectrum, being a game designed around PvP with the most sense of balance. On the other end, the bad end, we have F2P games with a high pay to win tolerance. EVE falls closer to GW...there is still great disparity in regard to players with more skill training having an advantage, but it still leaves options open to new players so that they CAN contribute in a meaninful way. Thats the real question. Does this game offer new players a way to contribute meaningfully, or are newbies simply fodder?
Because if they are just fodder, well....
The system is garbage. End of story. The game is a flop. What makes EVE a successful game with its cutthroat design is that a fresh player can quickly specialize in something that will make him useful and desirable to functioning guilds (corps). So they WANT him, and WANT to help him. He provides something to him. If a player is just fodder, it makes him unimportant to vets. They want players who can help keep them alive. Dropping everything and placing themselves in danger for someone that matters not at all to them is not exactly likely. So you have a legion of players constantly starting over and barely ever making skill progress, (to such a point that other players need and want them and care) and another group that is established and takes care of each other. There is nothing to foster further community building.
Now, at first, this causes nothing noticable. Over time, player leave. Most won't enjoy sitting at the bottom of the ladder for long. The same trend happens to FPS games. On release there is high chance of meeting players worse than you. 2 months later you feel like you are only playing the best of the best and losing a ton more. The weak links leave, which then makes better players suddenly the weakest players. Its a bleeding loss, and its not something FPS games notice as much because of how saturated the market is with them. Take Call of Duty, each year a new one comes out. That coincides nicely with the point at which the weak link bleed would have started to make the game annoying to play.
I digress, I rambled more than I needed to here. Those of you playing, could you answer my question though? Is there a meaningful way for the youngling player to contribute in this game? Or is it just a giant screwing until you luck your way to high skill levels and can finally fight back a little? One of those I'd at least try and be open minded with. The other I'll dodge like the plauge and never look back.
I would say, from my experience, that you start as not very valuable, since your character cannot go in places where the high levels would needs you to be, and you wouldn't have the survivability to go with, they could invest time in you so you can get to their levels, but that's fairly time consuming, they would rather find someone around their level in order to progress i think, unlike a FPS game, this game is level/gear/class skills based, so, there's no way a level 1 can possibly help a level 20 in their quests/monsters hunts for example, unless this level 1 is an alt of a level 20 that already unlocked those dungeons, then he can follow (I think? Would need confirmed), but it's still a level 1 with low survivability, so you would mostly just be 1 hit fodder.
This is a good point. It's not completely true in Wizardry Online's case though. You're not useful at low levels unless your a thief but you can get powered leveled or rush to a certain point VERY quickly and alot of things counter balance that feeling of being last of the ladder like max level difference for instance. At low level your useless, but you can faster become useful. For example I play warrior and my friend plays priest, and my 3rd friend (who actually started playing yesterday ) is level 1 thief or mage I think. I will not power level him for his first time but ill give him tips and run to him as soon as pks show up, wich is a good trade off compared to grouping with him and rushing him through quests considered how close dungeons are to each other. I'm hoping guild will do the same for new members. We need thief to disarm traps and open chests, wich will make a huge difference, even if hes low level. The only question is: does he want to skip content just to start playing with us faster ? There are lots of reasons to want to help someone get rid of a pk such as bounty and looting his corpse.
Theres also this NEAT soul level system wich at for example I am soul lvl 3, I can wear soul level 3 gear on all my alts ( on this soul) as well as earn a 50% bonus exp from monsters and quests, as well as having all dungeons unlocked and cleared ( with maps available). What I'm saying is making an alt is so fast and soul exp keeps going towards your main its very much worth it to help a friend this way instead of using your main.
In his mind, if the features are not designed specifically for him, then the game is flawed. He's not unique in that view. That kind of thinking is rather pervasive here. Worse, they can't let it go as not being for them, they have to 'warn' others abvout it, as well.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I keep seeing people mention "but Japan is different". Erm so what? I wasn't aware this game replete with PD and PKing was being aimed at the generic, mass Euro/US casual market audience.
Amazingly enough there are players outside of Asia who are actually interested in such systems. What the games performance in Japan demonstrates is that the mechanics are potentially viable for players actually interested in said mechanics in the first place.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."